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frankwer wrote:F1 is total bullshit. The Monaco race is there just for weekend entertainment for rich people.

Monaco is the most exciting race when it rains... my memory of it was that it used to rain a lot... But now I can't really remember much rain in the last umpteenth seasons.

i just can not understand the weak 5 second penalty for Verstappen after that realease. Nothing against Verstappen, but that forced Bottas damage and he had to pit again. He already lost 1 place due to an unsafe release and another for having to box due to damage (caused by the unsafe release!?) In the past, even when there was no contact when drivers had an unsafe release, the penalty was huge. It seems pathetic that giovinazzi got a bigger penalty for what he did than this.

This was very unfortunate for Bottas. He looked very solid this weekend and until red Bull messed up his race, Mercedes were certainly going to get a 1 -2 finish.

frankwer wrote:F1 is total bullshit. The Monaco race is there just for weekend entertainment for rich people.

We're lucky for that strategy error of Merc that made this race interesting (and for Max - but apparantly people hate someone making things interesting when nothing happens)
Otherwise you're right.

mikeyg123 wrote:

frankwer wrote:F1 is total bullshit. The Monaco race is there just for weekend entertainment for rich people.

Most exciting race of the season so far for me.

Was a damn good race!

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

F1Tyrant wrote:

pokerman wrote:Verstappen talking rubbish

Max is still a child, he'll mellow out in the long term.

Yep he hits Hamilton's car and then blames Hamilton, a bit low class.

They all do it though don't they? It's always the other drivers fault. And tbf what he said was actually accurate. Even if Hamilton didn't do anything wrong by doing it.

Hamilton had to turn for the corner to make the corner, what Verstappen said was ridiculous.

Zoue wrote:

Asphalt_World wrote:So, I expect Lewis will call this his hardest win ever!

Yep he just did!

Bang on!

TheGiantHogweed wrote:i just can not understand the weak 5 second penalty for Verstappen after that realease. Nothing against Verstappen, but that forced Bottas damage and he had to pit again. He already lost 1 place due to an unsafe release and another for having to box due to damage (caused by the unsafe release!?) In the past, even when there was no contact when drivers had an unsafe release, the penalty was huge. It seems pathetic that giovinazzi got a bigger penalty for what he did than this.

This was very unfortunate for Bottas. He looked very solid this weekend and until red Bull messed up his race, Mercedes were certainly going to get a 1 -2 finish.

Yeah apparently he punctured Bottas' tyre as well.

Thing is, the race was better than it could have been due to Lewis having to drive really really slowly for almost every lap. If that doesn't highlight a problem with this circuit, what would?

TheGiantHogweed wrote:i just can not understand the weak 5 second penalty for Verstappen after that realease. Nothing against Verstappen, but that forced Bottas damage and he had to pit again. He already lost 1 place due to an unsafe release and another for having to box due to damage (caused by the unsafe release!?) In the past, even when there was no contact when drivers had an unsafe release, the penalty was huge. It seems pathetic that giovinazzi got a bigger penalty for what he did than this.

This was very unfortunate for Bottas. He looked very solid this weekend and until red Bull messed up his race, Mercedes were certainly going to get a 1 -2 finish.

Bottas is a lucky boy, what he did is usally a penalty and if he didn't back off he would have probably ended up 4th anyway and he ended up 3rd so better than that.

Always a danger in Monaco if you are 1-2, same thing happened to Hamilton in 2013 when he got jumped by Vettel. That day, Hamilton respected the rules and lost out.

No disrespect to Niki but this red caps dont do it for me.

The one with the Niki Lauda on it looked good and they should have left it there.

Asphalt_World wrote:Thing is, the race was better than it could have been due to Lewis having to drive really really slowly for almost every lap. If that doesn't highlight a problem with this circuit, what would?

Indeed.

da4an1qu1 wrote:

frankwer wrote:F1 is total bullshit. The Monaco race is there just for weekend entertainment for rich people.

Monaco is the most exciting race when it rains... my memory of it was that it used to rain a lot... But now I can't really remember much rain in the last umpteenth seasons.

Every race is exciting when it rains.

Last year Vettel couldn't overtake Danny Ric who has without 160BHP. I literally had no hope of this fight ever producing an overtake (or when fighting for position). My only hope was Verstappen boneheaded move of the race™. For a moment I was concerned that pushing Bottas into the wall IN THE PIT LANE would have been that but he tried one on Hamilton as well.

Merc screwed up again in Monaco and only luck didn't cost them the race this time, that's why Hamilton was a bit grumpy at the end, cause they put him without much need in a very tight spot.

Vettel breaks the Mercedes 1-2!

Well, happy to just hear that Ricciardo was promoted a place due to Grosean's penalty (nothing against Grosean, but he does flirt with penalties more than Dan does). Despite being angry at Renault's decision... it is possible Dan would have ended up not too far ahead of 9th anyway, if at all.

Rockie wrote:No disrespect to Niki but this red caps dont do it for me.

The one with the Niki Lauda on it looked good and they should have left it there.

They finally changed it my bad!

Rockie wrote:Lol Ricciardo won last year with a car that was 5 seconds slower per lap, Mercedes need to save us the rubbish.

Ricciardo was 2.0-2.5 seconds per lap slower.

Johnson wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:i just can not understand the weak 5 second penalty for Verstappen after that realease. Nothing against Verstappen, but that forced Bottas damage and he had to pit again. He already lost 1 place due to an unsafe release and another for having to box due to damage (caused by the unsafe release!?) In the past, even when there was no contact when drivers had an unsafe release, the penalty was huge. It seems pathetic that giovinazzi got a bigger penalty for what he did than this.

This was very unfortunate for Bottas. He looked very solid this weekend and until red Bull messed up his race, Mercedes were certainly going to get a 1 -2 finish.

Bottas is a lucky boy, what he did is usally a penalty and if he didn't back off he would have probably ended up 4th anyway and he ended up 3rd so better than that.

Always a danger in Monaco if you are 1-2, same thing happened to Hamilton in 2013 when he got jumped by Vettel. That day, Hamilton respected the rules and lost out.

You hardly seem to be explaining whatever bottas did being worth a penalty? ..... I don't understand your reasons for him resulting in finishing 4th or 3rd without this.

VDV23 wrote:

da4an1qu1 wrote:

frankwer wrote:F1 is total bullshit. The Monaco race is there just for weekend entertainment for rich people.

Monaco is the most exciting race when it rains... my memory of it was that it used to rain a lot... But now I can't really remember much rain in the last umpteenth seasons.

Every race is exciting when it rains.

Last year Vettel couldn't overtake Danny Ric who has without 160BHP. I literally had no hope of this fight ever producing an overtake (or when fighting for position). My only hope was Verstappen boneheaded move of the race™. For a moment I was concerned that pushing Bottas into the wall IN THE PIT LANE would have been that but he tried one on Hamilton as well.

He obviously didn't try to put Ham in the wall. That braking is very tricky and caught many drivers, he took a risk (justified in the context) but it was misjudged.
Don't need to over-interpret just because not liking a driver.

Rockie wrote:Vettel breaks the Mercedes 1-2!

Incredible driver!

Yeah Monaco has its detractors, but... track position is so important, so.... do better on the Saturday.

I wouldn't want to see a season of Monaco's, but likewise it presents a different challenge and one of the few races that can cause an upset still with a bit of luck and safety cars.

That said I still think they could open the track up a bit in at least one place, just to give a chance. There is room to an alterative option from the Chicane pretty much right up to Rascasse. Yeah might need a bit of creative engineering or removal of some of the waterfront structures, but it is possible to engineer a better overtaking chance.

Badgeronimous wrote:Hamilton does moan a lot. Ricciardo won with track position despite being 150 bhp down! It was great drive though, probably one of his best.

Monaco is more about corners than power though. So while Hamilton's power on the acceleration zones saved him from being eaten up by Max. The tyre issue made his life just as difficult as Ricciardo's power unit problem last year, just from the other way around.

TheGiantHogweed wrote:

Johnson wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:i just can not understand the weak 5 second penalty for Verstappen after that realease. Nothing against Verstappen, but that forced Bottas damage and he had to pit again. He already lost 1 place due to an unsafe release and another for having to box due to damage (caused by the unsafe release!?) In the past, even when there was no contact when drivers had an unsafe release, the penalty was huge. It seems pathetic that giovinazzi got a bigger penalty for what he did than this.

This was very unfortunate for Bottas. He looked very solid this weekend and until red Bull messed up his race, Mercedes were certainly going to get a 1 -2 finish.

Bottas is a lucky boy, what he did is usally a penalty and if he didn't back off he would have probably ended up 4th anyway and he ended up 3rd so better than that.

Always a danger in Monaco if you are 1-2, same thing happened to Hamilton in 2013 when he got jumped by Vettel. That day, Hamilton respected the rules and lost out.

You hardly seem to be explaining whatever bottas did being worth a penalty? ..... I don't understand your reasons for him resulting in finishing 4th or 3rd without this.

Under a SC, VSC you are not allowed to deliberately back up. Bottas was 1 second behind Hamilton when the SC deployed, by the time he entered the pits he was about 6-7 seconds behind him.

Alienturnedhuman wrote:

Badgeronimous wrote:Hamilton does moan a lot. Ricciardo won with track position despite being 150 bhp down! It was great drive though, probably one of his best.

Monaco is more about corners than power though. So while Hamilton's power on the acceleration zones saved him from being eaten up by Max. The tyre issue made his life just as difficult as Ricciardo's power unit problem last year, just from the other way around.

His rear tyres were intact so he lost nothing in the corners.

Jezza13 wrote:

Aspar wrote:Just catching up, why is Hamilton with Mediums while all others are with hards? What's merc's idea or they just screwed with strategy, as usual on this track?

They told Hamilton he needed to talk more on the radio during the race.

I wonder who his scriptwriter is!
He makes such a song and dance about his team's mission control decisions, he should tell his team which tyres to prepare. Then he could leave the TV director the chance to let us hear a midfielder or backmarker's freq for a change.

Bacus wrote:

Rockie wrote:Vettel breaks the Mercedes 1-2!

Incredible driver!

Verstappen broke the 1-2 by puncturing Bottas' tyre.

VDV23 wrote:

da4an1qu1 wrote:

frankwer wrote:F1 is total bullshit. The Monaco race is there just for weekend entertainment for rich people.

Monaco is the most exciting race when it rains... my memory of it was that it used to rain a lot... But now I can't really remember much rain in the last umpteenth seasons.

Every race is exciting when it rains.

Last year Vettel couldn't overtake Danny Ric who has without 160BHP. I literally had no hope of this fight ever producing an overtake (or when fighting for position). My only hope was Verstappen boneheaded move of the race™. For a moment I was concerned that pushing Bottas into the wall IN THE PIT LANE would have been that but he tried one on Hamilton as well.

Sure, every race is exciting if it rains. But Monaco remains unique, and due to the low margins of error, when it rains it becomes a really eventful race.

But to be fair to you too... these days rain is no guarantee of a good race even in Monaco, as race officials are a lot more prudent about letting a race continue in wet weather.

I think Monaco is just the sacrifice of the "show" that F1 just has to have. It's too iconic and integral to the "glamour" marketing of F1.

Bacus wrote:

VDV23 wrote:

da4an1qu1 wrote:

frankwer wrote:F1 is total bullshit. The Monaco race is there just for weekend entertainment for rich people.

Monaco is the most exciting race when it rains... my memory of it was that it used to rain a lot... But now I can't really remember much rain in the last umpteenth seasons.

Every race is exciting when it rains.

Last year Vettel couldn't overtake Danny Ric who has without 160BHP. I literally had no hope of this fight ever producing an overtake (or when fighting for position). My only hope was Verstappen boneheaded move of the race™. For a moment I was concerned that pushing Bottas into the wall IN THE PIT LANE would have been that but he tried one on Hamilton as well.

He obviously didn't try to put Ham in the wall. That braking is very tricky and caught many drivers, he took a risk (justified in the context) but it was misjudged.
Don't need to over-interpret just because not liking a driver.

He lunged and he locked up. And as if Max needs the risk to be justified to take it

I don't dislike Max. In fact, I'd say he is the bright spot in this grim, boring and almost impossible to overtake Formula 1.

Johnson wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:

Johnson wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:i just can not understand the weak 5 second penalty for Verstappen after that realease. Nothing against Verstappen, but that forced Bottas damage and he had to pit again. He already lost 1 place due to an unsafe release and another for having to box due to damage (caused by the unsafe release!?) In the past, even when there was no contact when drivers had an unsafe release, the penalty was huge. It seems pathetic that giovinazzi got a bigger penalty for what he did than this.

This was very unfortunate for Bottas. He looked very solid this weekend and until red Bull messed up his race, Mercedes were certainly going to get a 1 -2 finish.

Bottas is a lucky boy, what he did is usally a penalty and if he didn't back off he would have probably ended up 4th anyway and he ended up 3rd so better than that.

Always a danger in Monaco if you are 1-2, same thing happened to Hamilton in 2013 when he got jumped by Vettel. That day, Hamilton respected the rules and lost out.

You hardly seem to be explaining whatever bottas did being worth a penalty? ..... I don't understand your reasons for him resulting in finishing 4th or 3rd without this.

Under a SC, VSC you are not allowed to deliberately back up. Bottas was 1 second behind Hamilton when the SC deployed, by the time he entered the pits he was about 6-7 seconds behind him.

No such rule exists asides from the delta time you have to drive to.

The only rule is you cant back people up in the pitlane on track no rule against it.

Johnson wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:

Johnson wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:i just can not understand the weak 5 second penalty for Verstappen after that realease. Nothing against Verstappen, but that forced Bottas damage and he had to pit again. He already lost 1 place due to an unsafe release and another for having to box due to damage (caused by the unsafe release!?) In the past, even when there was no contact when drivers had an unsafe release, the penalty was huge. It seems pathetic that giovinazzi got a bigger penalty for what he did than this.

This was very unfortunate for Bottas. He looked very solid this weekend and until red Bull messed up his race, Mercedes were certainly going to get a 1 -2 finish.

Bottas is a lucky boy, what he did is usally a penalty and if he didn't back off he would have probably ended up 4th anyway and he ended up 3rd so better than that.

Always a danger in Monaco if you are 1-2, same thing happened to Hamilton in 2013 when he got jumped by Vettel. That day, Hamilton respected the rules and lost out.

You hardly seem to be explaining whatever bottas did being worth a penalty? ..... I don't understand your reasons for him resulting in finishing 4th or 3rd without this.

Under a SC, VSC you are not allowed to deliberately back up. Bottas was 1 second behind Hamilton when the SC deployed, by the time he entered the pits he was about 6-7 seconds behind him.

Bottas significently reduced his speed in Baku last year when the safety car came out before he pitted. if he got no penalty for doing this twice, i don't think you should be implying it was a lucky escape. He got no penalty so obviously wasn't in the wrong. And i can only say he was unlucky as due to this unsafe release, he may have got the place back from the driver that caused it, but still lost out on 2nd due to another car getting by because of him getting damage and having to pit again.

Rockie wrote:

Johnson wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:

Johnson wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:i just can not understand the weak 5 second penalty for Verstappen after that realease. Nothing against Verstappen, but that forced Bottas damage and he had to pit again. He already lost 1 place due to an unsafe release and another for having to box due to damage (caused by the unsafe release!?) In the past, even when there was no contact when drivers had an unsafe release, the penalty was huge. It seems pathetic that giovinazzi got a bigger penalty for what he did than this.

This was very unfortunate for Bottas. He looked very solid this weekend and until red Bull messed up his race, Mercedes were certainly going to get a 1 -2 finish.

Bottas is a lucky boy, what he did is usally a penalty and if he didn't back off he would have probably ended up 4th anyway and he ended up 3rd so better than that.

Always a danger in Monaco if you are 1-2, same thing happened to Hamilton in 2013 when he got jumped by Vettel. That day, Hamilton respected the rules and lost out.

You hardly seem to be explaining whatever bottas did being worth a penalty? ..... I don't understand your reasons for him resulting in finishing 4th or 3rd without this.

Under a SC, VSC you are not allowed to deliberately back up. Bottas was 1 second behind Hamilton when the SC deployed, by the time he entered the pits he was about 6-7 seconds behind him.

No such rule exists asides from the delta time you have to drive to.

The only rule is you cant back people up in the pitlane on track no rule against it.

Yea good point. Hamilton got a penalty one time in Bahrain because he held Ricciardo up by going too slow in the actual pit lane. I didn't think there was anothign against drivers going slow before it during the VSC or SC.

Asphalt_World wrote:Thing is, the race was better than it could have been due to Lewis having to drive really really slowly for almost every lap. If that doesn't highlight a problem with this circuit, what would?

How about saying it highlights a problem with the cars? They've made cars, which already are difficult to look out from, even more difficult for narrow tracks by making them unnecessarily wider. And all because they wanted downforce in search of hollow lap/track records.

I think Hamilton has now had the 4th best start to a season in F1 history (4 wins, two 2nds) at least in the modern era . Only behind Mansell 1992 and Vettel 2011 (5 wins, one 2nd) and Button 2009 (5 wins, one 3rd).

Herb wrote:

Bacus wrote:

Rockie wrote:Vettel breaks the Mercedes 1-2!

Incredible driver!

Verstappen broke the 1-2 by puncturing Bottas' tyre.

Same way Leclerc reliability allowed Mercedes win in Bahrain, matters not it's still Hamilton, Vettel and Bottas.

TheGiantHogweed wrote:

Johnson wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:

Johnson wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:i just can not understand the weak 5 second penalty for Verstappen after that realease. Nothing against Verstappen, but that forced Bottas damage and he had to pit again. He already lost 1 place due to an unsafe release and another for having to box due to damage (caused by the unsafe release!?) In the past, even when there was no contact when drivers had an unsafe release, the penalty was huge. It seems pathetic that giovinazzi got a bigger penalty for what he did than this.

This was very unfortunate for Bottas. He looked very solid this weekend and until red Bull messed up his race, Mercedes were certainly going to get a 1 -2 finish.

Bottas is a lucky boy, what he did is usally a penalty and if he didn't back off he would have probably ended up 4th anyway and he ended up 3rd so better than that.

Always a danger in Monaco if you are 1-2, same thing happened to Hamilton in 2013 when he got jumped by Vettel. That day, Hamilton respected the rules and lost out.

You hardly seem to be explaining whatever bottas did being worth a penalty? ..... I don't understand your reasons for him resulting in finishing 4th or 3rd without this.

Under a SC, VSC you are not allowed to deliberately back up. Bottas was 1 second behind Hamilton when the SC deployed, by the time he entered the pits he was about 6-7 seconds behind him.

Bottas significently reduced his speed in Baku last year when the safety car came out before he pitted. if he got no penalty for doing this twice, i don't think you should be implying it was a lucky escape. He got no penalty so obviously wasn't in the wrong. And i can only say he was unlucky as due to this unsafe release, he may have got the place back from the driver that caused it, but still lost out on 2nd due to another car getting by because of him getting damage and having to pit again.

A driver didn't cause it.

And no penalty could put Bottas back ahead of Vettel.

Backing up like that is against the rules whether they chose to enforce it or not. He's gotten away with it twice. Had Red Bull not released Verstappen when they did Max would have lost a place to Vettel because of it. Hardly seems very fair?

TheGiantHogweed wrote:

Johnson wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:

Johnson wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:i just can not understand the weak 5 second penalty for Verstappen after that realease. Nothing against Verstappen, but that forced Bottas damage and he had to pit again. He already lost 1 place due to an unsafe release and another for having to box due to damage (caused by the unsafe release!?) In the past, even when there was no contact when drivers had an unsafe release, the penalty was huge. It seems pathetic that giovinazzi got a bigger penalty for what he did than this.

This was very unfortunate for Bottas. He looked very solid this weekend and until red Bull messed up his race, Mercedes were certainly going to get a 1 -2 finish.

Bottas is a lucky boy, what he did is usally a penalty and if he didn't back off he would have probably ended up 4th anyway and he ended up 3rd so better than that.

Always a danger in Monaco if you are 1-2, same thing happened to Hamilton in 2013 when he got jumped by Vettel. That day, Hamilton respected the rules and lost out.

You hardly seem to be explaining whatever bottas did being worth a penalty? ..... I don't understand your reasons for him resulting in finishing 4th or 3rd without this.

Under a SC, VSC you are not allowed to deliberately back up. Bottas was 1 second behind Hamilton when the SC deployed, by the time he entered the pits he was about 6-7 seconds behind him.

Bottas significently reduced his speed in Baku last year when the safety car came out before he pitted. if he got no penalty for doing this twice, i don't think you should be implying it was a lucky escape. He got no penalty so obviously wasn't in the wrong. And i can only say he was unlucky as due to this unsafe release, he may have got the place back from the driver that caused it, but still lost out on 2nd due to another car getting by because of him getting damage and having to pit again.

Why would he do that? He was very close to having just enough time to pit and come out ahead of Vettel? That makes no sense at all.

Fiki wrote:

Asphalt_World wrote:Thing is, the race was better than it could have been due to Lewis having to drive really really slowly for almost every lap. If that doesn't highlight a problem with this circuit, what would?

How about saying it highlights a problem with the cars? They've made cars, which already are difficult to look out from, even more difficult for narrow tracks by making them unnecessarily wider. And all because they wanted downforce in search of hollow lap/track records.

I'd have to agree first time with Fiki . Wider cars was certainly unnecessary and detrimental, and speed can be taken from other areas.

Johnson wrote:I think Hamilton has now had the 4th best start to a season in F1 history (4 wins, two 2nds) at least in the modern era . Only behind Mansell 1992 and Vettel 2011 (5 wins, one 2nd) and Button 2009 (5 wins, one 3rd).

Schumacher in 1994 - 5 wins and a second place and In 2002 5 wins and a 3rd.

Asphalt_World wrote:So, I expect Lewis will call this his hardest win ever!

Probably difficult to remember the hardest given the amount of F1 races he's won?

Boring race as expected. I think the most annoying part is the driver at lead can crawl to the victory and rest can't do anything about it as there is barely space for 2 cars Same for the midfield battle. Ricciardo and KMag got behind and were stuck in traffic. Sainz got lucky and STR simply followed him all race.

Hamilton moaning was very annoying. Wish Mercedes had asked him to pit. It would be slightly more interesting race as Max would at least had a go and build 5+secs gap and rest had to respond rather than just counting laps.