planetf1.com

UnlikeUday wrote:

pokerman wrote:

pendulumeffect wrote:Perez would be a better choice than Bottas. He had a bright start to his career until he fell out of favour at McLaren for not being a team player and basically being number 2, when he was pretty close to Button. He has been at the same team far too long.

Perez I would say is not a strong qualifier, his race pace may be good in the midfield but nothing special at the pointy end of the grid.

But his style of driving in similar to Verstappen's or Ricciardo's - Fiesty. No doubt he's good on tyres & strategy but he also dares to take risks & goes for gaps. A very recent example was Canada when he went on the inside of Albon into turn 1 on the 1st lap because there was a gap.

His best year no doubt was 2012 where he managed a couple of 2nd places.

TheGiantHogweed wrote:

pokerman wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:

pokerman wrote:Yet again I can't get involved with things that won't happen but only in things that have a better chance of happening, for 2020 the seat is between Bottas and Ocon.

However for 2021 there are many more options with Vettel, Verstappen and Ricciardo all being out of contract, all these drivers are better than Bottas/Ocon so I would like to see one of those 3 paired with Hamilton, hopefully at that time Hamilton will be a 7 time WDC.

The only other drivers that would be as good are Leclerc and Alonso, however Leclerc is under contract at Ferrari while Alonso is not desired by any of the top teams which has nothing to do with his ability as such.

I don't know if I am taking in what you are saying wrong, but do you actually mean that you think Leclerc is as good as Hamilton? If it is that, then it is a bit too early to suggest this. I can understand Alonso could well be though. But Leclerc is overall quite obviously looking worse than Vettel, who has not had a perfect start. So far this season including Leclerc mistakes, I can barely say he's been better than Bottas. Many think he has potential, but this is only what we think. Vettel has outqualified him 6 - 2 and we have only seen Leclerc against Vettel for a small amount of time. The rest of it was against Ericsson which doesn't prove much.

Basically, I think Leclerc has shown about as much promise as Bottas did in 2014 in the first stages. A few mistakes, but signs of being very quick. Bottas's few glimpses of this are not very consistent. But then I don't think Leclerc has been very consistent this year and he's made several mistakes, 2 of which were pretty big and costly.

No I'm just saying he's probably better than Bottas also taking into account it's only his second season in F1.

Ok, fair enough. I mentioned 2014 for Bottas as that was his 2nd season too and i personally think he showed about as much potential as Leclerc at his current stage now. And Bottas didn't show as much as some expected from then on. I'm just saying that it is a bit early to be judged really IMO.

pokerman wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:

pokerman wrote:

pendulumeffect wrote:Perez would be a better choice than Bottas. He had a bright start to his career until he fell out of favour at McLaren for not being a team player and basically being number 2, when he was pretty close to Button. He has been at the same team far too long.

Perez I would say is not a strong qualifier, his race pace may be good in the midfield but nothing special at the pointy end of the grid.

But his style of driving in similar to Verstappen's or Ricciardo's - Fiesty. No doubt he's good on tyres & strategy but he also dares to take risks & goes for gaps. A very recent example was Canada when he went on the inside of Albon into turn 1 on the 1st lap because there was a gap.

His best year no doubt was 2012 where he managed a couple of 2nd places.

You missed the bit about qualifying though, being a poor qualifier in a top team is a killer unless you have the fortune of being in a dominant car, being able to pass Albon into the first corner is not quite the same.

mikeyg123 wrote: It's pretty relevant TBH. If you add a little nuance and take out first and last season the cross team mate comparison is generally a good predictor. Obviously not fool proof though.

Laz_T800 wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote: It's pretty relevant TBH. If you add a little nuance and take out first and last season the cross team mate comparison is generally a good predictor. Obviously not fool proof though.

But it's all based on the Button/Perez season being seen as equal.
1/ they only had one season together
2/ They weren't equal!

pokerman wrote: 7-6 to Perez but with Button having a better average of 0.06s, I tip you just took 5 minutes to get all that off a website that just throws everything into the mix whereas I discount wet sessions and were drivers had to be in the same sessions when they set their times, so basically I throw out all the junk, in Australia because of the wet qualifying Button managed to post a time over 9 seconds quicker than Perez, this was included in the website you visited seeing as there was 19 races that year.

I take hours compiling these stats, you spent 5 minutes on a website to make fun of my results.

pokerman wrote:

Laz_T800 wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote: It's pretty relevant TBH. If you add a little nuance and take out first and last season the cross team mate comparison is generally a good predictor. Obviously not fool proof though.

But it's all based on the Button/Perez season being seen as equal.
1/ they only had one season together
2/ They weren't equal!

With #1 I take your point, with #2 I basically just rubbished your post.

Laz_T800 wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote: It's pretty relevant TBH. If you add a little nuance and take out first and last season the cross team mate comparison is generally a good predictor. Obviously not fool proof though.

But it's all based on the Button/Perez season being seen as equal.
1/ they only had one season together
2/ They weren't equal!

mmi16 wrote:Rosberg

Laz_T800 wrote:

pokerman wrote: 7-6 to Perez but with Button having a better average of 0.06s, I tip you just took 5 minutes to get all that off a website that just throws everything into the mix whereas I discount wet sessions and were drivers had to be in the same sessions when they set their times, so basically I throw out all the junk, in Australia because of the wet qualifying Button managed to post a time over 9 seconds quicker than Perez, this was included in the website you visited seeing as there was 19 races that year.

I take hours compiling these stats, you spent 5 minutes on a website to make fun of my results.

I wasn't making fun of your results?
I will however never take a comparison seriously when you have to use such a convoluted method.
Having that many degrees of separation between Hamilton and Verstappen waters down the comparison to the point of uselessness IMHO.

babararacucudada wrote:The surprise isn't that Bottas is slower than Hamilton - the surprise is that the difference is less than what was expected.

We don't know how good drivers are until they are in the same car, and even then they may not be on a level playing field.

pokerman wrote:

babararacucudada wrote:The surprise isn't that Bottas is slower than Hamilton - the surprise is that the difference is less than what was expected.

We don't know how good drivers are until they are in the same car, and even then they may not be on a level playing field.

Its actually exactly as could be predicted, did you not see my numbers?

babararacucudada wrote:

pokerman wrote:

babararacucudada wrote:The surprise isn't that Bottas is slower than Hamilton - the surprise is that the difference is less than what was expected.

We don't know how good drivers are until they are in the same car, and even then they may not be on a level playing field.

Its actually exactly as could be predicted, did you not see my numbers?

I checked and the forecast was surprisingly accurate for points scored.
http://forum.planet-f1.com/viewtopic.ph ... s+Hamilton
Bottas has scored 73% of Hamilton's points, so a bit below what was predicted.

I was thinking of qualifying performances and the impression I had formed was that Bottas was closer than predicted.

Option or Prime wrote:That's a good summary V33, I've often wondered if Hamilton would go to Ferrari after Mercedes but I think the culture shock of German efficiency v Italian creativity might be too much!

pokerman wrote:

babararacucudada wrote:

pokerman wrote:

babararacucudada wrote:The surprise isn't that Bottas is slower than Hamilton - the surprise is that the difference is less than what was expected.

We don't know how good drivers are until they are in the same car, and even then they may not be on a level playing field.

Its actually exactly as could be predicted, did you not see my numbers?

I checked and the forecast was surprisingly accurate for points scored.
http://forum.planet-f1.com/viewtopic.ph ... s+Hamilton
Bottas has scored 73% of Hamilton's points, so a bit below what was predicted.

I was thinking of qualifying performances and the impression I had formed was that Bottas was closer than predicted.

That prediction was for the 2017 season so the majority predicted right with Bottas scoring 84% of Hamilton's points.

As for qualifying like I said it's very much as you would expect but did anyone actually make a prediction in regards to that?