Silly Season 2020 (Kubica joins Alfa Romeo)!

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Lotus49
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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by Lotus49 »

Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
j man wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:Down to Andreas Seidl surely?
That was my thought. The turnaround started once he came on board.
He only joined last month, the foundations were layed last year with the development of this years car once the previous fault was found on the old one last summer. if we're dishing out credit then it should go to Zak,Fry,Prod,Stella,De Ferran,Alonso and Vandoorne amongst countless nameless others no doubt.

It's too early to give Seidl and Key any credit for the current updates that have had lead times of months before they even stepped aboard. We won't see their on track influence for months, probably not until next year. Organisational changes or improved efficiency could be seen sooner from Seidl but Key's focus is supposedly on next years car already and any hints or suggestions for this years car will need months of lead time so maybe small things could be added by the Asian leg but they both have nothing to do with the Spanish upgrades which built on the promising base delivered to winter testing from the guys in charge last year, like Fry.
And once it is built, the wind tunnel is going to be a huge benefit. I was at the MTC last month and the guy I was with showed me what they've got at the moment, and basically said the scale they're working on essentially meant they couldn't use it for anything meaningful, hence using Toyota's.

As an aside, the MTC is a ridiculously impressive building. As good as it looks on TV, the attention to detail with the architecture and away from what you see on TV is stunning. Walking around it really hammers home just how big McLaren's underperformance has been in recent years.
I was pleasantly surprised to read they were going ahead with the WT upgrade, it's a pretty big show of intent going into the future budget cap regs bringing it all back in house. I'm hoping there's a full chassis dyno thing involved at that expense (200m I read) but trying to get info on those dynos that are supposedly tied to the WT's is like drawing teeth.

I assume having the car division makes them feel they need a competitive F1 team so the extra expense is worth it and with the future cap being reachable for them they're doubling down so hopefully it works because I can't see the same in the future for Williams and it'll be a shame if McLaren are eternal midfielders in the future too and only Ferrari remain from the old timers.

I've never been to the MTC but everyone seems to say the same sort of impressive things about it, I need a visit.
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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by kleefton »

Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:Ok, so presumably Zak Brown was only suggesting it as a way to be kind to Alonso, I get that. Its just that I wonder what Alonso could do in a competitive McLaren, could he have added that extra 9/1000th of a second to get in front of Verstappen and even split the Mercs?
No.
Really? You think Alonso isn't even 9/1000 quicker than Norris? You know that for a definite enough fact to state simply 'no?'
I think it's very likely he would have beaten Verstappen in France qualy. No way he would have gotten Leclerc, let alone Bottas who was P2.
Would have been a fun race with Max and Alonso on Sunday, maybe would have completely changed the way the grand prix went...

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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by sandman1347 »

Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:Ok, so presumably Zak Brown was only suggesting it as a way to be kind to Alonso, I get that. Its just that I wonder what Alonso could do in a competitive McLaren, could he have added that extra 9/1000th of a second to get in front of Verstappen and even split the Mercs?
No.
Really? You think Alonso isn't even 9/1000 quicker than Norris? You know that for a definite enough fact to state simply 'no?'
It's not really about that. I just don't want to play the "Alonso would have ____" game. Sick of that game to be honest. The team is doing quite well without him and I think their drivers are doing quite well too. I'd rather give them some credit.

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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by sandman1347 »

An interesting silly season side note; what happened to Dan Ticktum? He's absolutely nowhere in Super Formula. Shocking really but he's just not competitive at all.

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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by Exediron »

sandman1347 wrote:An interesting silly season side note; what happened to Dan Ticktum? He's absolutely nowhere in Super Formula. Shocking really but he's just not competitive at all.
It doesn't surprise me, but then I've never really bought into the Ticktum hype. Aside from winning Macau twice, he's never looked special.

In his defense, however, he's less nowhere than Markelov.
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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by Siao7 »

Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:An interesting silly season side note; what happened to Dan Ticktum? He's absolutely nowhere in Super Formula. Shocking really but he's just not competitive at all.
It doesn't surprise me, but then I've never really bought into the Ticktum hype. Aside from winning Macau twice, he's never looked special.

In his defense, however, he's less nowhere than Markelov.
Maybe karma got him in the end!

Joking aside, he's proved to be quite a bitter driver, not a bad one but let's not forget how he didn't perform in the second half last year and then suggested that he's not winning because of his last name not being Schumacher, alluding that Prema's Schumacher's car was different or something. Maybe he is demotivated this year

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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by pokerman »

sandman1347 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:Ok, so presumably Zak Brown was only suggesting it as a way to be kind to Alonso, I get that. Its just that I wonder what Alonso could do in a competitive McLaren, could he have added that extra 9/1000th of a second to get in front of Verstappen and even split the Mercs?
No.
Really? You think Alonso isn't even 9/1000 quicker than Norris? You know that for a definite enough fact to state simply 'no?'
It's not really about that. I just don't want to play the "Alonso would have ____" game. Sick of that game to be honest. The team is doing quite well without him and I think their drivers are doing quite well too. I'd rather give them some credit.
It's being said that Alonso is no longer the test driver for McLaren, this with rumours that Alonso has a full program of racing for 2020, are the McLaren ties being cut?
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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:Ok, so presumably Zak Brown was only suggesting it as a way to be kind to Alonso, I get that. Its just that I wonder what Alonso could do in a competitive McLaren, could he have added that extra 9/1000th of a second to get in front of Verstappen and even split the Mercs?
No.
Really? You think Alonso isn't even 9/1000 quicker than Norris? You know that for a definite enough fact to state simply 'no?'
It's not really about that. I just don't want to play the "Alonso would have ____" game. Sick of that game to be honest. The team is doing quite well without him and I think their drivers are doing quite well too. I'd rather give them some credit.
It's being said that Alonso is no longer the test driver for McLaren, this with rumours that Alonso has a full program of racing for 2020, are the McLaren ties being cut?
Is all the evidence starting to point to Alonso/Ferrari reconciliation in 2020? It's an odd situation. Neither like each other but both really could do with the other one.

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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by pokerman »

sandman1347 wrote:An interesting silly season side note; what happened to Dan Ticktum? He's absolutely nowhere in Super Formula. Shocking really but he's just not competitive at all.
Apparently he's been dropped to be replaced by Patricio O'Ward, whether he's been dropped from the Red Bull program completely is not known.

As for O'Ward when he was signed by Red Bull it's being said they didn't fully understand his situation regarding super license points and he's well short in that respect. Given his present situation in Indycars, uncompetitive team, he has little chance of obtaining the necessary points whilst Red Bull strangely are unwilling to pay to get him a better seat.

We see this weekend that O'Ward is going to be racing in F2, although I hear it's just a one off appearance, whilst also finishing out the season in Super Formula.

So I'm wondering if Red Bull are going to pull him out of America for next year and go either the European or Japanese route to obtain super license points, a toe in the water in both series this year to see which is the best/easiest route to get the necessary points?
Last edited by pokerman on Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by Siao7 »

mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote: No.
Really? You think Alonso isn't even 9/1000 quicker than Norris? You know that for a definite enough fact to state simply 'no?'
It's not really about that. I just don't want to play the "Alonso would have ____" game. Sick of that game to be honest. The team is doing quite well without him and I think their drivers are doing quite well too. I'd rather give them some credit.
It's being said that Alonso is no longer the test driver for McLaren, this with rumours that Alonso has a full program of racing for 2020, are the McLaren ties being cut?
Is all the evidence starting to point to Alonso/Ferrari reconciliation in 2020? It's an odd situation. Neither like each other but both really could do with the other one.
RB anyone?

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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote: No.
Really? You think Alonso isn't even 9/1000 quicker than Norris? You know that for a definite enough fact to state simply 'no?'
It's not really about that. I just don't want to play the "Alonso would have ____" game. Sick of that game to be honest. The team is doing quite well without him and I think their drivers are doing quite well too. I'd rather give them some credit.
It's being said that Alonso is no longer the test driver for McLaren, this with rumours that Alonso has a full program of racing for 2020, are the McLaren ties being cut?
Is all the evidence starting to point to Alonso/Ferrari reconciliation in 2020? It's an odd situation. Neither like each other but both really could do with the other one.
There are rumours but then again there are always rumours surrounding Ferrari and Alonso and it always emanates from people who want to see him back there rather from anyone actually connected with Ferrari.

This one I guess runs on the back of Vettel retiring from F1, Vettel has made some negative noises recently about F1, Mercedes always winning etc., if that did happen then I would see Alonso as a shoe in on a 1 year contract, but I don't really see Vettel retiring at the end of the year, I at least see him lasting out his present contract.
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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by pokerman »

Siao7 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Exediron wrote: Really? You think Alonso isn't even 9/1000 quicker than Norris? You know that for a definite enough fact to state simply 'no?'
It's not really about that. I just don't want to play the "Alonso would have ____" game. Sick of that game to be honest. The team is doing quite well without him and I think their drivers are doing quite well too. I'd rather give them some credit.
It's being said that Alonso is no longer the test driver for McLaren, this with rumours that Alonso has a full program of racing for 2020, are the McLaren ties being cut?
Is all the evidence starting to point to Alonso/Ferrari reconciliation in 2020? It's an odd situation. Neither like each other but both really could do with the other one.
RB anyone?
That would be quite amazing but one stumbling block I see immediately is Honda.
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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by Siao7 »

pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote: It's not really about that. I just don't want to play the "Alonso would have ____" game. Sick of that game to be honest. The team is doing quite well without him and I think their drivers are doing quite well too. I'd rather give them some credit.
It's being said that Alonso is no longer the test driver for McLaren, this with rumours that Alonso has a full program of racing for 2020, are the McLaren ties being cut?
Is all the evidence starting to point to Alonso/Ferrari reconciliation in 2020? It's an odd situation. Neither like each other but both really could do with the other one.
RB anyone?
That would be quite amazing but one stumbling block I see immediately is Honda.
I know, but then again he was never going back to Macca the way he left the first time either...

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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by mikeyg123 »

Unless Red Bull lose Verstappen and build a quicker car they don't need Alonso. Ferrari kind of might.

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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by sandman1347 »

Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote: It's being said that Alonso is no longer the test driver for McLaren, this with rumours that Alonso has a full program of racing for 2020, are the McLaren ties being cut?
Is all the evidence starting to point to Alonso/Ferrari reconciliation in 2020? It's an odd situation. Neither like each other but both really could do with the other one.
RB anyone?
That would be quite amazing but one stumbling block I see immediately is Honda.
I know, but then again he was never going back to Macca the way he left the first time either...
Racing teams are like women though. The older you get, the less likely they are to take you back...

Siao7
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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by Siao7 »

sandman1347 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Is all the evidence starting to point to Alonso/Ferrari reconciliation in 2020? It's an odd situation. Neither like each other but both really could do with the other one.
RB anyone?
That would be quite amazing but one stumbling block I see immediately is Honda.
I know, but then again he was never going back to Macca the way he left the first time either...
Racing teams are like women though. The older you get, the less likely they are to take you back...
That's fair enough and usually the norm. Maybe Alonso thinks that he is kind of Clooney!

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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by pokerman »

Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote: It's being said that Alonso is no longer the test driver for McLaren, this with rumours that Alonso has a full program of racing for 2020, are the McLaren ties being cut?
Is all the evidence starting to point to Alonso/Ferrari reconciliation in 2020? It's an odd situation. Neither like each other but both really could do with the other one.
RB anyone?
That would be quite amazing but one stumbling block I see immediately is Honda.
I know, but then again he was never going back to Macca the way he left the first time either...
Still a different dynamic though, Alonso fell out as much with Mercedes as he did with McLaren and it was very much Honda that wanted Alonso and I believe it was them that actually paid Alonso?

They wanted Alonso because he was a top driver and like it or not Button was not quite seen at that level, Red Bull have Verstappen.
Last edited by pokerman on Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:Unless Red Bull lose Verstappen and build a quicker car they don't need Alonso. Ferrari kind of might.
Can Verstappen leave next year?

Alonso joining Ferrari would mean sacking one of their contracted drivers.
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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Unless Red Bull lose Verstappen and build a quicker car they don't need Alonso. Ferrari kind of might.
Can Verstappen leave next year?

Alonso joining Ferrari would mean sacking one of their contracted drivers.
I only see Alonso at Ferrari in 2020 if Vettel retires.

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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by sandman1347 »

mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Unless Red Bull lose Verstappen and build a quicker car they don't need Alonso. Ferrari kind of might.
Can Verstappen leave next year?

Alonso joining Ferrari would mean sacking one of their contracted drivers.
I only see Alonso at Ferrari in 2020 if Vettel retires.
I've never subscribed to the idea that Vettel will retire. Never heard Vettel say anything about it and these early retirement rumors are notoriously bogus. I remember people claiming that Hamilton would retire after winning his third title.

In looking at different scenarios; I think it's possible that Vettel might find himself in the same position with Ferrari going into 2021 as Alonso was going into 2015. Basically, he will have been there for several years without managing to win a championship and it might be times for both parties to part ways. If that were to happen and if Hamilton and Verstappen were to remain with their current teams, that would basically leave only Alonso and Ricciardo as qualified candidates for the seat. I'd like to imagine that Ferrari would go with Daniel but it's entirely possible that they wouldn't.

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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by mikeyg123 »

sandman1347 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Unless Red Bull lose Verstappen and build a quicker car they don't need Alonso. Ferrari kind of might.
Can Verstappen leave next year?

Alonso joining Ferrari would mean sacking one of their contracted drivers.
I only see Alonso at Ferrari in 2020 if Vettel retires.
I've never subscribed to the idea that Vettel will retire. Never heard Vettel say anything about it and these early retirement rumors are notoriously bogus. I remember people claiming that Hamilton would retire after winning his third title.

In looking at different scenarios; I think it's possible that Vettel might find himself in the same position with Ferrari going into 2021 as Alonso was going into 2015. Basically, he will have been there for several years without managing to win a championship and it might be times for both parties to part ways. If that were to happen and if Hamilton and Verstappen were to remain with their current teams, that would basically leave only Alonso and Ricciardo as qualified candidates for the seat. I'd like to imagine that Ferrari would go with Daniel but it's entirely possible that they wouldn't.
two things on that - I think in that scenario he would at least size up how Ferrari were going to go in 2021 unless Leclerc is clearly beating him. In that scenario Ferrari don't need to look for a number 1 driver.

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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Unless Red Bull lose Verstappen and build a quicker car they don't need Alonso. Ferrari kind of might.
Can Verstappen leave next year?

Alonso joining Ferrari would mean sacking one of their contracted drivers.
I only see Alonso at Ferrari in 2020 if Vettel retires.
Yeah and I think that's were all the rumours emanate from anyway?
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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by pokerman »

sandman1347 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Unless Red Bull lose Verstappen and build a quicker car they don't need Alonso. Ferrari kind of might.
Can Verstappen leave next year?

Alonso joining Ferrari would mean sacking one of their contracted drivers.
I only see Alonso at Ferrari in 2020 if Vettel retires.
I've never subscribed to the idea that Vettel will retire. Never heard Vettel say anything about it and these early retirement rumors are notoriously bogus. I remember people claiming that Hamilton would retire after winning his third title.

In looking at different scenarios; I think it's possible that Vettel might find himself in the same position with Ferrari going into 2021 as Alonso was going into 2015. Basically, he will have been there for several years without managing to win a championship and it might be times for both parties to part ways. If that were to happen and if Hamilton and Verstappen were to remain with their current teams, that would basically leave only Alonso and Ricciardo as qualified candidates for the seat. I'd like to imagine that Ferrari would go with Daniel but it's entirely possible that they wouldn't.
In that scenario I think their shopping list might like something like this:-

1. Verstappen (because of his age, but he may stay at Red Bull)
2. Hamilton (but no way I see him leaving Mercedes)
3. Ricciardo (he would leave Renault in a shot)
4. Alonso (he would snap up the seat)
Last edited by pokerman on Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Unless Red Bull lose Verstappen and build a quicker car they don't need Alonso. Ferrari kind of might.
Can Verstappen leave next year?

Alonso joining Ferrari would mean sacking one of their contracted drivers.
I only see Alonso at Ferrari in 2020 if Vettel retires.
I've never subscribed to the idea that Vettel will retire. Never heard Vettel say anything about it and these early retirement rumors are notoriously bogus. I remember people claiming that Hamilton would retire after winning his third title.

In looking at different scenarios; I think it's possible that Vettel might find himself in the same position with Ferrari going into 2021 as Alonso was going into 2015. Basically, he will have been there for several years without managing to win a championship and it might be times for both parties to part ways. If that were to happen and if Hamilton and Verstappen were to remain with their current teams, that would basically leave only Alonso and Ricciardo as qualified candidates for the seat. I'd like to imagine that Ferrari would go with Daniel but it's entirely possible that they wouldn't.
two things on that - I think in that scenario he would at least size up how Ferrari were going to go in 2021 unless Leclerc is clearly beating him. In that scenario Ferrari don't need to look for a number 1 driver.
It might not be Vettel's choice to make anyway depending on whom might be available?
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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by sandman1347 »

pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:An interesting silly season side note; what happened to Dan Ticktum? He's absolutely nowhere in Super Formula. Shocking really but he's just not competitive at all.
Apparently he's been dropped to be replaced by Patricio O'Ward, whether he's been dropped from the Red Bull program completely is not known.

As for O'Ward when he was signed by Red Bull it's being said they didn't fully understand his situation regarding super license points and he's well short in that respect. Given his present situation in Indycars, uncompetitive team, he has little chance of obtaining the necessary points whilst Red Bull strangely are unwilling to pay to get him a better seat.

We see this weekend that O'Ward is going to be racing in F2, although I hear it's just a one off appearance, whilst also finishing out the season in Super Formula.

So I'm wondering if Red Bull are going to pull him out of America for next year and go either the European or Japanese route to obtain super license points, a toe in the water in both series this year to see which is the best/easiest route to get the necessary points?
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14443 ... -programme

Officially dropped from the entire program.

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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by sandman1347 »

Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:An interesting silly season side note; what happened to Dan Ticktum? He's absolutely nowhere in Super Formula. Shocking really but he's just not competitive at all.
It doesn't surprise me, but then I've never really bought into the Ticktum hype. Aside from winning Macau twice, he's never looked special.

In his defense, however, he's less nowhere than Markelov.
I was also never a believer in Dan. I think the well has dried up with the RBR young driver program. Since Max and Carlos came up they haven't produced anyone else that's too special. I like Albon too and I think he's got a long career ahead of him but that's one solid driver in the last 5 years. Mercedes and Ferrari have eaten into their turf big time.

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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by Jenson's Understeer »

Talking of Sainz, I said it repeatedly at the time but man oh man should Red Bull have promoted him rather than Gasly. Even if all Sainz had done was just finished last of the Ferrari/Mercedes/Red Bulls at the races where Gasly has finished but not achieved that, it would've been worth an extra 23 points already. Would've meant Red Bull were 38 points back on Ferrari rather than 61.
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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by JN23 »

Jenson's Understeer wrote:Talking of Sainz, I said it repeatedly at the time but man oh man should Red Bull have promoted him rather than Gasly. Even if all Sainz had done was just finished last of the Ferrari/Mercedes/Red Bulls at the races where Gasly has finished but not achieved that, it would've been worth an extra 23 points already. Would've meant Red Bull were 38 points back on Ferrari rather than 61.
Wasn't there a burning of bridges between Sainz and Red Bull though when he went on loan to Renault? Also not sure him and Verstappen got on, so Sainz being promoted to Red Bull might not have pleased Verstappen.

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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by UnlikeUday »

pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Unless Red Bull lose Verstappen and build a quicker car they don't need Alonso. Ferrari kind of might.
Can Verstappen leave next year?

Alonso joining Ferrari would mean sacking one of their contracted drivers.
If Verstappen does leave as per his contract's exit clause, he probably would join Mercedes. It's assumed Vettel would then join Red Bull & the cherry on the icing, Alonso would fill in his place at Ferrari.

This summer break & the races that would follow, should bring on some shock moves!
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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by Jenson's Understeer »

JN23 wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:Talking of Sainz, I said it repeatedly at the time but man oh man should Red Bull have promoted him rather than Gasly. Even if all Sainz had done was just finished last of the Ferrari/Mercedes/Red Bulls at the races where Gasly has finished but not achieved that, it would've been worth an extra 23 points already. Would've meant Red Bull were 38 points back on Ferrari rather than 61.
Wasn't there a burning of bridges between Sainz and Red Bull though when he went on loan to Renault? Also not sure him and Verstappen got on, so Sainz being promoted to Red Bull might not have pleased Verstappen.
Oh yeah, I mean I acknowledged all of that way back when (admittedly not in the post you've quoted so you obviously wouldn't have known that unless you remembered my specific posts from before, which is pretty unlikely!) as the potential negatives of the move. But Red Bull could quite easily have made it clear the two had to co-exist (read as: you need to co-exist with Max, Carlos). They still would've had Gasly waiting in the wings so if things did become really bad, the option was there to drop Sainz for Gasly. It might not have been a perfect option but is it any worse than promoting Gasly before he's ready and torpedoing his Red Bull career in the space of half a season?
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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by Mercedes-Benz »

UnlikeUday wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Unless Red Bull lose Verstappen and build a quicker car they don't need Alonso. Ferrari kind of might.
Can Verstappen leave next year?

Alonso joining Ferrari would mean sacking one of their contracted drivers.
If Verstappen does leave as per his contract's exit clause, he probably would join Mercedes. It's assumed Vettel would then join Red Bull & the cherry on the icing, Alonso would fill in his place at Ferrari.

This summer break & the races that would follow, should bring on some shock moves!
This is just wild imagination. lol. There will be a seat available at RBR though as I think Gasly is really struggling with the car.
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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by pokerman »

sandman1347 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:An interesting silly season side note; what happened to Dan Ticktum? He's absolutely nowhere in Super Formula. Shocking really but he's just not competitive at all.
Apparently he's been dropped to be replaced by Patricio O'Ward, whether he's been dropped from the Red Bull program completely is not known.

As for O'Ward when he was signed by Red Bull it's being said they didn't fully understand his situation regarding super license points and he's well short in that respect. Given his present situation in Indycars, uncompetitive team, he has little chance of obtaining the necessary points whilst Red Bull strangely are unwilling to pay to get him a better seat.

We see this weekend that O'Ward is going to be racing in F2, although I hear it's just a one off appearance, whilst also finishing out the season in Super Formula.

So I'm wondering if Red Bull are going to pull him out of America for next year and go either the European or Japanese route to obtain super license points, a toe in the water in both series this year to see which is the best/easiest route to get the necessary points?
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14443 ... -programme

Officially dropped from the entire program.
Yeah I've heard that mentioned now on Sky F1. :thumbup:
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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by pokerman »

sandman1347 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:An interesting silly season side note; what happened to Dan Ticktum? He's absolutely nowhere in Super Formula. Shocking really but he's just not competitive at all.
It doesn't surprise me, but then I've never really bought into the Ticktum hype. Aside from winning Macau twice, he's never looked special.

In his defense, however, he's less nowhere than Markelov.
I was also never a believer in Dan. I think the well has dried up with the RBR young driver program. Since Max and Carlos came up they haven't produced anyone else that's too special. I like Albon too and I think he's got a long career ahead of him but that's one solid driver in the last 5 years. Mercedes and Ferrari have eaten into their turf big time.
Verstappen was never actually a product of the junior program whilst Albon got dropped from the program, they both got signed directly to race for STR from outside the program.
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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by pokerman »

UnlikeUday wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Unless Red Bull lose Verstappen and build a quicker car they don't need Alonso. Ferrari kind of might.
Can Verstappen leave next year?

Alonso joining Ferrari would mean sacking one of their contracted drivers.
If Verstappen does leave as per his contract's exit clause, he probably would join Mercedes. It's assumed Vettel would then join Red Bull & the cherry on the icing, Alonso would fill in his place at Ferrari.

This summer break & the races that would follow, should bring on some shock moves!
Vettel is contracted to Ferrari for 2020.
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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by Exediron »

pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Unless Red Bull lose Verstappen and build a quicker car they don't need Alonso. Ferrari kind of might.
Can Verstappen leave next year?

Alonso joining Ferrari would mean sacking one of their contracted drivers.
If Verstappen does leave as per his contract's exit clause, he probably would join Mercedes. It's assumed Vettel would then join Red Bull & the cherry on the icing, Alonso would fill in his place at Ferrari.

This summer break & the races that would follow, should bring on some shock moves!
Vettel is contracted to Ferrari for 2020.
That's never stopped anyone before...
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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by sandman1347 »

Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Unless Red Bull lose Verstappen and build a quicker car they don't need Alonso. Ferrari kind of might.
Can Verstappen leave next year?

Alonso joining Ferrari would mean sacking one of their contracted drivers.
If Verstappen does leave as per his contract's exit clause, he probably would join Mercedes. It's assumed Vettel would then join Red Bull & the cherry on the icing, Alonso would fill in his place at Ferrari.

This summer break & the races that would follow, should bring on some shock moves!
Vettel is contracted to Ferrari for 2020.
That's never stopped anyone before...
I wouldn't get your hopes up for some huge shakeup with the big teams for next year. It's almost certainly 2021 where that will happen. The contracts just line up that way and I don't think any of the teams or drivers will want to make rash or foolish decisions this year with regards to swaps.

I do predict Hamilton to Ferrari in 2021 and I also predict Max to Mercedes in that same year. I think Charles will stay put and Vettel will likely go back to RBR or, failing that, McLaren. I like Sainz to either go to Haas or remain at McLaren, depending on what Vettel does. I like Norris to stay put. I like Ocon to either be in the other Merc seat (should be a tense teammate situation) or go to Haas for 2020. Wherever Ocon ends up in 2020, he will remain there in 2021. Finally, the one and only Big 3 move that I think will happen for 2020 is Kvyat back at RBR. He will have well and truly earned that seat by the end of this year.

Now Daniel is another strange story. I can see him at McLaren in 2021 or at Renault if things really start heading in the right direction. I doubt that Renault will find their way back to the front though. They just don't seem to have the leadership or direction to make that happen these days. Daniel may, again, find himself the odd man out. Even if Hamilton stays put, I think Max would go to Ferrari to replace Vettel. For Daniel to get in with a top team, he would either need both Lewis and Max to stay where they are, or he would need either Renault or McLaren to become top teams again.

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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by Exediron »

sandman1347 wrote:I wouldn't get your hopes up for some huge shakeup with the big teams for next year. It's almost certainly 2021 where that will happen. The contracts just line up that way and I don't think any of the teams or drivers will want to make rash or foolish decisions this year with regards to swaps.

I do predict Hamilton to Ferrari in 2021 and I also predict Max to Mercedes in that same year. I think Charles will stay put and Vettel will likely go back to RBR or, failing that, McLaren. I like Sainz to either go to Haas or remain at McLaren, depending on what Vettel does. I like Norris to stay put. I like Ocon to either be in the other Merc seat (should be a tense teammate situation) or go to Haas for 2020. Wherever Ocon ends up in 2020, he will remain there in 2021. Finally, the one and only Big 3 move that I think will happen for 2020 is Kvyat back at RBR. He will have well and truly earned that seat by the end of this year.

Now Daniel is another strange story. I can see him at McLaren in 2021 or at Renault if things really start heading in the right direction. I doubt that Renault will find their way back to the front though. They just don't seem to have the leadership or direction to make that happen these days. Daniel may, again, find himself the odd man out. Even if Hamilton stays put, I think Max would go to Ferrari to replace Vettel. For Daniel to get in with a top team, he would either need both Lewis and Max to stay where they are, or he would need either Renault or McLaren to become top teams again.
I'm not invested in any big driver changes, I'm just pointing out that F1 contracts aren't worth a whole lot. If there's a will between both the driver and the team to loosen it up, they can and will.

I don't really see most of your forecasts happening, however. By 2021 I think Charles will be firmly entrenched in Ferrari as #1, and Ferrari won't be looking to partner him with another top driver. That second seat won't be open to either Max or Lewis, IMO, which makes the rest of it pretty moot.
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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by UnlikeUday »

Gasly surely could be in trouble. Before the 1st corner, Gasly was ahead of Verstappen. Before the race was over, he was lapped by Verstappen.
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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by BMWSauber84 »

UnlikeUday wrote:Gasly surely could be in trouble. Before the 1st corner, Gasly was ahead of Verstappen. Before the race was over, he was lapped by Verstappen.
Marko keeps insisting that Gasly will get the season. I'm not at all convinced that will be the case.

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Re: Silly Season 2020!

Post by sandman1347 »

Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:I wouldn't get your hopes up for some huge shakeup with the big teams for next year. It's almost certainly 2021 where that will happen. The contracts just line up that way and I don't think any of the teams or drivers will want to make rash or foolish decisions this year with regards to swaps.

I do predict Hamilton to Ferrari in 2021 and I also predict Max to Mercedes in that same year. I think Charles will stay put and Vettel will likely go back to RBR or, failing that, McLaren. I like Sainz to either go to Haas or remain at McLaren, depending on what Vettel does. I like Norris to stay put. I like Ocon to either be in the other Merc seat (should be a tense teammate situation) or go to Haas for 2020. Wherever Ocon ends up in 2020, he will remain there in 2021. Finally, the one and only Big 3 move that I think will happen for 2020 is Kvyat back at RBR. He will have well and truly earned that seat by the end of this year.

Now Daniel is another strange story. I can see him at McLaren in 2021 or at Renault if things really start heading in the right direction. I doubt that Renault will find their way back to the front though. They just don't seem to have the leadership or direction to make that happen these days. Daniel may, again, find himself the odd man out. Even if Hamilton stays put, I think Max would go to Ferrari to replace Vettel. For Daniel to get in with a top team, he would either need both Lewis and Max to stay where they are, or he would need either Renault or McLaren to become top teams again.
I'm not invested in any big driver changes, I'm just pointing out that F1 contracts aren't worth a whole lot. If there's a will between both the driver and the team to loosen it up, they can and will.

I don't really see most of your forecasts happening, however. By 2021 I think Charles will be firmly entrenched in Ferrari as #1, and Ferrari won't be looking to partner him with another top driver. That second seat won't be open to either Max or Lewis, IMO, which makes the rest of it pretty moot.
If that's the case then we'll either see Max join Lewis at Mercedes, or (perhaps more likely) we'll see all three of them stay put.

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