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Asphalt_World wrote:

Siao7 wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:An interesting article.
https://www.racefans.net/2019/05/27/ham ... to-vettel/

It does look like Bottas was just following orders when he was backing up. Was initially told that he hadn't backed off Hamilton enough so surely Mercedes knew that they were not breaking the rules since they told him to back off Hamilton even more. Given that the stewards will have been able to hear or find out all of what was said, they can't have found it to be against the rules. Verstappen also apparently complained about Bottas's speed which is understandable. Yet more for the FIA to hear but it didn't even gen noted. So those saying that they missed it, i just don't think that can be the case. I'm just guessing it won't have been enough to even warrant investigating

How much was it, 6 seconds of slowing? If it's not against the rules but should be. Bunching the field like that basically makes an unsafe release almost inevitable at a tight track like Monaco.

I thought you didn't mind racing in the pit lane!!!

Bazinga!

TBF I really don't have much of an issue with overtaking in the pitlane. Is it allowed under the safety car?

Jolyon Palmer, in his BBC summary, puts Hamilton's 'miracle' into his perspective:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/48428176

Edited, as I typed 'Jonathan' originally!

There you go guys. Knock yourselves out!

I didn't think it was that bad; but I'm a fan.

Seems the irate 'blue flags!' were for entry into Portier. He had to take a wider line into that corner to gap Max through the tunnel; but with a slower car in front he had to take a shallower line to cover Max throwing one up the inside. So he couldn't get on the gas early enough to be completely clear of Max coming out of the tunnel.

.

Thanks for that Shoot999.

Looks like the TV took only the atypical "outburst" bits.

How someone can drive that skillfully with a constant dialogue in their ear I don't know !

Maybe having bickering kids in the back of your car can make you a better driver.

.

cmberry20 wrote:Just watched the highlights of C4.

The tribute for Niki at the end was spot on. I don't think there could have been a more fitting song used. (the impossible dream)

Why would "the impossible dream" be fitting?

Fiki wrote:

cmberry20 wrote:Just watched the highlights of C4.

The tribute for Niki at the end was spot on. I don't think there could have been a more fitting song used. (the impossible dream)

Why would "the impossible dream" be fitting?

Possibly because of this line (among others):

That one man, scorned and covered with scars
Still strove with his last ounce of courage
To reach the unreachable star

since Lauda fought back from the brink of death and got himself a WDC after, maybe

shoot999 wrote:There you go guys. Knock yourselves out!

I didn't think it was that bad; but I'm a fan.

Seems the irate 'blue flags!' were for entry into Portier. He had to take a wider line into that corner to gap Max through the tunnel; but with a slower car in front he had to take a shallower line to cover Max throwing one up the inside. So he couldn't get on the gas early enough to be completely clear of Max coming out of the tunnel.

Listening to this at my desk in work (Nice break from Blood Meridian - OT: But a good audio book) really shows you how much FOM are able to manipulate peoples opinions but their selective editing.
Watching the race FOM made it seem as if he was complaining every second whereas he is often asking questions.

Zoue wrote:

Fiki wrote:

cmberry20 wrote:Just watched the highlights of C4.

The tribute for Niki at the end was spot on. I don't think there could have been a more fitting song used. (the impossible dream)

Why would "the impossible dream" be fitting?

Possibly because of this line (among others):

That one man, scorned and covered with scars
Still strove with his last ounce of courage
To reach the unreachable star

since Lauda fought back from the brink of death and got himself a WDC after, maybe

Yes, I see. It was certainly a good find if that was the reason.

Bacus wrote:

Fiki wrote:

Asphalt_World wrote:Thing is, the race was better than it could have been due to Lewis having to drive really really slowly for almost every lap. If that doesn't highlight a problem with this circuit, what would?

How about saying it highlights a problem with the cars? They've made cars, which already are difficult to look out from, even more difficult for narrow tracks by making them unnecessarily wider. And all because they wanted downforce in search of hollow lap/track records.

I'd have to agree first time with Fiki . Wider cars was certainly unnecessary and detrimental, and speed can be taken from other areas.

Have you recovered from the shock already?

Finally, got to see Bottas' nemesis of last year. This year for a change, James surely made Hamilton sweat.

tootsie323 wrote:Jolyon Palmer, in his BBC summary, puts Hamilton's 'miracle' into his perspective:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/48428176

Edited, as I typed 'Jonathan' originally!

Interesting info on Ricciardo's medium stint. I'm not fully of the opinion that Hamilton was thinking of the show or trying to make his drive seem more impressive personally, however that does make it seem more plausible, after all he must have known how far within the potential pace of the car he was driving in that moment. It does feel like a lot of unnecessary drama, but hey, it gave us a good show.

They are making too much of Hamiltons tyre 'drama'.
Chances of him getting overtaken were slim to nil anyway.
Not close to his win at Monaco with McLaren in 2008 imo.

I was thinking something silly. What if Hamilton let Max go in the last 2 laps instead of risking be taken out by a Max dive? He wouldn't lose 5 secs in these two laps and Max would slot in between Hamilton and Bottas after his penalty, giving him a bigger points difference to Bottas.

How plausible scenario would that be?

Siao7 wrote:I was thinking something silly. What if Hamilton let Max go in the last 2 laps instead of risking be taken out by a Max dive? He wouldn't lose 5 secs in these two laps and Max would slot in between Hamilton and Bottas after his penalty, giving him a bigger points difference to Bottas.

How plausible scenario would that be?

Infact, Max would've won as am sure he would've created a gap more than 5 seconds. Hamilton was deliberately going slow to preserve his tyres whereas Max would've gone as fast as possible as he had to create a gap of 5 seconds to retain 1st. Midfield cars were able to lap faster than Hamilton.

Siao7 wrote:I was thinking something silly. What if Hamilton let Max go in the last 2 laps instead of risking be taken out by a Max dive? He wouldn't lose 5 secs in these two laps and Max would slot in between Hamilton and Bottas after his penalty, giving him a bigger points difference to Bottas.

How plausible scenario would that be?

Not very. Hamilton was circling around 3s a lap slower than ultimate pace towards the end so there's no guarantee that Max wouldn't have lost him and claimed the win, plus it wouldn't have been very well received by the team tbh. But ultimately I think Hamilton would rather have won the race on track than via a penalty system.

From Brundle:

I don't easily recall an incident where an engineer's radio call to the driver had to be bleeped due to bad language, but it will surely be Lewis's man Pete Bonnington who finally breaks. He must have the patience and restraint of a Saint not to say 'well that's where we find ourselves, we all make mistakes, you're leading the race, if we pit again you definitely won't win, remember Senna and Ricciardo, and ******* get on with it'.

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24096 ... -monaco-gp

Zoue wrote:From Brundle:

I don't easily recall an incident where an engineer's radio call to the driver had to be bleeped due to bad language, but it will surely be Lewis's man Pete Bonnington who finally breaks. He must have the patience and restraint of a Saint not to say 'well that's where we find ourselves, we all make mistakes, you're leading the race, if we pit again you definitely won't win, remember Senna and Ricciardo, and ******* get on with it'.

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24096 ... -monaco-gp

He's forgotten get out the f**king way Kimi though. One of my personal favourites.

Zoue wrote:From Brundle:

I don't easily recall an incident where an engineer's radio call to the driver had to be bleeped due to bad language, but it will surely be Lewis's man Pete Bonnington who finally breaks. He must have the patience and restraint of a Saint not to say 'well that's where we find ourselves, we all make mistakes, you're leading the race, if we pit again you definitely won't win, remember Senna and Ricciardo, and ******* get on with it'.

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24096 ... -monaco-gp

I was of the mind they should have told him to box, as it was ridiculous the way he kept going on like Mercedes had a time machine to go back.

UnlikeUday wrote:

Siao7 wrote:I was thinking something silly. What if Hamilton let Max go in the last 2 laps instead of risking be taken out by a Max dive? He wouldn't lose 5 secs in these two laps and Max would slot in between Hamilton and Bottas after his penalty, giving him a bigger points difference to Bottas.

How plausible scenario would that be?

Infact, Max would've won as am sure he would've created a gap more than 5 seconds. Hamilton was deliberately going slow to preserve his tyres whereas Max would've gone as fast as possible as he had to create a gap of 5 seconds to retain 1st. Midfield cars were able to lap faster than Hamilton.

But that's it, Hamilton was going slow. He could in fact go faster if he wanted, for two laps.

shoot999 wrote:There you go guys. Knock yourselves out!

I didn't think it was that bad; but I'm a fan.

Seems the irate 'blue flags!' were for entry into Portier. He had to take a wider line into that corner to gap Max through the tunnel; but with a slower car in front he had to take a shallower line to cover Max throwing one up the inside. So he couldn't get on the gas early enough to be completely clear of Max coming out of the tunnel.

Thanks for this. actually it wasn't bad at all. It was made to look worse on race day.

Rockie wrote:

Zoue wrote:From Brundle:

I don't easily recall an incident where an engineer's radio call to the driver had to be bleeped due to bad language, but it will surely be Lewis's man Pete Bonnington who finally breaks. He must have the patience and restraint of a Saint not to say 'well that's where we find ourselves, we all make mistakes, you're leading the race, if we pit again you definitely won't win, remember Senna and Ricciardo, and ******* get on with it'.

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24096 ... -monaco-gp

I was of the mind they should have told him to box, as it was ridiculous the way he kept going on like Mercedes had a time machine to go back.

Maybe they should ask Max's engineer for advice. He's had plenty of practice. He seems to deal with the kid with a nice dose of sarcasm.

lucifers wrote:

shoot999 wrote:There you go guys. Knock yourselves out!

I didn't think it was that bad; but I'm a fan.

Seems the irate 'blue flags!' were for entry into Portier. He had to take a wider line into that corner to gap Max through the tunnel; but with a slower car in front he had to take a shallower line to cover Max throwing one up the inside. So he couldn't get on the gas early enough to be completely clear of Max coming out of the tunnel.

Thanks for this. actually it wasn't bad at all. It was made to look worse on race day.

It's almost like FOM selectively chose which bits to broadcast to create drama

Junglist wrote:It's almost like FOM selectively chose which bits to broadcast to create drama

Nooooooo they wouldn't do that, would they???

Junglist wrote:

lucifers wrote:

shoot999 wrote:There you go guys. Knock yourselves out!

I didn't think it was that bad; but I'm a fan.

Seems the irate 'blue flags!' were for entry into Portier. He had to take a wider line into that corner to gap Max through the tunnel; but with a slower car in front he had to take a shallower line to cover Max throwing one up the inside. So he couldn't get on the gas early enough to be completely clear of Max coming out of the tunnel.

Thanks for this. actually it wasn't bad at all. It was made to look worse on race day.

It's almost like FOM selectively chose which bits to broadcast to create drama

F1 is a product of their current owners, and its there for sale. They have to create drama, as their product sucks and stinks.

Interesting info that holding up people behind you can give you a penalty. I know everyone wants to blame Max because of the contact, but I wonder if RBR looked at that rule to at least give him less of a penalty (5 seconds). The whole time I really felt like Merc has some responsibility in all of it, after all they held everyone up because they wanted to double stack, it isn't RBR fault that they wanted to double stack, thats their problem. If they didn't do that, there wouldn't have been an issue. It is also interesting that Max came out and was actually ahead of Bottas when they made contact. In many series, the person who comes out in the lead gets priority and the other person has to slow down. Obviously this isn't how it is in F1, otherwise there would have been no penalty, or Bottas would get the penalty for not slowing for a lead car. Not saying which is the "right" way of doing it, but this isn't uncommon in racing. Add to that that Max was given green by his team, the fact that he couldnt see very well as well as less room at Monaco, and it isn't as black as white as some seem to think.

I am also not as impressed with Hams win as some seem to be. Lets not forget that Ricciardo won monaco being 160 HP down (which is probably 200hp to the Ferrari) . That was way more impressive that the fastest car being able to stay ahead of a slower car, having slightly more worn tires. Big freaking deal!! Oh, and Hamilton wasn't the only one that went 65+ laps on those tires. Many others did as well, and they were is dirty air, which causes even more front tire degradation. I guess the FIA have to act like the season is still in question and everyone else is getting so close (another example is how last week Renault, and McLaren all of the sudden are making announcements that they "found" what they were missing to make them fast, and even RBR had an Aero upgrade. Ya, Renault and McLaren are getting faster, but for the most part still finishing further back than they should, and even behind TR. I guess the biggest gains have been seen in Honda, as they had 4 drivers (100%) finish in the top 8 and no mechanical issues with any of them.

so ya, if we just took away Merc, this would be a pretty exciting year, But...........

rodH wrote:Interesting info that holding up people behind you can give you a penalty. I know everyone wants to blame Max because of the contact, but I wonder if RBR looked at that rule to at least give him less of a penalty (5 seconds). The whole time I really felt like Merc has some responsibility in all of it, after all they held everyone up because they wanted to double stack, it isn't RBR fault that they wanted to double stack, thats their problem. If they didn't do that, there wouldn't have been an issue. It is also interesting that Max came out and was actually ahead of Bottas when they made contact. In many series, the person who comes out in the lead gets priority and the other person has to slow down. Obviously this isn't how it is in F1, otherwise there would have been no penalty, or Bottas would get the penalty for not slowing for a lead car. Not saying which is the "right" way of doing it, but this isn't uncommon in racing. Add to that that Max was given green by his team, the fact that he couldnt see very well as well as less room at Monaco, and it isn't as black as white as some seem to think.

I am also not as impressed with Hams win as some seem to be. Lets not forget that Ricciardo won monaco being 160 HP down (which is probably 200hp to the Ferrari) . That was way more impressive that the fastest car being able to stay ahead of a slower car, having slightly more worn tires. Big freaking deal!! Oh, and Hamilton wasn't the only one that went 65+ laps on those tires. Many others did as well, and they were is dirty air, which causes even more front tire degradation. I guess the FIA have to act like the season is still in question and everyone else is getting so close (another example is how last week Renault, and McLaren all of the sudden are making announcements that they "found" what they were missing to make them fast, and even RBR had an Aero upgrade. Ya, Renault and McLaren are getting faster, but for the most part still finishing further back than they should, and even behind TR. I guess the biggest gains have been seen in Honda, as they had 4 drivers (100%) finish in the top 8 and no mechanical issues with any of them.

so ya, if we just took away Merc, this would be a pretty exciting year, But...........

Yes without the Mercedes we could all be getting excited about the outstanding way Ferrari and its drivers are leading the championships this year, whilst 6 times WDC Vettel spins and crashes his way to a 7th title.

rodH wrote:....it isn't RBR fault that they wanted to double stack, thats their problem. If they didn't do that, there wouldn't have been an issue. It is also interesting that Max came out and was actually ahead of Bottas when they made contact. In many series, the person who comes out in the lead gets priority and the other person has to slow down. Obviously this isn't how it is in F1, otherwise there would have been no penalty, or Bottas would get the penalty for not slowing for a lead car. .

Exactly, the point being that Max knows what the rules are and can have no complaints. We need to remember that Max hit both Mercedes in the race and sort of ruined VB's race, though he ended up on the right tyres but behind MV. Had he punctured LH's rear at the end of the race the whole outcome might have been very different. However good you are you just can't hit other drivers repeatedly and expect to get away with it.

Not even sure its fair to complain about a team having better engineering, it happens in sport that one team consistently wins and dominates and era. Barcelona, Manchester United, Mohammed Ali, Michael Johnson its just how sport is sometimes.

Lt. Drebin wrote:

Junglist wrote:

lucifers wrote:

shoot999 wrote:There you go guys. Knock yourselves out!

I didn't think it was that bad; but I'm a fan.

Seems the irate 'blue flags!' were for entry into Portier. He had to take a wider line into that corner to gap Max through the tunnel; but with a slower car in front he had to take a shallower line to cover Max throwing one up the inside. So he couldn't get on the gas early enough to be completely clear of Max coming out of the tunnel.

Thanks for this. actually it wasn't bad at all. It was made to look worse on race day.

It's almost like FOM selectively chose which bits to broadcast to create drama

F1 is a product of their current owners, and its there for sale. They have to create drama, as their product sucks and stinks.

So sad isn't it

New angle of Checo having a near miss with 2 marshals:

Option or Prime wrote:

rodH wrote:....it isn't RBR fault that they wanted to double stack, thats their problem. If they didn't do that, there wouldn't have been an issue. It is also interesting that Max came out and was actually ahead of Bottas when they made contact. In many series, the person who comes out in the lead gets priority and the other person has to slow down. Obviously this isn't how it is in F1, otherwise there would have been no penalty, or Bottas would get the penalty for not slowing for a lead car. .

Not even sure its fair to complain about a team having better engineering, it happens in sport that one team consistently wins and dominates and era. Barcelona, Manchester United, Mohammed Ali, Michael Johnson its just how sport is sometimes.

Whos complaining about Merc being so good? I'm talking about drivers. We all know Merc is the best team if your arguing who is the best car, im not part of that argument.

Interesting AMA from Mercedes James Vowles on the Monaco GP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPX7car ... e=youtu.be

Lojik wrote:Interesting AMA from Mercedes James Vowles on the Monaco GP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPX7car ... e=youtu.be

How sad is it that he says, succinctly, no one can overtake at Monaco right at the start

jimmyj wrote:

Lojik wrote:Interesting AMA from Mercedes James Vowles on the Monaco GP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPX7car ... e=youtu.be

How sad is it that he says, succinctly, no one can overtake at Monaco right at the start

You never watched a race at Monaco before?

Lojik wrote:Interesting AMA from Mercedes James Vowles on the Monaco GP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPX7car ... e=youtu.be

Interesting bit (@3:15) that basically Lewis hitting the tyre gun is what cost Valtteri a position.

Covalent wrote:

Lojik wrote:Interesting AMA from Mercedes James Vowles on the Monaco GP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPX7car ... e=youtu.be

Interesting bit (@3:15) that basically Lewis hitting the tyre gun is what cost Valtteri a position.

I'm a bit confused about that. On a pit stop once the gun guy is finished he holds the gun above the tyre to show the wheel is on, then the driver is given the go. So I wonder how the gun ended up on the floor?

China double stack

shoot999 wrote:

Covalent wrote:

Lojik wrote:Interesting AMA from Mercedes James Vowles on the Monaco GP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPX7car ... e=youtu.be

Interesting bit (@3:15) that basically Lewis hitting the tyre gun is what cost Valtteri a position.

I'm a bit confused about that. On a pit stop once the gun guy is finished he holds the gun above the tyre to show the wheel is on, then the driver is given the go. So I wonder how the gun ended up on the floor?

China double stack

Yep I'm guessing that it shouldn't have been there for Hamilton to hit in the first place, good job they don't have the Indycar rules otherwise I believe that would have been a penalty for Hamilton?