2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by P-F1 Mod »

Laz_T800 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
P-F1 Mod wrote:
Fiki wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:OK so they still aren't even lined up and the car has been cleared.

So why on earth was it not dealt with under the VSC!
Why not just leave the car there in the first place? It's not in a dangerous place; the only thing that makes its place dangerous is retrieving it. Since there's no reason for doing that, it is simply ruining the race.
Had they left it, either Max or Seb would have hit it. So no, it was safer to remove the car. Although VSC would have been fairer.
I don't know why they can't shut the pitlane under VSC?
Then everyone who hasn't stopped gets absolutely shafted. Really bad idea.
Mikey said VSC, not SC.

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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
P-F1 Mod wrote:
Fiki wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:OK so they still aren't even lined up and the car has been cleared.

So why on earth was it not dealt with under the VSC!
Why not just leave the car there in the first place? It's not in a dangerous place; the only thing that makes its place dangerous is retrieving it. Since there's no reason for doing that, it is simply ruining the race.
Had they left it, either Max or Seb would have hit it. So no, it was safer to remove the car. Although VSC would have been fairer.
I don't know why they can't shut the pitlane under VSC?
Which I brought up 2 years ago when Hamilton lost a win because of the VSC and got short shrift.
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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

j man wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
P-F1 Mod wrote:
Fiki wrote: Why not just leave the car there in the first place? It's not in a dangerous place; the only thing that makes its place dangerous is retrieving it. Since there's no reason for doing that, it is simply ruining the race.
Had they left it, either Max or Seb would have hit it. So no, it was safer to remove the car. Although VSC would have been fairer.
I don't know why they can't shut the pitlane under VSC?
Just a yellow flag on that corner, and ahead of it, would have do it. There was nothing on the racetrack itself.
They had a recovery vehicle there carrying the Alfa away. I'm sure no one needs reminding what can happen.
Yep which is why the VSC came about in the first place because drivers couldn't be trusted to slow down enough.
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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Laz_T800 »

P-F1 Mod wrote: Mikey said VSC, not SC.
Was confused by the lack of VSC in the race.

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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

Laz_T800 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
P-F1 Mod wrote:
Fiki wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:OK so they still aren't even lined up and the car has been cleared.

So why on earth was it not dealt with under the VSC!
Why not just leave the car there in the first place? It's not in a dangerous place; the only thing that makes its place dangerous is retrieving it. Since there's no reason for doing that, it is simply ruining the race.
Had they left it, either Max or Seb would have hit it. So no, it was safer to remove the car. Although VSC would have been fairer.
I don't know why they can't shut the pitlane under VSC?
Then everyone who hasn't stopped gets absolutely shafted. Really bad idea.
Not really, all the cars run at the same pace so being on badly worn tyres isn't a problem, also there is no need to refuel anymore.
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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Option or Prime »

lucifers wrote:
kleefton wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Mercedes-Benz wrote:Bottas was unlucky. Great move to get back the position. He had Hamilton covered. SC changed the race for me sadly.

Max was really held up by Ferrari. He looked faster all the time. Once Honda can bring more power I think he will consistently beat the Ferrari's. Gasly finally driving like a RBR driver. It was excellent race. Sadly Vettel made a big mistake hitting Max. Otherwise I think it could have been even better race.
Bottas only had Hamilton covered because it's so difficult to pass, in raceable cars Hamilton would have won easily as he showed by setting fastest lap on tyres much slower than Bottas had on.
I don't think Bottas had him covered at all. With no safety car Lewis would have had a tire life advantage as well as his normal pace advantage. It's likely he would have passed him on track with those factors combined. And let's not forget that Bottas was always going to pit twice and Lewis showed he made the one stopper easily. Either way, Bottas wasn't winning this.
bottas race pace has been a question mark for me for a while now. i also believe lewis would have overtaken bottas one way or another
Not sure how you can knock Bottas' race pace or wheel to wheel racing. He lost position due to the safety car. Hamilton may have been super quick but he gave as good as he got today and had track position.

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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
P-F1 Mod wrote:
Fiki wrote: Why not just leave the car there in the first place? It's not in a dangerous place; the only thing that makes its place dangerous is retrieving it. Since there's no reason for doing that, it is simply ruining the race.
Had they left it, either Max or Seb would have hit it. So no, it was safer to remove the car. Although VSC would have been fairer.
I don't know why they can't shut the pitlane under VSC?
Just a yellow flag on that corner, and ahead of it, would have do it. There was nothing on the racetrack itself.
Well, that's what I would do too.
You never heard of Jules Bianchi?

Apparently a recovery vehicle was being used.
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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by shoot999 »

pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
P-F1 Mod wrote:
Fiki wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:OK so they still aren't even lined up and the car has been cleared.

So why on earth was it not dealt with under the VSC!
Why not just leave the car there in the first place? It's not in a dangerous place; the only thing that makes its place dangerous is retrieving it. Since there's no reason for doing that, it is simply ruining the race.
Had they left it, either Max or Seb would have hit it. So no, it was safer to remove the car. Although VSC would have been fairer.
I don't know why they can't shut the pitlane under VSC?
Which I brought up 2 years ago when Hamilton lost a win because of the VSC and got short shrift.
Yea, I remember you bringing that up. You must have put up a compelling argument as it looks like after some reflection a number of posters have changed their minds on the matter.

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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Laz_T800 »

pokerman wrote: Not really, all the cars run at the same pace so being on badly worn tyres isn't a problem, also there is no need to refuel anymore.
I missed the V part of VSC.
Not sure it would have made a difference to Hamilton and Bottas even if it had have been a VSC today.
As for the Pit lane being closed under VSC, I disagree but do believe the delta should include the pitlane to ensure the gaps are maintained.

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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Invade »

Can someone explain to me what ended up happening at McLaren which lead to Sainz' super result and Norris' mediocre result?

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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

shoot999 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
P-F1 Mod wrote:
Fiki wrote: Why not just leave the car there in the first place? It's not in a dangerous place; the only thing that makes its place dangerous is retrieving it. Since there's no reason for doing that, it is simply ruining the race.
Had they left it, either Max or Seb would have hit it. So no, it was safer to remove the car. Although VSC would have been fairer.
I don't know why they can't shut the pitlane under VSC?
Which I brought up 2 years ago when Hamilton lost a win because of the VSC and got short shrift.
Yea, I remember you bringing that up. You must have put up a compelling argument as it looks like after some reflection a number of posters have changed their minds on the matter.
Yeah It's strange how that tends to work. ;)
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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

Laz_T800 wrote:
pokerman wrote: Not really, all the cars run at the same pace so being on badly worn tyres isn't a problem, also there is no need to refuel anymore.
I missed the V part of VSC.
Not sure it would have made a difference to Hamilton and Bottas even if it had have been a VSC today.
As for the Pit lane being closed under VSC, I disagree but do believe the delta should include the pitlane to ensure the gaps are maintained.
Well it's been like his for the past 2/3 years, strange how now it's seen as being a problem?
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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

Invade wrote:Can someone explain to me what ended up happening at McLaren which lead to Sainz' super result and Norris' mediocre result?
Norris wasn't pitted under the SC and had to pit once the race had been restarted.
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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by j man »

Invade wrote:Can someone explain to me what ended up happening at McLaren which lead to Sainz' super result and Norris' mediocre result?
The Safety Car gave Sainz a free pitstop while Norris lost out because he had already stopped.

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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Lt. Drebin »

pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
P-F1 Mod wrote: Had they left it, either Max or Seb would have hit it. So no, it was safer to remove the car. Although VSC would have been fairer.
I don't know why they can't shut the pitlane under VSC?
Just a yellow flag on that corner, and ahead of it, would have do it. There was nothing on the racetrack itself.
Well, that's what I would do too.
You never heard of Jules Bianchi?

Apparently a recovery vehicle was being used.
Don't be sarcastic. Bianchi killed himself by going fast in the yellow zone, hate to say but its so, and the rain played a big role in his slide. There was no rain today, and section is pretty straightforward with breaking zone to put the speed down anyway.
The end is near

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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

Lt. Drebin wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote: I don't know why they can't shut the pitlane under VSC?
Just a yellow flag on that corner, and ahead of it, would have do it. There was nothing on the racetrack itself.
Well, that's what I would do too.
You never heard of Jules Bianchi?

Apparently a recovery vehicle was being used.
Don't be sarcastic. Bianchi killed himself by going fast in the yellow zone, hate to say but its so, and the rain played a big role in his slide. There was no rain today, and section is pretty straightforward with breaking zone to put the speed down anyway.
No what it's about is people being flippant with safety when the outcome doesn't suit what they want it to be, the rules are there because someone got killed because drivers can't be trusted to judge how fast to drive under yellow flags when a car is being recovered, were the car was situated was judged not to be safe.
Last edited by pokerman on Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Option or Prime »

Lt. Drebin wrote: Don't be sarcastic. Bianchi killed himself by going fast in the yellow zone, hate to say but its so, and the rain played a big role in his slide. There was no rain today, and section is pretty straightforward with breaking zone to put the speed down anyway.
That is bordering offensive!

He didn't kill himself, the accident was avoidable. The sport took action to ensure it never happened again.

The result was the decision today. You don't sacrifice safety simply because it upsets your view of the race.

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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by JN23 »

Really enjoyed the race today.

Great battle between the two Mercs in the first stint. I personally think Hamilton would have got by Bottas at some point as I felt he had a decent advantage on race pace. I was however impressed with Bottas' fight when Hamilton got passed.

Loved the battle between Leclerc and Verstappen, as many have said, definitely the future of the sport along with a few others. I think Leclerc will have learnt a lot from what happened in Austria and it showed a bit today.

A positive weekend for Gasly who can be fairly happy with himself.

Vettel: d'oh. Leclerc is now only 3 points behind him in the standings.

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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

mikeyg123 wrote:
P-F1 Mod wrote:
Fiki wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:OK so they still aren't even lined up and the car has been cleared.

So why on earth was it not dealt with under the VSC!
Why not just leave the car there in the first place? It's not in a dangerous place; the only thing that makes its place dangerous is retrieving it. Since there's no reason for doing that, it is simply ruining the race.
Had they left it, either Max or Seb would have hit it. So no, it was safer to remove the car. Although VSC would have been fairer.
I don't know why they can't shut the pitlane under VSC?
I totally agree. The only stipulation is for a retirement or to replace a punctured tyre. It would not be hard for a steward to appear at a pit lane and remove a wheel to check that it's genuinely punctured if a team claimed it was.
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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

They simply need to instigate WEC style slow zones. Lewis may still have managed to get ahead, but it would have been far closer and much more fair.
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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by bourbon19 »

Vettel apologized. I suppose that means he retracted the hand gesture and took the blame. That makes me feel better about the outcome.

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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

Was a good race, not sure how the Leclerc/Verstappen battle came across on TV but at the circuit it looked absolutely epic, brilliant racing and fortunately some sensible stewardship.

Shame about the safety car timing, would have been a good battle towards the end with Hamilton on fresher tyres, ultimately I doubt Bottas would have won anyway but it robbed us of a good show between the Mercedes pair.

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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote: You never heard of Jules Bianchi?

Apparently a recovery vehicle was being used.
No I've never heard of him.

Don't be so bloody facetious.

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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

Asphalt_World wrote:They simply need to instigate WEC style slow zones. Lewis may still have managed to get ahead, but it would have been far closer and much more fair.
Again why was this not a problem in Australia 2017?
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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:They simply need to instigate WEC style slow zones. Lewis may still have managed to get ahead, but it would have been far closer and much more fair.
Again why was this not a problem in Australia 2017?
Who said it wasn't?

I think it hurts a lot more today because he robbed us of two incredibly exciting on track battles. Something we have been somewhat starved for.

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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

pokerman wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:They simply need to instigate WEC style slow zones. Lewis may still have managed to get ahead, but it would have been far closer and much more fair.
Again why was this not a problem in Australia 2017?
Have I mentioned Australia 2017?
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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by FormulaFun »

Hahahaha so much butthurt...

Suddenly everyone outraged about safety car rules like they are brand new.

Safety car was 100% legitimate if you disagree that a fricking tractor in a run off of a heavy braking zone isn't a safety car then you are either deluded or just straight up mad

Regardless Hamilton would have won on a 1 stop strat, no problem

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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Option or Prime »

FormulaFun wrote:Hahahaha so much butthurt...

Suddenly everyone outraged about safety car rules like they are brand new.

Safety car was 100% legitimate if you disagree that a fricking tractor in a run off of a heavy braking zone isn't a safety car then you are either deluded or just straight up mad

Regardless Hamilton would have won on a 1 stop strat, no problem
+1

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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by sandman1347 »

That was a great race! Lots of battles throughout but it was quite difficult to make a move stick. I don't actually mind this kind of race and I don't think you need 1000 overtakes to make a race exciting.

Great job by Lewis. Him and that Mercedes were the top package without question and for anyone suggesting that Valteri would have won the race without the safety car; you're kidding yourself. Valteri had to pit way too early and having come back out onto another set of Mediums, he was always going to have to stop again. He was also not going any faster on his new mediums than Hamilton was on his old mediums prior to the safety car period. In fact, the safety car made Hamilton stop earlier than he would have otherwise and he was always going to make just the one stop for Hards. Logging the fastest lap on 30 lap old hard tires stamped home his authority on the day. I do think that Valteri had another solid race and did very well to keep Lewis behind him in the first stint. He's having a solid year and he should keep his seat IMO.

Now let's get to the real fireworks; Red Bull vs. Ferrari! What a battle with all 4 drivers from these two teams in the mix. For me, Charles was man of the match. He fought brilliantly and he sent Max a message after their battle in Austria. That message was, "if you think you're going to push me around, you have another thing coming". It was great to see him attack Max out of the pits and take back that position that the team lost him. Very aggressive and gave Max a taste of his own medicine there.

Max, for me, was brilliant as well. I think he had the most pace in the race of anyone outside of the Mercedes duo. He was just constantly in traffic and was fighting almost from lights to flag. It was a scintillating performance where he both gave and received. The move on Vettel was excellent and I do think Sebastian got it wrong there. That was unfortunate for Max but it was perhaps justice for Charles who had gotten very unlucky with the safety car.

Vettel really has me concerned. He just makes so many mistakes! There can be no sugar-coating it anymore. The guys is extremely error-prone and he bottled it again today. Perhaps a change of scenery would be best for him after all. It's starting to look almost inevitable that Ferrari will slowly become Charles's team.

McLaren continue to be best of the rest with Daniel also in the mix. Unlucky for Norris today but he has been brilliant and, for me, Albon has now firmly gained the upper-hand over Kvyat.

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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Lt. Drebin »

Option or Prime wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote: Don't be sarcastic. Bianchi killed himself by going fast in the yellow zone, hate to say but its so, and the rain played a big role in his slide. There was no rain today, and section is pretty straightforward with breaking zone to put the speed down anyway.
That is bordering offensive!

He didn't kill himself, the accident was avoidable. The sport took action to ensure it never happened again.

The result was the decision today. You don't sacrifice safety simply because it upsets your view of the race.
The investigation was very clear that there was no other factor involved in the loosing of the car except for Bianchi driving too fast in the rain soaked curve under the yellow flag, for which he spun and hit the tractor and got fatal injuries. You are right that the accident was avoidable, but only if Bianchi drove slower under the yellow. What is offensive in this interpretation of the official investigation, really? No one hit him, he did not kept the yellow flag rule, and he lost it. All happened by his own fault.
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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

Option or Prime wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:Hahahaha so much butthurt...

Suddenly everyone outraged about safety car rules like they are brand new.

Safety car was 100% legitimate if you disagree that a fricking tractor in a run off of a heavy braking zone isn't a safety car then you are either deluded or just straight up mad

Regardless Hamilton would have won on a 1 stop strat, no problem
+1
Well no.

The Alfa was cleared before the cars had even finished forming up behind the safety car proving that a VSC would have done the job perfectly well.

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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

I'll keep banging this drum, but if they added Slow Zones to F1, you'd have no bunching up behind safety cars, no time when cars are still going too fast in yellow areas because they're trying to get on the safety car train, a much much smaller advantage when pitting during a Slow Zone period and racing around the rest of the circuit whilst the problem is removed in safety elsewhere. It's win win win.
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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Mort Canard »

Badgeronimous wrote:Poor old Bottas.

Had a win pick pocketed from him there.
:thumbup: :nod:
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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Mort Canard »

UnlikeUday wrote:
mcdo wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:One of the best races in a long time.
Austria was only 2 weeks ago. That was way better than this
The intrigue in this race was far higher as after a long time, we witnessed 2 pit stops across all the drivers. There was pure racing throughout the field.
Agreed! :thumbup: :nod:
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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Flash2k11 »

Lt. Drebin wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote: Don't be sarcastic. Bianchi killed himself by going fast in the yellow zone, hate to say but its so, and the rain played a big role in his slide. There was no rain today, and section is pretty straightforward with breaking zone to put the speed down anyway.
That is bordering offensive!

He didn't kill himself, the accident was avoidable. The sport took action to ensure it never happened again.

The result was the decision today. You don't sacrifice safety simply because it upsets your view of the race.
The investigation was very clear that there was no other factor involved in the loosing of the car except for Bianchi driving too fast in the rain soaked curve under the yellow flag, for which he spun and hit the tractor and got fatal injuries. You are right that the accident was avoidable, but only if Bianchi drove slower under the yellow. What is offensive in this interpretation of the official investigation, really? No one hit him, he did not kept the yellow flag rule, and he lost it. All happened by his own fault.
And he would still be around to tell the tale about it if the race was completely neutralised while there was heavy machinery on track. As such, whenever there is machinery on the course, it's a safety car these days. Wether or not the crane should have been on the track to reclaim Giovanazzi's car is another debate, but leaving it there is inviting someone else to make the same mistake, except instead of just (best case) beaching it in the gravel, go hurtling into a stricken car (potentially straight on at speed, as gravel doesn't slow you if you go straight on) potentially causing an entirely avoidable addition to any incident.

I'm not madly in love with the idea of VSC/SC for every little thing, but safety is king these days.
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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by shoot999 »

Asphalt_World wrote:I'll keep banging this drum, but if they added Slow Zones to F1, you'd have no bunching up behind safety cars, no time when cars are still going too fast in yellow areas because they're trying to get on the safety car train, a much much smaller advantage when pitting during a Slow Zone period and racing around the rest of the circuit whilst the problem is removed in safety elsewhere. It's win win win.
So out of interest how long you been banging this particular drum?

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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

shoot999 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:I'll keep banging this drum, but if they added Slow Zones to F1, you'd have no bunching up behind safety cars, no time when cars are still going too fast in yellow areas because they're trying to get on the safety car train, a much much smaller advantage when pitting during a Slow Zone period and racing around the rest of the circuit whilst the problem is removed in safety elsewhere. It's win win win.
So out of interest how long you been banging this particular drum?
Since it was introduced in the WEC.
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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Flash2k11 »

Asphalt_World wrote:
shoot999 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:I'll keep banging this drum, but if they added Slow Zones to F1, you'd have no bunching up behind safety cars, no time when cars are still going too fast in yellow areas because they're trying to get on the safety car train, a much much smaller advantage when pitting during a Slow Zone period and racing around the rest of the circuit whilst the problem is removed in safety elsewhere. It's win win win.
So out of interest how long you been banging this particular drum?
Since it was introduced in the WEC.
Isn't the VSC effectively a full course 'Slow Zone' though? Admittedly it doesnt have the drawback of people being on a faster part of the track when it hits, but with the VSC you are guaranteed that no one is pushing the envelope on the way in and out of any slow zone.
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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

Flash2k11 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
shoot999 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:I'll keep banging this drum, but if they added Slow Zones to F1, you'd have no bunching up behind safety cars, no time when cars are still going too fast in yellow areas because they're trying to get on the safety car train, a much much smaller advantage when pitting during a Slow Zone period and racing around the rest of the circuit whilst the problem is removed in safety elsewhere. It's win win win.
So out of interest how long you been banging this particular drum?
Since it was introduced in the WEC.
Isn't the VSC effectively a full course 'Slow Zone' though? Admittedly it doesnt have the drawback of people being on a faster part of the track when it hits, but with the VSC you are guaranteed that no one is pushing the envelope on the way in and out of any slow zone.
Yes, it is like the VSC, but the circuit is split into lots of sections and they only need to go slow through the one where the problem is. This keeps the racing going for the rest of the lap and dramatically reduces any advantage of pitting during this time.

I mean, if Le Mans drivers can travel at 200 plus mph night and day and slow for the correct zone as required, I'm sure it would be incredibly easy to introduce in F1.
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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Clarky »

Hamilton was going to win this race even without the safety car imo.

He was so much faster.

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