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Re: When will Ferrari ACTUALLY have the advantage?
Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 3:27 pm
by Zoue
pokerman wrote:Zoue wrote:pokerman wrote:Siao7 wrote:pokerman wrote:
Well Covalent would be a fan of Vettel.
And? I'm not following!
A Vettel fan agreeing with Villenueve that Ferrari should have kept Kimi because it was a better working environment for Vettel?
Did he agree? I thought he just posted a link backing up what another poster had said?
A post that said that Ferrari should have retained Kimi, the link backing up what the poster said.
that doesn't necessarily mean he agrees. And regardless, that link was from a recent interview which just happened to coincide almost word for word with what the other poster was saying. What is so controversial about posting it?
Re: When will Ferrari ACTUALLY have the advantage?
Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 3:39 pm
by Altair
https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes- ... lves-down/
Home News ‘Mercedes are not talking ourselves down’
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‘Mercedes are not talking ourselves down’
Date published: May 7 2019
Toto Wolff insists Mercedes are not trying to downplay their form in their battle with Ferrari, adamant they still have a lot of room for improvement.
Although Ferrari arrived at the season-opening Australian Grand Prix looking to be the team to beat, the Scuderia have yet to claim a single race win.
Instead it has been Mercedes who have dominated.
The Brackley squad has claimed four successive 1-2 results, with Valtteri Bottas leading Lewis Hamilton by a single point in the standings.
The duo are comfortable 30 ahead of third placed Sebastian Vettel.
It has led to claims that Mercedes have been sandbagging and downplaying their form.
Wolff insists that is not the case.
“I’m sitting here [in Azerbaijan] and looking like appearing to be — what can I say? We are not talking ourselves down,” he told Motorsport Week.
“It is that we see a strong Ferrari on Friday and on Saturday, and I still believe that Charles was probably the fastest man on track [in Azerbaijan], but like in Bahrain, it didn’t come together.
“You can say now, ‘Yeah, stop saying these things – it’s the fourth one-two in a row’, but it is still very much our mindset.
“We still believe that there are so many things we need to understand better and improve.”
The Mercedes motorsport boss added that while Mercedes don’t have fastest car on the grid in their W10, it is their lack of mistakes out on track that have given them the advantage.
I have been warned that I must take Toto at face value.
So... Okay then.
Re: When will Ferrari ACTUALLY have the advantage?
Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 6:28 pm
by Todd
It probably doesn't hurt Mercedes' chances that they show up every weekend assuming they're going to have to work hard to be competitive. It seems to be working better than Cyril Abiteboul pronouncing last year that Renault is the biggest car company in the world and they have the resources to succeed or Ferrari thinking they can hold back Leclerc because they expect to make Sebastian Vettel compete for the championship.
Re: When will Ferrari ACTUALLY have the advantage?
Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 6:32 pm
by pokerman
Zoue wrote:pokerman wrote:Zoue wrote:pokerman wrote:Siao7 wrote:
And? I'm not following!
A Vettel fan agreeing with Villenueve that Ferrari should have kept Kimi because it was a better working environment for Vettel?
Did he agree? I thought he just posted a link backing up what another poster had said?
A post that said that Ferrari should have retained Kimi, the link backing up what the poster said.
that doesn't necessarily mean he agrees. And regardless, that link was from a recent interview which just happened to coincide almost word for word with what the other poster was saying. What is so controversial about posting it?
I wasn't the one that questioned bringing forward an article from Villenueve.
Re: When will Ferrari ACTUALLY have the advantage?
Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 7:53 pm
by Zoue
pokerman wrote:Zoue wrote:pokerman wrote:Zoue wrote:pokerman wrote:A Vettel fan agreeing with Villenueve that Ferrari should have kept Kimi because it was a better working environment for Vettel?
Did he agree? I thought he just posted a link backing up what another poster had said?
A post that said that Ferrari should have retained Kimi, the link backing up what the poster said.
that doesn't necessarily mean he agrees. And regardless, that link was from a recent interview which just happened to coincide almost word for word with what the other poster was saying. What is so controversial about posting it?
I wasn't the one that questioned bringing forward an article from Villenueve.
But you were the one trying to make out that Covalent being a Vettel fan was somehow relevant to him posting the article. I don't see the connection, nor why it should make any difference.
I don't think it's always necessary to second-guess people's motivations for posting things and it might be better to focus on what was posted instead, particularly when the motivation doesn't really change the message in the first place
Re: When will Ferrari ACTUALLY have the advantage?
Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 9:15 pm
by WHoff78
There are clearly very tight margins at the top and Mercedes clearly have the right attitude and approach to make sure they keep developing the car and extract everything come race weekend. We are 4 races into new regulations so there is still a long way to go in the season, not to mention 2020. Ferrari are in the same position so waiting to bring Leclerc in doesn't make much sense either. They are unlikely to develop a large advantage so they're better to take the short term pain sooner rather than later if Leclerc can bring them extra pace. They just have to accept that may make mistakes as he beds in.
Re: When will Ferrari ACTUALLY have the advantage?
Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 6:39 am
by Covalent
pokerman wrote:Siao7 wrote:pokerman wrote:Siao7 wrote:
You are reading.... Villeneuve???
Well Covalent would be a fan of Vettel.
And? I'm not following!
A Vettel fan agreeing with Villenueve that Ferrari should have kept Kimi because it was a better working environment for Vettel?
FWIW I actually don't agree with him. IMO it was absolutely the correct time to bring Leclerc in.
And yes I often stumble across Villeneuve's thoughts and usually don't opt to ignore it just because it's Villeneuve. Sometimes he can make a good point and if not then there's always the comedy value.
Re: When will Ferrari ACTUALLY have the advantage?
Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 6:41 am
by Covalent
Zoue wrote:pokerman wrote:Zoue wrote:pokerman wrote:Zoue wrote:
Did he agree? I thought he just posted a link backing up what another poster had said?
A post that said that Ferrari should have retained Kimi, the link backing up what the poster said.
that doesn't necessarily mean he agrees. And regardless, that link was from a recent interview which just happened to coincide almost word for word with what the other poster was saying. What is so controversial about posting it?
I wasn't the one that questioned bringing forward an article from Villenueve.
But you were the one trying to make out that Covalent being a Vettel fan was somehow relevant to him posting the article. I don't see the connection, nor why it should make any difference.
I don't think it's always necessary to second-guess people's motivations for posting things and it might be better to focus on what was posted instead, particularly when the motivation doesn't really change the message in the first place
Re: When will Ferrari ACTUALLY have the advantage?
Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 9:14 am
by Siao7
Todd wrote:It probably doesn't hurt Mercedes' chances that they show up every weekend assuming they're going to have to work hard to be competitive. It seems to be working better than Cyril Abiteboul pronouncing last year that Renault is the biggest car company in the world and they have the resources to succeed or Ferrari thinking they can hold back Leclerc because they expect to make Sebastian Vettel compete for the championship.
That's the bible in F1, not something new. The moment you become complacent and stop trying, you're dead meat. They are all striving every race. It does happen that when they have a monstrous car they can relax a bit in the end, but especially at this point in the year it is a given that you take each race as if you are fighting for your life.
Re: When will Ferrari ACTUALLY have the advantage?
Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 9:16 am
by Siao7
Covalent wrote:pokerman wrote:Siao7 wrote:pokerman wrote:Siao7 wrote:
You are reading.... Villeneuve???
Well Covalent would be a fan of Vettel.
And? I'm not following!
A Vettel fan agreeing with Villenueve that Ferrari should have kept Kimi because it was a better working environment for Vettel?
FWIW I actually don't agree with him. IMO it was absolutely the correct time to bring Leclerc in.
And yes I often stumble across Villeneuve's thoughts and usually don't opt to ignore it just because it's Villeneuve. Sometimes he can make a good point and if not then there's always the comedy value.
I agree too. I think my sarcasm was lost with Poker in this post.
Re: When will Ferrari ACTUALLY have the advantage?
Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 10:06 pm
by pokerman
Zoue wrote:pokerman wrote:Zoue wrote:pokerman wrote:Zoue wrote:
Did he agree? I thought he just posted a link backing up what another poster had said?
A post that said that Ferrari should have retained Kimi, the link backing up what the poster said.
that doesn't necessarily mean he agrees. And regardless, that link was from a recent interview which just happened to coincide almost word for word with what the other poster was saying. What is so controversial about posting it?
I wasn't the one that questioned bringing forward an article from Villenueve.
But you were the one trying to make out that Covalent being a Vettel fan was somehow relevant to him posting the article. I don't see the connection, nor why it should make any difference.
I don't think it's always necessary to second-guess people's motivations for posting things and it might be better to focus on what was posted instead, particularly when the motivation doesn't really change the message in the first place
Bringing forward an article that agrees with what a poster has said is not backing up that post, ok.
Re: When will Ferrari ACTUALLY have the advantage?
Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 10:08 pm
by pokerman
Covalent wrote:pokerman wrote:Siao7 wrote:pokerman wrote:Siao7 wrote:
You are reading.... Villeneuve???
Well Covalent would be a fan of Vettel.
And? I'm not following!
A Vettel fan agreeing with Villenueve that Ferrari should have kept Kimi because it was a better working environment for Vettel?
FWIW I actually don't agree with him. IMO it was absolutely the correct time to bring Leclerc in.
And yes I often stumble across Villeneuve's thoughts and usually don't opt to ignore it just because it's Villeneuve. Sometimes he can make a good point and if not then there's always the comedy value.
Ok it's just a bit confusing bringing forward an article you don't agree with.
Re: When will Ferrari ACTUALLY have the advantage?
Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 10:13 pm
by pokerman
Siao7 wrote:Covalent wrote:pokerman wrote:Siao7 wrote:pokerman wrote:
Well Covalent would be a fan of Vettel.
And? I'm not following!
A Vettel fan agreeing with Villenueve that Ferrari should have kept Kimi because it was a better working environment for Vettel?
FWIW I actually don't agree with him. IMO it was absolutely the correct time to bring Leclerc in.
And yes I often stumble across Villeneuve's thoughts and usually don't opt to ignore it just because it's Villeneuve. Sometimes he can make a good point and if not then there's always the comedy value.
I agree too. I think my sarcasm was lost with Poker in this post.
I understood the sarcasm in respect to Villenueve being someone you would largely ignore.
Re: When will Ferrari ACTUALLY have the advantage?
Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 10:35 pm
by Zoue
pokerman wrote:Zoue wrote:pokerman wrote:Zoue wrote:pokerman wrote:
A post that said that Ferrari should have retained Kimi, the link backing up what the poster said.
that doesn't necessarily mean he agrees. And regardless, that link was from a recent interview which just happened to coincide almost word for word with what the other poster was saying. What is so controversial about posting it?
I wasn't the one that questioned bringing forward an article from Villenueve.
But you were the one trying to make out that Covalent being a Vettel fan was somehow relevant to him posting the article. I don't see the connection, nor why it should make any difference.
I don't think it's always necessary to second-guess people's motivations for posting things and it might be better to focus on what was posted instead, particularly when the motivation doesn't really change the message in the first place
Bringing forward an article that agrees with what a poster has said is not backing up that post, ok.
not what was said
Re: When will Ferrari ACTUALLY have the advantage?
Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 9:06 am
by Siao7
pokerman wrote:Siao7 wrote:Covalent wrote:pokerman wrote:Siao7 wrote:
And? I'm not following!
A Vettel fan agreeing with Villenueve that Ferrari should have kept Kimi because it was a better working environment for Vettel?
FWIW I actually don't agree with him. IMO it was absolutely the correct time to bring Leclerc in.
And yes I often stumble across Villeneuve's thoughts and usually don't opt to ignore it just because it's Villeneuve. Sometimes he can make a good point and if not then there's always the comedy value.
I agree too. I think my sarcasm was lost with Poker in this post.
I understood the sarcasm in respect to Villenueve being someone you would largely ignore.
But you still missed the whole point and ended up discussing this in the last 10 posts??? The point being what Zoue said above about second guessing people.
Re: When will Ferrari ACTUALLY have the advantage?
Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 12:26 pm
by pokerman
Siao7 wrote:pokerman wrote:Siao7 wrote:Covalent wrote:pokerman wrote:
A Vettel fan agreeing with Villenueve that Ferrari should have kept Kimi because it was a better working environment for Vettel?
FWIW I actually don't agree with him. IMO it was absolutely the correct time to bring Leclerc in.
And yes I often stumble across Villeneuve's thoughts and usually don't opt to ignore it just because it's Villeneuve. Sometimes he can make a good point and if not then there's always the comedy value.
I agree too. I think my sarcasm was lost with Poker in this post.
I understood the sarcasm in respect to Villenueve being someone you would largely ignore.
But you still missed the whole point and ended up discussing this in the last 10 posts??? The point being what Zoue said above about second guessing people.
Why bring forward an article that backs up what someone posted when you don't even agree with the article and we're supposed to know that?
Re: When will Ferrari ACTUALLY have the advantage?
Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 12:35 pm
by Zoue
pokerman wrote:Siao7 wrote:pokerman wrote:Siao7 wrote:Covalent wrote:FWIW I actually don't agree with him. IMO it was absolutely the correct time to bring Leclerc in.
And yes I often stumble across Villeneuve's thoughts and usually don't opt to ignore it just because it's Villeneuve. Sometimes he can make a good point and if not then there's always the comedy value.
I agree too. I think my sarcasm was lost with Poker in this post.
I understood the sarcasm in respect to Villenueve being someone you would largely ignore.
But you still missed the whole point and ended up discussing this in the last 10 posts??? The point being what Zoue said above about second guessing people.
Why bring forward an article that backs up what someone posted when you don't even agree with the article and we're supposed to know that?
It doesn't matter whether we know that or not. The article is relevant because it echoes what the previous poster had said. There's no rule that says posting a link means you endorse what's in the link and frankly the poster's own feelings on the matter aren't strictly relevant as they are simply quoting someone else.
You are trying to make out that Covalent being a Vettel fan is central to the point being made, whereas it's actually irrelevant
Re: When will Ferrari ACTUALLY have the advantage?
Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 12:56 pm
by Siao7
Zoue wrote:pokerman wrote:Siao7 wrote:pokerman wrote:Siao7 wrote:
I agree too. I think my sarcasm was lost with Poker in this post.
I understood the sarcasm in respect to Villenueve being someone you would largely ignore.
But you still missed the whole point and ended up discussing this in the last 10 posts??? The point being what Zoue said above about second guessing people.
Why bring forward an article that backs up what someone posted when you don't even agree with the article and we're supposed to know that?
It doesn't matter whether we know that or not. The article is relevant because it echoes what the previous poster had said. There's no rule that says posting a link means you endorse what's in the link and frankly the poster's own feelings on the matter aren't strictly relevant as they are simply quoting someone else.
You are trying to make out that Covalent being a Vettel fan is central to the point being made, whereas it's actually irrelevant
Oh man, talk about a mountain out of a molehill...
Re: When will Ferrari ACTUALLY have the advantage?
Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 7:35 pm
by Covalent
We ready to move on? Or should we focus on my person and how I´m such a huge Vettel loving Villeneuve endorser?
Re: When will Ferrari ACTUALLY have the advantage?
Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 10:24 pm
by P-F1 Mod
Come on guys. Covalent's views about Vettel and Villeneuve really aren't relevant. Get it back on topic or it gets locked.
Re: When will Ferrari ACTUALLY have the advantage?
Posted: Sat May 11, 2019 3:12 pm
by Mercedes-Benz
0.8 secs is pretty shocking gap. Ferrari are looking worse than previous years. Monaco they will do well to even get podium? Canada could suit Ferrari.
Re: When will Ferrari ACTUALLY have the advantage?
Posted: Sat May 11, 2019 6:16 pm
by Altair
Mercedes-Benz wrote:0.8 secs is pretty shocking gap. Ferrari are looking worse than previous years. Monaco they will do well to even get podium? Canada could suit Ferrari.
Constructors Champship will be wrapped up by then.
Re: When will Ferrari ACTUALLY have the advantage?
Posted: Sat May 11, 2019 7:18 pm
by Zoue
Mercedes-Benz wrote:0.8 secs is pretty shocking gap. Ferrari are looking worse than previous years. Monaco they will do well to even get podium? Canada could suit Ferrari.
You're not too far off there. Vettel only improved on last year's time by less than a tenth. Contrast with Bottas who improved by 8 tenths. Mind you, Hamilton only improved by just over a tenth but I'm going on what the car is capable of. Max improved by half a second, so it does look like Ferrari are being out-developed at the moment among the top teams.
Re: When will Ferrari ACTUALLY have the advantage?
Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 10:40 am
by Johnson
The biggest question now, is what happened to Mercedes in Bahrain
Re: When will Ferrari ACTUALLY have the advantage?
Posted: Tue May 14, 2019 12:00 pm
by pokerman
Johnson wrote:The biggest question now, is what happened to Mercedes in Bahrain
Wasn't that put down to it being a rear limited track?
China and Barcelona are front limited, the Ferrari in particular suffers with under steer because of the design of its front wing.
Re: When will Ferrari ACTUALLY have the advantage?
Posted: Tue May 14, 2019 1:11 pm
by Teddy007
Good luck in answering this question.
Even if Ferrari managed to get an advantage in that car.. there is absolutely no guarantee that the drivers will deliver.
Ferrari have had several chances to bring more wins and solid points to take two titles but their mistakes, under performing Kimi and even driver errors really shot their chances away.
If by advantage you mean blowing the field away every single GP to make almost an easy 1-2... well... no idea on that one...
Re: When will Ferrari ACTUALLY have the advantage?
Posted: Tue May 14, 2019 1:35 pm
by Altair
Teddy007 wrote:Good luck in answering this question.
Even if Ferrari managed to get an advantage in that car.. there is absolutely no guarantee that the drivers will deliver.
Ferrari have had several chances to bring more wins and solid points to take two titles but their mistakes, under performing Kimi and even driver errors really shot their chances away.
If by advantage you mean blowing the field away every single GP to make almost an easy 1-2... well... no idea on that one...
2039. Maybe.