Bahrain would have been a Ferrari 1-3 if Vettel hadn't have spun, the performance of Vettel in Bahrain also highlights why we can't be sure of the Ferrari performance in Baku based on how Vettel performed.Altair wrote:with all things being even, things are not even.
You simply can't see beyond the results can you? You love to quote the four 1-2 finishes and use that as evidence of sandbagging while wilfully ignoring the fact that Ferrari (Leclerc in particular) could have won two of those races had it not been for a combination of driver errors, unreliability and team orders. But no, it's easier to cry about Mercedes being too fast and not telling you about it in advance.
Have you forgotten when Leclerc was cruising to a win and his engine gave out?
It's getting a little boring.
Australia and China, and now Baku have happened. Even if Leclerc wins in Bahrain, one Ferrari win, Mercedes 2-3, with Australia China and Baku being Mercedes 1-2.
That's still pathetic.
Then consider that didn't happen... Even more pathetic.
2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
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Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
Lewis Hamilton #44
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Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
Yes lets. You can start a thread on it right now. Off you go.Altair wrote:I saw it. Leclerc is winning the moral victories championship by a mile.pokerman wrote:You didn't see Leclerc crash in qualifying then?Altair wrote:The only good news is the pundits have switched from the Ferrari is fastest and its just mistakes keeping then down to the farce of the which Mercedes wins the champions.
But the pundits have accepted the fact that this season is already over and are talking about who will win the champions, Hamilton or Bottas. Which is good, because as Ferrari has proven time and again, nomatter what Toto says, they aren't up for the challenge.
So let's focus on the real championships.
Which Mercedes driver is the champion this year.
Which Ferrari driver wins 3rd place
How close does max make it to the top 4.
Which team/driver- gasly wins formula 1.5
Which Williams driver beats the other.
Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
What SC are you talking about?Rockie wrote:You are being disingenuous, Mercedes were toying with the rest in this race.pokerman wrote:I agree but with him being out of the picture we can't say that Ferrari were inferior either.Zoue wrote:which just underlines my point. We're taking what he did in free practice and determining that he must have had a car advantage during the race. But at no point in the actual race did Mercedes look inferior to either Ferrari.pokerman wrote:Nothing was confirmed because the faster Ferrari driver crashed in qualifying.Zoue wrote: We're judging cars on free practice glory runs now it seems. Nothing today suggested that Mercedes had a deficit and in fact their race pace tended to confirm the FP race sims where they were faster than anyone else
Leclerc would have had same strategy so no way was he doing anything without the SC which didn't come on pure pace he was no where near the Mercs even if we go by the FP's like you want to do!
Leclerc was much quicker than Vettel throughout the weekend and Vettel only missed pole by 3 tenths and that was without the tow that benefited Bottas.
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Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
You could have cut that down and just said that you're angry that Mercedes are winning and angry that they are not telling us in advance how easily they will win.Altair wrote:Again, not angry about sandbagging.BMWSauber84 wrote:You're getting irrationally angry here for very little reason. Toto Wolf does not know race to race how Ferrari are going to perform. Heck, even Ferrari don't seem to have a Scooby how their car will perform one corner to the next if the temperature changes by one thousandth of a degree.Altair wrote:This is me calmly stating the fact that Mercedes up and down their organization are sandbagging liars.F1_Ernie wrote:Calm downAltair wrote:Toto on German TV saying Ferrari is on the same level as their cars.
First 4 races
Toto: Ferrari are ahead.
Mercedes the first 4 races 1-2.
Toto: Never mind, they are on our level.
Sandbagging liar.
The sun is a star, dogs are canines, whales live in the sea, horses have 4 legs, fire is hot, Mercedes are sandbagging liars.
All calmly stated facts of life.
Also, part of management is about management of expectations. If he emerges before every race saying "Everyone else is fighting for third place this weekend because we are seriously on it", then he's risking humiliation.
The 'sandbagging' thing is also part and parcel of an F1 weekend. In an era of conservation, there is little to no point in Merc dialling the engines up for monster laps. Nkr the drivers risking saturday by pushing the thing to the ragged edge. I think essentially you are angry because Mercedes keep winning.
Sandbag all you want. But don't point towards your sandbagging performance and tell everyone that's your real pace. That's what's getting me. I'm not saying toto needs to come out say nobody has a chance. That's poor form. But to do the opposite, saying that youre in tough when you know that you aren't operating at 100 percent, that's also poor form. Especially when everyone and their mother knows that's not the case. Toto is taking the fans of this sport for fools, and I don't appreciate it.
I'm also no mad about Mercedes winning. I'm upset that thwre is no competitive racing on top. Mercedes is going to wrap up the championships mid season. Ferrari are second best. Red bull are third best.
The mid field is a jumble, where real racing happens.
And then there is Williams.
Same as last season.
Same as the season before that.
Same as the season before that.
Same as the season before that.
Same as the season before that.
The most unpredictable race on the calendar and I nailed the results -retirements... Before the race.
That's pathetic.
Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
...or he wasn't happy that the drivers ignored the instructions not to go for fastest lap which Hamilton seemingly ignored by chasing down Bottas thus risking the 1-2 which is basically all he cares about?Zoue wrote:I have a theory, but it's just based on circumstantial evidence.TheGiantHogweed wrote:What is is with Toto's face when Bottas beats hamilton 1-2 in qualifying, 1-2 in the race? Every time one of these happens, he just has a firm stare and looks as if he has to put a fake smile on because of the reactions around him. He honestly looks more happy than this when he sees Hamilton win a race when Bottas is more than 1 position behind him. The times when he's really happy is with them finishing 1 - 2 with Hamilton leading. But the difference to his facial expression when it is the other way round is simply huge and i can't understand why. I don't notice it with other people i often see in the garage.
In December 2016 Lewis said he felt disrespected by the team and had to have clear the air talks with Toto. Ever since then Toto has gone out of the way to say how amazing Hamilton is at every opportunity. It could be simply coincidence but maybe Toto feels that looking happy for Bottas might be interpreted as being less respectful to Hamilton.
Could be rubbish of course but it's as good a theory as any
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Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
I won't make that thread because truth be told, that championship bores me to death.shoot999 wrote:Yes lets. You can start a thread on it right now. Off you go.Altair wrote:I saw it. Leclerc is winning the moral victories championship by a mile.pokerman wrote:You didn't see Leclerc crash in qualifying then?Altair wrote:The only good news is the pundits have switched from the Ferrari is fastest and its just mistakes keeping then down to the farce of the which Mercedes wins the champions.
But the pundits have accepted the fact that this season is already over and are talking about who will win the champions, Hamilton or Bottas. Which is good, because as Ferrari has proven time and again, nomatter what Toto says, they aren't up for the challenge.
So let's focus on the real championships.
Which Mercedes driver is the champion this year.
Which Ferrari driver wins 3rd place
How close does max make it to the top 4.
Which team/driver- gasly wins formula 1.5
Which Williams driver beats the other.
But you seem perfectly content with this very extremely exciting season, so I won't be a downer. I'll leave you here to enjoy it.
See you all in 2 weeks. Hopefully Mercedes and their car can catch up to Ferrari by then.
Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
I agree with that but you added to that post that Mercedes were fastest.Zoue wrote:But we certainly can't say that Mercedes were the 2nd best car, which was the original point I was contesting? The only evidence we have suggests they were not at a disadvantagepokerman wrote:I agree but with him being out of the picture we can't say that Ferrari were inferior either.Zoue wrote:which just underlines my point. We're taking what he did in free practice and determining that he must have had a car advantage during the race. But at no point in the actual race did Mercedes look inferior to either Ferrari.pokerman wrote:Nothing was confirmed because the faster Ferrari driver crashed in qualifying.Zoue wrote: We're judging cars on free practice glory runs now it seems. Nothing today suggested that Mercedes had a deficit and in fact their race pace tended to confirm the FP race sims where they were faster than anyone else
Lewis Hamilton #44
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Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
Genuine question: if it bores you to death then why have you watched the race and posted a lot on here?Altair wrote:I won't make that thread because truth be told, that championship bores me to death.shoot999 wrote:Yes lets. You can start a thread on it right now. Off you go.Altair wrote:I saw it. Leclerc is winning the moral victories championship by a mile.pokerman wrote:You didn't see Leclerc crash in qualifying then?Altair wrote:The only good news is the pundits have switched from the Ferrari is fastest and its just mistakes keeping then down to the farce of the which Mercedes wins the champions.
But the pundits have accepted the fact that this season is already over and are talking about who will win the champions, Hamilton or Bottas. Which is good, because as Ferrari has proven time and again, nomatter what Toto says, they aren't up for the challenge.
So let's focus on the real championships.
Which Mercedes driver is the champion this year.
Which Ferrari driver wins 3rd place
How close does max make it to the top 4.
Which team/driver- gasly wins formula 1.5
Which Williams driver beats the other.
But you seem perfectly content with this very extremely exciting season, so I won't be a downer. I'll leave you here to enjoy it.
See you all in 2 weeks. Hopefully Mercedes and their car can catch up to Ferrari by then.
Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
I said their race pace confirmed the FP race sims where they were quickest. What part of that is incorrect?pokerman wrote:I agree with that but you added to that post that Mercedes were fastest.Zoue wrote:But we certainly can't say that Mercedes were the 2nd best car, which was the original point I was contesting? The only evidence we have suggests they were not at a disadvantagepokerman wrote:I agree but with him being out of the picture we can't say that Ferrari were inferior either.Zoue wrote:which just underlines my point. We're taking what he did in free practice and determining that he must have had a car advantage during the race. But at no point in the actual race did Mercedes look inferior to either Ferrari.pokerman wrote:Nothing was confirmed because the faster Ferrari driver crashed in qualifying.
Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
Guys, can we stop rising to the "sandbagging liars" comments please? Move on. They shouldn't be posted in future. If they are, please report them.
Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
ByeAltair wrote:I won't make that thread because truth be told, that championship bores me to death.shoot999 wrote:Yes lets. You can start a thread on it right now. Off you go.Altair wrote:I saw it. Leclerc is winning the moral victories championship by a mile.pokerman wrote:You didn't see Leclerc crash in qualifying then?Altair wrote:The only good news is the pundits have switched from the Ferrari is fastest and its just mistakes keeping then down to the farce of the which Mercedes wins the champions.
But the pundits have accepted the fact that this season is already over and are talking about who will win the champions, Hamilton or Bottas. Which is good, because as Ferrari has proven time and again, nomatter what Toto says, they aren't up for the challenge.
So let's focus on the real championships.
Which Mercedes driver is the champion this year.
Which Ferrari driver wins 3rd place
How close does max make it to the top 4.
Which team/driver- gasly wins formula 1.5
Which Williams driver beats the other.
But you seem perfectly content with this very extremely exciting season, so I won't be a downer. I'll leave you here to enjoy it.
See you all in 2 weeks. Hopefully Mercedes and their car can catch up to Ferrari by then.
Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
yeah, but you know, Bottas only pipped Hamilton by half a tenth and Hamilton didn't have a tow either, so...pokerman wrote:What SC are you talking about?Rockie wrote:You are being disingenuous, Mercedes were toying with the rest in this race.pokerman wrote:I agree but with him being out of the picture we can't say that Ferrari were inferior either.Zoue wrote:which just underlines my point. We're taking what he did in free practice and determining that he must have had a car advantage during the race. But at no point in the actual race did Mercedes look inferior to either Ferrari.pokerman wrote:Nothing was confirmed because the faster Ferrari driver crashed in qualifying.
Leclerc would have had same strategy so no way was he doing anything without the SC which didn't come on pure pace he was no where near the Mercs even if we go by the FP's like you want to do!
Leclerc was much quicker than Vettel throughout the weekend and Vettel only missed pole by 3 tenths and that was without the tow that benefited Bottas.
Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
It's also there for the drivers to make a difference as well rather then Ferrari spoon feed them the best car, Hamilton should never have been in the position to win the race in Bahrain like some races last season.Altair wrote:I saw it. Leclerc is winning the moral victories championship by a mile.pokerman wrote:You didn't see Leclerc crash in qualifying then?Altair wrote:The only good news is the pundits have switched from the Ferrari is fastest and its just mistakes keeping then down to the farce of the which Mercedes wins the champions.
But the pundits have accepted the fact that this season is already over and are talking about who will win the champions, Hamilton or Bottas. Which is good, because as Ferrari has proven time and again, nomatter what Toto says, they aren't up for the challenge.
So let's focus on the real championships.
Which Mercedes driver is the champion this year.
Which Ferrari driver wins 3rd place
How close does max make it to the top 4.
Which team/driver- gasly wins formula 1.5
Which Williams driver beats the other.
Both team and driver dropped the ball in Bahrain whilst again a driver dropped the ball in Baku, do drivers making mistakes deserve to be the champion?
Lewis Hamilton #44
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Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
Possibly, but that only addresses this particular incident of course.pokerman wrote:...or he wasn't happy that the drivers ignored the instructions not to go for fastest lap which Hamilton seemingly ignored by chasing down Bottas thus risking the 1-2 which is basically all he cares about?Zoue wrote:I have a theory, but it's just based on circumstantial evidence.TheGiantHogweed wrote:What is is with Toto's face when Bottas beats hamilton 1-2 in qualifying, 1-2 in the race? Every time one of these happens, he just has a firm stare and looks as if he has to put a fake smile on because of the reactions around him. He honestly looks more happy than this when he sees Hamilton win a race when Bottas is more than 1 position behind him. The times when he's really happy is with them finishing 1 - 2 with Hamilton leading. But the difference to his facial expression when it is the other way round is simply huge and i can't understand why. I don't notice it with other people i often see in the garage.
In December 2016 Lewis said he felt disrespected by the team and had to have clear the air talks with Toto. Ever since then Toto has gone out of the way to say how amazing Hamilton is at every opportunity. It could be simply coincidence but maybe Toto feels that looking happy for Bottas might be interpreted as being less respectful to Hamilton.
Could be rubbish of course but it's as good a theory as any
Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
Zoue could be right. Maybe Wolff just doesn't see Bottas a WDC winner and would prefer Hamilton to get the wins and 25 points in the bag to build up a bigger lead over the Ferrari drivers?Zoue wrote:Possibly, but that only addresses this particular incident of course.pokerman wrote:...or he wasn't happy that the drivers ignored the instructions not to go for fastest lap which Hamilton seemingly ignored by chasing down Bottas thus risking the 1-2 which is basically all he cares about?Zoue wrote:I have a theory, but it's just based on circumstantial evidence.TheGiantHogweed wrote:What is is with Toto's face when Bottas beats hamilton 1-2 in qualifying, 1-2 in the race? Every time one of these happens, he just has a firm stare and looks as if he has to put a fake smile on because of the reactions around him. He honestly looks more happy than this when he sees Hamilton win a race when Bottas is more than 1 position behind him. The times when he's really happy is with them finishing 1 - 2 with Hamilton leading. But the difference to his facial expression when it is the other way round is simply huge and i can't understand why. I don't notice it with other people i often see in the garage.
In December 2016 Lewis said he felt disrespected by the team and had to have clear the air talks with Toto. Ever since then Toto has gone out of the way to say how amazing Hamilton is at every opportunity. It could be simply coincidence but maybe Toto feels that looking happy for Bottas might be interpreted as being less respectful to Hamilton.
Could be rubbish of course but it's as good a theory as any
Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
He made 2 Mercedes car effigies and was sticking needles in them hoping to make the cars fail.JN23 wrote:Genuine question: if it bores you to death then why have you watched the race and posted a lot on here?Altair wrote:I won't make that thread because truth be told, that championship bores me to death.shoot999 wrote:Yes lets. You can start a thread on it right now. Off you go.Altair wrote:I saw it. Leclerc is winning the moral victories championship by a mile.pokerman wrote: You didn't see Leclerc crash in qualifying then?
But the pundits have accepted the fact that this season is already over and are talking about who will win the champions, Hamilton or Bottas. Which is good, because as Ferrari has proven time and again, nomatter what Toto says, they aren't up for the challenge.
So let's focus on the real championships.
Which Mercedes driver is the champion this year.
Which Ferrari driver wins 3rd place
How close does max make it to the top 4.
Which team/driver- gasly wins formula 1.5
Which Williams driver beats the other.
But you seem perfectly content with this very extremely exciting season, so I won't be a downer. I'll leave you here to enjoy it.
See you all in 2 weeks. Hopefully Mercedes and their car can catch up to Ferrari by then.

Lewis Hamilton #44
World Drivers Titles: 7 (1st)
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Pole Positions: 98 (1st)
Podiums: 166 (1st)
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Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
Did not Verstappen have the best race sim?Zoue wrote:I said their race pace confirmed the FP race sims where they were quickest. What part of that is incorrect?pokerman wrote:I agree with that but you added to that post that Mercedes were fastest.Zoue wrote:But we certainly can't say that Mercedes were the 2nd best car, which was the original point I was contesting? The only evidence we have suggests they were not at a disadvantagepokerman wrote:I agree but with him being out of the picture we can't say that Ferrari were inferior either.Zoue wrote: which just underlines my point. We're taking what he did in free practice and determining that he must have had a car advantage during the race. But at no point in the actual race did Mercedes look inferior to either Ferrari.
The Mercs looked better in the race sims whilst the Ferrari looked better in the qually sims, but the sims were very short just a few laps after missing FP1, how can we know the fuel loads?
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Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
So we don't know which is basically the point I'm making.Zoue wrote:yeah, but you know, Bottas only pipped Hamilton by half a tenth and Hamilton didn't have a tow either, so...pokerman wrote:What SC are you talking about?Rockie wrote:You are being disingenuous, Mercedes were toying with the rest in this race.pokerman wrote:I agree but with him being out of the picture we can't say that Ferrari were inferior either.Zoue wrote: which just underlines my point. We're taking what he did in free practice and determining that he must have had a car advantage during the race. But at no point in the actual race did Mercedes look inferior to either Ferrari.
Leclerc would have had same strategy so no way was he doing anything without the SC which didn't come on pure pace he was no where near the Mercs even if we go by the FP's like you want to do!
Leclerc was much quicker than Vettel throughout the weekend and Vettel only missed pole by 3 tenths and that was without the tow that benefited Bottas.
Lewis Hamilton #44
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Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
So you go with Wolff having to play up to Hamilton's brittle ego, nice.Zoue wrote:Possibly, but that only addresses this particular incident of course.pokerman wrote:...or he wasn't happy that the drivers ignored the instructions not to go for fastest lap which Hamilton seemingly ignored by chasing down Bottas thus risking the 1-2 which is basically all he cares about?Zoue wrote:I have a theory, but it's just based on circumstantial evidence.TheGiantHogweed wrote:What is is with Toto's face when Bottas beats hamilton 1-2 in qualifying, 1-2 in the race? Every time one of these happens, he just has a firm stare and looks as if he has to put a fake smile on because of the reactions around him. He honestly looks more happy than this when he sees Hamilton win a race when Bottas is more than 1 position behind him. The times when he's really happy is with them finishing 1 - 2 with Hamilton leading. But the difference to his facial expression when it is the other way round is simply huge and i can't understand why. I don't notice it with other people i often see in the garage.
In December 2016 Lewis said he felt disrespected by the team and had to have clear the air talks with Toto. Ever since then Toto has gone out of the way to say how amazing Hamilton is at every opportunity. It could be simply coincidence but maybe Toto feels that looking happy for Bottas might be interpreted as being less respectful to Hamilton.
Could be rubbish of course but it's as good a theory as any
2016 resolved around Hamilton getting a dressing down for the way he drove in the season finale were he felt he had the right to do whatever possible to win the WDC which was still within sporting reason as in not looking to crash out an opponent.
Lewis Hamilton #44
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Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
An unfortunate fact about that race was the lack of action up front again. China wasn't a classic and neither was Baku, and they are often quite a good bet for an exciting GP.
Now Spain and Monaco are coming up, two of the most boring races on the calender. It doesn't bode well at present. Hopefully those races exceed expectations though.
Now Spain and Monaco are coming up, two of the most boring races on the calender. It doesn't bode well at present. Hopefully those races exceed expectations though.
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Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
As dominant as Bottas was in Australia I think this race was maybe even more impressive. He didn't have so much of a pace advantage but it was just a massively controlled mistake free run from lights to flag.
===\ō͡≡\ō͡≡o˞̶ ===\ō͡≡\ō͡≡o˞̶ ===\ō͡≡\ō͡≡o˞̶ ===\ō͡≡\ō͡≡o˞̶ ===\ō͡≡\ō͡≡o˞̶===
Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
I can't help feeling that Leclerc not competing at the front somewhat diminished the race.BMWSauber84 wrote:An unfortunate fact about that race was the lack of action up front again. China wasn't a classic and neither was Baku, and they are often quite a good bet for an exciting GP.
Now Spain and Monaco are coming up, two of the most boring races on the calender. It doesn't bode well at present. Hopefully those races exceed expectations though.
Lewis Hamilton #44
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Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
It was more impressive because Hamilton didn't have a damaged car, Hamilton asked the questions and Bottas had the answers.wolfticket wrote:As dominant as Bottas was in Australia I think this race was maybe even more impressive. He didn't have so much of a pace advantage but it was just a massively controlled mistake free run from lights to flag.
Lewis Hamilton #44
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Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
Congratulations to Valteri! This was probably the most impressive weekend I've seen from him relative to Lewis. He managed to beat Hamilton to the pole on Saturday and he really controllled this race from the front today. Bottas looked like he belonged up front. He wasn't slowing anyone down out there. This is definitely the strongest form he has shown since joining Mercedes.
For Hamilton, this will be a fairly disappointing weekend having been narrowly beaten out by his teammate but Lewis has always stretched his legs when we get to Barcelona and I think he will mostly be happy with their lead over Ferrari at this point. I don't think he will be too worried about Bottas as a title rival although Valteri clearly is on a mission this year. These early races have always been relatively strong for Valteri but it will be interesting to see whether or not he can keep this up when the season moves to Europe.
For Ferrari it just seems like they have not made the most of their potential. There is no way that Mercedes should have four 1-2 finishes from 4 races. I think Ferrari have the potential to challenge Mercedes but it won't matter if they can't get some results in the very near future. 1 or 2 more races like this and the championship will be over. It's only the fact that Bottas has been so competitive that has kept Ferrari alive because neither Merc driver is running away with all of the points.
Max is doing an excellent job this season. He's just got his head down and is getting the maximum from the car. Red Bull have been unlucky but I see potential there. It might be 2020 before they are a real contender but I think they will get there.
It's interesting to note that McLaren have the best Renault-powered car. They may also be the best midfield team with Haas struggling so badly and Renault under-performing. Also in the midfield; Alex Albon can drive! I think Gasly should be looking over his shoulder. This kid Albon makes some great overtakes in almost every race. I really hope he gets to drive the Red Bull next year.
For Hamilton, this will be a fairly disappointing weekend having been narrowly beaten out by his teammate but Lewis has always stretched his legs when we get to Barcelona and I think he will mostly be happy with their lead over Ferrari at this point. I don't think he will be too worried about Bottas as a title rival although Valteri clearly is on a mission this year. These early races have always been relatively strong for Valteri but it will be interesting to see whether or not he can keep this up when the season moves to Europe.
For Ferrari it just seems like they have not made the most of their potential. There is no way that Mercedes should have four 1-2 finishes from 4 races. I think Ferrari have the potential to challenge Mercedes but it won't matter if they can't get some results in the very near future. 1 or 2 more races like this and the championship will be over. It's only the fact that Bottas has been so competitive that has kept Ferrari alive because neither Merc driver is running away with all of the points.
Max is doing an excellent job this season. He's just got his head down and is getting the maximum from the car. Red Bull have been unlucky but I see potential there. It might be 2020 before they are a real contender but I think they will get there.
It's interesting to note that McLaren have the best Renault-powered car. They may also be the best midfield team with Haas struggling so badly and Renault under-performing. Also in the midfield; Alex Albon can drive! I think Gasly should be looking over his shoulder. This kid Albon makes some great overtakes in almost every race. I really hope he gets to drive the Red Bull next year.
Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
No. It was Mercedes, followed by Red Bull, then Ferrari. Which, to be fair, didn't look that far off what we saw today, although I'd say Ferrari and Red Bull looked closer than the sim suggested.pokerman wrote:Did not Verstappen have the best race sim?Zoue wrote:I said their race pace confirmed the FP race sims where they were quickest. What part of that is incorrect?pokerman wrote:I agree with that but you added to that post that Mercedes were fastest.Zoue wrote:But we certainly can't say that Mercedes were the 2nd best car, which was the original point I was contesting? The only evidence we have suggests they were not at a disadvantagepokerman wrote:I agree but with him being out of the picture we can't say that Ferrari were inferior either.
The Mercs looked better in the race sims whilst the Ferrari looked better in the qually sims, but the sims were very short just a few laps after missing FP1, how can we know the fuel loads?
Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
Oh, don't get all bent out of shape. I did say it was circumstantial.pokerman wrote:So you go with Wolff having to play up to Hamilton's brittle ego, nice.Zoue wrote:Possibly, but that only addresses this particular incident of course.pokerman wrote:...or he wasn't happy that the drivers ignored the instructions not to go for fastest lap which Hamilton seemingly ignored by chasing down Bottas thus risking the 1-2 which is basically all he cares about?Zoue wrote:I have a theory, but it's just based on circumstantial evidence.TheGiantHogweed wrote:What is is with Toto's face when Bottas beats hamilton 1-2 in qualifying, 1-2 in the race? Every time one of these happens, he just has a firm stare and looks as if he has to put a fake smile on because of the reactions around him. He honestly looks more happy than this when he sees Hamilton win a race when Bottas is more than 1 position behind him. The times when he's really happy is with them finishing 1 - 2 with Hamilton leading. But the difference to his facial expression when it is the other way round is simply huge and i can't understand why. I don't notice it with other people i often see in the garage.
In December 2016 Lewis said he felt disrespected by the team and had to have clear the air talks with Toto. Ever since then Toto has gone out of the way to say how amazing Hamilton is at every opportunity. It could be simply coincidence but maybe Toto feels that looking happy for Bottas might be interpreted as being less respectful to Hamilton.
Could be rubbish of course but it's as good a theory as any
2016 resolved around Hamilton getting a dressing down for the way he drove in the season finale were he felt he had the right to do whatever possible to win the WDC which was still within sporting reason as in not looking to crash out an opponent.
Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
We can o with the balance of probabilities which showed the race sim results reflected in the race itselfpokerman wrote:So we don't know which is basically the point I'm making.Zoue wrote:yeah, but you know, Bottas only pipped Hamilton by half a tenth and Hamilton didn't have a tow either, so...pokerman wrote:What SC are you talking about?Rockie wrote:You are being disingenuous, Mercedes were toying with the rest in this race.pokerman wrote:I agree but with him being out of the picture we can't say that Ferrari were inferior either.
Leclerc would have had same strategy so no way was he doing anything without the SC which didn't come on pure pace he was no where near the Mercs even if we go by the FP's like you want to do!
Leclerc was much quicker than Vettel throughout the weekend and Vettel only missed pole by 3 tenths and that was without the tow that benefited Bottas.
Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
Did anyone run the hard white-walled tyres throughout the whole weekend - I know nobody ran them in Q or R but how about FP2/3?
The Leclerc strategy was always going to fail without SC, the softs were such a poor race tyre. I wonder if 20-something laps on the meds and the rest on the hards would haven't been better. Or were they so much slower compared to the meds?
The Leclerc strategy was always going to fail without SC, the softs were such a poor race tyre. I wonder if 20-something laps on the meds and the rest on the hards would haven't been better. Or were they so much slower compared to the meds?
Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
Or maybe he's already promised Valtteri's seat to Ocon and is having second thoughts?JN23 wrote:Zoue could be right. Maybe Wolff just doesn't see Bottas a WDC winner and would prefer Hamilton to get the wins and 25 points in the bag to build up a bigger lead over the Ferrari drivers?Zoue wrote:Possibly, but that only addresses this particular incident of course.pokerman wrote:...or he wasn't happy that the drivers ignored the instructions not to go for fastest lap which Hamilton seemingly ignored by chasing down Bottas thus risking the 1-2 which is basically all he cares about?Zoue wrote:I have a theory, but it's just based on circumstantial evidence.TheGiantHogweed wrote:What is is with Toto's face when Bottas beats hamilton 1-2 in qualifying, 1-2 in the race? Every time one of these happens, he just has a firm stare and looks as if he has to put a fake smile on because of the reactions around him. He honestly looks more happy than this when he sees Hamilton win a race when Bottas is more than 1 position behind him. The times when he's really happy is with them finishing 1 - 2 with Hamilton leading. But the difference to his facial expression when it is the other way round is simply huge and i can't understand why. I don't notice it with other people i often see in the garage.
In December 2016 Lewis said he felt disrespected by the team and had to have clear the air talks with Toto. Ever since then Toto has gone out of the way to say how amazing Hamilton is at every opportunity. It could be simply coincidence but maybe Toto feels that looking happy for Bottas might be interpreted as being less respectful to Hamilton.
Could be rubbish of course but it's as good a theory as any
Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
Lewis said in a post race interview that he lost the race because he was too nice in turn one.
Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
Reversing Ricciardo... was this the first time a double-DNF was caused in reverse gear?
Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
Yep also a possibilityCovalent wrote:Or maybe he's already promised Valtteri's seat to Ocon and is having second thoughts?JN23 wrote:Zoue could be right. Maybe Wolff just doesn't see Bottas a WDC winner and would prefer Hamilton to get the wins and 25 points in the bag to build up a bigger lead over the Ferrari drivers?Zoue wrote:Possibly, but that only addresses this particular incident of course.pokerman wrote:...or he wasn't happy that the drivers ignored the instructions not to go for fastest lap which Hamilton seemingly ignored by chasing down Bottas thus risking the 1-2 which is basically all he cares about?Zoue wrote:[quote=I have a theory, but it's just based on circumstantial evidence.
In December 2016 Lewis said he felt disrespected by the team and had to have clear the air talks with Toto. Ever since then Toto has gone out of the way to say how amazing Hamilton is at every opportunity. It could be simply coincidence but maybe Toto feels that looking happy for Bottas might be interpreted as being less respectful to Hamilton.
Could be rubbish of course but it's as good a theory as any
Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
It’s an absolute no brainer that Mercedes would want Hamilton winning instead of Bottas. If Hamilton has an excellent 18 months, he will break Schumachers win total and equal his WDC. That is marketing GOLD for Mercedes. Now and in 10,20,30 years..
Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
I really don't think Toto Wolff cares how easy it is for Merc to market their champion in decades time.Johnson wrote:It’s an absolute no brainer that Mercedes would want Hamilton winning instead of Bottas. If Hamilton has an excellent 18 months, he will break Schumachers win total and equal his WDC. That is marketing GOLD for Mercedes. Now and in 10,20,30 years..
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Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
He was pushing a fellow driver half cars width out of actual racing track and calls it "too nice". What is next?Covalent wrote:Lewis said in a post race interview that he lost the race because he was too nice in turn one.

The end is near
Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
I'd say in F1 terms, Lewis is leaving plenty of space. At least judging from this photo.Lt. Drebin wrote:He was pushing a fellow driver half cars width out of actual racing track and calls it "too nice". What is next?Covalent wrote:Lewis said in a post race interview that he lost the race because he was too nice in turn one.
Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
Have to agree. Ultimately Mercedes will get the kudo regardless of which driver wins anyway. You think back to the McLaren of the late 90s and you'll remember the car irrespective of which driver actually won in each yearmikeyg123 wrote:I really don't think Toto Wolff cares how easy it is for Merc to market their champion in decades time.Johnson wrote:It’s an absolute no brainer that Mercedes would want Hamilton winning instead of Bottas. If Hamilton has an excellent 18 months, he will break Schumachers win total and equal his WDC. That is marketing GOLD for Mercedes. Now and in 10,20,30 years..
Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
Fair enough, with the race sims I look more for the tyre drop off then the times because you never know the fuel load, the sims I saw they were doing 6/7 laps max it seemed.Zoue wrote:No. It was Mercedes, followed by Red Bull, then Ferrari. Which, to be fair, didn't look that far off what we saw today, although I'd say Ferrari and Red Bull looked closer than the sim suggested.pokerman wrote:Did not Verstappen have the best race sim?Zoue wrote:I said their race pace confirmed the FP race sims where they were quickest. What part of that is incorrect?pokerman wrote:I agree with that but you added to that post that Mercedes were fastest.Zoue wrote: But we certainly can't say that Mercedes were the 2nd best car, which was the original point I was contesting? The only evidence we have suggests they were not at a disadvantage
The Mercs looked better in the race sims whilst the Ferrari looked better in the qually sims, but the sims were very short just a few laps after missing FP1, how can we know the fuel loads?
Lewis Hamilton #44
World Drivers Titles: 7 (1st)
Grand Prix Wins: 96 (1st)
Pole Positions: 98 (1st)
Podiums: 166 (1st)
PF1 Pick 10 Competition
2014: Champion
World Drivers Titles: 7 (1st)
Grand Prix Wins: 96 (1st)
Pole Positions: 98 (1st)
Podiums: 166 (1st)
PF1 Pick 10 Competition
2014: Champion
Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread
Well I don't understand why you even went there?Zoue wrote:Oh, don't get all bent out of shape. I did say it was circumstantial.pokerman wrote:So you go with Wolff having to play up to Hamilton's brittle ego, nice.Zoue wrote:Possibly, but that only addresses this particular incident of course.pokerman wrote:...or he wasn't happy that the drivers ignored the instructions not to go for fastest lap which Hamilton seemingly ignored by chasing down Bottas thus risking the 1-2 which is basically all he cares about?Zoue wrote: I have a theory, but it's just based on circumstantial evidence.
In December 2016 Lewis said he felt disrespected by the team and had to have clear the air talks with Toto. Ever since then Toto has gone out of the way to say how amazing Hamilton is at every opportunity. It could be simply coincidence but maybe Toto feels that looking happy for Bottas might be interpreted as being less respectful to Hamilton.
Could be rubbish of course but it's as good a theory as any
2016 resolved around Hamilton getting a dressing down for the way he drove in the season finale were he felt he had the right to do whatever possible to win the WDC which was still within sporting reason as in not looking to crash out an opponent.
Lewis Hamilton #44
World Drivers Titles: 7 (1st)
Grand Prix Wins: 96 (1st)
Pole Positions: 98 (1st)
Podiums: 166 (1st)
PF1 Pick 10 Competition
2014: Champion
World Drivers Titles: 7 (1st)
Grand Prix Wins: 96 (1st)
Pole Positions: 98 (1st)
Podiums: 166 (1st)
PF1 Pick 10 Competition
2014: Champion