2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

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Zoue
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Zoue »

F1Oz wrote:
Rockie wrote:
F1Oz wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Fuel and tyre life corrected he should have been 0.4s faster than Vettel when he set that lap, going by Vettel's time.
The problem is that LeClerk had some sort of gear selection issues for a number of laps which cost him time and performance - although this did seem to resolve - based on team radio and some commentator chat
Even when they said nothing is wrong and all good.

Vettel was faster than Leclerc this weekend and it was just a sluggish start from Bottas and Ferrari being a little too indecisive and waiting too long to make the call that got them in the silly position.

Even Brundle was like they should make the call but they made it 5 laps too late.
Rockie - I don't disagree that Vettel should at least have had a chance to close the gap on the Mercs - but when he didn't - perhaps they should have given the place back (particularly when LeC was starting to expand the gap to Vettel before the call came out - it was up to 1.9+ secs - and the other issue is that LeC wasn't pitted the lap after Vettel - which might have still put him ahead of Max - or at worst right behind - whereas they lost 14 seconds by the strategy they used - and LeC may well have been able to overtake Max on engine power - Ferrari have been abysmal in terms of strategy for some years
The highest the gap ever got was 0.893s, so don't think that's right what you wrote there. In the entire time Vettel was behind Leclerc he never got out of DRS range.

There was also no way that Leclerc was going to come out ahead of Verstappen, as Vettel barely made it. But I do agree that from that point on Ferrari messed up Leclerc's strategy. He was losing way too much time and they left him out far too long. But there was never a point after the switch was made that Vettel could realistically give the place back. He was slowly pulling way from Leclerc, despite Leclerc having a higher engine mode, and after the stop Leclerc lost too much ground anyway.
Last edited by Zoue on Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Rockie
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Rockie »

Zoue wrote:
F1Oz wrote:
Rockie wrote:
F1Oz wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Fuel and tyre life corrected he should have been 0.4s faster than Vettel when he set that lap, going by Vettel's time.
The problem is that LeClerk had some sort of gear selection issues for a number of laps which cost him time and performance - although this did seem to resolve - based on team radio and some commentator chat
Even when they said nothing is wrong and all good.

Vettel was faster than Leclerc this weekend and it was just a sluggish start from Bottas and Ferrari being a little too indecisive and waiting too long to make the call that got them in the silly position.

Even Brundle was like they should make the call but they made it 5 laps too late.
Rockie - I don't disagree that Vettel should at least have had a chance to close the gap on the Mercs - but when he didn't - perhaps they should have given the place back (particularly when LeC was starting to expand the gap to Vettel before the call came out - it was up to 1.9+ secs - and the other issue is that LeC wasn't pitted the lap after Vettel - which might have still put him ahead of Max - or at worst right behind - whereas they lost 14 seconds by the strategy they used - and LeC may well have been able to overtake Max on engine power - Ferrari have been abysmal in terms of strategy for some years
The highest the gap ever got was 0.818s, so don't think that's right what you wrote there. In the entire time Vettel was behind Leclerc he never got out of DRS range.

There was also no way that Leclerc was going to come out ahead of Verstappen, as Vettel barely made it. But I do agree that from that point on Ferrari messed up Leclerc's strategy. He was losing way too much time and they left him out far too long. But there was never a point after the switch was made that Vettel could realistically give the place back. He was slowly pulling way from Leclerc, despite Leclerc having a higher engine mode, and after the stop Leclerc lost too much ground anyway.
It's tiring really tiring, its like some operate in an alternate reality.

Paolo_Lasardi
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:So, we are in the third race of the season, Leclerc is ahead in the race and in the wdc, but is ordered to let Vettel past because he may have been marginally quicker.

I am actually cool with defending this. I am just surprised to see some guys defending it who take every opportunity to condemn Hockenheim 2010. :lol:
We can clearly say that Alonso never enjoyed such preferential treatment at Ferrari so early in the season!
;)
I think i might disagree there after Hockenheim 2010 when was Massa ever allowed to race Alonso?
I can remember at the first race of 2013, Massa was ahead and instead of ordering him out of the way they let him stay ahead and pitted him ahead of Alonso. I'm sure there are plenty of others. This is the most aggressive and clear-cut favoritism policy Ferrari has employed in quite some time, and it seems very ill-conceived to institute it as soon as they have a driver who might be as quick or quicker than their nominal #1.
:thumbup:

Rockie
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Rockie »

Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:So, we are in the third race of the season, Leclerc is ahead in the race and in the wdc, but is ordered to let Vettel past because he may have been marginally quicker.

I am actually cool with defending this. I am just surprised to see some guys defending it who take every opportunity to condemn Hockenheim 2010. :lol:
We can clearly say that Alonso never enjoyed such preferential treatment at Ferrari so early in the season!
;)
I think i might disagree there after Hockenheim 2010 when was Massa ever allowed to race Alonso?
I can remember at the first race of 2013, Massa was ahead and instead of ordering him out of the way they let him stay ahead and pitted him ahead of Alonso. I'm sure there are plenty of others. This is the most aggressive and clear-cut favoritism policy Ferrari has employed in quite some time, and it seems very ill-conceived to institute it as soon as they have a driver who might be as quick or quicker than their nominal #1.
Ferrari broke the gearbox seal of Massa in Austin '12 ensuring he dropped 5 places on the grid to allow Alonso have a better starting position on the grid, you have got to be kidding me really!

Paolo_Lasardi
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

Rockie wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:So, we are in the third race of the season, Leclerc is ahead in the race and in the wdc, but is ordered to let Vettel past because he may have been marginally quicker.

I am actually cool with defending this. I am just surprised to see some guys defending it who take every opportunity to condemn Hockenheim 2010. :lol:
We can clearly say that Alonso never enjoyed such preferential treatment at Ferrari so early in the season!
;)
I think i might disagree there after Hockenheim 2010 when was Massa ever allowed to race Alonso?
I can remember at the first race of 2013, Massa was ahead and instead of ordering him out of the way they let him stay ahead and pitted him ahead of Alonso. I'm sure there are plenty of others. This is the most aggressive and clear-cut favoritism policy Ferrari has employed in quite some time, and it seems very ill-conceived to institute it as soon as they have a driver who might be as quick or quicker than their nominal #1.
Ferrari broke the gearbox seal of Massa in Austin '12 ensuring he dropped 5 places on the grid to allow Alonso have a better starting position on the grid, you have got to be kidding me really!
Well, that was close to the end of the season with only Alonso being in the wdc hunt. Not in race 3 with Vettel actually being behind Leclerc in the wdc ...

Rockie
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Rockie »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:So, we are in the third race of the season, Leclerc is ahead in the race and in the wdc, but is ordered to let Vettel past because he may have been marginally quicker.

I am actually cool with defending this. I am just surprised to see some guys defending it who take every opportunity to condemn Hockenheim 2010. :lol:
We can clearly say that Alonso never enjoyed such preferential treatment at Ferrari so early in the season!
;)
I think i might disagree there after Hockenheim 2010 when was Massa ever allowed to race Alonso?
I can remember at the first race of 2013, Massa was ahead and instead of ordering him out of the way they let him stay ahead and pitted him ahead of Alonso. I'm sure there are plenty of others. This is the most aggressive and clear-cut favoritism policy Ferrari has employed in quite some time, and it seems very ill-conceived to institute it as soon as they have a driver who might be as quick or quicker than their nominal #1.
Ferrari broke the gearbox seal of Massa in Austin '12 ensuring he dropped 5 places on the grid to allow Alonso have a better starting position on the grid, you have got to be kidding me really!
Well, that was close to the end of the season with only Alonso being in the wdc hunt. Not in race 3 with Vettel actually being behind Leclerc in the wdc ...
Lol the mental gymnastics is interesting!

Paolo_Lasardi
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

Facts are mental gymnastics? Okay ....

Rockie
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Rockie »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Facts are mental gymnastics? Okay ....
Facts are not mental gymnastics, except it is being used in a malicious way, for you if I understand you correctly Ferrari moving Leclerc aside in front of Vettel is worse than Ferrari breaking Massa's gearbox seal to allow Alonso move up a place whilst ensuring Massa dropped 5 places.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

mikeyg123
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

Rockie wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Facts are mental gymnastics? Okay ....
Facts are not mental gymnastics, except it is being used in a malicious way, for you if I understand you correctly Ferrari moving Leclerc aside in front of Vettel is worse than Ferrari breaking Massa's gearbox seal to allow Alonso move up a place whilst ensuring Massa dropped 5 places.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
Facts always need context to make sense.

pokerman
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

Rockie wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:So, we are in the third race of the season, Leclerc is ahead in the race and in the wdc, but is ordered to let Vettel past because he may have been marginally quicker.

I am actually cool with defending this. I am just surprised to see some guys defending it who take every opportunity to condemn Hockenheim 2010. :lol:
We can clearly say that Alonso never enjoyed such preferential treatment at Ferrari so early in the season!
;)
I think i might disagree there after Hockenheim 2010 when was Massa ever allowed to race Alonso?
I can remember at the first race of 2013, Massa was ahead and instead of ordering him out of the way they let him stay ahead and pitted him ahead of Alonso. I'm sure there are plenty of others. This is the most aggressive and clear-cut favoritism policy Ferrari has employed in quite some time, and it seems very ill-conceived to institute it as soon as they have a driver who might be as quick or quicker than their nominal #1.
Ferrari broke the gearbox seal of Massa in Austin '12 ensuring he dropped 5 places on the grid to allow Alonso have a better starting position on the grid, you have got to be kidding me really!
That was near the end if the season when Massa himself was out of contention though.
Last edited by pokerman on Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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pokerman
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

Rockie wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote: I think i might disagree there after Hockenheim 2010 when was Massa ever allowed to race Alonso?
I can remember at the first race of 2013, Massa was ahead and instead of ordering him out of the way they let him stay ahead and pitted him ahead of Alonso. I'm sure there are plenty of others. This is the most aggressive and clear-cut favoritism policy Ferrari has employed in quite some time, and it seems very ill-conceived to institute it as soon as they have a driver who might be as quick or quicker than their nominal #1.
Ferrari broke the gearbox seal of Massa in Austin '12 ensuring he dropped 5 places on the grid to allow Alonso have a better starting position on the grid, you have got to be kidding me really!
Well, that was close to the end of the season with only Alonso being in the wdc hunt. Not in race 3 with Vettel actually being behind Leclerc in the wdc ...
Lol the mental gymnastics is interesting!
From you not to see the difference then yes.
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Rockie
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Rockie »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Facts are mental gymnastics? Okay ....
Facts are not mental gymnastics, except it is being used in a malicious way, for you if I understand you correctly Ferrari moving Leclerc aside in front of Vettel is worse than Ferrari breaking Massa's gearbox seal to allow Alonso move up a place whilst ensuring Massa dropped 5 places.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
Facts always need context to make sense.
No context makes what happened that day right, or can ever make it right!

Rockie
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Rockie »

pokerman wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Ferrari broke the gearbox seal of Massa in Austin '12 ensuring he dropped 5 places on the grid to allow Alonso have a better starting position on the grid, you have got to be kidding me really!
That was near the end if the season when Massa himself was out of contention though.
Even if it was the last race there is no way what transpired that day could be justified!

Fiki
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Fiki »

Rockie wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Ferrari broke the gearbox seal of Massa in Austin '12 ensuring he dropped 5 places on the grid to allow Alonso have a better starting position on the grid, you have got to be kidding me really!
That was near the end if the season when Massa himself was out of contention though.
Even if it was the last race there is no way what transpired that day could be justified!
I wouldn't be at all surprised if Massa himself would disagree with you on that point.
I have never been a fan of team orders, and never will be. But it doesn't prevent me from seeing that late season adaptations can be perfectly acceptable and even necessary. I wouldn't say this was the worst example of Ferrari team orders, but it certainly was at least as cynical as Austria 2002.
Use every man after his desert, and who should scape whipping? Use them after your own honour and dignity.

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kowen1208
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by kowen1208 »

This Leclerc bandwagon is insane! Let's put it into context: he's in only his second year of F1, he's the youngest driver at Ferrari since 1961, and he's paired with a 4x WDC in his 12th season. Ferrari said they would give Vettel preference, but that the two would be allowed to race.

Ferrari told Leclerc to wait two laps before making a move on Vettel in Bahrain, but he disobeyed and went sooner. Ferrari gave Leclerc several laps to match the pace of Mercedes in China before ordering him to let Vettel pass. Leclerc has solidly out-performed Vettel in one of the three races, and they've been fairly close in terms of pace in the other two. And before you get into Leclerc closing the gap on Vettel in Melbourne; Vettel had absolutely no reason to increase his pace at that point in the race.

I really don't see how all the outrage is justified. The kid is great so far, but he needs to prove himself in more than just one race before he's going to earn preferential treatment. Seriously, give him some time.

Paolo_Lasardi
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

Rockie wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Facts are mental gymnastics? Okay ....
Facts are not mental gymnastics, except it is being used in a malicious way, for you if I understand you correctly Ferrari moving Leclerc aside in front of Vettel is worse than Ferrari breaking Massa's gearbox seal to allow Alonso move up a place whilst ensuring Massa dropped 5 places.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
You are wrong with respect to the point I made. Never in the Alonso years was preferential treatment put out so early in the season and against the driver who is ahead in the wdc.

As for what is worse - that really is a matter of opinion and not mental gymnastics either. So, yes, you are wrong here as well.

kowen1208
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by kowen1208 »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Facts are mental gymnastics? Okay ....
Facts are not mental gymnastics, except it is being used in a malicious way, for you if I understand you correctly Ferrari moving Leclerc aside in front of Vettel is worse than Ferrari breaking Massa's gearbox seal to allow Alonso move up a place whilst ensuring Massa dropped 5 places.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
You are wrong with respect to the point I made. Never in the Alonso years was preferential treatment put out so early in the season and against the driver who is ahead in the wdc.

As for what is worse - that really is a matter of opinion and not mental gymnastics either. So, yes, you are wrong here as well.
A big deal is being made about Leclerc having been ahead in the WDC. Let's say Leclerc finished 9th and Vettel finished 10th. Then let's say the China situation happened at Bahrain instead. Would you still be saying it was unfair? The hypothetical situation is just an exaggeration of the actual situation. Yes, Leclerc was ahead on points, but marginally, and they were both far short of Ferrari's expectations. Is it not likely that part of Ferrari's reasoning in letting Vettel pass was that the points scored were not indicative of where they expect the team and each driver to be? For as much as some of you are saying Leclerc is being treated unfairly, I think switching preference already would be even more unfair to Vettel. Three races is just too small a sample size with too many variables Ferrari weren't expecting.

sandman1347
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by sandman1347 »

kowen1208 wrote:This Leclerc bandwagon is insane! Let's put it into context: he's in only his second year of F1, he's the youngest driver at Ferrari since 1961, and he's paired with a 4x WDC in his 12th season. Ferrari said they would give Vettel preference, but that the two would be allowed to race.

Ferrari told Leclerc to wait two laps before making a move on Vettel in Bahrain, but he disobeyed and went sooner. Ferrari gave Leclerc several laps to match the pace of Mercedes in China before ordering him to let Vettel pass. Leclerc has solidly out-performed Vettel in one of the three races, and they've been fairly close in terms of pace in the other two. And before you get into Leclerc closing the gap on Vettel in Melbourne; Vettel had absolutely no reason to increase his pace at that point in the race.

I really don't see how all the outrage is justified. The kid is great so far, but he needs to prove himself in more than just one race before he's going to earn preferential treatment. Seriously, give him some time.
The simple fact is that in Australia, the team protected Vettel from Leclerc. In China they simply handed Vettel a position that was Leclerc's on track. He was handed the position under the notion that he was faster but it turned out that he was not meaningfully faster. Because he wasn't fast enough to stretch the lead over Max in the Red Bull, Leclerc actually lost 2 positions and then Ferrari did to his race what they've been doing to Kimi's races for the last few years; basically just hung him out to dry.

I just think they have things wrong. They need a moment like Monaco 2007, where they realize that, while they didn't expect the youngster to be able to perform at the same level as the champ, that is exactly what is happening. When the team has held Leclerc back in 2 out of 3 races and his engine suffered a mechanical issue in the third race, that just doesn't seem to be a case of doing the sensible thing. Without Ferrari's intervention, they would have one driver who is a lot closer to the Merc's in the points. I think they made a mistake in predetermining who their best driver was. The fact is that, on the basis of performance alone, there is no reason to give Vettel preferential treatment. No one seems to be thinking of this but these points that they are costing Charles right now could come back to bite them in the championship.

Option or Prime
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Option or Prime »

sandman1347 wrote:[
The simple fact is that in Australia, the team protected Vettel from Leclerc. In China they simply handed Vettel a position that was Leclerc's on track. He was handed the position under the notion that he was faster but it turned out that he was not meaningfully faster. Because he wasn't fast enough to stretch the lead over Max in the Red Bull, Leclerc actually lost 2 positions and then Ferrari did to his race what they've been doing to Kimi's races for the last few years; basically just hung him out to dry.
Agree with this plus remember that Leclerc had actually overtaken Vettel at the start. Ferrari simply need to take their finger out of the pie and let it be decided on the race track. That way both drivers succeed or fail based on their overall performances. I know its only 3 races in but haven't Ferrari already lost both WDC's?

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Black_Flag_11
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

Option or Prime wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:[
The simple fact is that in Australia, the team protected Vettel from Leclerc. In China they simply handed Vettel a position that was Leclerc's on track. He was handed the position under the notion that he was faster but it turned out that he was not meaningfully faster. Because he wasn't fast enough to stretch the lead over Max in the Red Bull, Leclerc actually lost 2 positions and then Ferrari did to his race what they've been doing to Kimi's races for the last few years; basically just hung him out to dry.
Agree with this plus remember that Leclerc had actually overtaken Vettel at the start. Ferrari simply need to take their finger out of the pie and let it be decided on the race track. That way both drivers succeed or fail based on their overall performances. I know its only 3 races in but haven't Ferrari already lost both WDC's?
Well one of them was impossible to win to begin with.

Option or Prime
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Option or Prime »

Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:[
The simple fact is that in Australia, the team protected Vettel from Leclerc. In China they simply handed Vettel a position that was Leclerc's on track. He was handed the position under the notion that he was faster but it turned out that he was not meaningfully faster. Because he wasn't fast enough to stretch the lead over Max in the Red Bull, Leclerc actually lost 2 positions and then Ferrari did to his race what they've been doing to Kimi's races for the last few years; basically just hung him out to dry.
Agree with this plus remember that Leclerc had actually overtaken Vettel at the start. Ferrari simply need to take their finger out of the pie and let it be decided on the race track. That way both drivers succeed or fail based on their overall performances. I know its only 3 races in but haven't Ferrari already lost both WDC's?
Well one of them was impossible to win to begin with.
Sorry, I've confused you I mean this years WDC and WCC.

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Black_Flag_11
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

Option or Prime wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:[
The simple fact is that in Australia, the team protected Vettel from Leclerc. In China they simply handed Vettel a position that was Leclerc's on track. He was handed the position under the notion that he was faster but it turned out that he was not meaningfully faster. Because he wasn't fast enough to stretch the lead over Max in the Red Bull, Leclerc actually lost 2 positions and then Ferrari did to his race what they've been doing to Kimi's races for the last few years; basically just hung him out to dry.
Agree with this plus remember that Leclerc had actually overtaken Vettel at the start. Ferrari simply need to take their finger out of the pie and let it be decided on the race track. That way both drivers succeed or fail based on their overall performances. I know its only 3 races in but haven't Ferrari already lost both WDC's?
Well one of them was impossible to win to begin with.
Sorry, I've confused you I mean this years WDC and WCC.
I know I was only joking ;)

Too early to say Ferrari cant win the championship though IMO, Mercedes are favourites currently but that could still change with a few Bahrain type performances from Ferrari over the coming races.

pokerman
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

Rockie wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Ferrari broke the gearbox seal of Massa in Austin '12 ensuring he dropped 5 places on the grid to allow Alonso have a better starting position on the grid, you have got to be kidding me really!
That was near the end if the season when Massa himself was out of contention though.
Even if it was the last race there is no way what transpired that day could be justified!
I agree it was a bit over the top but then again worse has been done to aid Alonso.
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pokerman
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

kowen1208 wrote:This Leclerc bandwagon is insane! Let's put it into context: he's in only his second year of F1, he's the youngest driver at Ferrari since 1961, and he's paired with a 4x WDC in his 12th season. Ferrari said they would give Vettel preference, but that the two would be allowed to race.

Ferrari told Leclerc to wait two laps before making a move on Vettel in Bahrain, but he disobeyed and went sooner. Ferrari gave Leclerc several laps to match the pace of Mercedes in China before ordering him to let Vettel pass. Leclerc has solidly out-performed Vettel in one of the three races, and they've been fairly close in terms of pace in the other two. And before you get into Leclerc closing the gap on Vettel in Melbourne; Vettel had absolutely no reason to increase his pace at that point in the race.

I really don't see how all the outrage is justified. The kid is great so far, but he needs to prove himself in more than just one race before he's going to earn preferential treatment. Seriously, give him some time.
Is he asking for preferential treatment, 3 races down and team orders issued to Leclec in every race, Leclerc couldn't keep up with Bottas but when Vettel hit the front the gap grew even faster, as soon as Vettel hit the front the Ferrari lap times fell by over half a second a lap yet Vettel felt he could go quicker.
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Paolo_Lasardi
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

kowen1208 wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Facts are mental gymnastics? Okay ....
Facts are not mental gymnastics, except it is being used in a malicious way, for you if I understand you correctly Ferrari moving Leclerc aside in front of Vettel is worse than Ferrari breaking Massa's gearbox seal to allow Alonso move up a place whilst ensuring Massa dropped 5 places.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
You are wrong with respect to the point I made. Never in the Alonso years was preferential treatment put out so early in the season and against the driver who is ahead in the wdc.

As for what is worse - that really is a matter of opinion and not mental gymnastics either. So, yes, you are wrong here as well.
A big deal is being made about Leclerc having been ahead in the WDC. Let's say Leclerc finished 9th and Vettel finished 10th. Then let's say the China situation happened at Bahrain instead. Would you still be saying it was unfair? The hypothetical situation is just an exaggeration of the actual situation. Yes, Leclerc was ahead on points, but marginally, and they were both far short of Ferrari's expectations. Is it not likely that part of Ferrari's reasoning in letting Vettel pass was that the points scored were not indicative of where they expect the team and each driver to be? For as much as some of you are saying Leclerc is being treated unfairly, I think switching preference already would be even more unfair to Vettel. Three races is just too small a sample size with too many variables Ferrari weren't expecting.
Well, Leclerc would be significantly ahead of Vettel in the wdc without the team holding him back behind both in AUS and in China as well as without the reliability issue in Bahrain.

But mind you, my point was just that Vettel enjoys much earlier (in the season) preferential treatment and less performance-based than Alonso ever did.

Caserole of Nonsense
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Caserole of Nonsense »

just let them race. im sure the drivers have enough respect for each other and the team for it not to turn into perez ocon. i would be pretty confident that they would end up with more team points overall. trying to manipulate results to favour one of what looks like two very evenly matched drivers is never going to work.
My impression is that merc have a lot more respect as team for the way they let their drivers race, then ferrari. does anyone actually like ferrari as a team (not a brand or the drivers)

Zoue
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Zoue »

pokerman wrote:
kowen1208 wrote:This Leclerc bandwagon is insane! Let's put it into context: he's in only his second year of F1, he's the youngest driver at Ferrari since 1961, and he's paired with a 4x WDC in his 12th season. Ferrari said they would give Vettel preference, but that the two would be allowed to race.

Ferrari told Leclerc to wait two laps before making a move on Vettel in Bahrain, but he disobeyed and went sooner. Ferrari gave Leclerc several laps to match the pace of Mercedes in China before ordering him to let Vettel pass. Leclerc has solidly out-performed Vettel in one of the three races, and they've been fairly close in terms of pace in the other two. And before you get into Leclerc closing the gap on Vettel in Melbourne; Vettel had absolutely no reason to increase his pace at that point in the race.

I really don't see how all the outrage is justified. The kid is great so far, but he needs to prove himself in more than just one race before he's going to earn preferential treatment. Seriously, give him some time.
Is he asking for preferential treatment, 3 races down and team orders issued to Leclec in every race, Leclerc couldn't keep up with Bottas but when Vettel hit the front the gap grew even faster, as soon as Vettel hit the front the Ferrari lap times fell by over half a second a lap yet Vettel felt he could go quicker.
It's been reported that spending so long close behind Leclerc took the life out of Vettel's front tyres. After all, after Vettel went in Leclerc went even slower, so Vettel definitely wasn't holding him up. And even Brundle said in the opening laps that Ferrari were losing too much time and they should be getting Vettel past. Strange how things turn after the race and all of a sudden it's somehow a strange decision..

Bahrain is being over-egged IMO. They asked Leclerc to wait two laps which is hardly a crime.

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Black_Flag_11
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

Caserole of Nonsense wrote:just let them race. im sure the drivers have enough respect for each other and the team for it not to turn into perez ocon. i would be pretty confident that they would end up with more team points overall. trying to manipulate results to favour one of what looks like two very evenly matched drivers is never going to work.
My impression is that merc have a lot more respect as team for the way they let their drivers race, then ferrari. does anyone actually like ferrari as a team (not a brand or the drivers)
Last season Mercedes were far more egregious with their use of team orders than Ferrari were.

If your measure of how much a team respects its drivers is whether they use team orders against them (and I dont agree with that premise) then I dont see how you could argue Mercedes have an ounce of respect for Bottas.
Last edited by Black_Flag_11 on Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

Zoue
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Zoue »

Caserole of Nonsense wrote:just let them race. im sure the drivers have enough respect for each other and the team for it not to turn into perez ocon. i would be pretty confident that they would end up with more team points overall. trying to manipulate results to favour one of what looks like two very evenly matched drivers is never going to work.
My impression is that merc have a lot more respect as team for the way they let their drivers race, then ferrari. does anyone actually like ferrari as a team (not a brand or the drivers)
I suspect given all the furore that Ferrari might be a bit more circumspect with team orders in the future. But I disagree it shows a lack of respect. To me it just looks like they are completely focused on winning the title(s) and are doing everything they can do that. I don't really get all the pearl-clutching as Ferrari admitted they would do exactly this before the season even started. They felt that Vettel, with his proven ability, would be a better horse to back than Leclerc, who is still largely untested, and they are canny enough to know that every point counts in the end. The fact that Leclerc has risen to the challenge admirably may make them reconsider that but I don't think it has shown Ferrari in a poor light. If Vettel had pulled away after being let through then doubtless the decision would have looked brave, but it's hardly Ferrari's fault that Vettel didn't meet the expectation after the fact.

I also think Mercedes aren't poster boys for being respectful of their drivers. The way they hung Nico out to dry after Spa 2014 was absolutely awful IMO

pokerman
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
kowen1208 wrote:This Leclerc bandwagon is insane! Let's put it into context: he's in only his second year of F1, he's the youngest driver at Ferrari since 1961, and he's paired with a 4x WDC in his 12th season. Ferrari said they would give Vettel preference, but that the two would be allowed to race.

Ferrari told Leclerc to wait two laps before making a move on Vettel in Bahrain, but he disobeyed and went sooner. Ferrari gave Leclerc several laps to match the pace of Mercedes in China before ordering him to let Vettel pass. Leclerc has solidly out-performed Vettel in one of the three races, and they've been fairly close in terms of pace in the other two. And before you get into Leclerc closing the gap on Vettel in Melbourne; Vettel had absolutely no reason to increase his pace at that point in the race.

I really don't see how all the outrage is justified. The kid is great so far, but he needs to prove himself in more than just one race before he's going to earn preferential treatment. Seriously, give him some time.
Is he asking for preferential treatment, 3 races down and team orders issued to Leclec in every race, Leclerc couldn't keep up with Bottas but when Vettel hit the front the gap grew even faster, as soon as Vettel hit the front the Ferrari lap times fell by over half a second a lap yet Vettel felt he could go quicker.
It's been reported that spending so long close behind Leclerc took the life out of Vettel's front tyres. After all, after Vettel went in Leclerc went even slower, so Vettel definitely wasn't holding him up. And even Brundle said in the opening laps that Ferrari were losing too much time and they should be getting Vettel past. Strange how things turn after the race and all of a sudden it's somehow a strange decision..

Bahrain is being over-egged IMO. They asked Leclerc to wait two laps which is hardly a crime.
Leclerc was going slower primarily because once Vettel got in front Vettel was also going slower, did Vettel not get a feel that his tyres had gone because as soon as he got in front of Leclerc he had no pace?
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pokerman
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

Zoue wrote:
Caserole of Nonsense wrote:just let them race. im sure the drivers have enough respect for each other and the team for it not to turn into perez ocon. i would be pretty confident that they would end up with more team points overall. trying to manipulate results to favour one of what looks like two very evenly matched drivers is never going to work.
My impression is that merc have a lot more respect as team for the way they let their drivers race, then ferrari. does anyone actually like ferrari as a team (not a brand or the drivers)
I suspect given all the furore that Ferrari might be a bit more circumspect with team orders in the future. But I disagree it shows a lack of respect. To me it just looks like they are completely focused on winning the title(s) and are doing everything they can do that. I don't really get all the pearl-clutching as Ferrari admitted they would do exactly this before the season even started. They felt that Vettel, with his proven ability, would be a better horse to back than Leclerc, who is still largely untested, and they are canny enough to know that every point counts in the end. The fact that Leclerc has risen to the challenge admirably may make them reconsider that but I don't think it has shown Ferrari in a poor light. If Vettel had pulled away after being let through then doubtless the decision would have looked brave, but it's hardly Ferrari's fault that Vettel didn't meet the expectation after the fact.

I also think Mercedes aren't poster boys for being respectful of their drivers. The way they hung Nico out to dry after Spa 2014 was absolutely awful IMO
Let's see how Ferrari deal with the situation of Leclerc and Vettel actually crashing into one another?
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kleefton
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by kleefton »

pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
kowen1208 wrote:This Leclerc bandwagon is insane! Let's put it into context: he's in only his second year of F1, he's the youngest driver at Ferrari since 1961, and he's paired with a 4x WDC in his 12th season. Ferrari said they would give Vettel preference, but that the two would be allowed to race.

Ferrari told Leclerc to wait two laps before making a move on Vettel in Bahrain, but he disobeyed and went sooner. Ferrari gave Leclerc several laps to match the pace of Mercedes in China before ordering him to let Vettel pass. Leclerc has solidly out-performed Vettel in one of the three races, and they've been fairly close in terms of pace in the other two. And before you get into Leclerc closing the gap on Vettel in Melbourne; Vettel had absolutely no reason to increase his pace at that point in the race.

I really don't see how all the outrage is justified. The kid is great so far, but he needs to prove himself in more than just one race before he's going to earn preferential treatment. Seriously, give him some time.
Is he asking for preferential treatment, 3 races down and team orders issued to Leclec in every race, Leclerc couldn't keep up with Bottas but when Vettel hit the front the gap grew even faster, as soon as Vettel hit the front the Ferrari lap times fell by over half a second a lap yet Vettel felt he could go quicker.
It's been reported that spending so long close behind Leclerc took the life out of Vettel's front tyres. After all, after Vettel went in Leclerc went even slower, so Vettel definitely wasn't holding him up. And even Brundle said in the opening laps that Ferrari were losing too much time and they should be getting Vettel past. Strange how things turn after the race and all of a sudden it's somehow a strange decision..

Bahrain is being over-egged IMO. They asked Leclerc to wait two laps which is hardly a crime.
Leclerc was going slower primarily because once Vettel got in front Vettel was also going slower, did Vettel not get a feel that his tyres had gone because as soon as he got in front of Leclerc he had no pace?
He had no pace because he burned his tires while glued to Leclerc’s gearbox for most of the first stint. To me it is even more evident he had more pace because he easily dropped Verstappen in the second stint whilst when he had to go at Leclerc’s pace in the first stint Max was able to stay in touch.

Max was actually close to Leclerc’s pace this race imo. If Bottas didn’t block Vettel on the first lap, which allowed Leclerc to gain the position I think we would have seen a nice battle between Max and Charles and all this team order nonsense would have been nonexistent.

Rockie
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Rockie »

kleefton wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
kowen1208 wrote:This Leclerc bandwagon is insane! Let's put it into context: he's in only his second year of F1, he's the youngest driver at Ferrari since 1961, and he's paired with a 4x WDC in his 12th season. Ferrari said they would give Vettel preference, but that the two would be allowed to race.

Ferrari told Leclerc to wait two laps before making a move on Vettel in Bahrain, but he disobeyed and went sooner. Ferrari gave Leclerc several laps to match the pace of Mercedes in China before ordering him to let Vettel pass. Leclerc has solidly out-performed Vettel in one of the three races, and they've been fairly close in terms of pace in the other two. And before you get into Leclerc closing the gap on Vettel in Melbourne; Vettel had absolutely no reason to increase his pace at that point in the race.

I really don't see how all the outrage is justified. The kid is great so far, but he needs to prove himself in more than just one race before he's going to earn preferential treatment. Seriously, give him some time.
Is he asking for preferential treatment, 3 races down and team orders issued to Leclec in every race, Leclerc couldn't keep up with Bottas but when Vettel hit the front the gap grew even faster, as soon as Vettel hit the front the Ferrari lap times fell by over half a second a lap yet Vettel felt he could go quicker.
It's been reported that spending so long close behind Leclerc took the life out of Vettel's front tyres. After all, after Vettel went in Leclerc went even slower, so Vettel definitely wasn't holding him up. And even Brundle said in the opening laps that Ferrari were losing too much time and they should be getting Vettel past. Strange how things turn after the race and all of a sudden it's somehow a strange decision..

Bahrain is being over-egged IMO. They asked Leclerc to wait two laps which is hardly a crime.
Leclerc was going slower primarily because once Vettel got in front Vettel was also going slower, did Vettel not get a feel that his tyres had gone because as soon as he got in front of Leclerc he had no pace?
He had no pace because he burned his tires while glued to Leclerc’s gearbox for most of the first stint. To me it is even more evident he had more pace because he easily dropped Verstappen in the second stint whilst when he had to go at Leclerc’s pace in the first stint Max was able to stay in touch.

Max was actually close to Leclerc’s pace this race imo. If Bottas didn’t block Vettel on the first lap, which allowed Leclerc to gain the position I think we would have seen a nice battle between Max and Charles and all this team order nonsense would have been nonexistent.
Exactly this, Ferrari released Vettel only just ahead of Max and after the attempted overtake due to DRS he dropped Max, also Leclerc with higher engine mode could not drop Vettel so the they were close in pace was because of Bottas impeding Vettel at the start!

Even with his tyre done he was dropping him till the two lock ups!

Zoue
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Zoue »

pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
kowen1208 wrote:This Leclerc bandwagon is insane! Let's put it into context: he's in only his second year of F1, he's the youngest driver at Ferrari since 1961, and he's paired with a 4x WDC in his 12th season. Ferrari said they would give Vettel preference, but that the two would be allowed to race.

Ferrari told Leclerc to wait two laps before making a move on Vettel in Bahrain, but he disobeyed and went sooner. Ferrari gave Leclerc several laps to match the pace of Mercedes in China before ordering him to let Vettel pass. Leclerc has solidly out-performed Vettel in one of the three races, and they've been fairly close in terms of pace in the other two. And before you get into Leclerc closing the gap on Vettel in Melbourne; Vettel had absolutely no reason to increase his pace at that point in the race.

I really don't see how all the outrage is justified. The kid is great so far, but he needs to prove himself in more than just one race before he's going to earn preferential treatment. Seriously, give him some time.
Is he asking for preferential treatment, 3 races down and team orders issued to Leclec in every race, Leclerc couldn't keep up with Bottas but when Vettel hit the front the gap grew even faster, as soon as Vettel hit the front the Ferrari lap times fell by over half a second a lap yet Vettel felt he could go quicker.
It's been reported that spending so long close behind Leclerc took the life out of Vettel's front tyres. After all, after Vettel went in Leclerc went even slower, so Vettel definitely wasn't holding him up. And even Brundle said in the opening laps that Ferrari were losing too much time and they should be getting Vettel past. Strange how things turn after the race and all of a sudden it's somehow a strange decision..

Bahrain is being over-egged IMO. They asked Leclerc to wait two laps which is hardly a crime.
Leclerc was going slower primarily because once Vettel got in front Vettel was also going slower, did Vettel not get a feel that his tyres had gone because as soon as he got in front of Leclerc he had no pace?
Leclerc went slower still after Vettel pitted, which was what I wrote above. And Vettel was in Leclerc's DRS range for the entire time he was behind him, whereas Leclerc couldn't manage the same in reverse.

I think there's little doubt Vettel was quicker, only the difference was a lot smaller than Ferrari hoped for

Zoue
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Zoue »

pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Caserole of Nonsense wrote:just let them race. im sure the drivers have enough respect for each other and the team for it not to turn into perez ocon. i would be pretty confident that they would end up with more team points overall. trying to manipulate results to favour one of what looks like two very evenly matched drivers is never going to work.
My impression is that merc have a lot more respect as team for the way they let their drivers race, then ferrari. does anyone actually like ferrari as a team (not a brand or the drivers)
I suspect given all the furore that Ferrari might be a bit more circumspect with team orders in the future. But I disagree it shows a lack of respect. To me it just looks like they are completely focused on winning the title(s) and are doing everything they can do that. I don't really get all the pearl-clutching as Ferrari admitted they would do exactly this before the season even started. They felt that Vettel, with his proven ability, would be a better horse to back than Leclerc, who is still largely untested, and they are canny enough to know that every point counts in the end. The fact that Leclerc has risen to the challenge admirably may make them reconsider that but I don't think it has shown Ferrari in a poor light. If Vettel had pulled away after being let through then doubtless the decision would have looked brave, but it's hardly Ferrari's fault that Vettel didn't meet the expectation after the fact.

I also think Mercedes aren't poster boys for being respectful of their drivers. The way they hung Nico out to dry after Spa 2014 was absolutely awful IMO
Let's see how Ferrari deal with the situation of Leclerc and Vettel actually crashing into one another?
absolutely. It's always good to reserve judgement on these things until after they've actually happened

Zoue
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Zoue »

kleefton wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
kowen1208 wrote:This Leclerc bandwagon is insane! Let's put it into context: he's in only his second year of F1, he's the youngest driver at Ferrari since 1961, and he's paired with a 4x WDC in his 12th season. Ferrari said they would give Vettel preference, but that the two would be allowed to race.

Ferrari told Leclerc to wait two laps before making a move on Vettel in Bahrain, but he disobeyed and went sooner. Ferrari gave Leclerc several laps to match the pace of Mercedes in China before ordering him to let Vettel pass. Leclerc has solidly out-performed Vettel in one of the three races, and they've been fairly close in terms of pace in the other two. And before you get into Leclerc closing the gap on Vettel in Melbourne; Vettel had absolutely no reason to increase his pace at that point in the race.

I really don't see how all the outrage is justified. The kid is great so far, but he needs to prove himself in more than just one race before he's going to earn preferential treatment. Seriously, give him some time.
Is he asking for preferential treatment, 3 races down and team orders issued to Leclec in every race, Leclerc couldn't keep up with Bottas but when Vettel hit the front the gap grew even faster, as soon as Vettel hit the front the Ferrari lap times fell by over half a second a lap yet Vettel felt he could go quicker.
It's been reported that spending so long close behind Leclerc took the life out of Vettel's front tyres. After all, after Vettel went in Leclerc went even slower, so Vettel definitely wasn't holding him up. And even Brundle said in the opening laps that Ferrari were losing too much time and they should be getting Vettel past. Strange how things turn after the race and all of a sudden it's somehow a strange decision..

Bahrain is being over-egged IMO. They asked Leclerc to wait two laps which is hardly a crime.
Leclerc was going slower primarily because once Vettel got in front Vettel was also going slower, did Vettel not get a feel that his tyres had gone because as soon as he got in front of Leclerc he had no pace?
He had no pace because he burned his tires while glued to Leclerc’s gearbox for most of the first stint. To me it is even more evident he had more pace because he easily dropped Verstappen in the second stint whilst when he had to go at Leclerc’s pace in the first stint Max was able to stay in touch.

Max was actually close to Leclerc’s pace this race imo. If Bottas didn’t block Vettel on the first lap, which allowed Leclerc to gain the position I think we would have seen a nice battle between Max and Charles and all this team order nonsense would have been nonexistent.
yeah agree with this

Yellowbin74
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Yellowbin74 »

Ignoring previous races, I can see why they switched around in China.

The problem was that Vettel wasn't any faster, and they couldn't switch back (even if they wanted to) as Verstappen was too close.

If they had pitted Charles before Max (and not given Red Bull enough time to react with their own stop on the same lap), then Seb on the next lap, the order would probably have been restored and both would be in front of Max.
Should I grow a beard?

Caserole of Nonsense
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Caserole of Nonsense »

Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Caserole of Nonsense wrote:just let them race. im sure the drivers have enough respect for each other and the team for it not to turn into perez ocon. i would be pretty confident that they would end up with more team points overall. trying to manipulate results to favour one of what looks like two very evenly matched drivers is never going to work.
My impression is that merc have a lot more respect as team for the way they let their drivers race, then ferrari. does anyone actually like ferrari as a team (not a brand or the drivers)
Last season Mercedes were far more egregious with their use of team orders than Ferrari were.

If your measure of how much a team respects its drivers is whether they use team orders against them (and I dont agree with that premise) then I dont see how you could argue Mercedes have an ounce of respect for Bottas.

in terms of respect yes i think they have been disrespectful to many drivers past and present. i think they are also disrespectful to the sport and fans. they dont care what i think but their actions over the years make me respect them less. i have no problem with team orders late in a season. have merc ever used team orders in the first 3 races of a season? would merc have made the same call on sunday? i very much doubt it. how many times have merc made a call that has cost bottas places through bad stategy? i do remember bottas being used as a blocker once but ferrari have used kimi like that loads of times and now leclerc. i think merc have more respect for the sport and fans then ferrari. they could easily have made hamilton defacto no1 from 2014 on but didnt. ferrari only care about winning at any cost eg 2002.

Caserole of Nonsense
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Caserole of Nonsense »

Zoue wrote:
Caserole of Nonsense wrote:just let them race. im sure the drivers have enough respect for each other and the team for it not to turn into perez ocon. i would be pretty confident that they would end up with more team points overall. trying to manipulate results to favour one of what looks like two very evenly matched drivers is never going to work.
My impression is that merc have a lot more respect as team for the way they let their drivers race, then ferrari. does anyone actually like ferrari as a team (not a brand or the drivers)
I suspect given all the furore that Ferrari might be a bit more circumspect with team orders in the future. But I disagree it shows a lack of respect. To me it just looks like they are completely focused on winning the title(s) and are doing everything they can do that. I don't really get all the pearl-clutching as Ferrari admitted they would do exactly this before the season even started. They felt that Vettel, with his proven ability, would be a better horse to back than Leclerc, who is still largely untested, and they are canny enough to know that every point counts in the end. The fact that Leclerc has risen to the challenge admirably may make them reconsider that but I don't think it has shown Ferrari in a poor light. If Vettel had pulled away after being let through then doubtless the decision would have looked brave, but it's hardly Ferrari's fault that Vettel didn't meet the expectation after the fact.

I also think Mercedes aren't poster boys for being respectful of their drivers. The way they hung Nico out to dry after Spa 2014 was absolutely awful IMO
well i think the very fact that they came out at the start of the season and backed vettel shows disrespect to leclerc, the sport and its fans. if vettel shows he is better and has managed not to throw away points again and is ahead going in to the final quarter then fair enough back him. but to try and manipulate races from the off (badly) and not give us potential battles like hamilton rosberg, riccardo verstappen etc is just wrong for me. who knows whether, if vettel messes up again, all the points leclerc could lose playing this game could cost them the title.

Zoue
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Zoue »

Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Caserole of Nonsense wrote:just let them race. im sure the drivers have enough respect for each other and the team for it not to turn into perez ocon. i would be pretty confident that they would end up with more team points overall. trying to manipulate results to favour one of what looks like two very evenly matched drivers is never going to work.
My impression is that merc have a lot more respect as team for the way they let their drivers race, then ferrari. does anyone actually like ferrari as a team (not a brand or the drivers)
I suspect given all the furore that Ferrari might be a bit more circumspect with team orders in the future. But I disagree it shows a lack of respect. To me it just looks like they are completely focused on winning the title(s) and are doing everything they can do that. I don't really get all the pearl-clutching as Ferrari admitted they would do exactly this before the season even started. They felt that Vettel, with his proven ability, would be a better horse to back than Leclerc, who is still largely untested, and they are canny enough to know that every point counts in the end. The fact that Leclerc has risen to the challenge admirably may make them reconsider that but I don't think it has shown Ferrari in a poor light. If Vettel had pulled away after being let through then doubtless the decision would have looked brave, but it's hardly Ferrari's fault that Vettel didn't meet the expectation after the fact.

I also think Mercedes aren't poster boys for being respectful of their drivers. The way they hung Nico out to dry after Spa 2014 was absolutely awful IMO
well i think the very fact that they came out at the start of the season and backed vettel shows disrespect to leclerc, the sport and its fans. if vettel shows he is better and has managed not to throw away points again and is ahead going in to the final quarter then fair enough back him. but to try and manipulate races from the off (badly) and not give us potential battles like hamilton rosberg, riccardo verstappen etc is just wrong for me. who knows whether, if vettel messes up again, all the points leclerc could lose playing this game could cost them the title.
Sure it could cost them, but it's all about balance of probabilities and that favours Vettel. It's not really that much different to Mercedes asking Bottas to step aside in Russia last year. The fact that it turned out to be totally unnecessary isn't something they could have predicted and it didn't show disrespect to Bottas, just a pragmatic approach to securing their best hope for the title. Ferrari doing it earlier in the year just means they're planning ahead and we all know that even the smallest amount of points may make a difference, else why bother with the single point for fastest lap?

I quite strongly disagree that Ferrari are showing disrespect to the sport or its fans and in all honesty I don't think they need to or even should be considering the fans when they make these decisions. They're in it to win, not make the fans feel good. Their decision-making is about how to secure the title(s) within the rules, not how to win some sort of popularity contest

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