Re: Vettel's post-Canada behaviour
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:10 pm
I don't think there is a great deal wrong with Vettel's actions. It certainly doesn't compare to his ludocrous foul mouthed rant at Charlie a few years back.
Exactly this I was hoping he would have done that as well!mcdo wrote:It was box office and the vast majority loved it. Personally I was hoping he'd stick to his guns and boycott the podium altogether
Apples and Oranges no correlation at all!Laz_T800 wrote:It was a tantrum, similar to ones we've seen before from Vettel and Max.
I found the swapping numbers thing childish and disrespectful.
As recently as Monaco, Vettel benefited from a penalty that bumped him up to 2nd.
Would he have found it acceptable if Max had have taken his 2nd position marker and put it front of his car?
What he has done in this race is damaged Mercedes goodwill going forward Mercedes for all the lovey dovey they claim they have ruined their goodwill with F1 fans they will go on to win but that respect from the fans is gone now and Hamilton knows as well hence the trying to pull Vettel up to the top step!sandman1347 wrote:This is possibly the most ridiculous thing I've heard on the incident. What exactly makes you think that? Just to be clear are you referring to both Hamilton and Bottas? If so, how exactly do you compute that?KingVoid wrote:No, obviously it won’t apply if he does it to a Red Bull or Renault, but I do think that the stewards will think twice next time there’s some kind of incident between Vettel and a Mercedes.
Its got nothing to do with Mercedes, nothing at all, Vettel's argument was with the stewards.....that's why he stopped his car out of parc ferme and jumped out.Rockie wrote:What he has done in this race is damaged Mercedes goodwill going forward Mercedes for all the lovey dovey they claim they have ruined their goodwill with F1 fans they will go on to win but that respect from the fans is gone now and Hamilton knows as well hence the trying to pull Vettel up to the top step!sandman1347 wrote:This is possibly the most ridiculous thing I've heard on the incident. What exactly makes you think that? Just to be clear are you referring to both Hamilton and Bottas? If so, how exactly do you compute that?KingVoid wrote:No, obviously it won’t apply if he does it to a Red Bull or Renault, but I do think that the stewards will think twice next time there’s some kind of incident between Vettel and a Mercedes.
You have got the radio communication to listen to, its got everything to do with them.Option or Prime wrote:Its got nothing to do with Mercedes, nothing at all, Vettel's argument was with the stewards.....that's why he stopped his car out of parc ferme and jumped out.Rockie wrote:What he has done in this race is damaged Mercedes goodwill going forward Mercedes for all the lovey dovey they claim they have ruined their goodwill with F1 fans they will go on to win but that respect from the fans is gone now and Hamilton knows as well hence the trying to pull Vettel up to the top step!sandman1347 wrote:This is possibly the most ridiculous thing I've heard on the incident. What exactly makes you think that? Just to be clear are you referring to both Hamilton and Bottas? If so, how exactly do you compute that?KingVoid wrote:No, obviously it won’t apply if he does it to a Red Bull or Renault, but I do think that the stewards will think twice next time there’s some kind of incident between Vettel and a Mercedes.
Kingvoid - My apologies. Your statement is now the second most ridiculous thing I've heard on the incident.Rockie wrote:What he has done in this race is damaged Mercedes goodwill going forward Mercedes for all the lovey dovey they claim they have ruined their goodwill with F1 fans they will go on to win but that respect from the fans is gone now and Hamilton knows as well hence the trying to pull Vettel up to the top step!sandman1347 wrote:This is possibly the most ridiculous thing I've heard on the incident. What exactly makes you think that? Just to be clear are you referring to both Hamilton and Bottas? If so, how exactly do you compute that?KingVoid wrote:No, obviously it won’t apply if he does it to a Red Bull or Renault, but I do think that the stewards will think twice next time there’s some kind of incident between Vettel and a Mercedes.
What Gary Anderson had to say is well up there.sandman1347 wrote:Kingvoid - My apologies. Your statement is now the second most ridiculous thing I've heard on the incident.Rockie wrote:What he has done in this race is damaged Mercedes goodwill going forward Mercedes for all the lovey dovey they claim they have ruined their goodwill with F1 fans they will go on to win but that respect from the fans is gone now and Hamilton knows as well hence the trying to pull Vettel up to the top step!sandman1347 wrote:This is possibly the most ridiculous thing I've heard on the incident. What exactly makes you think that? Just to be clear are you referring to both Hamilton and Bottas? If so, how exactly do you compute that?KingVoid wrote:No, obviously it won’t apply if he does it to a Red Bull or Renault, but I do think that the stewards will think twice next time there’s some kind of incident between Vettel and a Mercedes.
Hahahahah whhhaaaaaaaaaaatttRockie wrote:What he has done in this race is damaged Mercedes goodwill going forward Mercedes for all the lovey dovey they claim they have ruined their goodwill with F1 fans they will go on to win but that respect from the fans is gone now and Hamilton knows as well hence the trying to pull Vettel up to the top step!sandman1347 wrote:This is possibly the most ridiculous thing I've heard on the incident. What exactly makes you think that? Just to be clear are you referring to both Hamilton and Bottas? If so, how exactly do you compute that?KingVoid wrote:No, obviously it won’t apply if he does it to a Red Bull or Renault, but I do think that the stewards will think twice next time there’s some kind of incident between Vettel and a Mercedes.
But Vettel antics were not.. (???)Rockie wrote:You seem a very toxic individual who feels they know it all and could go on and attack you for trying to ram your opinion over everyone else as you seem to do on every thread involving Hamilton or Mercedes.sandman1347 wrote:Kingvoid - My apologies. Your statement is now the second most ridiculous thing I've heard on the incident.Rockie wrote:What he has done in this race is damaged Mercedes goodwill going forward Mercedes for all the lovey dovey they claim they have ruined their goodwill with F1 fans they will go on to win but that respect from the fans is gone now and Hamilton knows as well hence the trying to pull Vettel up to the top step!sandman1347 wrote:This is possibly the most ridiculous thing I've heard on the incident. What exactly makes you think that? Just to be clear are you referring to both Hamilton and Bottas? If so, how exactly do you compute that?KingVoid wrote:No, obviously it won’t apply if he does it to a Red Bull or Renault, but I do think that the stewards will think twice next time there’s some kind of incident between Vettel and a Mercedes.
If the mods feel its ok for you to continue being disrespectful in every thread all well and good but showing no respect to other posters is tactless, classless and childish.
Apples and oranges?Pullrod wrote:But Vettel antics were not.. (???)Rockie wrote:You seem a very toxic individual who feels they know it all and could go on and attack you for trying to ram your opinion over everyone else as you seem to do on every thread involving Hamilton or Mercedes.sandman1347 wrote:Kingvoid - My apologies. Your statement is now the second most ridiculous thing I've heard on the incident.Rockie wrote:What he has done in this race is damaged Mercedes goodwill going forward Mercedes for all the lovey dovey they claim they have ruined their goodwill with F1 fans they will go on to win but that respect from the fans is gone now and Hamilton knows as well hence the trying to pull Vettel up to the top step!sandman1347 wrote: This is possibly the most ridiculous thing I've heard on the incident. What exactly makes you think that? Just to be clear are you referring to both Hamilton and Bottas? If so, how exactly do you compute that?
If the mods feel its ok for you to continue being disrespectful in every thread all well and good but showing no respect to other posters is tactless, classless and childish.
I think the Mods are quite capable of policing the board, in this case I don't think the Sandman is bring disrespectful, tactless, classless or childish. It is simply not a Ferrari v Mercedes issue. You are right to support Vettel, he did get a harsh decision but its not a wrong decision.Rockie wrote:If the mods feel its ok for you to continue being disrespectful in every thread all well and good but showing no respect to other posters is tactless, classless and childish.
While I think Vettel goes a bit over the top at times, such as in Canada, it also tells me just how much it means to him and his level of motivation. I'd much rather have some emotional outbursts from a guy who's really motivated and driven on the grid than some paycheck driver.F1 MERCENARY wrote:I don’t think he was right, but I respect his genuine opinion and emotion and I love that he acted off those emotions rather than offer commentary that wasn’t genuine or reflective of his state of mind.
I agree with you, but even if it wasn't a deliberate act, his actions have served to deflect from the fact he made a mistake as it has ensured majority of the press coverage is about is the controversy of the decision and not the fact that if he hadn't made the error then he would have won the race.DOLOMITE wrote:My gut feeling is that the outward show of frustration stemmed from the fact that deep down Vettel knew it was ultimately his mistake that cost him the race. Again. However you look at it - either he went off and Hamilton would have passed, or he went off and got the penalty losing him the place. Either way, he made the mistake and Hamilton capitalised. The frustration towards the stewards was just deflection.
I could be well off but that's my take.
He did park it in parc ferme. Where do you think all the other cars outside 1st-3rd go?dpastern wrote:Firstly, Vettel refused to park his car in parc ferme - that is an automatic disqualification from the race (FIA did SFA of course, being Ferrari).
He initially refused to go to the race podium by all accounts and had to be convinced by Ferrari management to do so.
His parc ferme behaviour was terrible and absolutely deserving of a post race penalty to be served at a follow up race of FIA's choice.
He's very lucky I'm not a steward.
I agree too. Overall I'm not sure that Vettel did it on purpose, more like red mist, as he is known to throw the toys out of the pram. This is why I found it funny, it didn't seem a calculated move. The positive side effect for him is that it deflected the attention from the fact that he messed up and also that Ferrari didn't tell Charles about the time penalty that could have cost him another place.Alienturnedhuman wrote:I agree with you, but even if it wasn't a deliberate act, his actions have served to deflect from the fact he made a mistake as it has ensured majority of the press coverage is about is the controversy of the decision and not the fact that if he hadn't made the error then he would have won the race.DOLOMITE wrote:My gut feeling is that the outward show of frustration stemmed from the fact that deep down Vettel knew it was ultimately his mistake that cost him the race. Again. However you look at it - either he went off and Hamilton would have passed, or he went off and got the penalty losing him the place. Either way, he made the mistake and Hamilton capitalised. The frustration towards the stewards was just deflection.
I could be well off but that's my take.
This. All day long.F1 MERCENARY wrote:What’s with all this political game nonsense?
This had absolutely NOTHING to do with politics and everything to do with a guy reacting genuinely to a situation where he felt wronged. Nothing more, nothing less, and he wasn’t trying to appeal to anyone’s sympathetic side either. He felt the penalty was BS and was letting them know he wasn’t the least bit pleased and felt like he should’ve been the winner.
End of story.
I don’t think he was right, but I respect his genuine opinion and emotion and I love that he acted off those emotions rather than offer commentary that wasn’t genuine or reflective of his state of mind. In the end both he and Hamilton can’t win in the eyes of the masses regardless of how they react, what they say, or their driving, so I don’t pay attention to any of it because it’s mostly nonsense and these guys are for real.
let me clarify - positions 1 to 3 park their cars in the podium parc ferme area, not the pit lane area. Vettel should be DSQ alone just for that imho.mcdo wrote:He did park it in parc ferme. Where do you think all the other cars outside 1st-3rd go?dpastern wrote:Firstly, Vettel refused to park his car in parc ferme - that is an automatic disqualification from the race (FIA did SFA of course, being Ferrari).
He initially refused to go to the race podium by all accounts and had to be convinced by Ferrari management to do so.
His parc ferme behaviour was terrible and absolutely deserving of a post race penalty to be served at a follow up race of FIA's choice.
He's very lucky I'm not a steward.
Why on earth should someone be DSQ for what is effectively an admin irregularity?dpastern wrote:let me clarify - positions 1 to 3 park their cars in the podium parc ferme area, not the pit lane area. Vettel should be DSQ alone just for that imho.mcdo wrote:He did park it in parc ferme. Where do you think all the other cars outside 1st-3rd go?dpastern wrote:Firstly, Vettel refused to park his car in parc ferme - that is an automatic disqualification from the race (FIA did SFA of course, being Ferrari).
He initially refused to go to the race podium by all accounts and had to be convinced by Ferrari management to do so.
His parc ferme behaviour was terrible and absolutely deserving of a post race penalty to be served at a follow up race of FIA's choice.
He's very lucky I'm not a steward.
I hope you were on the campaign trail to DSQ Jenson Button from Monaco 2009 also. Consistency is keydpastern wrote:let me clarify - positions 1 to 3 park their cars in the podium parc ferme area, not the pit lane area. Vettel should be DSQ alone just for that imho.mcdo wrote:He did park it in parc ferme. Where do you think all the other cars outside 1st-3rd go?dpastern wrote:Firstly, Vettel refused to park his car in parc ferme - that is an automatic disqualification from the race (FIA did SFA of course, being Ferrari).
He initially refused to go to the race podium by all accounts and had to be convinced by Ferrari management to do so.
His parc ferme behaviour was terrible and absolutely deserving of a post race penalty to be served at a follow up race of FIA's choice.
He's very lucky I'm not a steward.
Note to self, ignore this guy's honest opinions in the future.dpastern wrote:let me clarify - positions 1 to 3 park their cars in the podium parc ferme area, not the pit lane area. Vettel should be DSQ alone just for that imho.mcdo wrote:He did park it in parc ferme. Where do you think all the other cars outside 1st-3rd go?dpastern wrote:Firstly, Vettel refused to park his car in parc ferme - that is an automatic disqualification from the race (FIA did SFA of course, being Ferrari).
He initially refused to go to the race podium by all accounts and had to be convinced by Ferrari management to do so.
His parc ferme behaviour was terrible and absolutely deserving of a post race penalty to be served at a follow up race of FIA's choice.
He's very lucky I'm not a steward.
And Alonso from Valencia in 2012.mcdo wrote:I hope you were on the campaign trail to DSQ Jenson Button from Monaco 2009 also. Consistency is keydpastern wrote:let me clarify - positions 1 to 3 park their cars in the podium parc ferme area, not the pit lane area. Vettel should be DSQ alone just for that imho.mcdo wrote:He did park it in parc ferme. Where do you think all the other cars outside 1st-3rd go?dpastern wrote:Firstly, Vettel refused to park his car in parc ferme - that is an automatic disqualification from the race (FIA did SFA of course, being Ferrari).
He initially refused to go to the race podium by all accounts and had to be convinced by Ferrari management to do so.
His parc ferme behaviour was terrible and absolutely deserving of a post race penalty to be served at a follow up race of FIA's choice.
He's very lucky I'm not a steward.
Let me be clear, I completely disagree with dpastern and I think it would be ludicrous to DSQ Vettel for this, but they did state the DSQ was for Vettel's refusal to to park where he was supposed to, whereas Button accidentally parked in the wrong place due to the unique procedure at Monte Carlo, so the two events are not remotely comparable.mcdo wrote:I hope you were on the campaign trail to DSQ Jenson Button from Monaco 2009 also. Consistency is keydpastern wrote:let me clarify - positions 1 to 3 park their cars in the podium parc ferme area, not the pit lane area. Vettel should be DSQ alone just for that imho.mcdo wrote:He did park it in parc ferme. Where do you think all the other cars outside 1st-3rd go?dpastern wrote:Firstly, Vettel refused to park his car in parc ferme - that is an automatic disqualification from the race (FIA did SFA of course, being Ferrari).
He initially refused to go to the race podium by all accounts and had to be convinced by Ferrari management to do so.
His parc ferme behaviour was terrible and absolutely deserving of a post race penalty to be served at a follow up race of FIA's choice.
He's very lucky I'm not a steward.
Then we are all lucky you are not a steward.dpastern wrote:Firstly, Vettel refused to park his car in parc ferme - that is an automatic disqualification from the race (FIA did SFA of course, being Ferrari).
He initially refused to go to the race podium by all accounts and had to be convinced by Ferrari management to do so.
His parc ferme behaviour was terrible and absolutely deserving of a post race penalty to be served at a follow up race of FIA's choice.
He's very lucky I'm not a steward.
Hang on has this entire debacle not stemmed from Vettel getting penalised for a mistake in the first place? His on-track actions weren't deliberate and he was slapped with a penalty due to a black and white interpretation of the rulesAlienturnedhuman wrote:Let me be clear, I completely disagree with dpastern and I think it would be ludicrous to DSQ Vettel for this, but they did state the DSQ was for Vettel's refusal to to park where he was supposed to, whereas Button accidentally parked in the wrong place due to the unique procedure at Monte Carlo, so the two events are not remotely comparable.mcdo wrote:I hope you were on the campaign trail to DSQ Jenson Button from Monaco 2009 also. Consistency is keydpastern wrote:let me clarify - positions 1 to 3 park their cars in the podium parc ferme area, not the pit lane area. Vettel should be DSQ alone just for that imho.mcdo wrote:He did park it in parc ferme. Where do you think all the other cars outside 1st-3rd go?dpastern wrote:Firstly, Vettel refused to park his car in parc ferme - that is an automatic disqualification from the race (FIA did SFA of course, being Ferrari).
He initially refused to go to the race podium by all accounts and had to be convinced by Ferrari management to do so.
His parc ferme behaviour was terrible and absolutely deserving of a post race penalty to be served at a follow up race of FIA's choice.
He's very lucky I'm not a steward.
dpastern's position is not for the administration error, but rather the deliberate method of Vettel's protest and it is with precedent to penalise this sort of deliberate behavious given the sanctions given to Ferrari for failing to observe the correct podium procedure in 2002. So in that sense it is not ridiculous to take issue with it, even if the proposed penalty is clearly misfitting.
However, clearly it would be ridiculous to apply a racing penalty to ceremonial disconduct, meaning that if a sanction was believed to be needed for it then a financial one would be more appropriate. However, I feel that given the controversy caused by the penalty in the first place, it's better just to ignore it rather than draw more attention to it.
Vettel's actions were judged by the stewards to be deliberate.mcdo wrote:Hang on has this entire debacle not stemmed from Vettel getting penalised for a mistake in the first place? His on-track actions weren't deliberate and he was slapped with a penalty due to a black and white interpretation of the rulesAlienturnedhuman wrote:Let me be clear, I completely disagree with dpastern and I think it would be ludicrous to DSQ Vettel for this, but they did state the DSQ was for Vettel's refusal to to park where he was supposed to, whereas Button accidentally parked in the wrong place due to the unique procedure at Monte Carlo, so the two events are not remotely comparable.mcdo wrote:I hope you were on the campaign trail to DSQ Jenson Button from Monaco 2009 also. Consistency is keydpastern wrote:let me clarify - positions 1 to 3 park their cars in the podium parc ferme area, not the pit lane area. Vettel should be DSQ alone just for that imho.mcdo wrote: He did park it in parc ferme. Where do you think all the other cars outside 1st-3rd go?
dpastern's position is not for the administration error, but rather the deliberate method of Vettel's protest and it is with precedent to penalise this sort of deliberate behavious given the sanctions given to Ferrari for failing to observe the correct podium procedure in 2002. So in that sense it is not ridiculous to take issue with it, even if the proposed penalty is clearly misfitting.
However, clearly it would be ridiculous to apply a racing penalty to ceremonial disconduct, meaning that if a sanction was believed to be needed for it then a financial one would be more appropriate. However, I feel that given the controversy caused by the penalty in the first place, it's better just to ignore it rather than draw more attention to it.
By that same token if DSQs are on the table for parking in the wrong place post-chequered flag then if Vettel gets DSQ, then Button does too due to a black and white interpretation of the rules
Consistency is key