Vettel's post-Canada behaviour

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What did you think?

Acceptable: emotions were understandably running high
44
53%
Didn't go far enough: he should have boycotted the podium entirely
7
8%
Unacceptable: regardless of the rights/wrongs of the penalty
22
27%
Completely unacceptable: brings the sport into disrepute
4
5%
Other
6
7%
 
Total votes: 83

pokerman
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Re: Vettel's post-Canada behaviour

Post by pokerman »

Asphalt_World wrote:And now we have a third claiming he brought the sport in to disrepute! :lol: :lol: :lol:

My god, these people must have had minimal viewing of other sports over the years if they think this is so bad!
Well you always have the two extremes, some think that Vettel did nothing wrong. ;)
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sandman1347
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Re: Vettel's post-Canada behaviour

Post by sandman1347 »

F1Oz wrote:Clear that Vettel's drive was equal to Hamilton vs Ricciardo in 2016 - except Hamilton failed to make chicane (and should have been penalised) - and Hamilton could clearly have given room and decided not to - versus vettel who had little choice - I'm no vettel fan as my posts over time would show - but Hamilton SHOULD have been penaised (twice) - Vettel - dubious

Hamilton should be feeling awkward - he is clearly hypocritical -
No that is false. Watch this video which breaks down both incidents (as well as Max's incident in Japan last year) in detail. Let's see if you are willing to accept the facts.


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Exediron
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Re: Vettel's post-Canada behaviour

Post by Exediron »

sandman1347 wrote:
F1Oz wrote:Clear that Vettel's drive was equal to Hamilton vs Ricciardo in 2016 - except Hamilton failed to make chicane (and should have been penalised) - and Hamilton could clearly have given room and decided not to - versus vettel who had little choice - I'm no vettel fan as my posts over time would show - but Hamilton SHOULD have been penaised (twice) - Vettel - dubious

Hamilton should be feeling awkward - he is clearly hypocritical -
No that is false. Watch this video which breaks down both incidents (as well as Max's incident in Japan last year) in detail. Let's see if you are willing to accept the facts.
The crowding or lack thereof aside, I really think both drivers (Vettel in Canada, Hamilton in Monaco) shouldn't have been able to keep their position. If you cut the track and stay ahead, you've cheated.
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Re: Vettel's post-Canada behaviour

Post by sandman1347 »

Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
F1Oz wrote:Clear that Vettel's drive was equal to Hamilton vs Ricciardo in 2016 - except Hamilton failed to make chicane (and should have been penalised) - and Hamilton could clearly have given room and decided not to - versus vettel who had little choice - I'm no vettel fan as my posts over time would show - but Hamilton SHOULD have been penaised (twice) - Vettel - dubious

Hamilton should be feeling awkward - he is clearly hypocritical -
No that is false. Watch this video which breaks down both incidents (as well as Max's incident in Japan last year) in detail. Let's see if you are willing to accept the facts.
The crowding or lack thereof aside, I really think both drivers (Vettel in Canada, Hamilton in Monaco) shouldn't have been able to keep their position. If you cut the track and stay ahead, you've cheated.
As the video shows clearly; Hamilton rejoined the track safely and without causing another driver to take avoiding action. That's what the rule says you must do. When Vettel rejoined the track, he forced another driver to take avoiding action. It's really that simple. There's a debate to be had about not liking the rule but saying the stewards got it wrong is just not correct.

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Re: Vettel's post-Canada behaviour

Post by Exediron »

sandman1347 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
F1Oz wrote:Clear that Vettel's drive was equal to Hamilton vs Ricciardo in 2016 - except Hamilton failed to make chicane (and should have been penalised) - and Hamilton could clearly have given room and decided not to - versus vettel who had little choice - I'm no vettel fan as my posts over time would show - but Hamilton SHOULD have been penaised (twice) - Vettel - dubious

Hamilton should be feeling awkward - he is clearly hypocritical -
No that is false. Watch this video which breaks down both incidents (as well as Max's incident in Japan last year) in detail. Let's see if you are willing to accept the facts.
The crowding or lack thereof aside, I really think both drivers (Vettel in Canada, Hamilton in Monaco) shouldn't have been able to keep their position. If you cut the track and stay ahead, you've cheated.
As the video shows clearly; Hamilton rejoined the track safely and without causing another driver to take avoiding action. That's what the rule says you must do. When Vettel rejoined the track, he forced another driver to take avoiding action. It's really that simple. There's a debate to be had about not liking the rule but saying the stewards got it wrong is just not correct.
And the debate about the rule being rubbish is what I'm having, not the one about the stewards' ruling.

Case in point, Rosberg in Canada 2015. He rejoined the track without forcing anyone to take evasive action, but he blatantly cut the chicane and not only gained a position, he set fastest lap. Is this somehow correct racing just because he didn't threaten to hit anyone else? No, of course not. If you cut the track because you couldn't make the corner, you should lose something for it. If you did it while actively defending your position, you should lose that position.
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pendulumeffect
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Re: Vettel's post-Canada behaviour

Post by pendulumeffect »

F1 would be more boring without Vettel.

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Re: Vettel's post-Canada behaviour

Post by pokerman »

Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
F1Oz wrote:Clear that Vettel's drive was equal to Hamilton vs Ricciardo in 2016 - except Hamilton failed to make chicane (and should have been penalised) - and Hamilton could clearly have given room and decided not to - versus vettel who had little choice - I'm no vettel fan as my posts over time would show - but Hamilton SHOULD have been penaised (twice) - Vettel - dubious

Hamilton should be feeling awkward - he is clearly hypocritical -
No that is false. Watch this video which breaks down both incidents (as well as Max's incident in Japan last year) in detail. Let's see if you are willing to accept the facts.
The crowding or lack thereof aside, I really think both drivers (Vettel in Canada, Hamilton in Monaco) shouldn't have been able to keep their position. If you cut the track and stay ahead, you've cheated.
That's interesting because in Monaco 2016 Massa totally cut the chicane as in straight lined it when under pressure from another car but wasn't penalised, that kind of comes under do that again and you will be penalised, Vettel didn't get penalised for cutting the chicane in Canada.
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pokerman
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Re: Vettel's post-Canada behaviour

Post by pokerman »

Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
F1Oz wrote:Clear that Vettel's drive was equal to Hamilton vs Ricciardo in 2016 - except Hamilton failed to make chicane (and should have been penalised) - and Hamilton could clearly have given room and decided not to - versus vettel who had little choice - I'm no vettel fan as my posts over time would show - but Hamilton SHOULD have been penaised (twice) - Vettel - dubious

Hamilton should be feeling awkward - he is clearly hypocritical -
No that is false. Watch this video which breaks down both incidents (as well as Max's incident in Japan last year) in detail. Let's see if you are willing to accept the facts.
The crowding or lack thereof aside, I really think both drivers (Vettel in Canada, Hamilton in Monaco) shouldn't have been able to keep their position. If you cut the track and stay ahead, you've cheated.
As the video shows clearly; Hamilton rejoined the track safely and without causing another driver to take avoiding action. That's what the rule says you must do. When Vettel rejoined the track, he forced another driver to take avoiding action. It's really that simple. There's a debate to be had about not liking the rule but saying the stewards got it wrong is just not correct.
And the debate about the rule being rubbish is what I'm having, not the one about the stewards' ruling.

Case in point, Rosberg in Canada 2015. He rejoined the track without forcing anyone to take evasive action, but he blatantly cut the chicane and not only gained a position, he set fastest lap. Is this somehow correct racing just because he didn't threaten to hit anyone else? No, of course not. If you cut the track because you couldn't make the corner, you should lose something for it. If you did it while actively defending your position, you should lose that position.
Nominally drivers get a warning for doing that, do it again and you get penalised.
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j man
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Re: Vettel's post-Canada behaviour

Post by j man »

Asphalt_World wrote:And now we have a third claiming he brought the sport in to disrepute! :lol: :lol: :lol:

My god, these people must have had minimal viewing of other sports over the years if they think this is so bad!
The problem is not so much what Vettel did, it's what it might lead to in the future. I don't want any of this rubbish in F1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buwrTL3XRFo

Sure it's a long, long way from what Vettel has done but it demonstrates what you can end up with when a culture of disrespect to the officials is condoned. When some impressionable youngsters in karting watch Vettel having a tantrum or telling the race director to eff off you can be sure that some of them will do the same. And then some of them will end up in F1 someday with the same attitude, and it all snowballs from there. We should be very wary of normalising that sort of behaviour.

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Re: Vettel's post-Canada behaviour

Post by Siao7 »

j man wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:And now we have a third claiming he brought the sport in to disrepute! :lol: :lol: :lol:

My god, these people must have had minimal viewing of other sports over the years if they think this is so bad!
The problem is not so much what Vettel did, it's what it might lead to in the future. I don't want any of this rubbish in F1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buwrTL3XRFo

Sure it's a long, long way from what Vettel has done but it demonstrates what you can end up with when a culture of disrespect to the officials is condoned. When some impressionable youngsters in karting watch Vettel having a tantrum or telling the race director to eff off you can be sure that some of them will do the same. And then some of them will end up in F1 someday with the same attitude, and it all snowballs from there. We should be very wary of normalising that sort of behaviour.
That's quite a jump from switching the boards in protest to physically attacking/harming the stewards

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Re: Vettel's post-Canada behaviour

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

j man wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:And now we have a third claiming he brought the sport in to disrepute! :lol: :lol: :lol:

My god, these people must have had minimal viewing of other sports over the years if they think this is so bad!
The problem is not so much what Vettel did, it's what it might lead to in the future. I don't want any of this rubbish in F1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buwrTL3XRFo

Sure it's a long, long way from what Vettel has done but it demonstrates what you can end up with when a culture of disrespect to the officials is condoned. When some impressionable youngsters in karting watch Vettel having a tantrum or telling the race director to eff off you can be sure that some of them will do the same. And then some of them will end up in F1 someday with the same attitude, and it all snowballs from there. We should be very wary of normalising that sort of behaviour.
To be honest, if this is something that could become a problem, then the first blame should be with Liberty for broadcasting the messages in the first place. It's unreasonable to expect drivers high on adrenaline not to radio in expletive riddled messages when they feel they have been wronged, however if it is considered this behaviour could encourage younger drivers to be influenced by it then Liberty shouldn't be choosing to broadcast it.

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Re: Vettel's post-Canada behaviour

Post by Asphalt_World »

j man wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:And now we have a third claiming he brought the sport in to disrepute! :lol: :lol: :lol:

My god, these people must have had minimal viewing of other sports over the years if they think this is so bad!
The problem is not so much what Vettel did, it's what it might lead to in the future. I don't want any of this rubbish in F1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buwrTL3XRFo

Sure it's a long, long way from what Vettel has done but it demonstrates what you can end up with when a culture of disrespect to the officials is condoned. When some impressionable youngsters in karting watch Vettel having a tantrum or telling the race director to eff off you can be sure that some of them will do the same. And then some of them will end up in F1 someday with the same attitude, and it all snowballs from there. We should be very wary of normalising that sort of behaviour.
Vettel didn't do or say anything whatsoever that brought the sport in to disrepute. I've seen drivers have a go at each other post race or post crash. I've seen other things too.
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Re: Vettel's post-Canada behaviour

Post by j man »

Siao7 wrote:
j man wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:And now we have a third claiming he brought the sport in to disrepute! :lol: :lol: :lol:

My god, these people must have had minimal viewing of other sports over the years if they think this is so bad!
The problem is not so much what Vettel did, it's what it might lead to in the future. I don't want any of this rubbish in F1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buwrTL3XRFo

Sure it's a long, long way from what Vettel has done but it demonstrates what you can end up with when a culture of disrespect to the officials is condoned. When some impressionable youngsters in karting watch Vettel having a tantrum or telling the race director to eff off you can be sure that some of them will do the same. And then some of them will end up in F1 someday with the same attitude, and it all snowballs from there. We should be very wary of normalising that sort of behaviour.
That's quite a jump from switching the boards in protest to physically attacking/harming the stewards
It is yes, and is a rare event even in football (though more common at amateur level where the eyes of the world are not watching). I was more trying to highlight my main frustration with football which is the constant sight of players haranguing the referee when any decision is made against their team.

Like I said previously I don't have a massively strong opinion on the matter, but I don't think it is the sort of behaviour that should be encouraged. What Vettel did in Canada was harmless, but I was trying to highlight that if gone unchecked these things can gradually escalate over the years until you do get the situation football finds itself in where a culture of disrespect has taken hold that cannot be stamped out.

Plenty of sports manage to be commercially successful without having to resort to this sort of pantomime to generate interest. Rugby, for instance.

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Re: Vettel's post-Canada behaviour

Post by Siao7 »

j man wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
j man wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:And now we have a third claiming he brought the sport in to disrepute! :lol: :lol: :lol:

My god, these people must have had minimal viewing of other sports over the years if they think this is so bad!
The problem is not so much what Vettel did, it's what it might lead to in the future. I don't want any of this rubbish in F1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buwrTL3XRFo

Sure it's a long, long way from what Vettel has done but it demonstrates what you can end up with when a culture of disrespect to the officials is condoned. When some impressionable youngsters in karting watch Vettel having a tantrum or telling the race director to eff off you can be sure that some of them will do the same. And then some of them will end up in F1 someday with the same attitude, and it all snowballs from there. We should be very wary of normalising that sort of behaviour.
That's quite a jump from switching the boards in protest to physically attacking/harming the stewards
It is yes, and is a rare event even in football (though more common at amateur level where the eyes of the world are not watching). I was more trying to highlight my main frustration with football which is the constant sight of players haranguing the referee when any decision is made against their team.

Like I said previously I don't have a massively strong opinion on the matter, but I don't think it is the sort of behaviour that should be encouraged. What Vettel did in Canada was harmless, but I was trying to highlight that if gone unchecked these things can gradually escalate over the years until you do get the situation football finds itself in where a culture of disrespect has taken hold that cannot be stamped out.

Plenty of sports manage to be commercially successful without having to resort to this sort of pantomime to generate interest. Rugby, for instance.
Yeah, playing sports myself I agree that the adrenaline is high and eyes get red misted when you are pouring your whole soul into something just to see someone demolish it with a decision you do not agree. I think that the difference with F1 is that they do not have the "refs" in front of them like in football, tennis or basketball, so they will not just hound them after a decision. So in this way the F1 stewards are protected, normally the drivers cool down way before they have an interaction (if at all) with them.

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Re: Vettel's post-Canada behaviour

Post by mcdo »

pendulumeffect wrote:F1 would be more boring without Vettel.
I'd say that for all of the top drivers. It's more boring now without Alonso
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