Re: Silly Season 2020!
Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:17 am
It's inevitable now:
Renault - Ocon > Hulkenberg
Haas - Hulkenberg > Grosjean
Renault - Ocon > Hulkenberg
Haas - Hulkenberg > Grosjean
Apparently.Jenson's Understeer wrote:Bottas confirmed for 2020.
Which is weird since I thought Toto was so much more invested in Ocon than he was Bottas, right...
If Russell completes his apprenticeship with Williams next season (and performs like 2019) then don't count him out for the second Merc seat.Jezza13 wrote:Apparently.Jenson's Understeer wrote:Bottas confirmed for 2020.
Which is weird since I thought Toto was so much more invested in Ocon than he was Bottas, right...
So i'm guessing it's only a 1 yr deal? If that's the case & Ocon signs a 1 yr deal with whoever takes him then my guess is either Bottas will need to be stellar or Ocon will need to flop next year for Bottas to stay at Merc for 2021.
Well that might be reflected in the length of contract Ocon signs.MistaVega23 wrote:If Russell completes his apprenticeship with Williams next season (and performs like 2019) then don't count him out for the second Merc seat.Jezza13 wrote:Apparently.Jenson's Understeer wrote:Bottas confirmed for 2020.
Which is weird since I thought Toto was so much more invested in Ocon than he was Bottas, right...
So i'm guessing it's only a 1 yr deal? If that's the case & Ocon signs a 1 yr deal with whoever takes him then my guess is either Bottas will need to be stellar or Ocon will need to flop next year for Bottas to stay at Merc for 2021.
I would be shocked if Russell's loan deal doesn't include an option for Mercedes to recall him at the end of the 2019 season. Similarly, if Ocon was going out on a multi-year loan deal then I would expect Mercedes to be able to recall him at the end of 2020. I think that would be a pretty standard clause to have in any multi-year loan deal.Jezza13 wrote:Well that might be reflected in the length of contract Ocon signs.MistaVega23 wrote:If Russell completes his apprenticeship with Williams next season (and performs like 2019) then don't count him out for the second Merc seat.Jezza13 wrote:Apparently.Jenson's Understeer wrote:Bottas confirmed for 2020.
Which is weird since I thought Toto was so much more invested in Ocon than he was Bottas, right...
So i'm guessing it's only a 1 yr deal? If that's the case & Ocon signs a 1 yr deal with whoever takes him then my guess is either Bottas will need to be stellar or Ocon will need to flop next year for Bottas to stay at Merc for 2021.
If his contract's greater than a season then it might be Russell who gets the nod but I think if it's a 1 yr contract then to me that'd be a sign that Merc are giving him a year to get his F1 legs back then they'll re-evaluate the #2 seat at seasons end.
I would add Grosjean > Williams for the following reasons:UnlikeUday wrote:It's inevitable now:
Renault - Ocon > Hulkenberg
Haas - Hulkenberg > Grosjean
Does Grosjean have any significant backing behind him though? I get the feeling the second Williams seat isn't so much up for grabs as it is up for sale.Jenson's Understeer wrote:I would add Grosjean > Williams for the following reasons:UnlikeUday wrote:It's inevitable now:
Renault - Ocon > Hulkenberg
Haas - Hulkenberg > Grosjean
1) Grosjean (and I've said this before) feels like the kind of driver who will take whatever seat he can get as long as he's still on the F1 grid
2) Even with point #1 in mind, he would actually be a smart signing for Williams. On his day he is a good midfield driver and is going to be better, short-term, than any of the F2 field.
3) If we believe what we've been told then it was Grosjean who was pushing for Haas to revert back to the Melbourne-spec car, something he did previously with (I think it was) Renault. If that is correct then Williams might benefit from having him racing for them, certainly more so than they would having Russell alongside an F1 rookie.
And that depends on if Merc could do a deal with a team willing to take Ocon on what could potentially be a single year deal.Jenson's Understeer wrote:I would be shocked if Russell's loan deal doesn't include an option for Mercedes to recall him at the end of the 2019 season. Similarly, if Ocon was going out on a multi-year loan deal then I would expect Mercedes to be able to recall him at the end of 2020. I think that would be a pretty standard clause to have in any multi-year loan deal.Jezza13 wrote:Well that might be reflected in the length of contract Ocon signs.MistaVega23 wrote:If Russell completes his apprenticeship with Williams next season (and performs like 2019) then don't count him out for the second Merc seat.Jezza13 wrote:Apparently.Jenson's Understeer wrote:Bottas confirmed for 2020.
Which is weird since I thought Toto was so much more invested in Ocon than he was Bottas, right...
So i'm guessing it's only a 1 yr deal? If that's the case & Ocon signs a 1 yr deal with whoever takes him then my guess is either Bottas will need to be stellar or Ocon will need to flop next year for Bottas to stay at Merc for 2021.
If his contract's greater than a season then it might be Russell who gets the nod but I think if it's a 1 yr contract then to me that'd be a sign that Merc are giving him a year to get his F1 legs back then they'll re-evaluate the #2 seat at seasons end.
He traditionally came with Total backing I think. I'm not sure if that's still the case though.Black_Flag_11 wrote:Does Grosjean have any significant backing behind him though? I get the feeling the second Williams seat isn't so much up for grabs as it is up for sale.Jenson's Understeer wrote:I would add Grosjean > Williams for the following reasons:UnlikeUday wrote:It's inevitable now:
Renault - Ocon > Hulkenberg
Haas - Hulkenberg > Grosjean
1) Grosjean (and I've said this before) feels like the kind of driver who will take whatever seat he can get as long as he's still on the F1 grid
2) Even with point #1 in mind, he would actually be a smart signing for Williams. On his day he is a good midfield driver and is going to be better, short-term, than any of the F2 field.
3) If we believe what we've been told then it was Grosjean who was pushing for Haas to revert back to the Melbourne-spec car, something he did previously with (I think it was) Renault. If that is correct then Williams might benefit from having him racing for them, certainly more so than they would having Russell alongside an F1 rookie.
He's been to slow to make keeping him a no brainer. I think it's harsh but Ocon probably is the better driver, or at least will be.mcdo wrote:I can't help but feel Hulk's crash in Germany ended his Renault career. Because overall he hasn't done a bad job relative to Dan (who hasn't been wowing the world either)
Part of the myriad of rumours doing the rounds was the Renault were keen on getting a Merc backed Ocon to help offset Ricciardo's salary.mcdo wrote:I can't help but feel Hulk's crash in Germany ended his Renault career. Because overall he hasn't done a bad job relative to Dan (who hasn't been wowing the world either)
Steiner has said Ocon, Hulk & even Grosjean were for a running of the 2nd seat at Haas. With Ocon to Renault, Hulk has a good chance with Haas.mikeyg123 wrote:He's been to slow to make keeping him a no brainer. I think it's harsh but Ocon probably is the better driver, or at least will be.mcdo wrote:I can't help but feel Hulk's crash in Germany ended his Renault career. Because overall he hasn't done a bad job relative to Dan (who hasn't been wowing the world either)
Hulk now has to pray Albon is awful and Gasly looks about equal to Kvyat. Otherwise it's Haas.
It would also be kind of ironic that Ricciardo's move in the other direction had, indirectly, resulted in Hulkenberg ending up in a better car.MistaVega23 wrote:The more I think about it, a Verstappen/Hulkenberg tie-up wouldn't be too bad. Nico would finally get that shot at a podium.
I can't see Albon doing a better job than Gasly and I don't see RBR taking Kvyat back, so options for 2020 are limited for them indeed.
Well according to the article in this thread, Wolff wanted Ocon but Hamilton and the engineers wanted Bottas and that swayed the decision.Jenson's Understeer wrote:Bottas confirmed for 2020.
Which is weird since I thought Toto was so much more invested in Ocon than he was Bottas, right...
As what was most recently rumoured, so if the rumours continue to be true that would put Ocon in the Renault and the Hulk in the Haas?UnlikeUday wrote:First domino has fallen for 2020. Bottas confirmed by Mercedes!
You mean at the end of the 2020 season for Russell?Jenson's Understeer wrote:I would be shocked if Russell's loan deal doesn't include an option for Mercedes to recall him at the end of the 2019 season. Similarly, if Ocon was going out on a multi-year loan deal then I would expect Mercedes to be able to recall him at the end of 2020. I think that would be a pretty standard clause to have in any multi-year loan deal.Jezza13 wrote:Well that might be reflected in the length of contract Ocon signs.MistaVega23 wrote:If Russell completes his apprenticeship with Williams next season (and performs like 2019) then don't count him out for the second Merc seat.Jezza13 wrote:Apparently.Jenson's Understeer wrote:Bottas confirmed for 2020.
Which is weird since I thought Toto was so much more invested in Ocon than he was Bottas, right...
So i'm guessing it's only a 1 yr deal? If that's the case & Ocon signs a 1 yr deal with whoever takes him then my guess is either Bottas will need to be stellar or Ocon will need to flop next year for Bottas to stay at Merc for 2021.
If his contract's greater than a season then it might be Russell who gets the nod but I think if it's a 1 yr contract then to me that'd be a sign that Merc are giving him a year to get his F1 legs back then they'll re-evaluate the #2 seat at seasons end.
Jenson's Understeer wrote:So the only reason Hulkenberg wouldn't already have signed with Haas is that he fancies a shot at that second Red Bull seat.
On that basis - and assuming Haas would rather sign Hulk than retain Grosjean - then it doesn't really hurt either Hulk or Haas to wait a little. If the Red Bull option doesn't transpire then they can do a deal then, and if Hulk did end up at Red Bull, Haas would still have the option of retaining Grosjean (who Steiner said was one of the three candidates) or even taking whichever of Albon/Gasly/Kvyat get dropped by Red Bull to make room for Hulk.
Williams' form in recent seasons is to have at least one pay driver so on that score Latifi I think is the favourite to replace Kubica, as for leading a team forward I'm not that convinced by Grosjean, how can someone that inconsistent really be a stable influence on a team?Jenson's Understeer wrote:I would add Grosjean > Williams for the following reasons:UnlikeUday wrote:It's inevitable now:
Renault - Ocon > Hulkenberg
Haas - Hulkenberg > Grosjean
1) Grosjean (and I've said this before) feels like the kind of driver who will take whatever seat he can get as long as he's still on the F1 grid
2) Even with point #1 in mind, he would actually be a smart signing for Williams. On his day he is a good midfield driver and is going to be better, short-term, than any of the F2 field.
3) If we believe what we've been told then it was Grosjean who was pushing for Haas to revert back to the Melbourne-spec car, something he did previously with (I think it was) Renault. If that is correct then Williams might benefit from having him racing for them, certainly more so than they would having Russell alongside an F1 rookie.
Ocon has already been confirmed at Renault but Hulk is still unconfirmed.pokerman wrote:As what was most recently rumoured, so if the rumours continue to be true that would put Ocon in the Renault and the Hulk in the Haas?UnlikeUday wrote:First domino has fallen for 2020. Bottas confirmed by Mercedes!
Well that didn't take long.UnlikeUday wrote:Ocon has joined Renault as per this tweet:
Still nothing near the level of backing that someone like Latifi can bring I wouldn't have thought?mikeyg123 wrote:He traditionally came with Total backing I think. I'm not sure if that's still the case though.Black_Flag_11 wrote:Does Grosjean have any significant backing behind him though? I get the feeling the second Williams seat isn't so much up for grabs as it is up for sale.Jenson's Understeer wrote:I would add Grosjean > Williams for the following reasons:UnlikeUday wrote:It's inevitable now:
Renault - Ocon > Hulkenberg
Haas - Hulkenberg > Grosjean
1) Grosjean (and I've said this before) feels like the kind of driver who will take whatever seat he can get as long as he's still on the F1 grid
2) Even with point #1 in mind, he would actually be a smart signing for Williams. On his day he is a good midfield driver and is going to be better, short-term, than any of the F2 field.
3) If we believe what we've been told then it was Grosjean who was pushing for Haas to revert back to the Melbourne-spec car, something he did previously with (I think it was) Renault. If that is correct then Williams might benefit from having him racing for them, certainly more so than they would having Russell alongside an F1 rookie.
MistaVega23 wrote:The more I think about it, a Verstappen/Hulkenberg tie-up wouldn't be too bad. Nico would finally get that shot at a podium.
I can't see Albon doing a better job than Gasly and I don't see RBR taking Kvyat back, so options for 2020 are limited for them indeed.
Yeah such things can make a difference.mcdo wrote:I can't help but feel Hulk's crash in Germany ended his Renault career. Because overall he hasn't done a bad job relative to Dan (who hasn't been wowing the world either)
Well from what we've seen the Hulk is certainly no better than Ocon, whilst Ocon is a lot younger and French to boot.mikeyg123 wrote:He's been to slow to make keeping him a no brainer. I think it's harsh but Ocon probably is the better driver, or at least will be.mcdo wrote:I can't help but feel Hulk's crash in Germany ended his Renault career. Because overall he hasn't done a bad job relative to Dan (who hasn't been wowing the world either)
Hulk now has to pray Albon is awful and Gasly looks about equal to Kvyat. Otherwise it's Haas.
Yeah I had not seen that when I posted.Covalent wrote:Ocon has already been confirmed at Renault but Hulk is still unconfirmed.pokerman wrote:As what was most recently rumoured, so if the rumours continue to be true that would put Ocon in the Renault and the Hulk in the Haas?UnlikeUday wrote:First domino has fallen for 2020. Bottas confirmed by Mercedes!
I meant relative to Max. I see this as a Benetton '94-type season where Max is killing it at the front and yet no one else can drive that car. I hope I'm wrong though.kleefton wrote:MistaVega23 wrote:The more I think about it, a Verstappen/Hulkenberg tie-up wouldn't be too bad. Nico would finally get that shot at a podium.
I can't see Albon doing a better job than Gasly and I don't see RBR taking Kvyat back, so options for 2020 are limited for them indeed.
Dude Gasly was god awful. Albon is pretty much Kvyat’s level with probably more scope to improve. Kvyat wasn’t awful when he was at Redbull. I think Albon will be an improvement, closer to Max and able to put the car where it belongs most of the time. He’s not going to challenge Max though.
I would say it's worse than that. Every time something special looked like it may happen he threw it away. Hulk was unfortunate to come into F1 just before big teams had junior drivers. By the time he was ready for his chance top teams only hired WDC's or their own junior drivers.sandman1347 wrote:So that's it for Hulk then. Like Perez, he will never get that top drive. I think a move to Haas is pretty much inevitable now and then it's just a matter of how long he can hang on in F1. He clearly is a talented driver but he just never managed to make something truly special happen in the races. No podiums in almost a decade speaks volumes.
I though that KMag always had a contract for 2020?K.F. wrote:https://streamable.com/at7a8
Steiner said that Kevin is confirmed. There were some speculations about him. Now it's over.
Unless Ocon turns out be absolutely brilliant, he won't drive for Mercedes IMO. I reckon their idea is now to get Russell to be in the car for 2021.BMWSauber84 wrote:Ocon being on a two year deal at Renault while Bottas is on a one year deal at Merc is interesting. Perhaps there are all sorts of clauses involved like an option for Merc to take Ocon back after one year if they don't re-sign Bottas again or something.
Or perhaps Mercedes are banking on someone else entirely becoming available for 2021.