Silly Season 2020 (Kubica joins Alfa Romeo)!

UnlikeUday · Post by **UnlikeUday** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:48 pm

The reason I'm starting this thread early (I had started Silly Season 2019 early as well) for 2 reasons.

1. Literally most of the drivers have contracts that continue into next year as well. We're in due for a subdued silly season for 2020.
2. The only one in the Mercedes camp who'll be unhappy is Ocon. It was assumed Bottas would start off slow & struggle against Hamilton which would prompt Toto to sign his protege waiting in the wings. But things are completely the opposite as Bottas is matching Hamilton & as of now seems Hamilton's only title competitior. So where does this leave Ocon now going into 2020? Ocon had said if he doesn't get a good drive in 2020 in F1, he rather would drive elsewhere instead of sitting it out in the simulator & pit garage.

The contract info of the drivers:

Mercedes:
Lewis Hamilton - Contracted till 2020
Valtteri Bottas - Contract expires in 2019, extendable option for 2020

Ferrari:
Sebastian Vettel - Contracted till 2020
Charles Leclerc - Multi year deal

Red Bull:
Max Verstappen - Contracted till 2020
Pierre Gasly - Contracted till 2020 (?)

Renault:
Nico Hulkenberg - Contract expires in 2019
Daniel Ricciardo - Multi year deal

Racing Point:
Sergio Perez - Contract expires in 2019
Lance Stroll - Multi year deal

McLaren:
Carlos Sainz - Multi year deal
Lando Norris - Multi year deal

Haas:
Romain Grosjean - Contract expires in 2019
Kevin Magnussen - Contract expires in 2019

Toro Rosso:
Alexander Albon - Multi year deal
Daniil Kvyat - Contract expires in 2019 (?)

Alfa Romeo:
Kimi Raikkonen - Contracted till 2020
Antonio Giovinazzi - Contract expires in 2019 (?)

Williams:
George Russell - Contracted till 2020
Robert Kubica - Contract expires in 2019 (?)

mcdo · Post by **mcdo** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:55 pm

What about circuit silly season?

Zandvoort in, Barcelona out
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14307 ... 0-calendar

UnlikeUday · Post by **UnlikeUday** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:24 pm

mcdo wrote:What about circuit silly season?

Zandvoort in, Barcelona out
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14307 ... 0-calendar

I always felt Barcelona was the most boring circuit but seeing Zandvoort's layout, I'm hoping it's a better replacement for 2020.

Source - http://snaplap.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.c ... dvoort.jpg

mikeyg123 · Post by **mikeyg123** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:03 pm

UnlikeUday wrote:
mcdo wrote:What about circuit silly season?

Zandvoort in, Barcelona out
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14307 ... 0-calendar
I always felt Barcelona was the most boring circuit but seeing Zandvoort's layout, I'm hoping it's a better replacement for 2020.

Source - http://snaplap.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.c ... dvoort.jpg

Zandvoort is a great layout that flows really well but won't be good for overtaking.

Harpo · Post by **Harpo** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:52 pm

Zandvoort was perfect when cars were smaller and narrower. Not sure it's that perfect for today's buses.
And it had a problem with the sand spread on the track by the wind (which is not a surprise considering the name of the place...). Not sure they moved the beach a little further.

And that's where Piers Courage and Roger Willamson died.

mikeyg123 · Post by **mikeyg123** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:23 pm

I think Ocon may have a chance at STR or even Red Bull if he leaves the Merc umbrella. I wouldn't count him out of the Merc drive for 2020 yet either. Merc will be wary of Bottas' usual fade once a contract is sorted out.

JN23 · Post by **JN23** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:16 pm

mikeyg123 wrote:I think Ocon may have a chance at STR or even Red Bull if he leaves the Merc umbrella. I wouldn't count him out of the Merc drive for 2020 yet either. Merc will be wary of Bottas' usual fade once a contract is sorted out.

Agree that Ocon has options if he leaves the Merc umbrella. I could see him at Haas as both Grosjean and Magnussen are out of contract this year.

I reckon Merc will leave Bottas' contract as long as possible.

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:03 pm

JN23 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:I think Ocon may have a chance at STR or even Red Bull if he leaves the Merc umbrella. I wouldn't count him out of the Merc drive for 2020 yet either. Merc will be wary of Bottas' usual fade once a contract is sorted out.
Agree that Ocon has options if he leaves the Merc umbrella. I could see him at Haas as both Grosjean and Magnussen are out of contract this year.

I reckon Merc will leave Bottas' contract as long as possible.

If they re-sign Bottas then they may well let Ocon go knowing they still have Russell?

JN23 · Post by **JN23** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:40 pm

pokerman wrote:
JN23 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:I think Ocon may have a chance at STR or even Red Bull if he leaves the Merc umbrella. I wouldn't count him out of the Merc drive for 2020 yet either. Merc will be wary of Bottas' usual fade once a contract is sorted out.
Agree that Ocon has options if he leaves the Merc umbrella. I could see him at Haas as both Grosjean and Magnussen are out of contract this year.

I reckon Merc will leave Bottas' contract as long as possible.
If they re-sign Bottas then they may well let Ocon go knowing they still have Russell?

Yeah good point, something else to consider. Might be tricky for Merc to judge Russell in race conditions with the Williams car the way it is and Kubica as his teammate.

mikeyg123 · Post by **mikeyg123** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:52 pm

pokerman wrote:
JN23 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:I think Ocon may have a chance at STR or even Red Bull if he leaves the Merc umbrella. I wouldn't count him out of the Merc drive for 2020 yet either. Merc will be wary of Bottas' usual fade once a contract is sorted out.
Agree that Ocon has options if he leaves the Merc umbrella. I could see him at Haas as both Grosjean and Magnussen are out of contract this year.

I reckon Merc will leave Bottas' contract as long as possible.
If they re-sign Bottas then they may well let Ocon go knowing they still have Russell?

Merc won't hold Ocon another year. They'll either give him a seat or let him go.

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Wed May 01, 2019 12:26 am

JN23 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
JN23 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:I think Ocon may have a chance at STR or even Red Bull if he leaves the Merc umbrella. I wouldn't count him out of the Merc drive for 2020 yet either. Merc will be wary of Bottas' usual fade once a contract is sorted out.
Agree that Ocon has options if he leaves the Merc umbrella. I could see him at Haas as both Grosjean and Magnussen are out of contract this year.

I reckon Merc will leave Bottas' contract as long as possible.
If they re-sign Bottas then they may well let Ocon go knowing they still have Russell?
Yeah good point, something else to consider. Might be tricky for Merc to judge Russell in race conditions with the Williams car the way it is and Kubica as his teammate.

Well Russell will have had at least 2 seasons before that decision is taken plus will Kubica still be at Williams next season?

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Wed May 01, 2019 12:27 am

mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
JN23 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:I think Ocon may have a chance at STR or even Red Bull if he leaves the Merc umbrella. I wouldn't count him out of the Merc drive for 2020 yet either. Merc will be wary of Bottas' usual fade once a contract is sorted out.
Agree that Ocon has options if he leaves the Merc umbrella. I could see him at Haas as both Grosjean and Magnussen are out of contract this year.

I reckon Merc will leave Bottas' contract as long as possible.
If they re-sign Bottas then they may well let Ocon go knowing they still have Russell?
Merc won't hold Ocon another year. They'll either give him a seat or let him go.

Yeah very much so.

dpastern · Post by **dpastern** » Wed May 01, 2019 8:05 am

I can't see Merc letting Bottas go. He was new to the team in 2017, had a bad year of bad luck in 2018 that basically eliminated him from the WDC. Both him and Hamilton get on very well. Introducing Ocon or Max to the mix will cause many issues at Mercedes, a la Rosberg/Hamilton.

mikeyg123 · Post by **mikeyg123** » Wed May 01, 2019 8:14 am

dpastern wrote:I can't see Merc letting Bottas go. He was new to the team in 2017, had a bad year of bad luck in 2018 that basically eliminated him from the WDC. Both him and Hamilton get on very well. Introducing Ocon or Max to the mix will cause many issues at Mercedes, a la Rosberg/Hamilton.

I think if Merc got a whiff of Hamilton even considering the remotest possibility of retiring then they do everything they could to get Verstappen in.

mcdo · Post by **mcdo** » Wed May 01, 2019 12:05 pm

JN23 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
JN23 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:I think Ocon may have a chance at STR or even Red Bull if he leaves the Merc umbrella. I wouldn't count him out of the Merc drive for 2020 yet either. Merc will be wary of Bottas' usual fade once a contract is sorted out.
Agree that Ocon has options if he leaves the Merc umbrella. I could see him at Haas as both Grosjean and Magnussen are out of contract this year.

I reckon Merc will leave Bottas' contract as long as possible.
If they re-sign Bottas then they may well let Ocon go knowing they still have Russell?
Yeah good point, something else to consider. Might be tricky for Merc to judge Russell in race conditions with the Williams car the way it is and Kubica as his teammate.

Is this like the Nico Rosberg scenario - damned if he did beat an over the hill Schumacher and damned if he didn't?

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Wed May 01, 2019 12:21 pm

mikeyg123 wrote:
dpastern wrote:I can't see Merc letting Bottas go. He was new to the team in 2017, had a bad year of bad luck in 2018 that basically eliminated him from the WDC. Both him and Hamilton get on very well. Introducing Ocon or Max to the mix will cause many issues at Mercedes, a la Rosberg/Hamilton.
I think if Merc got a whiff of Hamilton even considering the remotest possibility of retiring then they do everything they could to get Verstappen in.

They already tried to get him but Verstappen decided to stay at Red Bull after they offered him a much improved contract to stave off the Mercedes interest, plus Verstappen admitted he didn't really want to join Mercedes while Hamilton was still there.

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Wed May 01, 2019 12:22 pm

mcdo wrote:
JN23 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
JN23 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:I think Ocon may have a chance at STR or even Red Bull if he leaves the Merc umbrella. I wouldn't count him out of the Merc drive for 2020 yet either. Merc will be wary of Bottas' usual fade once a contract is sorted out.
Agree that Ocon has options if he leaves the Merc umbrella. I could see him at Haas as both Grosjean and Magnussen are out of contract this year.

I reckon Merc will leave Bottas' contract as long as possible.
If they re-sign Bottas then they may well let Ocon go knowing they still have Russell?
Yeah good point, something else to consider. Might be tricky for Merc to judge Russell in race conditions with the Williams car the way it is and Kubica as his teammate.
Is this like the Nico Rosberg scenario - damned if he did beat an over the hill Schumacher and damned if he didn't?

Yeah it's a lose/lose situation for Russell much like it was for Rosberg.

mikeyg123 · Post by **mikeyg123** » Wed May 01, 2019 12:33 pm

pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
dpastern wrote:I can't see Merc letting Bottas go. He was new to the team in 2017, had a bad year of bad luck in 2018 that basically eliminated him from the WDC. Both him and Hamilton get on very well. Introducing Ocon or Max to the mix will cause many issues at Mercedes, a la Rosberg/Hamilton.
I think if Merc got a whiff of Hamilton even considering the remotest possibility of retiring then they do everything they could to get Verstappen in.
They already tried to get him but Verstappen decided to stay at Red Bull after they offered him a much improved contract to stave off the Mercedes interest, plus Verstappen admitted he didn't really want to join Mercedes while Hamilton was still there.

I think if they could sell him the idea of being the Hamilton replacement he would go.

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Wed May 01, 2019 12:59 pm

mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
dpastern wrote:I can't see Merc letting Bottas go. He was new to the team in 2017, had a bad year of bad luck in 2018 that basically eliminated him from the WDC. Both him and Hamilton get on very well. Introducing Ocon or Max to the mix will cause many issues at Mercedes, a la Rosberg/Hamilton.
I think if Merc got a whiff of Hamilton even considering the remotest possibility of retiring then they do everything they could to get Verstappen in.
They already tried to get him but Verstappen decided to stay at Red Bull after they offered him a much improved contract to stave off the Mercedes interest, plus Verstappen admitted he didn't really want to join Mercedes while Hamilton was still there.
I think if they could sell him the idea of being the Hamilton replacement he would go.

No one can know how long Hamilton intends to stay in F1?

mikeyg123 · Post by **mikeyg123** » Wed May 01, 2019 1:09 pm

pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
dpastern wrote:I can't see Merc letting Bottas go. He was new to the team in 2017, had a bad year of bad luck in 2018 that basically eliminated him from the WDC. Both him and Hamilton get on very well. Introducing Ocon or Max to the mix will cause many issues at Mercedes, a la Rosberg/Hamilton.
I think if Merc got a whiff of Hamilton even considering the remotest possibility of retiring then they do everything they could to get Verstappen in.
They already tried to get him but Verstappen decided to stay at Red Bull after they offered him a much improved contract to stave off the Mercedes interest, plus Verstappen admitted he didn't really want to join Mercedes while Hamilton was still there.
I think if they could sell him the idea of being the Hamilton replacement he would go.
No one can know how long Hamilton intends to stay in F1?

Not on the outside. As I said, I think Merc would go for Verstappen if the got hint from Hamilton he may be retiring. Maybe they won't even get a hint but if they did then they would go for Max.

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Wed May 01, 2019 1:14 pm

mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote: I think if Merc got a whiff of Hamilton even considering the remotest possibility of retiring then they do everything they could to get Verstappen in.
They already tried to get him but Verstappen decided to stay at Red Bull after they offered him a much improved contract to stave off the Mercedes interest, plus Verstappen admitted he didn't really want to join Mercedes while Hamilton was still there.
I think if they could sell him the idea of being the Hamilton replacement he would go.
No one can know how long Hamilton intends to stay in F1?
Not on the outside. As I said, I think Merc would go for Verstappen if the got hint from Hamilton he may be retiring. Maybe they won't even get a hint but if they did then they would go for Max.

Like I said they already tried to get Verstappen to pair him up with Hamilton but Verstappen said no.

mikeyg123 · Post by **mikeyg123** » Wed May 01, 2019 1:17 pm

pokerman wrote: Like I said they already tried to get Verstappen to pair him up with Hamilton but Verstappen said no.

And like I said, if they sold it to him that he was going to be replacing Hamilton he might say yes.

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Wed May 01, 2019 1:22 pm

mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote: Like I said they already tried to get Verstappen to pair him up with Hamilton but Verstappen said no.
And like I said, if they sold it to him that he was going to be replacing Hamilton he might say yes.

No that comes across as being different as in Mercedes making the decision to replace Hamilton with Verstappen regardless of what Hamilton intends to do.

UnlikeUday · Post by **UnlikeUday** » Wed May 01, 2019 1:22 pm

Did Max say no or Red Bull blocked all possible negotiations?

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Wed May 01, 2019 1:27 pm

UnlikeUday wrote:Did Max say no or Red Bull blocked all possible negotiations?

He said no but it also took the sweetener of an improved contract from Red Bull and words like the team was going to built around him which I think perhaps didn't go down to well with Ricciardo?

UnlikeUday · Post by **UnlikeUday** » Wed May 01, 2019 1:31 pm

pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:Did Max say no or Red Bull blocked all possible negotiations?
He said no but it also took the sweetener of an improved contract from Red Bull and words like the team was going to built around him which I think perhaps didn't go down to well with Ricciardo?

Anyway till Hamilton is there, Max wouldn't want to go to Mercedes & am sure Hamilton too wouldn't want Max there. Hamilton, Max & Vettel wouldn't want their numero uno status disturbed.

I wonder if Toto would go for Max if Ocon is available? No doubt Max is more skilled but if Toto would go for Max, it not only would be a royal snub to Ocon but also would question the existence of the Mercedes junior programme!

mikeyg123 · Post by **mikeyg123** » Wed May 01, 2019 1:34 pm

pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote: Like I said they already tried to get Verstappen to pair him up with Hamilton but Verstappen said no.
And like I said, if they sold it to him that he was going to be replacing Hamilton he might say yes.
No that comes across as being different as in Mercedes making the decision to replace Hamilton with Verstappen regardless of what Hamilton intends to do.

That may happen. Look at how Schumacher ended at Ferrari. Merc can't afford for Hamilton to do a Rosberg and leave them without a top driver.

UnlikeUday · Post by **UnlikeUday** » Wed May 01, 2019 1:40 pm

mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote: Like I said they already tried to get Verstappen to pair him up with Hamilton but Verstappen said no.
And like I said, if they sold it to him that he was going to be replacing Hamilton he might say yes.
No that comes across as being different as in Mercedes making the decision to replace Hamilton with Verstappen regardless of what Hamilton intends to do.
That may happen. Look at how Schumacher ended at Ferrari. Merc can't afford for Hamilton to do a Rosberg and leave them without a top driver.

But if Mercedes intends to get Max, why hold Ocon? Release him already.

pc27b · Post by **pc27b** » Wed May 01, 2019 1:40 pm

mikeyg123 wrote:
dpastern wrote:I can't see Merc letting Bottas go. He was new to the team in 2017, had a bad year of bad luck in 2018 that basically eliminated him from the WDC. Both him and Hamilton get on very well. Introducing Ocon or Max to the mix will cause many issues at Mercedes, a la Rosberg/Hamilton.
I think if Merc got a whiff of Hamilton even considering the remotest possibility of retiring then they do everything they could to get Verstappen in.

that won't happen after this season. the big dogs have seats open for 2021. ham may want to drive a ferrari for two years before retiring, may not. if he is finished with merc after next year, then yes, i think max ends up there.
way to early though, have to see how Leclerc does over the long season. vettel could retire, or want to drive for mercedes before retiring??
obviously if they go through with big changes for 2021 (i think it gets pushed back a year or two) it will be a gamble for any of the big name drivers, not knowing who is going to get the new formula right

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Wed May 01, 2019 1:46 pm

mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote: Like I said they already tried to get Verstappen to pair him up with Hamilton but Verstappen said no.
And like I said, if they sold it to him that he was going to be replacing Hamilton he might say yes.
No that comes across as being different as in Mercedes making the decision to replace Hamilton with Verstappen regardless of what Hamilton intends to do.
That may happen. Look at how Schumacher ended at Ferrari. Merc can't afford for Hamilton to do a Rosberg and leave them without a top driver.

Schumacher was 37, Hamilton is 34 and seen by many as the best driver in F1, if they oust him for Verstappen then he merely joins the main opposition probably Ferrari, Hamilton could be good to go until he's 40, it's not really good short term planning to bolster your opposition?

Jezza13 · Post by **Jezza13** » Wed May 01, 2019 1:51 pm

mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote: Like I said they already tried to get Verstappen to pair him up with Hamilton but Verstappen said no.
And like I said, if they sold it to him that he was going to be replacing Hamilton he might say yes.
No that comes across as being different as in Mercedes making the decision to replace Hamilton with Verstappen regardless of what Hamilton intends to do.
That may happen. Look at how Schumacher ended at Ferrari. Merc can't afford for Hamilton to do a Rosberg and leave them without a top driver.

I could be wrong but wasn't retirement Schumachers choice though because he was against Raikkonen joining the team?

Thinking of the Merc future, to me, it'd make sense to punt Bottas at years end, bring in Ocon for a season to see how he measures up against Hamilton.

If Hamilton retires at the end of 2020, which I think's quite possible, Merc can then make an informed choice as to which direction they'd take. If they see that maybe Ocon is more a Webber / Coulthard type driver as opposed to a Vettel / Hamilton type, that'd still leave room for then to chase a big name & i'd put a million on it that Verstappen would be top of their list & rightly so.

Jezza13 · Post by **Jezza13** » Wed May 01, 2019 1:53 pm

mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote: Like I said they already tried to get Verstappen to pair him up with Hamilton but Verstappen said no.
And like I said, if they sold it to him that he was going to be replacing Hamilton he might say yes.
No that comes across as being different as in Mercedes making the decision to replace Hamilton with Verstappen regardless of what Hamilton intends to do.
That may happen. Look at how Schumacher ended at Ferrari. Merc can't afford for Hamilton to do a Rosberg and leave them without a top driver.

I could be wrong but wasn't retirement Schumachers choice though because he was against Raikkonen joining the team?

Thinking of the Merc future, to me, it'd make sense to punt Bottas at years end, bring in Ocon for a season to see how he measures up against Hamilton.

If Hamilton retires at the end of 2020, which I think's quite possible, Merc can then make an informed choice as to which direction they'd take. If they see that maybe Ocon is more a Webber / Coulthard type driver as opposed to a Vettel / Hamilton type, that'd still leave room for then to chase a big name & i'd put a million on it that Verstappen would be top of their list & rightly so. If it looks like Ocon has the goods, that then leaves room for Russell to join up as Merc's 2nd driver.

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Wed May 01, 2019 2:25 pm

Jezza13 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote: Like I said they already tried to get Verstappen to pair him up with Hamilton but Verstappen said no.
And like I said, if they sold it to him that he was going to be replacing Hamilton he might say yes.
No that comes across as being different as in Mercedes making the decision to replace Hamilton with Verstappen regardless of what Hamilton intends to do.
That may happen. Look at how Schumacher ended at Ferrari. Merc can't afford for Hamilton to do a Rosberg and leave them without a top driver.
I could be wrong but wasn't retirement Schumachers choice though because he was against Raikkonen joining the team?

Thinking of the Merc future, to me, it'd make sense to punt Bottas at years end, bring in Ocon for a season to see how he measures up against Hamilton.

If Hamilton retires at the end of 2020, which I think's quite possible, Merc can then make an informed choice as to which direction they'd take. If they see that maybe Ocon is more a Webber / Coulthard type driver as opposed to a Vettel / Hamilton type, that'd still leave room for then to chase a big name & i'd put a million on it that Verstappen would be top of their list & rightly so.

Kimi was signed by Ferrari in 2005 I believe, because Schumacher was stalling on a new contract, he was thinking about retirement, if you remember 2005 was a bad season for Ferrari which maybe had something to do with Schumacher's thinking?

Anyway the signing of Kimi kind of ensured Schumacher was going to retire because it was going to be the end of the Ferrari #1, #2 driver policy which was the set up that Schumacher basically wanted.

Regarding Mercedes presently it would be a no brainer to not sign Bottas for 2020 but we've seen what's happened the past 2 years with Bottas when they have done that, my guess is that they will wait until around September and it will be based on how Bottas is performing rather than a need to evaluate Ocon and the need to plan for Hamilton's successor.

mcdo · Post by **mcdo** » Wed May 01, 2019 3:30 pm

pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:They already tried to get him but Verstappen decided to stay at Red Bull after they offered him a much improved contract to stave off the Mercedes interest, plus Verstappen admitted he didn't really want to join Mercedes while Hamilton was still there.
I think if they could sell him the idea of being the Hamilton replacement he would go.
No one can know how long Hamilton intends to stay in F1?
Not on the outside. As I said, I think Merc would go for Verstappen if the got hint from Hamilton he may be retiring. Maybe they won't even get a hint but if they did then they would go for Max.
Like I said they already tried to get Verstappen to pair him up with Hamilton but Verstappen said no.

When was that?

UnlikeUday · Post by **UnlikeUday** » Wed May 01, 2019 4:01 pm

@mcdo - If this did happen, it could be in mid 2018 when Bottas started to struggle. I don't think they approached Max before Bottas as Toto kind of panicked when Rosberg announced his retirement & since Toto was Bottas' manager as well, he chose Bottas in an eye blink.

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Wed May 01, 2019 4:49 pm

mcdo wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote: I think if they could sell him the idea of being the Hamilton replacement he would go.
No one can know how long Hamilton intends to stay in F1?
Not on the outside. As I said, I think Merc would go for Verstappen if the got hint from Hamilton he may be retiring. Maybe they won't even get a hint but if they did then they would go for Max.
Like I said they already tried to get Verstappen to pair him up with Hamilton but Verstappen said no.
When was that?

Just before Verstappen got his much improved and extended contract with Red Bull, this was done by Red Bull to stave off the approach from Mercedes.

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Wed May 01, 2019 4:56 pm

UnlikeUday wrote:@mcdo - If this did happen, it could be in mid 2018 when Bottas started to struggle. I don't think they approached Max before Bottas as Toto kind of panicked when Rosberg announced his retirement & since Toto was Bottas' manager as well, he chose Bottas in an eye blink.

No 2017, maybe for the 2019 season, Bottas had already signed to Mercedes for 2018, I think Verstappen may have had a get out clause in the final season of his initial contract?

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vers ... 0/3053198/

Rumours were that this had been done to stave off interest from Mercedes.

mikeyg123 · Post by **mikeyg123** » Wed May 01, 2019 4:59 pm

pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:@mcdo - If this did happen, it could be in mid 2018 when Bottas started to struggle. I don't think they approached Max before Bottas as Toto kind of panicked when Rosberg announced his retirement & since Toto was Bottas' manager as well, he chose Bottas in an eye blink.
No 2017, maybe for the 2019 season, Bottas had already signed to Mercedes for 2018, I think Verstappen may have had a get out clause in the final season of his initial contract?

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vers ... 0/3053198/

Rumours were that this had been done to stave off interest from Mercedes.

Wasn't it also rumoured that he was fast tracked into the senior team in 2016 for the same reason?

oz_karter · Post by **oz_karter** » Thu May 02, 2019 1:34 am

I can't see any changes at Mercedes for 2020, unless Bottas really drops the ball later in the season. If they get a 1-2 in the WDC and take the WCC (which seems more than likely), it will be status quo.

Gasly might be the only change in the top 3 teams. He's had a run of bad luck, but his speed is well down on Verstappen and Red Bull aren't known to be lenient for long. Wouldn't be surprised to see Albon promoted for 2020.

Haas is where I see some changes. Grosjean was very lucky to retain his seat for this year, but I don't think he'll do enough to keep it for 2020. Magnussen is likely to stay given there aren't many other seats available and he's burned his way through a few teams.

Sergio Perez might be an interesting one to watch. Racing Point are showing speed, so there's good reason to stay, but after seeing the Netflix doco I'm not sure how happy he'd be staying at Team Stroll.

Hulkenberg is out of contract, but given the lack of any better seats I think he'd stay at Renault barring disaster and Renault should be happy to keep him.

Probably will be a boring silly season with maybe a small midfield reshuffle.

Will we see Williams on the grid in 2020?

Covalent · Post by **Covalent** » Thu May 02, 2019 6:56 am

pokerman wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
And like I said, if they sold it to him that he was going to be replacing Hamilton he might say yes.
No that comes across as being different as in Mercedes making the decision to replace Hamilton with Verstappen regardless of what Hamilton intends to do.
That may happen. Look at how Schumacher ended at Ferrari. Merc can't afford for Hamilton to do a Rosberg and leave them without a top driver.
I could be wrong but wasn't retirement Schumachers choice though because he was against Raikkonen joining the team?

Thinking of the Merc future, to me, it'd make sense to punt Bottas at years end, bring in Ocon for a season to see how he measures up against Hamilton.

If Hamilton retires at the end of 2020, which I think's quite possible, Merc can then make an informed choice as to which direction they'd take. If they see that maybe Ocon is more a Webber / Coulthard type driver as opposed to a Vettel / Hamilton type, that'd still leave room for then to chase a big name & i'd put a million on it that Verstappen would be top of their list & rightly so.
Kimi was signed by Ferrari in 2005 I believe, because Schumacher was stalling on a new contract, he was thinking about retirement, if you remember 2005 was a bad season for Ferrari which maybe had something to do with Schumacher's thinking?

Anyway the signing of Kimi kind of ensured Schumacher was going to retire because it was going to be the end of the Ferrari #1, #2 driver policy which was the set up that Schumacher basically wanted.

Regarding Mercedes presently it would be a no brainer to not sign Bottas for 2020 but we've seen what's happened the past 2 years with Bottas when they have done that, my guess is that they will wait until around September and it will be based on how Bottas is performing rather than a need to evaluate Ocon and the need to plan for Hamilton's successor.

BIB; how is it a no brainer to not sign him presently?