2019 French Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

shoot999
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Re: 2019 French Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by shoot999 »

cmax wrote:Guys am I being paranoid is team Sky really digging into Lewis lately?
Not sure its Sky specific; but there has always been an underlining issue between lets say a number of the senior British Drivers and Hamilton. Although I woudn't place most of the current Sky ex-drivers in that; apart from possibly Brundle. I think its more the direction that this new guy in charge of Sky F1 is taking it. If things carry on like they have today they will spend the next few races picking the scabs off every little mistake Seb makes and blowing smoke up Hamilton.

And I'm hoping they put up the traffic between Vettel/Ferrari/Leclerc. What was that all about?

pokerman
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Re: 2019 French Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by pokerman »

Red Bull it seems always has something to blame for lack of performance, first engines that was fair enough, the new gripe now is tyres but seriously how can they explain McLaren, a team with neither Mercedes or Ferrari engines, being quicker than them, they've really dropped the ball with the car this year, were Gasly has qualified probably shows more were the car is at?
Last edited by pokerman on Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2019 French Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

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Lotus49
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Re: 2019 French Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Lotus49 »

kleefton wrote:Hamilton is going to make this the most boring championship ever. Ferrari just cannot compete consistently enough and Bottas is fading. As a Hamilton fan it's enjoyable but I can see many people turning off F1 until next year. Leclerc stomped Vettel, who just doesn't look like he was on it all weekend. The Mclarens somehow are quick here. I think they are using that improved Renault power unit better than the works team. Gasly miles away from Verstappen again. I wonder how long until the inevitable demotion happens. Losing out to midfield cars every now and then is not a good look. Lance stroll still has not gotten out of Q1 all year. It is amazing how he can be so poor at qualifying, while in the race he is quite decent. Should be a good race, this track may look awful but it allows overtaking and last year's race was quite good I recall.
They're not using the new update on the PU yet, it's the Spain update getting dialled in. They use the tyres pretty well and floor,FW and endplate updates are helping them in medium and slow corners.

Seidl...

AMUS friday analycis
> Merc on another planet
> Merc and and Mcl where the best at handling the tires today
now to the specific mclaren part
"mclaren presented itself very well in all conditions. Lando only 2th slower then vet. In soft longrun they where on rb level. The modifications to the front part, fw and floor seem to have worked. "and that on a track thats not supposed to be a favourite" enjoyed seidl.
The modifications are aimed at aiding the car in slow and medium speed curves/corners making it more stabile. Seidl warns though "we where very fast in montreal also on friday and then fell back" Further hulk sees mclaren as their main competitor this weekend. "they look rock solid, will be difficult to beat them" not least because mclaren has less problems getting the tires to work. "We solved that pretty well, by the looks of it, better then a lot other" Seidl confirmed
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
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Re: 2019 French Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Mercedes-Benz »

It was very close in the midfield. May be it is the temperature, the track was getting faster but Mcalren looks really good through out the weekend so far. RBR were disappointing. I thought they would match Ferrari but I guess in race they can compete with them. Gasly just barely able to beat STR :? Antonio has improved in qualifying it was close up couple of tenth I think separated 6 drivers
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Re: 2019 French Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by sandman1347 »

Interesting session. Mercedes are still the strongest and Hamilton is now starting to drop Bottas. I think this will be Lewis's easiest championship since 2015. It just doesn't look like either Ferrari or his teammate can sustain a meaningful challenge and he is just the pinnacle of consistency both on Saturdays and Sundays.

For Ferrari, they showed pretty good pace overall with Charles finishing just 3-4 tenths off Valteri but there's still that gap between them and Mercedes at any circuit other than the extreme low-downforce ones. Great day from Charles though and a much needed chance to turn his season around. Shocking performance from Vettel here though. He was absolutely nowhere and I'm a bit concerned about the attitude he let slip yet again on the radio. Vettel really does not fit that stereotypical German mold at all. He's almost like a Brazilian or an Italian with how hot-headed he can be and it can cause him to spiral when things go wrong rather than simply putting it behind him and recovering.

Another strong day from Verstappen and he's in with a shot at the podium tomorrow. Renault kind of disappointed with their big update but Dan did a solid job overall. McLaren, on the other hand, looked fantastic! At long last things have genuinely turned around for them. They are quite strong and they are in the hunt for that best of the rest trophy once you get past the big 3. It's been a long time coming but the team really has a good energy about it and they are moving in the right direction. Lando is one to watch moving forward as well. The kid has talent and he's still just 19. I think they should go to great lengths to hang on to him.

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Re: 2019 French Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by sandman1347 »

cmax wrote:Guys am I being paranoid is team Sky really digging into Lewis lately?
They seem to be trying to suggest that Bottas is on par with him; which really degrades their credibility even further. Honestly I find myself less impressed by this team with every broadcast. Most of these guys are out to lunch half the time and I often feel like you can find a more enlightening perspective from the guy seated next to you at the pub...

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Re: 2019 French Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by BMWSauber84 »

Absolutely everything seems to be about getting these tyres in the window right now. Supposedly Helmut Marko asked Giovanazzi how he was able to go quick enough for Q3 and Gio said that he just got the tyres in the window.

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Re: 2019 French Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Johnson »

sandman1347 wrote:Interesting session. Mercedes are still the strongest and Hamilton is now starting to drop Bottas. I think this will be Lewis's easiest championship since 2015. It just doesn't look like either Ferrari or his teammate can sustain a meaningful challenge and he is just the pinnacle of consistency both on Saturdays and Sundays.

For Ferrari, they showed pretty good pace overall with Charles finishing just 3-4 tenths off Valteri but there's still that gap between them and Mercedes at any circuit other than the extreme low-downforce ones. Great day from Charles though and a much needed chance to turn his season around. Shocking performance from Vettel here though. He was absolutely nowhere and I'm a bit concerned about the attitude he let slip yet again on the radio. Vettel really does not fit that stereotypical German mold at all. He's almost like a Brazilian or an Italian with how hot-headed he can be and it can cause him to spiral when things go wrong rather than simply putting it behind him and recovering.

Another strong day from Verstappen and he's in with a shot at the podium tomorrow. Renault kind of disappointed with their big update but Dan did a solid job overall. McLaren, on the other hand, looked fantastic! At long last things have genuinely turned around for them. They are quite strong and they are in the hunt for that best of the rest trophy once you get past the big 3. It's been a long time coming but the team really has a good energy about it and they are moving in the right direction. Lando is one to watch moving forward as well. The kid has talent and he's still just 19. I think they should go to great lengths to hang on to him.
Potentially the most comfortable of all, especially if he wins tomorrow. He could be 36 points clear after 8 races. In 2015, he was only 10 points clear of Rosberg after 8 races. 2015 only became 'easy' once Rosberg DNF'd at Monza.

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Re: 2019 French Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by UnlikeUday »

McLaren have made the biggest gain when compared to last year's times:

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Re: 2019 French Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

sandman1347 wrote:
cmax wrote:Guys am I being paranoid is team Sky really digging into Lewis lately?
They seem to be trying to suggest that Bottas is on par with him; which really degrades their credibility even further. Honestly I find myself less impressed by this team with every broadcast. Most of these guys are out to lunch half the time and I often feel like you can find a more enlightening perspective from the guy seated next to you at the pub...
In the races this year overall, i certainly won't say Bottas has been on par with Hamilton, but until Q3 this time out, he's certainly looked on par to Hamilton. And if you include all the qualifying sessions this year, there still hasn't been much to choose between them. So if they are talking about him being close in qualifying, i wouldn't argue at all. But i can see that in the races, unless Bottas gets a better start, Hamilton can pull away.

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Re: 2019 French Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by sandman1347 »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
cmax wrote:Guys am I being paranoid is team Sky really digging into Lewis lately?
They seem to be trying to suggest that Bottas is on par with him; which really degrades their credibility even further. Honestly I find myself less impressed by this team with every broadcast. Most of these guys are out to lunch half the time and I often feel like you can find a more enlightening perspective from the guy seated next to you at the pub...
In the races this year overall, i certainly won't say Bottas has been on par with Hamilton, but until Q3 this time out, he's certainly looked on par to Hamilton. And if you include all the qualifying sessions this year, there still hasn't been much to choose between them. So if they are talking about him being close in qualifying, i wouldn't argue at all. But i can see that in the races, unless Bottas gets a better start, Hamilton can pull away.
We have this same conversation every season...

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Re: 2019 French Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by BMWSauber84 »

Vettel had power unit dropout issues in quali it seems.

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Re: 2019 French Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

sandman1347 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
cmax wrote:Guys am I being paranoid is team Sky really digging into Lewis lately?
They seem to be trying to suggest that Bottas is on par with him; which really degrades their credibility even further. Honestly I find myself less impressed by this team with every broadcast. Most of these guys are out to lunch half the time and I often feel like you can find a more enlightening perspective from the guy seated next to you at the pub...
In the races this year overall, i certainly won't say Bottas has been on par with Hamilton, but until Q3 this time out, he's certainly looked on par to Hamilton. And if you include all the qualifying sessions this year, there still hasn't been much to choose between them. So if they are talking about him being close in qualifying, i wouldn't argue at all. But i can see that in the races, unless Bottas gets a better start, Hamilton can pull away.
We have this same conversation every season...
I don't understand why you are bringing this into it. I am not including anything to do with what might happen later on in the season and it could well change... A good deal of what I said should make it clear that i think Hamilton will get the better of him. I should have said specifically in qualifying, he's looked on par to Hamilton. I wasn't including this time out. As sky were talking about Bottas looking matched before this session. I haven't done this maths myself yet, but the average time gap between them qualifying wise will not be big at all, especially if judged before the run today. Both Bottas and Hamilton were behind each other by over 6 tenths in one Q3 each but I think Hamilton seems to get ignored by some as the Mercedes dominance that weekend didn't cost him several positions like it did with Bottas in Canada. All the others were under a tenth of a second other than Australia, which was a tiny fraction over.

My main point was that I wouldn't argue with sky if they said he's pretty much been on par in qualifying. I am not going any further to suggest this will certainly continue. It might or might not.

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Re: 2019 French Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by sandman1347 »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
cmax wrote:Guys am I being paranoid is team Sky really digging into Lewis lately?
They seem to be trying to suggest that Bottas is on par with him; which really degrades their credibility even further. Honestly I find myself less impressed by this team with every broadcast. Most of these guys are out to lunch half the time and I often feel like you can find a more enlightening perspective from the guy seated next to you at the pub...
In the races this year overall, i certainly won't say Bottas has been on par with Hamilton, but until Q3 this time out, he's certainly looked on par to Hamilton. And if you include all the qualifying sessions this year, there still hasn't been much to choose between them. So if they are talking about him being close in qualifying, i wouldn't argue at all. But i can see that in the races, unless Bottas gets a better start, Hamilton can pull away.
We have this same conversation every season...
I don't understand why you are bringing this into it. I am not including anything to do with what might happen later on in the season and it could well change... A good deal of what I said should make it clear that i think Hamilton will get the better of him. I should have said specifically in qualifying, he's looked on par to Hamilton. I wasn't including this time out. As sky were talking about Bottas looking matched before this session. I haven't done this maths myself yet, but the average time gap between them qualifying wise will not be big at all, especially if judged before the run today. Both Bottas and Hamilton were behind each other by over 6 tenths in one Q3 each but I think Hamilton seems to get ignored by some as the Mercedes dominance that weekend didn't cost him several positions like it did with Bottas in Canada. All the others were under a tenth of a second other than Australia, which was a tiny fraction over.

My main point was that I wouldn't argue with sky if they said he's pretty much been on par in qualifying. I am not going any further to suggest this will certainly continue. It might or might not.
Well, as I've said before, Valteri is having a very strong season overall. It has been the strongest season of his career in terms of consistency in the races. In qualifying, Valteri has always been strong. That is the area where he is at his strongest and he has generally been pretty close to Hamilton throughout the first third of the season in all three years that he's been at Mercedes. Nothing has really changed on that front. From about Canada on, Hamilton just leaves him behind though in both qualifying and the race. In fairness, this happened from Barcelona in previous years so I think Valteri's Barcelona performance stamps home the fact that this is his best season but he is NOT on par with Hamilton neither in qualifying nor especially on race day.

Generally, Valteri also benefits from coming out behind Hamilton for qualifying runs. This was the first time in a while where Hamilton came out behind and I think that changes things significantly. It's astonishing how few people realize that.

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Re: 2019 French Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

sandman1347 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
sandman1347 wrote: They seem to be trying to suggest that Bottas is on par with him; which really degrades their credibility even further. Honestly I find myself less impressed by this team with every broadcast. Most of these guys are out to lunch half the time and I often feel like you can find a more enlightening perspective from the guy seated next to you at the pub...
In the races this year overall, i certainly won't say Bottas has been on par with Hamilton, but until Q3 this time out, he's certainly looked on par to Hamilton. And if you include all the qualifying sessions this year, there still hasn't been much to choose between them. So if they are talking about him being close in qualifying, i wouldn't argue at all. But i can see that in the races, unless Bottas gets a better start, Hamilton can pull away.
We have this same conversation every season...
I don't understand why you are bringing this into it. I am not including anything to do with what might happen later on in the season and it could well change... A good deal of what I said should make it clear that i think Hamilton will get the better of him. I should have said specifically in qualifying, he's looked on par to Hamilton. I wasn't including this time out. As sky were talking about Bottas looking matched before this session. I haven't done this maths myself yet, but the average time gap between them qualifying wise will not be big at all, especially if judged before the run today. Both Bottas and Hamilton were behind each other by over 6 tenths in one Q3 each but I think Hamilton seems to get ignored by some as the Mercedes dominance that weekend didn't cost him several positions like it did with Bottas in Canada. All the others were under a tenth of a second other than Australia, which was a tiny fraction over.

My main point was that I wouldn't argue with sky if they said he's pretty much been on par in qualifying. I am not going any further to suggest this will certainly continue. It might or might not.
Well, as I've said before, Valteri is having a very strong season overall. It has been the strongest season of his career in terms of consistency in the races. In qualifying, Valteri has always been strong. That is the area where he is at his strongest and he has generally been pretty close to Hamilton throughout the first third of the season in all three years that he's been at Mercedes. Nothing has really changed on that front. From about Canada on, Hamilton just leaves him behind though in both qualifying and the race. In fairness, this happened from Barcelona in previous years so I think Valteri's Barcelona performance stamps home the fact that this is his best season but he is NOT on par with Hamilton neither in qualifying nor especially on race day.

Generally, Valteri also benefits from coming out behind Hamilton for qualifying runs. This was the first time in a while where Hamilton came out behind and I think that changes things significantly. It's astonishing how few people realize that.
2 of the times hamilton had this benefit - both in Baku and Spain, Bottas out qualified him. I'm not sure if it does make that much of a difference. Would Bottas have been closer today if it had been switched?

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Re: 2019 French Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by pokerman »

shoot999 wrote:
cmax wrote:Guys am I being paranoid is team Sky really digging into Lewis lately?
Not sure its Sky specific; but there has always been an underlining issue between lets say a number of the senior British Drivers and Hamilton. Although I woudn't place most of the current Sky ex-drivers in that; apart from possibly Brundle. I think its more the direction that this new guy in charge of Sky F1 is taking it. If things carry on like they have today they will spend the next few races picking the scabs off every little mistake Seb makes and blowing smoke up Hamilton.

And I'm hoping they put up the traffic between Vettel/Ferrari/Leclerc. What was that all about?
Hmmm the say guy who decided to axe Ted's notebook before fan upheaval?
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Re: 2019 French Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by kleefton »

Lotus49 wrote:
kleefton wrote:Hamilton is going to make this the most boring championship ever. Ferrari just cannot compete consistently enough and Bottas is fading. As a Hamilton fan it's enjoyable but I can see many people turning off F1 until next year. Leclerc stomped Vettel, who just doesn't look like he was on it all weekend. The Mclarens somehow are quick here. I think they are using that improved Renault power unit better than the works team. Gasly miles away from Verstappen again. I wonder how long until the inevitable demotion happens. Losing out to midfield cars every now and then is not a good look. Lance stroll still has not gotten out of Q1 all year. It is amazing how he can be so poor at qualifying, while in the race he is quite decent. Should be a good race, this track may look awful but it allows overtaking and last year's race was quite good I recall.
They're not using the new update on the PU yet, it's the Spain update getting dialled in. They use the tyres pretty well and floor,FW and endplate updates are helping them in medium and slow corners.

Seidl...

AMUS friday analycis
> Merc on another planet
> Merc and and Mcl where the best at handling the tires today
now to the specific mclaren part
"mclaren presented itself very well in all conditions. Lando only 2th slower then vet. In soft longrun they where on rb level. The modifications to the front part, fw and floor seem to have worked. "and that on a track thats not supposed to be a favourite" enjoyed seidl.
The modifications are aimed at aiding the car in slow and medium speed curves/corners making it more stabile. Seidl warns though "we where very fast in montreal also on friday and then fell back" Further hulk sees mclaren as their main competitor this weekend. "they look rock solid, will be difficult to beat them" not least because mclaren has less problems getting the tires to work. "We solved that pretty well, by the looks of it, better then a lot other" Seidl confirmed
Ah...thanks. But they are pretty impressive on this track. Still have ways to go to catch the front runners but they are on the right path and it's the first time in a long time I can say that with confidence. Will be interesting to see if they can challenge Max in the race.

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Re: 2019 French Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by kleefton »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
cmax wrote:Guys am I being paranoid is team Sky really digging into Lewis lately?
They seem to be trying to suggest that Bottas is on par with him; which really degrades their credibility even further. Honestly I find myself less impressed by this team with every broadcast. Most of these guys are out to lunch half the time and I often feel like you can find a more enlightening perspective from the guy seated next to you at the pub...
In the races this year overall, i certainly won't say Bottas has been on par with Hamilton, but until Q3 this time out, he's certainly looked on par to Hamilton. And if you include all the qualifying sessions this year, there still hasn't been much to choose between them. So if they are talking about him being close in qualifying, i wouldn't argue at all. But i can see that in the races, unless Bottas gets a better start, Hamilton can pull away.
We have this same conversation every season...
I don't understand why you are bringing this into it. I am not including anything to do with what might happen later on in the season and it could well change... A good deal of what I said should make it clear that i think Hamilton will get the better of him. I should have said specifically in qualifying, he's looked on par to Hamilton. I wasn't including this time out. As sky were talking about Bottas looking matched before this session. I haven't done this maths myself yet, but the average time gap between them qualifying wise will not be big at all, especially if judged before the run today. Both Bottas and Hamilton were behind each other by over 6 tenths in one Q3 each but I think Hamilton seems to get ignored by some as the Mercedes dominance that weekend didn't cost him several positions like it did with Bottas in Canada. All the others were under a tenth of a second other than Australia, which was a tiny fraction over.

My main point was that I wouldn't argue with sky if they said he's pretty much been on par in qualifying. I am not going any further to suggest this will certainly continue. It might or might not.
I believe that time that Hamilton was 6 tenths behind he could not recharge his battery properly, and it's the only time he has ever been behind Bottas by more than half a second if I recall correctly. So I don't think it's fair to keep mentioning that as it wasn't a reflection of his true pace. He demonstrated his true pace the following day.

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Re: 2019 French Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

kleefton wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
sandman1347 wrote: They seem to be trying to suggest that Bottas is on par with him; which really degrades their credibility even further. Honestly I find myself less impressed by this team with every broadcast. Most of these guys are out to lunch half the time and I often feel like you can find a more enlightening perspective from the guy seated next to you at the pub...
In the races this year overall, i certainly won't say Bottas has been on par with Hamilton, but until Q3 this time out, he's certainly looked on par to Hamilton. And if you include all the qualifying sessions this year, there still hasn't been much to choose between them. So if they are talking about him being close in qualifying, i wouldn't argue at all. But i can see that in the races, unless Bottas gets a better start, Hamilton can pull away.
We have this same conversation every season...
I don't understand why you are bringing this into it. I am not including anything to do with what might happen later on in the season and it could well change... A good deal of what I said should make it clear that i think Hamilton will get the better of him. I should have said specifically in qualifying, he's looked on par to Hamilton. I wasn't including this time out. As sky were talking about Bottas looking matched before this session. I haven't done this maths myself yet, but the average time gap between them qualifying wise will not be big at all, especially if judged before the run today. Both Bottas and Hamilton were behind each other by over 6 tenths in one Q3 each but I think Hamilton seems to get ignored by some as the Mercedes dominance that weekend didn't cost him several positions like it did with Bottas in Canada. All the others were under a tenth of a second other than Australia, which was a tiny fraction over.

My main point was that I wouldn't argue with sky if they said he's pretty much been on par in qualifying. I am not going any further to suggest this will certainly continue. It might or might not.
I believe that time that Hamilton was 6 tenths behind he could not recharge his battery properly, and it's the only time he has ever been behind Bottas by more than half a second if I recall correctly. So I don't think it's fair to keep mentioning that as it wasn't a reflection of his true pace. He demonstrated his true pace the following day.
I do remember that, but this technical issue was apparently from the end of the session before. It is a bit hard to believe to me that something all the way back in Q2 meant he couldn't do well in Q3. Anyway, his 2nd run in Q3 was still quite a way off Bottas's final attempt, although admittedly not by as much. But the first lap that counted for both obviously looked a mess for Hamilton, that has nothing to do with the battery. Both Sky and Channel 4 commented on it not being like him driving like this. He went very wide at least 3 times and at the last 2 sharp corners just didn't look at all comfortable. Basically, i think he messed his own run up like Bottas did in Canada. I don't think a battery had anything to do with it looking at it as the mistakes he made were unrelated and looked to be enough to cost him this time anyway.

They both failed to improve by doing another run too. I think it is a fair comparison and they both were around 6 tenths apart.

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Re: 2019 French Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Clarky »

BMWSauber84 wrote:Vettel had power unit dropout issues in quali it seems.
Upshift!

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Re: 2019 French Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by sandman1347 »

BMWSauber84 wrote:Vettel had power unit dropout issues in quali it seems.
According to Vettel himself, he simply didn't hook it up.

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Re: 2019 French Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Option or Prime »

sandman1347 wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:Vettel had power unit dropout issues in quali it seems.
According to Vettel himself, he simply didn't hook it up.
Both, he had an upshift issue to fourth out of the Mistral chicane and aborted the penultimate lap then his final lap he failed to hook it up.

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Re: 2019 French Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by JN23 »

Rockie wrote:
JN23 wrote:Leclerc seems to have the measure of Vettel so far this weekend. He spoke after Canada about how he needs to work on his Q3 performances so interesting to see how that plays out today
How people never learn with the Vettel vs Leclerc comparisons during FP's vs qualifying and actual race.
So it seems the Vettel vs Leclerc comparison in FP was comparable with qualifying yesterday/today.

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Re: 2019 French Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by JN23 »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
kleefton wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote: In the races this year overall, i certainly won't say Bottas has been on par with Hamilton, but until Q3 this time out, he's certainly looked on par to Hamilton. And if you include all the qualifying sessions this year, there still hasn't been much to choose between them. So if they are talking about him being close in qualifying, i wouldn't argue at all. But i can see that in the races, unless Bottas gets a better start, Hamilton can pull away.
We have this same conversation every season...
I don't understand why you are bringing this into it. I am not including anything to do with what might happen later on in the season and it could well change... A good deal of what I said should make it clear that i think Hamilton will get the better of him. I should have said specifically in qualifying, he's looked on par to Hamilton. I wasn't including this time out. As sky were talking about Bottas looking matched before this session. I haven't done this maths myself yet, but the average time gap between them qualifying wise will not be big at all, especially if judged before the run today. Both Bottas and Hamilton were behind each other by over 6 tenths in one Q3 each but I think Hamilton seems to get ignored by some as the Mercedes dominance that weekend didn't cost him several positions like it did with Bottas in Canada. All the others were under a tenth of a second other than Australia, which was a tiny fraction over.

My main point was that I wouldn't argue with sky if they said he's pretty much been on par in qualifying. I am not going any further to suggest this will certainly continue. It might or might not.
I believe that time that Hamilton was 6 tenths behind he could not recharge his battery properly, and it's the only time he has ever been behind Bottas by more than half a second if I recall correctly. So I don't think it's fair to keep mentioning that as it wasn't a reflection of his true pace. He demonstrated his true pace the following day.
I do remember that, but this technical issue was apparently from the end of the session before. It is a bit hard to believe to me that something all the way back in Q2 meant he couldn't do well in Q3. Anyway, his 2nd run in Q3 was still quite a way off Bottas's final attempt, although admittedly not by as much. But the first lap that counted for both obviously looked a mess for Hamilton, that has nothing to do with the battery. Both Sky and Channel 4 commented on it not being like him driving like this. He went very wide at least 3 times and at the last 2 sharp corners just didn't look at all comfortable. Basically, i think he messed his own run up like Bottas did in Canada. I don't think a battery had anything to do with it looking at it as the mistakes he made were unrelated and looked to be enough to cost him this time anyway.

They both failed to improve by doing another run too. I think it is a fair comparison and they both were around 6 tenths apart.
From memory, Hamilton had to abort his second run in Q2 because of a yellow flag and boxed at the end of what was his flying lap. He therefore couldn't recharge the battery on his in lap. He then had to get the tyres to temperature and recharge the battery on his out lap for the first Q3 runs when Bottas was 0.6s faster.

LBET
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Re: 2019 French Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by LBET »

JN23 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
JN23 wrote:Leclerc seems to have the measure of Vettel so far this weekend. He spoke after Canada about how he needs to work on his Q3 performances so interesting to see how that plays out today
How people never learn with the Vettel vs Leclerc comparisons during FP's vs qualifying and actual race.
So it seems the Vettel vs Leclerc comparison in FP was comparable with qualifying yesterday/today.
How interesting is that!

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Re: 2019 French Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

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Re: 2019 French Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Exediron »

JN23 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
JN23 wrote:Leclerc seems to have the measure of Vettel so far this weekend. He spoke after Canada about how he needs to work on his Q3 performances so interesting to see how that plays out today
How people never learn with the Vettel vs Leclerc comparisons during FP's vs qualifying and actual race.
So it seems the Vettel vs Leclerc comparison in FP was comparable with qualifying yesterday/today.
:nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:
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TheGiantHogweed
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Re: 2019 French Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

JN23 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
kleefton wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
sandman1347 wrote: We have this same conversation every season...
I don't understand why you are bringing this into it. I am not including anything to do with what might happen later on in the season and it could well change... A good deal of what I said should make it clear that i think Hamilton will get the better of him. I should have said specifically in qualifying, he's looked on par to Hamilton. I wasn't including this time out. As sky were talking about Bottas looking matched before this session. I haven't done this maths myself yet, but the average time gap between them qualifying wise will not be big at all, especially if judged before the run today. Both Bottas and Hamilton were behind each other by over 6 tenths in one Q3 each but I think Hamilton seems to get ignored by some as the Mercedes dominance that weekend didn't cost him several positions like it did with Bottas in Canada. All the others were under a tenth of a second other than Australia, which was a tiny fraction over.

My main point was that I wouldn't argue with sky if they said he's pretty much been on par in qualifying. I am not going any further to suggest this will certainly continue. It might or might not.
I believe that time that Hamilton was 6 tenths behind he could not recharge his battery properly, and it's the only time he has ever been behind Bottas by more than half a second if I recall correctly. So I don't think it's fair to keep mentioning that as it wasn't a reflection of his true pace. He demonstrated his true pace the following day.
I do remember that, but this technical issue was apparently from the end of the session before. It is a bit hard to believe to me that something all the way back in Q2 meant he couldn't do well in Q3. Anyway, his 2nd run in Q3 was still quite a way off Bottas's final attempt, although admittedly not by as much. But the first lap that counted for both obviously looked a mess for Hamilton, that has nothing to do with the battery. Both Sky and Channel 4 commented on it not being like him driving like this. He went very wide at least 3 times and at the last 2 sharp corners just didn't look at all comfortable. Basically, i think he messed his own run up like Bottas did in Canada. I don't think a battery had anything to do with it looking at it as the mistakes he made were unrelated and looked to be enough to cost him this time anyway.

They both failed to improve by doing another run too. I think it is a fair comparison and they both were around 6 tenths apart.
From memory, Hamilton had to abort his second run in Q2 because of a yellow flag and boxed at the end of what was his flying lap. He therefore couldn't recharge the battery on his in lap. He then had to get the tyres to temperature and recharge the battery on his out lap for the first Q3 runs when Bottas was 0.6s faster.
Sainz went wide at the end on Q2 just after Bottas had completed his fastest lap at the end. Hamilton was currently on a fast lap but from what you can see of sainz's onboard view, there were no yellow flags out even when he went off track strangely enough. And at the time Hamilton came in, loads of others were improving their times. Looking at the last few minutes of the coverage on Channel 4 highlights shows the same as Sky would have done, and no yellows popped up when Hamilton was doing his last attempt. So I don't know why Hamilton couldn't have finished his lap and done another slow one if it was that important.

But I still don't see how having to recharge the battery and warm the tyres up , (2nd of which Bottas also had to do) will have been anything to do with Hamilton having a messy run which easily looked to be the main cause for that time gap.

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Re: 2019 French Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Rockie »

JN23 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
JN23 wrote:Leclerc seems to have the measure of Vettel so far this weekend. He spoke after Canada about how he needs to work on his Q3 performances so interesting to see how that plays out today
How people never learn with the Vettel vs Leclerc comparisons during FP's vs qualifying and actual race.
So it seems the Vettel vs Leclerc comparison in FP was comparable with qualifying yesterday/today.
Your beliefs cannot be changed, a session where Vettel had problems is what you want to use for improvement of Leclerc oh well!

JN23
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Re: 2019 French Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by JN23 »

Rockie wrote:
JN23 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
JN23 wrote:Leclerc seems to have the measure of Vettel so far this weekend. He spoke after Canada about how he needs to work on his Q3 performances so interesting to see how that plays out today
How people never learn with the Vettel vs Leclerc comparisons during FP's vs qualifying and actual race.
So it seems the Vettel vs Leclerc comparison in FP was comparable with qualifying yesterday/today.
Your beliefs cannot be changed, a session where Vettel had problems is what you want to use for improvement of Leclerc oh well!
What were his problems? His first run in Q3 was compromised, fine. But his second run was poor.

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Mort Canard
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Re: 2019 French Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Mort Canard »

Here's hoping that Norris and Sainz can take the fight to Max Verstappen today. Would love to see Max having to hold off a young charger like Lando.
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Rockie
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Re: 2019 French Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Rockie »

JN23 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
JN23 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
JN23 wrote:Leclerc seems to have the measure of Vettel so far this weekend. He spoke after Canada about how he needs to work on his Q3 performances so interesting to see how that plays out today
How people never learn with the Vettel vs Leclerc comparisons during FP's vs qualifying and actual race.
So it seems the Vettel vs Leclerc comparison in FP was comparable with qualifying yesterday/today.
Your beliefs cannot be changed, a session where Vettel had problems is what you want to use for improvement of Leclerc oh well!
What were his problems? His first run in Q3 was compromised, fine. But his second run was poor.
Maybe if you heard all they had to change in his engine in parc ferme!

JN23
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Re: 2019 French Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by JN23 »

Rockie wrote:
JN23 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
JN23 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
How people never learn with the Vettel vs Leclerc comparisons during FP's vs qualifying and actual race.
So it seems the Vettel vs Leclerc comparison in FP was comparable with qualifying yesterday/today.
Your beliefs cannot be changed, a session where Vettel had problems is what you want to use for improvement of Leclerc oh well!
What were his problems? His first run in Q3 was compromised, fine. But his second run was poor.
Maybe if you heard all they had to change in his engine in parc ferme!
And according to this Binotto it had nothing to do with the Q3 performance: https://twitter.com/tgruener/status/114 ... 36864?s=19

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