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Altair wrote:

You simply can't see beyond the results can you? You love to quote the four 1-2 finishes and use that as evidence of sandbagging while wilfully ignoring the fact that Ferrari (Leclerc in particular) could have won two of those races had it not been for a combination of driver errors, unreliability and team orders. But no, it's easier to cry about Mercedes being too fast and not telling you about it in advance.

Have you forgotten when Leclerc was cruising to a win and his engine gave out?

It's getting a little boring.

with all things being even, things are not even.

Australia and China, and now Baku have happened. Even if Leclerc wins in Bahrain, one Ferrari win, Mercedes 2-3, with Australia China and Baku being Mercedes 1-2.

That's still pathetic.

Then consider that didn't happen... Even more pathetic.

Bahrain would have been a Ferrari 1-3 if Vettel hadn't have spun, the performance of Vettel in Bahrain also highlights why we can't be sure of the Ferrari performance in Baku based on how Vettel performed.

Altair wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Altair wrote:The only good news is the pundits have switched from the Ferrari is fastest and its just mistakes keeping then down to the farce of the which Mercedes wins the champions.

You didn't see Leclerc crash in qualifying then?

I saw it. Leclerc is winning the moral victories championship by a mile.

But the pundits have accepted the fact that this season is already over and are talking about who will win the champions, Hamilton or Bottas. Which is good, because as Ferrari has proven time and again, nomatter what Toto says, they aren't up for the challenge.

So let's focus on the real championships.

Which Mercedes driver is the champion this year.

Which Ferrari driver wins 3rd place

How close does max make it to the top 4.

Which team/driver- gasly wins formula 1.5

Which Williams driver beats the other.

Yes lets. You can start a thread on it right now. Off you go.

Rockie wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote: We're judging cars on free practice glory runs now it seems. Nothing today suggested that Mercedes had a deficit and in fact their race pace tended to confirm the FP race sims where they were faster than anyone else

Nothing was confirmed because the faster Ferrari driver crashed in qualifying.

which just underlines my point. We're taking what he did in free practice and determining that he must have had a car advantage during the race. But at no point in the actual race did Mercedes look inferior to either Ferrari.

I agree but with him being out of the picture we can't say that Ferrari were inferior either.

You are being disingenuous, Mercedes were toying with the rest in this race.

Leclerc would have had same strategy so no way was he doing anything without the SC which didn't come on pure pace he was no where near the Mercs even if we go by the FP's like you want to do!

What SC are you talking about?

Leclerc was much quicker than Vettel throughout the weekend and Vettel only missed pole by 3 tenths and that was without the tow that benefited Bottas.

Altair wrote:

BMWSauber84 wrote:

Altair wrote:

F1_Ernie wrote:

Altair wrote:Toto on German TV saying Ferrari is on the same level as their cars.

First 4 races

Toto: Ferrari are ahead.

Mercedes the first 4 races 1-2.

Toto: Never mind, they are on our level.

Sandbagging liar.

Calm down

This is me calmly stating the fact that Mercedes up and down their organization are sandbagging liars.

The sun is a star, dogs are canines, whales live in the sea, horses have 4 legs, fire is hot, Mercedes are sandbagging liars.

All calmly stated facts of life.

You're getting irrationally angry here for very little reason. Toto Wolf does not know race to race how Ferrari are going to perform. Heck, even Ferrari don't seem to have a Scooby how their car will perform one corner to the next if the temperature changes by one thousandth of a degree.

Also, part of management is about management of expectations. If he emerges before every race saying "Everyone else is fighting for third place this weekend because we are seriously on it", then he's risking humiliation.

The 'sandbagging' thing is also part and parcel of an F1 weekend. In an era of conservation, there is little to no point in Merc dialling the engines up for monster laps. Nkr the drivers risking saturday by pushing the thing to the ragged edge. I think essentially you are angry because Mercedes keep winning.

Again, not angry about sandbagging.

Sandbag all you want. But don't point towards your sandbagging performance and tell everyone that's your real pace. That's what's getting me. I'm not saying toto needs to come out say nobody has a chance. That's poor form. But to do the opposite, saying that youre in tough when you know that you aren't operating at 100 percent, that's also poor form. Especially when everyone and their mother knows that's not the case. Toto is taking the fans of this sport for fools, and I don't appreciate it.

I'm also no mad about Mercedes winning. I'm upset that thwre is no competitive racing on top. Mercedes is going to wrap up the championships mid season. Ferrari are second best. Red bull are third best.

The mid field is a jumble, where real racing happens.

And then there is Williams.

Same as last season.

Same as the season before that.

Same as the season before that.

Same as the season before that.

Same as the season before that.

The most unpredictable race on the calendar and I nailed the results -retirements... Before the race.

That's pathetic.

You could have cut that down and just said that you're angry that Mercedes are winning and angry that they are not telling us in advance how easily they will win.

Zoue wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:What is is with Toto's face when Bottas beats hamilton 1-2 in qualifying, 1-2 in the race? Every time one of these happens, he just has a firm stare and looks as if he has to put a fake smile on because of the reactions around him. He honestly looks more happy than this when he sees Hamilton win a race when Bottas is more than 1 position behind him. The times when he's really happy is with them finishing 1 - 2 with Hamilton leading. But the difference to his facial expression when it is the other way round is simply huge and i can't understand why. I don't notice it with other people i often see in the garage.

I have a theory, but it's just based on circumstantial evidence.

In December 2016 Lewis said he felt disrespected by the team and had to have clear the air talks with Toto. Ever since then Toto has gone out of the way to say how amazing Hamilton is at every opportunity. It could be simply coincidence but maybe Toto feels that looking happy for Bottas might be interpreted as being less respectful to Hamilton.

Could be rubbish of course but it's as good a theory as any

...or he wasn't happy that the drivers ignored the instructions not to go for fastest lap which Hamilton seemingly ignored by chasing down Bottas thus risking the 1-2 which is basically all he cares about?

shoot999 wrote:

Altair wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Altair wrote:The only good news is the pundits have switched from the Ferrari is fastest and its just mistakes keeping then down to the farce of the which Mercedes wins the champions.

You didn't see Leclerc crash in qualifying then?

I saw it. Leclerc is winning the moral victories championship by a mile.

But the pundits have accepted the fact that this season is already over and are talking about who will win the champions, Hamilton or Bottas. Which is good, because as Ferrari has proven time and again, nomatter what Toto says, they aren't up for the challenge.

So let's focus on the real championships.

Which Mercedes driver is the champion this year.

Which Ferrari driver wins 3rd place

How close does max make it to the top 4.

Which team/driver- gasly wins formula 1.5

Which Williams driver beats the other.

Yes lets. You can start a thread on it right now. Off you go.

I won't make that thread because truth be told, that championship bores me to death.

But you seem perfectly content with this very extremely exciting season, so I won't be a downer. I'll leave you here to enjoy it.

See you all in 2 weeks. Hopefully Mercedes and their car can catch up to Ferrari by then.

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote: We're judging cars on free practice glory runs now it seems. Nothing today suggested that Mercedes had a deficit and in fact their race pace tended to confirm the FP race sims where they were faster than anyone else

Nothing was confirmed because the faster Ferrari driver crashed in qualifying.

which just underlines my point. We're taking what he did in free practice and determining that he must have had a car advantage during the race. But at no point in the actual race did Mercedes look inferior to either Ferrari.

I agree but with him being out of the picture we can't say that Ferrari were inferior either.

But we certainly can't say that Mercedes were the 2nd best car, which was the original point I was contesting? The only evidence we have suggests they were not at a disadvantage

I agree with that but you added to that post that Mercedes were fastest.

Altair wrote:

shoot999 wrote:

Altair wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Altair wrote:The only good news is the pundits have switched from the Ferrari is fastest and its just mistakes keeping then down to the farce of the which Mercedes wins the champions.

You didn't see Leclerc crash in qualifying then?

I saw it. Leclerc is winning the moral victories championship by a mile.

But the pundits have accepted the fact that this season is already over and are talking about who will win the champions, Hamilton or Bottas. Which is good, because as Ferrari has proven time and again, nomatter what Toto says, they aren't up for the challenge.

So let's focus on the real championships.

Which Mercedes driver is the champion this year.

Which Ferrari driver wins 3rd place

How close does max make it to the top 4.

Which team/driver- gasly wins formula 1.5

Which Williams driver beats the other.

Yes lets. You can start a thread on it right now. Off you go.

I won't make that thread because truth be told, that championship bores me to death.

But you seem perfectly content with this very extremely exciting season, so I won't be a downer. I'll leave you here to enjoy it.

See you all in 2 weeks. Hopefully Mercedes and their car can catch up to Ferrari by then.

Genuine question: if it bores you to death then why have you watched the race and posted a lot on here?

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:Nothing was confirmed because the faster Ferrari driver crashed in qualifying.

which just underlines my point. We're taking what he did in free practice and determining that he must have had a car advantage during the race. But at no point in the actual race did Mercedes look inferior to either Ferrari.

I agree but with him being out of the picture we can't say that Ferrari were inferior either.

But we certainly can't say that Mercedes were the 2nd best car, which was the original point I was contesting? The only evidence we have suggests they were not at a disadvantage

I agree with that but you added to that post that Mercedes were fastest.

I said their race pace confirmed the FP race sims where they were quickest. What part of that is incorrect?

Guys, can we stop rising to the "sandbagging liars" comments please? Move on. They shouldn't be posted in future. If they are, please report them.

Altair wrote:

shoot999 wrote:

Altair wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Altair wrote:The only good news is the pundits have switched from the Ferrari is fastest and its just mistakes keeping then down to the farce of the which Mercedes wins the champions.

You didn't see Leclerc crash in qualifying then?

I saw it. Leclerc is winning the moral victories championship by a mile.

But the pundits have accepted the fact that this season is already over and are talking about who will win the champions, Hamilton or Bottas. Which is good, because as Ferrari has proven time and again, nomatter what Toto says, they aren't up for the challenge.

So let's focus on the real championships.

Which Mercedes driver is the champion this year.

Which Ferrari driver wins 3rd place

How close does max make it to the top 4.

Which team/driver- gasly wins formula 1.5

Which Williams driver beats the other.

Yes lets. You can start a thread on it right now. Off you go.

I won't make that thread because truth be told, that championship bores me to death.

But you seem perfectly content with this very extremely exciting season, so I won't be a downer. I'll leave you here to enjoy it.

See you all in 2 weeks. Hopefully Mercedes and their car can catch up to Ferrari by then.

Bye

pokerman wrote:

Rockie wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:Nothing was confirmed because the faster Ferrari driver crashed in qualifying.

which just underlines my point. We're taking what he did in free practice and determining that he must have had a car advantage during the race. But at no point in the actual race did Mercedes look inferior to either Ferrari.

I agree but with him being out of the picture we can't say that Ferrari were inferior either.

You are being disingenuous, Mercedes were toying with the rest in this race.

Leclerc would have had same strategy so no way was he doing anything without the SC which didn't come on pure pace he was no where near the Mercs even if we go by the FP's like you want to do!

What SC are you talking about?

Leclerc was much quicker than Vettel throughout the weekend and Vettel only missed pole by 3 tenths and that was without the tow that benefited Bottas.

yeah, but you know, Bottas only pipped Hamilton by half a tenth and Hamilton didn't have a tow either, so...

Altair wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Altair wrote:The only good news is the pundits have switched from the Ferrari is fastest and its just mistakes keeping then down to the farce of the which Mercedes wins the champions.

You didn't see Leclerc crash in qualifying then?

I saw it. Leclerc is winning the moral victories championship by a mile.

But the pundits have accepted the fact that this season is already over and are talking about who will win the champions, Hamilton or Bottas. Which is good, because as Ferrari has proven time and again, nomatter what Toto says, they aren't up for the challenge.

So let's focus on the real championships.

Which Mercedes driver is the champion this year.

Which Ferrari driver wins 3rd place

How close does max make it to the top 4.

Which team/driver- gasly wins formula 1.5

Which Williams driver beats the other.

It's also there for the drivers to make a difference as well rather then Ferrari spoon feed them the best car, Hamilton should never have been in the position to win the race in Bahrain like some races last season.

Both team and driver dropped the ball in Bahrain whilst again a driver dropped the ball in Baku, do drivers making mistakes deserve to be the champion?

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:What is is with Toto's face when Bottas beats hamilton 1-2 in qualifying, 1-2 in the race? Every time one of these happens, he just has a firm stare and looks as if he has to put a fake smile on because of the reactions around him. He honestly looks more happy than this when he sees Hamilton win a race when Bottas is more than 1 position behind him. The times when he's really happy is with them finishing 1 - 2 with Hamilton leading. But the difference to his facial expression when it is the other way round is simply huge and i can't understand why. I don't notice it with other people i often see in the garage.

I have a theory, but it's just based on circumstantial evidence.

In December 2016 Lewis said he felt disrespected by the team and had to have clear the air talks with Toto. Ever since then Toto has gone out of the way to say how amazing Hamilton is at every opportunity. It could be simply coincidence but maybe Toto feels that looking happy for Bottas might be interpreted as being less respectful to Hamilton.

Could be rubbish of course but it's as good a theory as any

...or he wasn't happy that the drivers ignored the instructions not to go for fastest lap which Hamilton seemingly ignored by chasing down Bottas thus risking the 1-2 which is basically all he cares about?

Possibly, but that only addresses this particular incident of course.

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:What is is with Toto's face when Bottas beats hamilton 1-2 in qualifying, 1-2 in the race? Every time one of these happens, he just has a firm stare and looks as if he has to put a fake smile on because of the reactions around him. He honestly looks more happy than this when he sees Hamilton win a race when Bottas is more than 1 position behind him. The times when he's really happy is with them finishing 1 - 2 with Hamilton leading. But the difference to his facial expression when it is the other way round is simply huge and i can't understand why. I don't notice it with other people i often see in the garage.

I have a theory, but it's just based on circumstantial evidence.

In December 2016 Lewis said he felt disrespected by the team and had to have clear the air talks with Toto. Ever since then Toto has gone out of the way to say how amazing Hamilton is at every opportunity. It could be simply coincidence but maybe Toto feels that looking happy for Bottas might be interpreted as being less respectful to Hamilton.

Could be rubbish of course but it's as good a theory as any

...or he wasn't happy that the drivers ignored the instructions not to go for fastest lap which Hamilton seemingly ignored by chasing down Bottas thus risking the 1-2 which is basically all he cares about?

Possibly, but that only addresses this particular incident of course.

Zoue could be right. Maybe Wolff just doesn't see Bottas a WDC winner and would prefer Hamilton to get the wins and 25 points in the bag to build up a bigger lead over the Ferrari drivers?

JN23 wrote:

Altair wrote:

shoot999 wrote:

Altair wrote:

pokerman wrote: You didn't see Leclerc crash in qualifying then?

I saw it. Leclerc is winning the moral victories championship by a mile.

But the pundits have accepted the fact that this season is already over and are talking about who will win the champions, Hamilton or Bottas. Which is good, because as Ferrari has proven time and again, nomatter what Toto says, they aren't up for the challenge.

So let's focus on the real championships.

Which Mercedes driver is the champion this year.

Which Ferrari driver wins 3rd place

How close does max make it to the top 4.

Which team/driver- gasly wins formula 1.5

Which Williams driver beats the other.

Yes lets. You can start a thread on it right now. Off you go.

I won't make that thread because truth be told, that championship bores me to death.

But you seem perfectly content with this very extremely exciting season, so I won't be a downer. I'll leave you here to enjoy it.

See you all in 2 weeks. Hopefully Mercedes and their car can catch up to Ferrari by then.

Genuine question: if it bores you to death then why have you watched the race and posted a lot on here?

He made 2 Mercedes car effigies and was sticking needles in them hoping to make the cars fail.

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote: which just underlines my point. We're taking what he did in free practice and determining that he must have had a car advantage during the race. But at no point in the actual race did Mercedes look inferior to either Ferrari.

I agree but with him being out of the picture we can't say that Ferrari were inferior either.

But we certainly can't say that Mercedes were the 2nd best car, which was the original point I was contesting? The only evidence we have suggests they were not at a disadvantage

I agree with that but you added to that post that Mercedes were fastest.

I said their race pace confirmed the FP race sims where they were quickest. What part of that is incorrect?

Did not Verstappen have the best race sim?

The Mercs looked better in the race sims whilst the Ferrari looked better in the qually sims, but the sims were very short just a few laps after missing FP1, how can we know the fuel loads?

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Rockie wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote: which just underlines my point. We're taking what he did in free practice and determining that he must have had a car advantage during the race. But at no point in the actual race did Mercedes look inferior to either Ferrari.

I agree but with him being out of the picture we can't say that Ferrari were inferior either.

You are being disingenuous, Mercedes were toying with the rest in this race.

Leclerc would have had same strategy so no way was he doing anything without the SC which didn't come on pure pace he was no where near the Mercs even if we go by the FP's like you want to do!

What SC are you talking about?

Leclerc was much quicker than Vettel throughout the weekend and Vettel only missed pole by 3 tenths and that was without the tow that benefited Bottas.

yeah, but you know, Bottas only pipped Hamilton by half a tenth and Hamilton didn't have a tow either, so...

So we don't know which is basically the point I'm making.

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:What is is with Toto's face when Bottas beats hamilton 1-2 in qualifying, 1-2 in the race? Every time one of these happens, he just has a firm stare and looks as if he has to put a fake smile on because of the reactions around him. He honestly looks more happy than this when he sees Hamilton win a race when Bottas is more than 1 position behind him. The times when he's really happy is with them finishing 1 - 2 with Hamilton leading. But the difference to his facial expression when it is the other way round is simply huge and i can't understand why. I don't notice it with other people i often see in the garage.

I have a theory, but it's just based on circumstantial evidence.

In December 2016 Lewis said he felt disrespected by the team and had to have clear the air talks with Toto. Ever since then Toto has gone out of the way to say how amazing Hamilton is at every opportunity. It could be simply coincidence but maybe Toto feels that looking happy for Bottas might be interpreted as being less respectful to Hamilton.

Could be rubbish of course but it's as good a theory as any

...or he wasn't happy that the drivers ignored the instructions not to go for fastest lap which Hamilton seemingly ignored by chasing down Bottas thus risking the 1-2 which is basically all he cares about?

Possibly, but that only addresses this particular incident of course.

So you go with Wolff having to play up to Hamilton's brittle ego, nice.

2016 resolved around Hamilton getting a dressing down for the way he drove in the season finale were he felt he had the right to do whatever possible to win the WDC which was still within sporting reason as in not looking to crash out an opponent.

An unfortunate fact about that race was the lack of action up front again. China wasn't a classic and neither was Baku, and they are often quite a good bet for an exciting GP.

Now Spain and Monaco are coming up, two of the most boring races on the calender. It doesn't bode well at present. Hopefully those races exceed expectations though.

As dominant as Bottas was in Australia I think this race was maybe even more impressive. He didn't have so much of a pace advantage but it was just a massively controlled mistake free run from lights to flag.

BMWSauber84 wrote:An unfortunate fact about that race was the lack of action up front again. China wasn't a classic and neither was Baku, and they are often quite a good bet for an exciting GP.

Now Spain and Monaco are coming up, two of the most boring races on the calender. It doesn't bode well at present. Hopefully those races exceed expectations though.

I can't help feeling that Leclerc not competing at the front somewhat diminished the race.

wolfticket wrote:As dominant as Bottas was in Australia I think this race was maybe even more impressive. He didn't have so much of a pace advantage but it was just a massively controlled mistake free run from lights to flag.

It was more impressive because Hamilton didn't have a damaged car, Hamilton asked the questions and Bottas had the answers.

Congratulations to Valteri! This was probably the most impressive weekend I've seen from him relative to Lewis. He managed to beat Hamilton to the pole on Saturday and he really controllled this race from the front today. Bottas looked like he belonged up front. He wasn't slowing anyone down out there. This is definitely the strongest form he has shown since joining Mercedes.

For Hamilton, this will be a fairly disappointing weekend having been narrowly beaten out by his teammate but Lewis has always stretched his legs when we get to Barcelona and I think he will mostly be happy with their lead over Ferrari at this point. I don't think he will be too worried about Bottas as a title rival although Valteri clearly is on a mission this year. These early races have always been relatively strong for Valteri but it will be interesting to see whether or not he can keep this up when the season moves to Europe.

For Ferrari it just seems like they have not made the most of their potential. There is no way that Mercedes should have four 1-2 finishes from 4 races. I think Ferrari have the potential to challenge Mercedes but it won't matter if they can't get some results in the very near future. 1 or 2 more races like this and the championship will be over. It's only the fact that Bottas has been so competitive that has kept Ferrari alive because neither Merc driver is running away with all of the points.

Max is doing an excellent job this season. He's just got his head down and is getting the maximum from the car. Red Bull have been unlucky but I see potential there. It might be 2020 before they are a real contender but I think they will get there.

It's interesting to note that McLaren have the best Renault-powered car. They may also be the best midfield team with Haas struggling so badly and Renault under-performing. Also in the midfield; Alex Albon can drive! I think Gasly should be looking over his shoulder. This kid Albon makes some great overtakes in almost every race. I really hope he gets to drive the Red Bull next year.

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:I agree but with him being out of the picture we can't say that Ferrari were inferior either.

But we certainly can't say that Mercedes were the 2nd best car, which was the original point I was contesting? The only evidence we have suggests they were not at a disadvantage

I agree with that but you added to that post that Mercedes were fastest.

I said their race pace confirmed the FP race sims where they were quickest. What part of that is incorrect?

Did not Verstappen have the best race sim?

The Mercs looked better in the race sims whilst the Ferrari looked better in the qually sims, but the sims were very short just a few laps after missing FP1, how can we know the fuel loads?

No. It was Mercedes, followed by Red Bull, then Ferrari. Which, to be fair, didn't look that far off what we saw today, although I'd say Ferrari and Red Bull looked closer than the sim suggested.

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:What is is with Toto's face when Bottas beats hamilton 1-2 in qualifying, 1-2 in the race? Every time one of these happens, he just has a firm stare and looks as if he has to put a fake smile on because of the reactions around him. He honestly looks more happy than this when he sees Hamilton win a race when Bottas is more than 1 position behind him. The times when he's really happy is with them finishing 1 - 2 with Hamilton leading. But the difference to his facial expression when it is the other way round is simply huge and i can't understand why. I don't notice it with other people i often see in the garage.

I have a theory, but it's just based on circumstantial evidence.

In December 2016 Lewis said he felt disrespected by the team and had to have clear the air talks with Toto. Ever since then Toto has gone out of the way to say how amazing Hamilton is at every opportunity. It could be simply coincidence but maybe Toto feels that looking happy for Bottas might be interpreted as being less respectful to Hamilton.

Could be rubbish of course but it's as good a theory as any

...or he wasn't happy that the drivers ignored the instructions not to go for fastest lap which Hamilton seemingly ignored by chasing down Bottas thus risking the 1-2 which is basically all he cares about?

Possibly, but that only addresses this particular incident of course.

So you go with Wolff having to play up to Hamilton's brittle ego, nice.

2016 resolved around Hamilton getting a dressing down for the way he drove in the season finale were he felt he had the right to do whatever possible to win the WDC which was still within sporting reason as in not looking to crash out an opponent.

Oh, don't get all bent out of shape. I did say it was circumstantial.

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Rockie wrote:

pokerman wrote:I agree but with him being out of the picture we can't say that Ferrari were inferior either.

You are being disingenuous, Mercedes were toying with the rest in this race.

Leclerc would have had same strategy so no way was he doing anything without the SC which didn't come on pure pace he was no where near the Mercs even if we go by the FP's like you want to do!

What SC are you talking about?

Leclerc was much quicker than Vettel throughout the weekend and Vettel only missed pole by 3 tenths and that was without the tow that benefited Bottas.

yeah, but you know, Bottas only pipped Hamilton by half a tenth and Hamilton didn't have a tow either, so...

So we don't know which is basically the point I'm making.

We can o with the balance of probabilities which showed the race sim results reflected in the race itself

Did anyone run the hard white-walled tyres throughout the whole weekend - I know nobody ran them in Q or R but how about FP2/3?

The Leclerc strategy was always going to fail without SC, the softs were such a poor race tyre. I wonder if 20-something laps on the meds and the rest on the hards would haven't been better. Or were they so much slower compared to the meds?

JN23 wrote:

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:What is is with Toto's face when Bottas beats hamilton 1-2 in qualifying, 1-2 in the race? Every time one of these happens, he just has a firm stare and looks as if he has to put a fake smile on because of the reactions around him. He honestly looks more happy than this when he sees Hamilton win a race when Bottas is more than 1 position behind him. The times when he's really happy is with them finishing 1 - 2 with Hamilton leading. But the difference to his facial expression when it is the other way round is simply huge and i can't understand why. I don't notice it with other people i often see in the garage.

I have a theory, but it's just based on circumstantial evidence.

In December 2016 Lewis said he felt disrespected by the team and had to have clear the air talks with Toto. Ever since then Toto has gone out of the way to say how amazing Hamilton is at every opportunity. It could be simply coincidence but maybe Toto feels that looking happy for Bottas might be interpreted as being less respectful to Hamilton.

Could be rubbish of course but it's as good a theory as any

...or he wasn't happy that the drivers ignored the instructions not to go for fastest lap which Hamilton seemingly ignored by chasing down Bottas thus risking the 1-2 which is basically all he cares about?

Possibly, but that only addresses this particular incident of course.

Zoue could be right. Maybe Wolff just doesn't see Bottas a WDC winner and would prefer Hamilton to get the wins and 25 points in the bag to build up a bigger lead over the Ferrari drivers?

Or maybe he's already promised Valtteri's seat to Ocon and is having second thoughts?

Lewis said in a post race interview that he lost the race because he was too nice in turn one.

Reversing Ricciardo... was this the first time a double-DNF was caused in reverse gear?

Covalent wrote:

JN23 wrote:

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:[quote=I have a theory, but it's just based on circumstantial evidence.

In December 2016 Lewis said he felt disrespected by the team and had to have clear the air talks with Toto. Ever since then Toto has gone out of the way to say how amazing Hamilton is at every opportunity. It could be simply coincidence but maybe Toto feels that looking happy for Bottas might be interpreted as being less respectful to Hamilton.

Could be rubbish of course but it's as good a theory as any

...or he wasn't happy that the drivers ignored the instructions not to go for fastest lap which Hamilton seemingly ignored by chasing down Bottas thus risking the 1-2 which is basically all he cares about?

Possibly, but that only addresses this particular incident of course.

Zoue could be right. Maybe Wolff just doesn't see Bottas a WDC winner and would prefer Hamilton to get the wins and 25 points in the bag to build up a bigger lead over the Ferrari drivers?

Or maybe he's already promised Valtteri's seat to Ocon and is having second thoughts?

Yep also a possibility

It’s an absolute no brainer that Mercedes would want Hamilton winning instead of Bottas. If Hamilton has an excellent 18 months, he will break Schumachers win total and equal his WDC. That is marketing GOLD for Mercedes. Now and in 10,20,30 years..

Johnson wrote:It’s an absolute no brainer that Mercedes would want Hamilton winning instead of Bottas. If Hamilton has an excellent 18 months, he will break Schumachers win total and equal his WDC. That is marketing GOLD for Mercedes. Now and in 10,20,30 years..

I really don't think Toto Wolff cares how easy it is for Merc to market their champion in decades time.

Covalent wrote:Lewis said in a post race interview that he lost the race because he was too nice in turn one.

He was pushing a fellow driver half cars width out of actual racing track and calls it "too nice". What is next?

Lt. Drebin wrote:

Covalent wrote:Lewis said in a post race interview that he lost the race because he was too nice in turn one.

He was pushing a fellow driver half cars width out of actual racing track and calls it "too nice". What is next?

I'd say in F1 terms, Lewis is leaving plenty of space. At least judging from this photo.

BORING!

mikeyg123 wrote:

Johnson wrote:It’s an absolute no brainer that Mercedes would want Hamilton winning instead of Bottas. If Hamilton has an excellent 18 months, he will break Schumachers win total and equal his WDC. That is marketing GOLD for Mercedes. Now and in 10,20,30 years..

I really don't think Toto Wolff cares how easy it is for Merc to market their champion in decades time.

Have to agree. Ultimately Mercedes will get the kudo regardless of which driver wins anyway. You think back to the McLaren of the late 90s and you'll remember the car irrespective of which driver actually won in each year

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote: But we certainly can't say that Mercedes were the 2nd best car, which was the original point I was contesting? The only evidence we have suggests they were not at a disadvantage

I agree with that but you added to that post that Mercedes were fastest.

I said their race pace confirmed the FP race sims where they were quickest. What part of that is incorrect?

Did not Verstappen have the best race sim?

The Mercs looked better in the race sims whilst the Ferrari looked better in the qually sims, but the sims were very short just a few laps after missing FP1, how can we know the fuel loads?

No. It was Mercedes, followed by Red Bull, then Ferrari. Which, to be fair, didn't look that far off what we saw today, although I'd say Ferrari and Red Bull looked closer than the sim suggested.

Fair enough, with the race sims I look more for the tyre drop off then the times because you never know the fuel load, the sims I saw they were doing 6/7 laps max it seemed.

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote: I have a theory, but it's just based on circumstantial evidence.

In December 2016 Lewis said he felt disrespected by the team and had to have clear the air talks with Toto. Ever since then Toto has gone out of the way to say how amazing Hamilton is at every opportunity. It could be simply coincidence but maybe Toto feels that looking happy for Bottas might be interpreted as being less respectful to Hamilton.

Could be rubbish of course but it's as good a theory as any

...or he wasn't happy that the drivers ignored the instructions not to go for fastest lap which Hamilton seemingly ignored by chasing down Bottas thus risking the 1-2 which is basically all he cares about?

Possibly, but that only addresses this particular incident of course.

So you go with Wolff having to play up to Hamilton's brittle ego, nice.

2016 resolved around Hamilton getting a dressing down for the way he drove in the season finale were he felt he had the right to do whatever possible to win the WDC which was still within sporting reason as in not looking to crash out an opponent.

Oh, don't get all bent out of shape. I did say it was circumstantial.

Well I don't understand why you even went there?