How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPLIT)

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JN23
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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by JN23 »

I think Verstappen has more chance of winning the WDC than Bottas. The gap seems to have closed a bit between the top three with Merc still having the advantage so I think we'll see Verstappen finishing ahead of Bottas a fair bit between now and the end of the season.

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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by sandman1347 »

KingVoid wrote:After today, is there still anyone who will defend the notion that Hamilton has been better than Verstappen this season?
Because the last race is the only thing that matters right?

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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by Jezza13 »

KingVoid wrote:After today, is there still anyone who will defend the notion that Hamilton has been better than Verstappen this season?
Yup.
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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

KingVoid wrote:After today, is there still anyone who will defend the notion that Hamilton has been better than Verstappen this season?
After todays this is no argument that Verstappen is currently the form driver of the season given that going into it him and Hamilton were the two form drivers of the season and coming out of it Hamilton has had his worst drive during the hybrid era.

However, it would be foolish to read too much into just one race, especially one that was such a lottery. It's the first wet weather race in 5 years that wasn't won by Hamilton, and both Max and Lewis spun in the stadium section when on slick tyres - and it was only luck that Max didn't hit anything. Had Max taken his front wing off and had a minute in the pits and Hamilton been the one that did a 360 and kept going, Hamilton would have taken a comfortable victory with Max far down the field and we'd be having the exact opposite conversation.

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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

sandman1347 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:After today, is there still anyone who will defend the notion that Hamilton has been better than Verstappen this season?
Because the last race is the only thing that matters right?
Well I made a statement recently on how I though it was still clear that Hamilton had been doing better this season. Now that Hamilton has had Austria and this go by, I really can't say that he's done better than Verstappen. 5th was poor enough in Austria, but his race today after his early stint was shockingly bad. Verstappen may have taken some risks that could have resulted badly, but I think it is pretty obvious now that he's had a better season than Hamilton. And yes, it is pretty much this race that makes me think this.

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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by shoot999 »

KingVoid wrote:After today, is there still anyone who will defend the notion that Hamilton has been better than Verstappen this season?
Ive not thought of that, but its quite obvious that no one can now defend the notion that Max is better than Seb. Max spun; Seb didn't. Case closed. End of.

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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

shoot999 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:After today, is there still anyone who will defend the notion that Hamilton has been better than Verstappen this season?
Ive not thought of that, but its quite obvious that no one can now defend the notion that Max is better than Seb. Max spun; Seb didn't. Case closed. End of.
Based on today's race clearly Bernd Maylander is the best driver in F1. He's the only multiple lap leader from the race who didn't lose control of his car.

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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by KingVoid »

The amount of deflection to my question on this last page is incredible. :lol:

Hamilton has had two terrible races this season. Verstappen hasn’t had a single one. How can anyone claim that Hamilton has been better?

That’s like claiming that Hill was better than Schumacher in 1996. Not as extreme but the same logic.

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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by Johnson »

Kind of arguing with yourself? I don’t see anybody disagreeing. However it’s been close enough that if you switch there races today, Hamilton would probably be on top over the season.

Verstappen is having a great season, but it won’t take any gloss off Hamilton winning a 6th WDC (unless Hamilton falls apart). He was sick and had a bad day, no doubt he will bounce back.

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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by Exediron »

Johnson wrote:He was sick and had a bad day, no doubt he will bounce back.
Yeah, I do think the fact that he was apparently sick enough that they considered withdrawing him from the race should be considered. He did okay when it was easy, but you have to figure that would have some effect when concentration needs to be 100%.
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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by Good_Year »

Also 20 laps into the race

From planetf1 live commentary
Hamilton six seconds clear of Bottas, who is just over a second ahead of Verstappen.
You cannot use this race as Proof that Vestappen is faster, in my humble opinion.
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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by Exediron »

Good_Year wrote:Also 20 laps into the race

From planetf1 live commentary
Hamilton six seconds clear of Bottas, who is just over a second ahead of Verstappen.
You cannot use this race as Proof that Vestappen is faster, in my humble opinion.
No, but you can't use it for the opposite, either. We know Hamilton is faster than Bottas in the wet, and Max was stuck behind Bottas. There wasn't really ever a situation where Max and Lewis were racing directly against each other.
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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by pokerman »

Exediron wrote:
Good_Year wrote:Also 20 laps into the race

From planetf1 live commentary
Hamilton six seconds clear of Bottas, who is just over a second ahead of Verstappen.
You cannot use this race as Proof that Vestappen is faster, in my humble opinion.
No, but you can't use it for the opposite, either. We know Hamilton is faster than Bottas in the wet, and Max was stuck behind Bottas. There wasn't really ever a situation where Max and Lewis were racing directly against each other.
Yeah it's strange but they never actually raced against one another, Verstappen got held up early on after his bad start, then later on Mercedes put Hamilton on the wrong tyres and it didn't end there, they continued to strategise him out of the race.
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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by LBET »

pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Good_Year wrote:Also 20 laps into the race

From planetf1 live commentary
Hamilton six seconds clear of Bottas, who is just over a second ahead of Verstappen.
You cannot use this race as Proof that Vestappen is faster, in my humble opinion.
No, but you can't use it for the opposite, either. We know Hamilton is faster than Bottas in the wet, and Max was stuck behind Bottas. There wasn't really ever a situation where Max and Lewis were racing directly against each other.
Yeah it's strange but they never actually raced against one another, Verstappen got held up early on after his bad start, then later on Mercedes put Hamilton on the wrong tyres and it didn't end there, they continued to strategise him out of the race.
Yup, today was supposed to be that day. Certainly they are both somewhat ruthless drivers but, in the same car, in qually mode would be down about a 10th.

BTW, I define ruthless as acting without compassion or mercy for others.

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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by Filip »

Exediron wrote:
Good_Year wrote:Also 20 laps into the race

From planetf1 live commentary
Hamilton six seconds clear of Bottas, who is just over a second ahead of Verstappen.
You cannot use this race as Proof that Vestappen is faster, in my humble opinion.
No, but you can't use it for the opposite, either. We know Hamilton is faster than Bottas in the wet, and Max was stuck behind Bottas. There wasn't really ever a situation where Max and Lewis were racing directly against each other.
You realize Merc is a faster package then Redbull right ?

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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by Filip »

The level of Verstappen shine is unreal. I watch F1 from 2002, and never seen such young driver. He literally alone opposes hybrid era titans. If i were his fan or no, does not matter, without Max on grid i doubt watching F1.

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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by FormulaFun »

KingVoid wrote:The amount of deflection to my question on this last page is incredible. :lol:

Hamilton has had two terrible races this season. Verstappen hasn’t had a single one. How can anyone claim that Hamilton has been better?

That’s like claiming that Hill was better than Schumacher in 1996. Not as extreme but the same logic.
Lol dude nobody has even debated against you that Verstappen isn't having a good season, what people are debating you on is that you're pushing your opinion as a matter of fact that Verstappen is faster and a generally a better driver than Hamilton on the basis of 10 races in which he has no performance comparator because Gasly is terrible.

This race went to Verstappen but you're forgetting that he also did a 360 and was fortunate to land it, I would now agree that after this race I'd say Verstappen has the slight edge (pre-germany it was Hamilton) in form, but this race did nothing to support Verstappen as being "faster" or as a whole "better" driver since he basically just happened into first place because of Merc stupidity with strat, and weather changes, equally just as Vettel finished 2nd after running at midfield pace all race and stroll/kvyat ending the race 3rd and 4th after 20 laps earlier being almost last

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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by Pullrod »

FormulaFun wrote:
KingVoid wrote:The amount of deflection to my question on this last page is incredible. :lol:

Hamilton has had two terrible races this season. Verstappen hasn’t had a single one. How can anyone claim that Hamilton has been better?

That’s like claiming that Hill was better than Schumacher in 1996. Not as extreme but the same logic.
Lol dude nobody has even debated against you that Verstappen isn't having a good season, what people are debating you on is that you're pushing your opinion as a matter of fact that Verstappen is faster and a generally a better driver than Hamilton on the basis of 10 races in which he has no performance comparator because Gasly is terrible.

This race went to Verstappen but you're forgetting that he also did a 360 and was fortunate to land it, I would now agree that after this race I'd say Verstappen has the slight edge (pre-germany it was Hamilton) in form, but this race did nothing to support Verstappen as being "faster" or as a whole "better" driver since he basically just happened into first place because of Merc stupidity with strat, and weather changes, equally just as Vettel finished 2nd after running at midfield pace all race and stroll/kvyat ending the race 3rd and 4th after 20 laps earlier being almost last
Definitely.
Gasly only purpose now is to flatter Verstappen. Granted he has his problems but it doesn't look like the team care and just focus on Verstappen.
Sainz Jr. has now almost the same points of Gasly and he is driving a McLaren !!!

Pierre could easily be the worst driver of the grid(at least this year). And no, the RB is not a slow car.

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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by pokerman »

LBET wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Good_Year wrote:Also 20 laps into the race

From planetf1 live commentary
Hamilton six seconds clear of Bottas, who is just over a second ahead of Verstappen.
You cannot use this race as Proof that Vestappen is faster, in my humble opinion.
No, but you can't use it for the opposite, either. We know Hamilton is faster than Bottas in the wet, and Max was stuck behind Bottas. There wasn't really ever a situation where Max and Lewis were racing directly against each other.
Yeah it's strange but they never actually raced against one another, Verstappen got held up early on after his bad start, then later on Mercedes put Hamilton on the wrong tyres and it didn't end there, they continued to strategise him out of the race.
Yup, today was supposed to be that day. Certainly they are both somewhat ruthless drivers but, in the same car, in qually mode would be down about a 10th.

BTW, I define ruthless as acting without compassion or mercy for others.
In that case I wouldn't class Hamilton as being a ruthless driver, Verstappen clearly is.
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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by pokerman »

Filip wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Good_Year wrote:Also 20 laps into the race

From planetf1 live commentary
Hamilton six seconds clear of Bottas, who is just over a second ahead of Verstappen.
You cannot use this race as Proof that Vestappen is faster, in my humble opinion.
No, but you can't use it for the opposite, either. We know Hamilton is faster than Bottas in the wet, and Max was stuck behind Bottas. There wasn't really ever a situation where Max and Lewis were racing directly against each other.
You realize Merc is a faster package then Redbull right ?
Win, win for Verstappen then, he can never be seen as being slower than Hamilton in the wet, only faster if he happens to beat Hamilton when not cobbled by his own team.
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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
LBET wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Good_Year wrote:Also 20 laps into the race

From planetf1 live commentary



You cannot use this race as Proof that Vestappen is faster, in my humble opinion.
No, but you can't use it for the opposite, either. We know Hamilton is faster than Bottas in the wet, and Max was stuck behind Bottas. There wasn't really ever a situation where Max and Lewis were racing directly against each other.
Yeah it's strange but they never actually raced against one another, Verstappen got held up early on after his bad start, then later on Mercedes put Hamilton on the wrong tyres and it didn't end there, they continued to strategise him out of the race.
Yup, today was supposed to be that day. Certainly they are both somewhat ruthless drivers but, in the same car, in qually mode would be down about a 10th.

BTW, I define ruthless as acting without compassion or mercy for others.
In that case I wouldn't class Hamilton as being a ruthless driver, Verstappen clearly is.
I think in some ways you could he is. He'll do what he can to benefit himself (Abu Dhabi 2014 was very ruthless). He's just learnt that being risk averse is the best strategy to win a championship.

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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
LBET wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote: No, but you can't use it for the opposite, either. We know Hamilton is faster than Bottas in the wet, and Max was stuck behind Bottas. There wasn't really ever a situation where Max and Lewis were racing directly against each other.
Yeah it's strange but they never actually raced against one another, Verstappen got held up early on after his bad start, then later on Mercedes put Hamilton on the wrong tyres and it didn't end there, they continued to strategise him out of the race.
Yup, today was supposed to be that day. Certainly they are both somewhat ruthless drivers but, in the same car, in qually mode would be down about a 10th.

BTW, I define ruthless as acting without compassion or mercy for others.
In that case I wouldn't class Hamilton as being a ruthless driver, Verstappen clearly is.
I think in some ways you could he is. He'll do what he can to benefit himself (Abu Dhabi 2014 was very ruthless). He's just learnt that being risk averse is the best strategy to win a championship.
You lost me with Abu Dhabi 2014, also I'm comparing with how they drive presently.
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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by KingVoid »

I think that Mikey meant Abu Dhabi 2016

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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by shoot999 »

If Max is the best driver on the grid and Mercedes has the best car Max must be about to sign for them for next season. He wouldn't throw away a cert WDC by staying where he is would he?

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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
LBET wrote:
pokerman wrote: Yeah it's strange but they never actually raced against one another, Verstappen got held up early on after his bad start, then later on Mercedes put Hamilton on the wrong tyres and it didn't end there, they continued to strategise him out of the race.
Yup, today was supposed to be that day. Certainly they are both somewhat ruthless drivers but, in the same car, in qually mode would be down about a 10th.

BTW, I define ruthless as acting without compassion or mercy for others.
In that case I wouldn't class Hamilton as being a ruthless driver, Verstappen clearly is.
I think in some ways you could he is. He'll do what he can to benefit himself (Abu Dhabi 2014 was very ruthless). He's just learnt that being risk averse is the best strategy to win a championship.
You lost me with Abu Dhabi 2014, also I'm comparing with how they drive presently.
Apologies. I meant Abu Dhabi 2016.

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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by KingVoid »

shoot999 wrote:If Max is the best driver on the grid and Mercedes has the best car Max must be about to sign for them for next season. He wouldn't throw away a cert WDC by staying where he is would he?
If Hamilton is better than Vettel then why didn’t he just sign for Red Bull when Vettel was winning everything?

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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by FormulaFun »

mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
LBET wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote: No, but you can't use it for the opposite, either. We know Hamilton is faster than Bottas in the wet, and Max was stuck behind Bottas. There wasn't really ever a situation where Max and Lewis were racing directly against each other.
Yeah it's strange but they never actually raced against one another, Verstappen got held up early on after his bad start, then later on Mercedes put Hamilton on the wrong tyres and it didn't end there, they continued to strategise him out of the race.
Yup, today was supposed to be that day. Certainly they are both somewhat ruthless drivers but, in the same car, in qually mode would be down about a 10th.

BTW, I define ruthless as acting without compassion or mercy for others.
In that case I wouldn't class Hamilton as being a ruthless driver, Verstappen clearly is.
I think in some ways you could he is. He'll do what he can to benefit himself (Abu Dhabi 2014 was very ruthless). He's just learnt that being risk averse is the best strategy to win a championship.
Agreed, Hamilton used to be very ruthless and often it led to unnecessary collisions, now he does it in a much more controlled way. Most drivers go through the same transition thanks to experience, maturity, and security of their place in the sport

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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by FormulaFun »

KingVoid wrote:
shoot999 wrote:If Max is the best driver on the grid and Mercedes has the best car Max must be about to sign for them for next season. He wouldn't throw away a cert WDC by staying where he is would he?
If Hamilton is better than Vettel then why didn’t he just sign for Red Bull when Vettel was winning everything?
I mean there was a lot of rumour that Hamilton and Alonso were trying to get into red bull but they didn't want to rock the boat since they were basically dominating the sport , rumour has it Verstappen turned down opportunities to join mercedes alongside Hamilton.

Not that I blame him really, it's a sensible choice.

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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

shoot999 wrote:If Max is the best driver on the grid and Mercedes has the best car Max must be about to sign for them for next season. He wouldn't throw away a cert WDC by staying where he is would he?
I doubt Mercedes would sign Verstappen while they've got Hamilton personally, unless they felt Hamilton was coming close to leaving.

Also from Max's point of view, with a big regulation change coming up after next year theres no guarantees signing for Mercedes is the best decision right now anyway.

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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by shoot999 »

KingVoid wrote:
shoot999 wrote:If Max is the best driver on the grid and Mercedes has the best car Max must be about to sign for them for next season. He wouldn't throw away a cert WDC by staying where he is would he?
If Hamilton is better than Vettel then why didn’t he just sign for Red Bull when Vettel was winning everything?
He tried to. Vettel and Horner supposedly OKed it, but the boss decided to stay loyal to Webber. Obviously there are different versions but the bottom line is Hamilton/Vettel had no problem racing against each other. So thanks for reminding us that Ham and Seb had no problem going up against each other in the same team. I'm sure you would like to see Max alongside Ham at Mercedes; as a lot of us would. And as you have pointed out, history is on our side. :)

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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by mcdo »

I think Verstappen would take anyone in the same car now. He's the star of the show this year and he's only getting better
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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by KingVoid »

Pullrod wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
KingVoid wrote:The amount of deflection to my question on this last page is incredible. :lol:

Hamilton has had two terrible races this season. Verstappen hasn’t had a single one. How can anyone claim that Hamilton has been better?

That’s like claiming that Hill was better than Schumacher in 1996. Not as extreme but the same logic.
Lol dude nobody has even debated against you that Verstappen isn't having a good season, what people are debating you on is that you're pushing your opinion as a matter of fact that Verstappen is faster and a generally a better driver than Hamilton on the basis of 10 races in which he has no performance comparator because Gasly is terrible.

This race went to Verstappen but you're forgetting that he also did a 360 and was fortunate to land it, I would now agree that after this race I'd say Verstappen has the slight edge (pre-germany it was Hamilton) in form, but this race did nothing to support Verstappen as being "faster" or as a whole "better" driver since he basically just happened into first place because of Merc stupidity with strat, and weather changes, equally just as Vettel finished 2nd after running at midfield pace all race and stroll/kvyat ending the race 3rd and 4th after 20 laps earlier being almost last
Definitely.
Gasly only purpose now is to flatter Verstappen. Granted he has his problems but it doesn't look like the team care and just focus on Verstappen.
Sainz Jr. has now almost the same points of Gasly and he is driving a McLaren !!!

Pierre could easily be the worst driver of the grid(at least this year). And no, the RB is not a slow car.
Gasly is an average driver but not a bad driver. Verstappen is so amazing that he’s making Gasly look bad, like Schumacher used to do with Irvine.

Personally I don’t rate Bottas that highly either. His race performances against an old Massa were very meh. Massa was regularly the quicker driver on Sunday.

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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by Pullrod »

KingVoid wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
KingVoid wrote:The amount of deflection to my question on this last page is incredible. :lol:

Hamilton has had two terrible races this season. Verstappen hasn’t had a single one. How can anyone claim that Hamilton has been better?

That’s like claiming that Hill was better than Schumacher in 1996. Not as extreme but the same logic.
Lol dude nobody has even debated against you that Verstappen isn't having a good season, what people are debating you on is that you're pushing your opinion as a matter of fact that Verstappen is faster and a generally a better driver than Hamilton on the basis of 10 races in which he has no performance comparator because Gasly is terrible.

This race went to Verstappen but you're forgetting that he also did a 360 and was fortunate to land it, I would now agree that after this race I'd say Verstappen has the slight edge (pre-germany it was Hamilton) in form, but this race did nothing to support Verstappen as being "faster" or as a whole "better" driver since he basically just happened into first place because of Merc stupidity with strat, and weather changes, equally just as Vettel finished 2nd after running at midfield pace all race and stroll/kvyat ending the race 3rd and 4th after 20 laps earlier being almost last
Definitely.
Gasly only purpose now is to flatter Verstappen. Granted he has his problems but it doesn't look like the team care and just focus on Verstappen.
Sainz Jr. has now almost the same points of Gasly and he is driving a McLaren !!!

Pierre could easily be the worst driver of the grid(at least this year). And no, the RB is not a slow car.
Gasly is an average driver but not a bad driver. Verstappen is so amazing that he’s making Gasly look bad, like Schumacher used to do with Irvine.

Personally I don’t rate Bottas that highly either. His race performances against an old Massa were very meh. Massa was regularly the quicker driver on Sunday.
Oh please be serious..
Gasly was could not overtake Raikkonen and was braking 20m earlier than any driver in the Top 10 in Austria where RB was effectively the best car.

The idea RB is a bad car is only because of Gasly performances and his gap to Verstappen which is simply not acceptable at this level.

I can not think of a worse driver this season and it has nothing to do with Verstappen. The guy can not brake, can not accelerate and is right now flattering Verstappen who doesn't make mistakes because his teammate is simply too slow to even challenge him in qualifying or too far behind him to capitalize in the race if he was to make a mistake.

Take Austria for example, with a capable driver in the #2 RB car, Verstappen would not have won. This is how bad it is.

Yeah you don't rate Bottas because he could not beat Hamilton but unlike Gasly he can put laps in qualifying and actually win races.
Last edited by Pullrod on Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

FormulaFun
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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by FormulaFun »

KingVoid wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
KingVoid wrote:The amount of deflection to my question on this last page is incredible. :lol:

Hamilton has had two terrible races this season. Verstappen hasn’t had a single one. How can anyone claim that Hamilton has been better?

That’s like claiming that Hill was better than Schumacher in 1996. Not as extreme but the same logic.
Lol dude nobody has even debated against you that Verstappen isn't having a good season, what people are debating you on is that you're pushing your opinion as a matter of fact that Verstappen is faster and a generally a better driver than Hamilton on the basis of 10 races in which he has no performance comparator because Gasly is terrible.

This race went to Verstappen but you're forgetting that he also did a 360 and was fortunate to land it, I would now agree that after this race I'd say Verstappen has the slight edge (pre-germany it was Hamilton) in form, but this race did nothing to support Verstappen as being "faster" or as a whole "better" driver since he basically just happened into first place because of Merc stupidity with strat, and weather changes, equally just as Vettel finished 2nd after running at midfield pace all race and stroll/kvyat ending the race 3rd and 4th after 20 laps earlier being almost last
Definitely.
Gasly only purpose now is to flatter Verstappen. Granted he has his problems but it doesn't look like the team care and just focus on Verstappen.
Sainz Jr. has now almost the same points of Gasly and he is driving a McLaren !!!

Pierre could easily be the worst driver of the grid(at least this year). And no, the RB is not a slow car.
Gasly is an average driver but not a bad driver. Verstappen is so amazing that he’s making Gasly look bad, like Schumacher used to do with Irvine.

Personally I don’t rate Bottas that highly either. His race performances against an old Massa were very meh. Massa was regularly the quicker driver on Sunday.
Yeah sure, would agree bottas has never shown that much in a race scenario, and Hamilton has completely destroyed him in race performances, bottas was strong in quali.

I can't believe you're actually rating gasly as an average driver... He's terrible this year, whether it's the car, the tyres, whatever it is that he can't get used to is not relevant, what is relevant is that his performances have been terrible. So terrible he's probably gonna get replaced because of bad performances before the year is over, he's battling the midfield in 2nd/3rd best car and in hockenheim he was legitimately running in last place.

You're actually trying to put gasly on a pedestal to compliment Verstappen? Really now? This is getting out of hand. Gasly has been pretty much the worst driver on the grid this season

I also note you're essentially alluding to Bottas being on par with gasly for performance, in which case you are also arguing that Riccardo and Sainz are also better than Hamilton given theyre only about a tenth slower than verstappen

KingVoid
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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by KingVoid »

Gasly won the GP2 title at the age of 20. Last season people were praising Gasly after his performances in Bahrain and Hungary. This idea that he’s now somehow the worst driver on the grid is complete nonsense. Therefore the argument that Gasly is bad and therefore we can’t rate Verstappen is BS.

Also, Gasly is not as good as Bottas. I never said he was.

Pullrod
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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by Pullrod »

KingVoid wrote:Gasly won the GP2 title at the age of 20. Last season people were praising Gasly after his performances in Bahrain and Hungary. This idea that he’s now somehow the worst driver on the grid is complete nonsense. Therefore the argument that Gasly is bad and therefore we can’t rate Verstappen is BS.

Also, Gasly is not as good as Bottas. I never said he was.
So do you think the actual gap is a good picture of their respective talent?
I watch the races with live timing and guess what? everybody is overtaking left and right bar Gasly.

There is something seriously wrong on his side or in his head. Much like Vandoorne.

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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by mcdo »

Pullrod wrote:
KingVoid wrote:Gasly won the GP2 title at the age of 20. Last season people were praising Gasly after his performances in Bahrain and Hungary. This idea that he’s now somehow the worst driver on the grid is complete nonsense. Therefore the argument that Gasly is bad and therefore we can’t rate Verstappen is BS.

Also, Gasly is not as good as Bottas. I never said he was.
So do you think the actual gap is a good picture of their respective talent?
I watch the races with live timing and guess what? everybody is overtaking left and right bar Gasly.

There is something seriously wrong on his side or in his head. Much like Vandoorne.
Q. What do Gasly and Vandoorne have in common?
A. A top tier driver as a teammate making their lives hell
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Pullrod
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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by Pullrod »

mcdo wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
KingVoid wrote:Gasly won the GP2 title at the age of 20. Last season people were praising Gasly after his performances in Bahrain and Hungary. This idea that he’s now somehow the worst driver on the grid is complete nonsense. Therefore the argument that Gasly is bad and therefore we can’t rate Verstappen is BS.

Also, Gasly is not as good as Bottas. I never said he was.
So do you think the actual gap is a good picture of their respective talent?
I watch the races with live timing and guess what? everybody is overtaking left and right bar Gasly.

There is something seriously wrong on his side or in his head. Much like Vandoorne.
Q. What do Gasly and Vandoorne have in common?
A. A top tier driver as a teammate making their lives hell
Making their top driver teammates look like they are doing miracles week in week out because the car is undriveable to them or they have psychological issues.

McLaren was slow and the RB is slow too.. the narrative is there for a reason.

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mcdo
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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by mcdo »

Pullrod wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
KingVoid wrote:Gasly won the GP2 title at the age of 20. Last season people were praising Gasly after his performances in Bahrain and Hungary. This idea that he’s now somehow the worst driver on the grid is complete nonsense. Therefore the argument that Gasly is bad and therefore we can’t rate Verstappen is BS.

Also, Gasly is not as good as Bottas. I never said he was.
So do you think the actual gap is a good picture of their respective talent?
I watch the races with live timing and guess what? everybody is overtaking left and right bar Gasly.

There is something seriously wrong on his side or in his head. Much like Vandoorne.
Q. What do Gasly and Vandoorne have in common?
A. A top tier driver as a teammate making their lives hell
Making their top driver teammates look like they are doing miracles week in week out because the car is undriveable to them or they have psychological issues.

McLaren was slow and the RB is slow too.. the narrative is there for a reason.
The McLaren was slow! How was it not slow?!

Alonso >> Vandoorne
Verstappen >> Gasly

If Gasly/Vandoorne have psychological issues in dealing with a top level teammate then they're simply not cut out for the top themselves
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Pullrod
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Re: How fast is Verstappen relative to Hamilton? (THREAD SPL

Post by Pullrod »

mcdo wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
KingVoid wrote:Gasly won the GP2 title at the age of 20. Last season people were praising Gasly after his performances in Bahrain and Hungary. This idea that he’s now somehow the worst driver on the grid is complete nonsense. Therefore the argument that Gasly is bad and therefore we can’t rate Verstappen is BS.

Also, Gasly is not as good as Bottas. I never said he was.
So do you think the actual gap is a good picture of their respective talent?
I watch the races with live timing and guess what? everybody is overtaking left and right bar Gasly.

There is something seriously wrong on his side or in his head. Much like Vandoorne.
Q. What do Gasly and Vandoorne have in common?
A. A top tier driver as a teammate making their lives hell
Making their top driver teammates look like they are doing miracles week in week out because the car is undriveable to them or they have psychological issues.

McLaren was slow and the RB is slow too.. the narrative is there for a reason.
The McLaren was slow! How was it not slow?!

Alonso >> Vandoorne
Verstappen >> Gasly

If Gasly/Vandoorne have psychological issues in dealing with a top level teammate then they're simply not cut out for the top themselves
That's what I said.
Verstappen is being flattered by Gasly just like Alonso with Vandoorne who did exactly 1 overtake in 3 years.

In Austria, with a competent driver in the other RB, Verstappen would not have won the race and would not have got a 11/10 score . It is all relative and a "lost" teammate can do wonders to a driver's reputation. ;)

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