2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

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sandman1347
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by sandman1347 »

bourbon19 wrote:
TheBlackFlag wrote:Stewards ruined the race for the fans
That's the bottom line. Hamilton was getting closer and closer, first time we had a heart stopping race in ages between these two. And then right when it all was going to come to a head, they put the brakes on with a controversial call - you could argue deserves a penalty, but also, and just as fairly argue that it does not deserve a penalty. But they chose to go with the penalty, in this particular situation, 2 lead drivers, in the lead teams, for the lead of the race. The race ended at that moment. The only person racing at the front was Charles and fans (and commentators) were really too focused on the decision of the stewards to care much at all.

You can't ask for a poorer decision. This is fundamentally the problem. This is what makes it a ridiculous and ignorant call by the stewards and bad for the sport.
So stewards are now supposed to worry about the entertainment value rather than simply applying the rules then?

da4an1qu1
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by da4an1qu1 »

TedStriker wrote:
F1nut wrote:Clearly the F1 racing stewards in Canada cannot tell the difference between a "racing-incident" and a deliberate action - for which the "Un-safe re-entry rule" was enacted............ : (

Sad day for F1 fans everywhere.
Does the penalty require intent? Genuine question.
No. Which is why consistency with the decisions is key. That always ends up being the argument.

j man
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by j man »

JN23 wrote:I know the penalty is the big talking point and understandably so but the rest... where was Bottas' pace for most of the race?

Great weekend for Renault, did not expect this to be a strong track for them. A disappointing day for Mclaren as they had a good car this weekend.

Gasly :thumbdown:

A great job by Stroll to get into the points. His one lap pace is bad but he is good at looking after the tyres and that showed today.
It was mentioned at Monaco that Renault were able to run their engines at full power for the first time since the failures in Bahrain. Obviously this didn't bring much benefit at Monaco, but we've seen the effect of it now and it looks promising for the rest of the season. They're not far off mixing it with Red Bull.

Agree on Stroll, I'm normally a big critic of his but he was the standout driver today.

Altair
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Altair »

sandman1347 wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:
TheBlackFlag wrote:Stewards ruined the race for the fans
That's the bottom line. Hamilton was getting closer and closer, first time we had a heart stopping race in ages between these two. And then right when it all was going to come to a head, they put the brakes on with a controversial call - you could argue deserves a penalty, but also, and just as fairly argue that it does not deserve a penalty. But they chose to go with the penalty, in this particular situation, 2 lead drivers, in the lead teams, for the lead of the race. The race ended at that moment. The only person racing at the front was Charles and fans (and commentators) were really too focused on the decision of the stewards to care much at all.

You can't ask for a poorer decision. This is fundamentally the problem. This is what makes it a ridiculous and ignorant call by the stewards and bad for the sport.
So stewards are now supposed to worry about the entertainment value rather than simply applying the rules then?
No.

They should follow the rules to the letter as the sport goes into the trash can.

cmberry20
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by cmberry20 »

It amazing how many people have said in the past the Hamiltons penalty in Spa 2008 was justified yet are screaming bloody murder about this one.

KingVoid
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by KingVoid »

sandman1347 wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:
TheBlackFlag wrote:Stewards ruined the race for the fans
That's the bottom line. Hamilton was getting closer and closer, first time we had a heart stopping race in ages between these two. And then right when it all was going to come to a head, they put the brakes on with a controversial call - you could argue deserves a penalty, but also, and just as fairly argue that it does not deserve a penalty. But they chose to go with the penalty, in this particular situation, 2 lead drivers, in the lead teams, for the lead of the race. The race ended at that moment. The only person racing at the front was Charles and fans (and commentators) were really too focused on the decision of the stewards to care much at all.

You can't ask for a poorer decision. This is fundamentally the problem. This is what makes it a ridiculous and ignorant call by the stewards and bad for the sport.
So stewards are now supposed to worry about the entertainment value rather than simply applying the rules then?
No, it was just a dumb decision that is inconsistent with recent decisions of similar incidents.

Option or Prime
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Option or Prime »

sandman1347 wrote:
TedStriker wrote:Will be interesting to read the official ruling. I think we can all agree on that.
It won't matter. 95% of F1 fans are incapable of looking at things impartially. Most of the backlash is motivated by the fact that Hamilton and Mercedes have been winning so much and a lot of fans want that to end. If the roles were reversed and Hamilton were given that penalty for doing the same thing; the same people complaining right now would be supportive of the penalty.
Have to agree with this, ask yourself who is Seb furious at? the stewards or himself. If he stays on the track its a Ferrari win.

sandman1347
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by sandman1347 »

cmberry20 wrote:It amazing how many people have said in the past the Hamiltons penalty in Spa 2008 was justified yet are screaming bloody murder about this one.
I don't think the two incidents are comparable actually.

Caserole of Nonsense
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Caserole of Nonsense »

sandman1347 wrote:
TedStriker wrote:Will be interesting to read the official ruling. I think we can all agree on that.
It won't matter. 95% of F1 fans are incapable of looking at things impartially. Most of the backlash is motivated by the fact that Hamilton and Mercedes have been winning so much and a lot of fans want that to end. If the roles were reversed and Hamilton were given that penalty for doing the same thing; the same people complaining right now would be supportive of the penalty.
im impartial. i dislike them both in equal amounts. even though i think no penalty, i dont buy for one second that vettel was as out of control as he and some others make out. he knew if he could drift across the track he could block hamilton. i just dont think it was naughty or blatant enough to deserve a penalty.

sandman1347
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by sandman1347 »

KingVoid wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:
TheBlackFlag wrote:Stewards ruined the race for the fans
That's the bottom line. Hamilton was getting closer and closer, first time we had a heart stopping race in ages between these two. And then right when it all was going to come to a head, they put the brakes on with a controversial call - you could argue deserves a penalty, but also, and just as fairly argue that it does not deserve a penalty. But they chose to go with the penalty, in this particular situation, 2 lead drivers, in the lead teams, for the lead of the race. The race ended at that moment. The only person racing at the front was Charles and fans (and commentators) were really too focused on the decision of the stewards to care much at all.

You can't ask for a poorer decision. This is fundamentally the problem. This is what makes it a ridiculous and ignorant call by the stewards and bad for the sport.
So stewards are now supposed to worry about the entertainment value rather than simply applying the rules then?
No, it was just a dumb decision that is inconsistent with recent decisions of similar incidents.
The incident most recent and similar to this was Max running off in Japan last year and the penalty is 100% consistent with the one Max received.

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Black_Flag_11
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

sandman1347 wrote:
TedStriker wrote:Will be interesting to read the official ruling. I think we can all agree on that.
It won't matter. 95% of F1 fans are incapable of looking at things impartially. Most of the backlash is motivated by the fact that Hamilton and Mercedes have been winning so much and a lot of fans want that to end. If the roles were reversed and Hamilton were given that penalty for doing the same thing; the same people complaining right now would be supportive of the penalty.
Obviously untrue, the vast majority of fans and pundits, including all ex-driver's I've seen express an opinion, agree it wasnt a penalty.

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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by j man »

sandman1347 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:
TheBlackFlag wrote:Stewards ruined the race for the fans
That's the bottom line. Hamilton was getting closer and closer, first time we had a heart stopping race in ages between these two. And then right when it all was going to come to a head, they put the brakes on with a controversial call - you could argue deserves a penalty, but also, and just as fairly argue that it does not deserve a penalty. But they chose to go with the penalty, in this particular situation, 2 lead drivers, in the lead teams, for the lead of the race. The race ended at that moment. The only person racing at the front was Charles and fans (and commentators) were really too focused on the decision of the stewards to care much at all.

You can't ask for a poorer decision. This is fundamentally the problem. This is what makes it a ridiculous and ignorant call by the stewards and bad for the sport.
So stewards are now supposed to worry about the entertainment value rather than simply applying the rules then?
No, it was just a dumb decision that is inconsistent with recent decisions of similar incidents.
The incident most recent and similar to this was Max running off in Japan last year and the penalty is 100% consistent with the one Max received.
I don't agree with that actually. There is a key difference between the two incidents that is intent.

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Invade
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Invade »

Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
TedStriker wrote:Will be interesting to read the official ruling. I think we can all agree on that.
It won't matter. 95% of F1 fans are incapable of looking at things impartially. Most of the backlash is motivated by the fact that Hamilton and Mercedes have been winning so much and a lot of fans want that to end. If the roles were reversed and Hamilton were given that penalty for doing the same thing; the same people complaining right now would be supportive of the penalty.
im impartial. i dislike them both in equal amounts. even though i think no penalty, i dont buy for one second that vettel was as out of control as he and some others make out. he knew if he could drift across the track he could block hamilton. i just dont think it was naughty or blatant enough to deserve a penalty.

He was not so out of control as far as I could see. It looked to me like he tried his damned best to drive through his error to maintain position. He could have been far tamer and safer but given up position. Happy to be proven wrong.

BMWSauber84
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by BMWSauber84 »

One man who might be grateful for the hullabaloo is Gasly who had another really poor weekend. Renault were vastly improved but Gasly should have at the very least had 6th place.

It was a really poor showing from Bottas. He was indecisive in his battles with the Renault drivers. He is watching his title hopes vanish fast.

Stroll can be very proud of his performance. I thought his points in Aus were more down to the luck of the train behind Antonio G. Here though he produced surely his best drive so far after some really quite ragged races.

A small point about strategy. Verstappen was put on mediums for his second stint. Had he been put on softs instead then not only would he have been able to try for fastest lap, but Bottas may have lost the window to make a freebie stop.

mikeyg123
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

cmberry20 wrote:It amazing how many people have said in the past the Hamiltons penalty in Spa 2008 was justified yet are screaming bloody murder about this one.
I massively disagree with both but they're penalties for totally different things. I don't see why someone couldn't be Pro Spa penalty but anti this one.

You may as well say "It's amazing how many people have said in the past that it's fine for women to get abortions yet are screaming bloody murder about this penalty"

The two things are totally unrelated.

Fuji 2008 on the other hand...

sandman1347
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by sandman1347 »

Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
TedStriker wrote:Will be interesting to read the official ruling. I think we can all agree on that.
It won't matter. 95% of F1 fans are incapable of looking at things impartially. Most of the backlash is motivated by the fact that Hamilton and Mercedes have been winning so much and a lot of fans want that to end. If the roles were reversed and Hamilton were given that penalty for doing the same thing; the same people complaining right now would be supportive of the penalty.
im impartial. i dislike them both in equal amounts. even though i think no penalty, i dont buy for one second that vettel was as out of control as he and some others make out. he knew if he could drift across the track he could block hamilton. i just dont think it was naughty or blatant enough to deserve a penalty.
And neither do I; which is why I think the penalty was correct. You cannot allow him to actually profit from running off onto the grass like that. Making that mistake with Lewis less than a second behind him should have cost him the position.

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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

Invade wrote:
Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
TedStriker wrote:Will be interesting to read the official ruling. I think we can all agree on that.
It won't matter. 95% of F1 fans are incapable of looking at things impartially. Most of the backlash is motivated by the fact that Hamilton and Mercedes have been winning so much and a lot of fans want that to end. If the roles were reversed and Hamilton were given that penalty for doing the same thing; the same people complaining right now would be supportive of the penalty.
im impartial. i dislike them both in equal amounts. even though i think no penalty, i dont buy for one second that vettel was as out of control as he and some others make out. he knew if he could drift across the track he could block hamilton. i just dont think it was naughty or blatant enough to deserve a penalty.

He was not so out of control as far as I could see. It looked to me like he tried his damned best to drive through his error to maintain position. He could have been far tamer and safer but given up position. Happy to be proven wrong.
Well you saw he had to correct a snap of overseer? So surely that is proof that he wasn't in control?

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bourbon19
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by bourbon19 »

sandman1347 wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:
TheBlackFlag wrote:Stewards ruined the race for the fans
That's the bottom line. Hamilton was getting closer and closer, first time we had a heart stopping race in ages between these two. And then right when it all was going to come to a head, they put the brakes on with a controversial call - you could argue deserves a penalty, but also, and just as fairly argue that it does not deserve a penalty. But they chose to go with the penalty, in this particular situation, 2 lead drivers, in the lead teams, for the lead of the race. The race ended at that moment. The only person racing at the front was Charles and fans (and commentators) were really too focused on the decision of the stewards to care much at all.

You can't ask for a poorer decision. This is fundamentally the problem. This is what makes it a ridiculous and ignorant call by the stewards and bad for the sport.
So stewards are now supposed to worry about the entertainment value rather than simply applying the rules then?

In a controversial call that could go either way - where you have the lead drivers of lead teams vying for the lead??? Yes. Do you actually disagree? Wouldn't you rather watch Hamilton pass for the lead? He was on it you know. And controversial means they would still be applying the rules, just going the other way.
Last edited by bourbon19 on Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cmberry20
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by cmberry20 »

sandman1347 wrote:
cmberry20 wrote:It amazing how many people have said in the past the Hamiltons penalty in Spa 2008 was justified yet are screaming bloody murder about this one.
I don't think the two incidents are comparable actually.
My point being is that both penalties have unanimously been panned by fans and pundits but if you are fan of the team that wins it makes it OK.

mikeyg123
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

sandman1347 wrote:
Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
TedStriker wrote:Will be interesting to read the official ruling. I think we can all agree on that.
It won't matter. 95% of F1 fans are incapable of looking at things impartially. Most of the backlash is motivated by the fact that Hamilton and Mercedes have been winning so much and a lot of fans want that to end. If the roles were reversed and Hamilton were given that penalty for doing the same thing; the same people complaining right now would be supportive of the penalty.
im impartial. i dislike them both in equal amounts. even though i think no penalty, i dont buy for one second that vettel was as out of control as he and some others make out. he knew if he could drift across the track he could block hamilton. i just dont think it was naughty or blatant enough to deserve a penalty.
And neither do I; which is why I think the penalty was correct. You cannot allow him to actually profit from running off onto the grass like that. Making that mistake with Lewis less than a second behind him should have cost him the position.
Then penalise him for cutting the track and gaining an advantage.

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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Blake »

cmberry20 wrote:It amazing how many people have said in the past the Hamiltons penalty in Spa 2008 was justified yet are screaming bloody murder about this one.
It's amazing how many people who screamed bloody murder about Hamilton' penalty in Spa 2008 are in agreement with the penalty this time.
;)
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sandman1347
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by sandman1347 »

Black_Flag_11 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
TedStriker wrote:Will be interesting to read the official ruling. I think we can all agree on that.
It won't matter. 95% of F1 fans are incapable of looking at things impartially. Most of the backlash is motivated by the fact that Hamilton and Mercedes have been winning so much and a lot of fans want that to end. If the roles were reversed and Hamilton were given that penalty for doing the same thing; the same people complaining right now would be supportive of the penalty.
Obviously untrue, the vast majority of fans and pundits, including all ex-driver's I've seen express an opinion, agree it wasnt a penalty.
First of all; let's wait and see before we start making proclamations about what the "vast majority" of people think. I don't think you have enough information to make that claim. Secondly; TV pundits are primarily speaking from the perspective of wanting to see the battle unfold between Hamilton and Vettel like we all did. Even neutral fans are motivated by a desire for entertainment. Let me ask you this; was the penalty Verstappen received in Japan last year warranted?

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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Altair »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Invade wrote:
Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
TedStriker wrote:Will be interesting to read the official ruling. I think we can all agree on that.
It won't matter. 95% of F1 fans are incapable of looking at things impartially. Most of the backlash is motivated by the fact that Hamilton and Mercedes have been winning so much and a lot of fans want that to end. If the roles were reversed and Hamilton were given that penalty for doing the same thing; the same people complaining right now would be supportive of the penalty.
im impartial. i dislike them both in equal amounts. even though i think no penalty, i dont buy for one second that vettel was as out of control as he and some others make out. he knew if he could drift across the track he could block hamilton. i just dont think it was naughty or blatant enough to deserve a penalty.

He was not so out of control as far as I could see. It looked to me like he tried his damned best to drive through his error to maintain position. He could have been far tamer and safer but given up position. Happy to be proven wrong.
Well you saw he had to correct a snap of overseer? So surely that is proof that he wasn't in control?
The stewarts clearly would prefer that if in that situation to simply wreck the car trying to prevent coming close to the other driver.

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bourbon19
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by bourbon19 »

cmberry20 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
cmberry20 wrote:It amazing how many people have said in the past the Hamiltons penalty in Spa 2008 was justified yet are screaming bloody murder about this one.
I don't think the two incidents are comparable actually.
My point being is that both penalties have unanimously been panned by fans and pundits but if you are fan of the team that wins it makes it OK.
That is not true. Fans of Verstappen that hate both Ferrari and Red Bull have decided positive opinions on what happened today - I live with one. I would not rationalize the decision for the stewards in that way. I hold them completely guilty of ruining the race.
Last edited by bourbon19 on Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

shay550
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by shay550 »

Lewis’s race pace was great - really pushed Seb all the way. He has a firm grip of the title with only 7 races gone.

sandman1347
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by sandman1347 »

cmberry20 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
cmberry20 wrote:It amazing how many people have said in the past the Hamiltons penalty in Spa 2008 was justified yet are screaming bloody murder about this one.
I don't think the two incidents are comparable actually.
My point being is that both penalties have unanimously been panned by fans and pundits but if you are fan of the team that wins it makes it OK.
The main issue with the 2008 penalty was that Kimi crashed out of the race unassisted just seconds later and so, even if you determine that Hamilton made an illegal overtake on Kimi, Kimi wasn't even there to get the position back. That penalty ended up giving the win to Massa; who was 20 seconds behind and who also happened to be Hamilton's main title rival.

So I wouldn't conflate these two scenarios. They don't have much in common (other than not being popular).

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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by AravJ »

I was backing Lewis for the win but the decision was wrong and the win hollow.
Why don't they just have permanent stewards. We are never going to have consistency if they keep changing them at every race. It's clear that such a job needs experience. The stewards made a mistake today but they will never learn because they are never the same people.

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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Blake »

sandman1347 wrote:
TedStriker wrote:Will be interesting to read the official ruling. I think we can all agree on that.
It won't matter. 95% of F1 fans are incapable of looking at things impartially. Most of the backlash is motivated by the fact that Hamilton and Mercedes have been winning so much and a lot of fans want that to end. If the roles were reversed and Hamilton were given that penalty for doing the same thing; the same people complaining right now would be supportive of the penalty.
Indeed. And you would have been complaining, sandman. You are no more neutral than I am!
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sandman1347
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by sandman1347 »

mikeyg123 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
TedStriker wrote:Will be interesting to read the official ruling. I think we can all agree on that.
It won't matter. 95% of F1 fans are incapable of looking at things impartially. Most of the backlash is motivated by the fact that Hamilton and Mercedes have been winning so much and a lot of fans want that to end. If the roles were reversed and Hamilton were given that penalty for doing the same thing; the same people complaining right now would be supportive of the penalty.
im impartial. i dislike them both in equal amounts. even though i think no penalty, i dont buy for one second that vettel was as out of control as he and some others make out. he knew if he could drift across the track he could block hamilton. i just dont think it was naughty or blatant enough to deserve a penalty.
And neither do I; which is why I think the penalty was correct. You cannot allow him to actually profit from running off onto the grass like that. Making that mistake with Lewis less than a second behind him should have cost him the position.
Then penalise him for cutting the track and gaining an advantage.
He didn't gain an advantage. It was slower to go through the grass there. He DID rejoin unsafely.

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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

sandman1347 wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
TedStriker wrote:Will be interesting to read the official ruling. I think we can all agree on that.
It won't matter. 95% of F1 fans are incapable of looking at things impartially. Most of the backlash is motivated by the fact that Hamilton and Mercedes have been winning so much and a lot of fans want that to end. If the roles were reversed and Hamilton were given that penalty for doing the same thing; the same people complaining right now would be supportive of the penalty.
Obviously untrue, the vast majority of fans and pundits, including all ex-driver's I've seen express an opinion, agree it wasnt a penalty.
First of all; let's wait and see before we start making proclamations about what the "vast majority" of people think. I don't think you have enough information to make that claim. Secondly; TV pundits are primarily speaking from the perspective of wanting to see the battle unfold between Hamilton and Vettel like we all did. Even neutral fans are motivated by a desire for entertainment. Let me ask you this; was the penalty Verstappen received in Japan last year warranted?
Nope the ex driver pundits clearly laid out why they dont feel it warranted a penalty and nowhere did they say 'because it would be better for the show'. You're being deliberately disingenuous there.

Wait for what exactly? Most likely the majority of the people who will watch the race will have already seen it and even if they haven't I see no reason to assume their opinion would be dramatically different to those who have seen it and the opinion I've seen from here to social media to the fans at the track is easily 90%+ of the opinion that penalty was nonsense.

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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

sandman1347 wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
TedStriker wrote:Will be interesting to read the official ruling. I think we can all agree on that.
It won't matter. 95% of F1 fans are incapable of looking at things impartially. Most of the backlash is motivated by the fact that Hamilton and Mercedes have been winning so much and a lot of fans want that to end. If the roles were reversed and Hamilton were given that penalty for doing the same thing; the same people complaining right now would be supportive of the penalty.
Obviously untrue, the vast majority of fans and pundits, including all ex-driver's I've seen express an opinion, agree it wasnt a penalty.
First of all; let's wait and see before we start making proclamations about what the "vast majority" of people think. I don't think you have enough information to make that claim. Secondly; TV pundits are primarily speaking from the perspective of wanting to see the battle unfold between Hamilton and Vettel like we all did. Even neutral fans are motivated by a desire for entertainment. Let me ask you this; was the penalty Verstappen received in Japan last year warranted?
Have a look on Twitter mate.

I've just had a scan and seen Mansell, Andretti, Wurz, Hill and VDG all raging against it.

I'm yet to find an ex driver who thinks it's a penalty.

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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by sandman1347 »

Blake wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
TedStriker wrote:Will be interesting to read the official ruling. I think we can all agree on that.
It won't matter. 95% of F1 fans are incapable of looking at things impartially. Most of the backlash is motivated by the fact that Hamilton and Mercedes have been winning so much and a lot of fans want that to end. If the roles were reversed and Hamilton were given that penalty for doing the same thing; the same people complaining right now would be supportive of the penalty.
Indeed. And you would have been complaining, sandman. You are no more neutral than I am!
I wish I could say that I'm surprised to hear unsubstantiated nonsense from you but I've come to expect it.

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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by JN23 »

mikeyg123 wrote:
cmberry20 wrote:It amazing how many people have said in the past the Hamiltons penalty in Spa 2008 was justified yet are screaming bloody murder about this one.
I massively disagree with both but they're penalties for totally different things. I don't see why someone couldn't be Pro Spa penalty but anti this one.

You may as well say "It's amazing how many people have said in the past that it's fine for women to get abortions yet are screaming bloody murder about this penalty"

The two things are totally unrelated.

Fuji 2008 on the other hand...
By Fuji 2008 do you mean Hamilton's penalty for turn one?

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F1nut
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by F1nut »

TedStriker wrote:
F1nut wrote:Clearly the F1 racing stewards in Canada cannot tell the difference between a "racing-incident" and a deliberate action - for which the "Un-safe re-entry rule" was enacted............ : (

Sad day for F1 fans everywhere.
Does the penalty require intent? Genuine question.
Intent IMHO, is always subjective and subject to interpretation - "if" this incident had occurred at a part of the track where there was a run-off area and the driver has a choice of a safer re-entry than he executed at the time - then I would have no issues at all.

The question here was what would Lewis or any other driver have done given the confines at this unique track location where the "incident" occurs, had they been placed in Seb's seat. Just my opinion here again, but the only mistake Vettle made was overlooking the lack of downforce his rear wing was going to get as he caught up to the two back markers he was about to lap, which given the tunneled affect at this particular part of the track; I feel led to his demise and caught him out unexpectedly.

mikeyg123
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

JN23 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
cmberry20 wrote:It amazing how many people have said in the past the Hamiltons penalty in Spa 2008 was justified yet are screaming bloody murder about this one.
I massively disagree with both but they're penalties for totally different things. I don't see why someone couldn't be Pro Spa penalty but anti this one.

You may as well say "It's amazing how many people have said in the past that it's fine for women to get abortions yet are screaming bloody murder about this penalty"

The two things are totally unrelated.

Fuji 2008 on the other hand...
By Fuji 2008 do you mean Hamilton's penalty for turn one?
I do. In my top 3 of ridiculous F1 penalties.

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bourbon19
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by bourbon19 »

Oh well, I suppose it energized me enough about F1 to make me want to post. So that is something. It was a bad call, bad for the sport, but as usual, I am not going anywhere. May the stewards do better going forward.

On to France.

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Clarky
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Clarky »

Lt. Drebin wrote:Hamilton: "I forced him into error". What a joke.
This is exactly what happened!!!

sandman1347
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by sandman1347 »

Black_Flag_11 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote: First of all; let's wait and see before we start making proclamations about what the "vast majority" of people think. I don't think you have enough information to make that claim. Secondly; TV pundits are primarily speaking from the perspective of wanting to see the battle unfold between Hamilton and Vettel like we all did. Even neutral fans are motivated by a desire for entertainment. Let me ask you this; was the penalty Verstappen received in Japan last year warranted?
Nope the ex driver pundits clearly laid out why they dont feel it warranted a penalty and nowhere did they say 'because it would be better for the show'. You're being deliberately disingenuous there.

Wait for what exactly? Most likely the majority of the people who will watch the race will have already seen it and even if they haven't I see no reason to assume their opinion would be dramatically different to those who have seen it and the opinion I've seen from here to social media to the fans at the track is easily 90%+ of the opinion that penalty was nonsense.
I heard them say that they felt Vettel didn't have control of the car when he rejoined the circuit; which is the exact issue at hand. I didn't hear one of them say that they felt Vettel rejoined the track in a safe manner and failing to do so is the actual reason he was penalized. So yes, ex-drivers are included in the pool of people who are not impartial. Unless someone can tell me that Vettel safely rejoined the track, I actually don't see what all the fuss is about.
Last edited by sandman1347 on Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

pokerman
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

I've watched the onboard again, as soon as Vettel rejoins the track he gets on the loud pedal which causes him to lose the back end which drifts his car towards Hamilton's car causing Hamilton to lift off in order to avoid a collision, not deliberate by Vettel but by the letter of the law he rejoined the track unsafely.
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by greatestF1mindever »

Clarky wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:Hamilton: "I forced him into error". What a joke.
This is exactly what happened!!!
Please.. :uhoh: :thumbdown:

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