I think Sette Camara is the favorite, but I - and most people - will be most interested to see if Schumacher can mount a challenge right away. Sette Camara, however, I think has the pace as he showed last year, and with all the better drivers gone his experience and speed should see him through to victory.
Re: 2019 Formula Two season
Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:45 am
by pokerman
I went with Camara as well, he had a lot of bad luck last year finishing a lot lower in the table than he should have, he compared well to his teammate Norris although Norris did have less experience.
His main competition should be de Vries but he's prone to making some bonehead decisions.
Most of us will be routing for Schumacher, he should be able to finish in the top 6, top 3 is also a possibility.
Re: 2019 Formula Two season
Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:42 pm
by Paolo_Lasardi
I think it is a very underwhelming grid. No extraordinary talent there IMO. A very good chance to shine for either a veteran or a rookie. Mick Schumacher chose the best year for his category debut.
Honestly, that’s a quite mediocre tbh. You would think that winning the main feeder series into F1 would produce better results than that.
Not really. Historically most of the best drivers show enough earlier in their career to get put into F1 before they have chance to win the 2nd tier championship.
Add to that the expense of the second tier usually means a lot of the very best drivers are ruled out, although less so now with junior teams.
The series before F3000 yielded no WDC's and grand total of 3 races winners with Montoya being the only multiple race winner. So GP2 actually was a step forward.
Not a single rookie in the top 9. Although Mick supposedly went fastest in S3 but ruined his final quali attempt with a lockup into turn 4.
I saw his lockup - it was huge. I can easily see that having cost him 4-5 tenths on the lap, for a very respectable first effort otherwise.
Re: 2019 Formula Two season
Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:45 am
by mcdo
I voted Sette Camara but now I kinda wish I voted for Hubert. I thought he was very impressive last year. He knows how to win the points game
Re: 2019 Formula Two season
Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 11:22 am
by MistaVega23
Schumi on reverse grid pole for tomorrow, a good end to the race for him. Clean and disciplined.
Latifi was excellent today.
Re: 2019 Formula Two season
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:51 am
by Mort Canard
Good drive in the sprint race today by Ghiotto. Pitted for tires with about 12 to go and charged back up through the field.
Honorable mention to Sette Camara and Latifi for well earned podium positions.
Re: 2019 Formula Two season
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:56 am
by Liket
The heck happened to Hubert in the sprint race? I thought he was conserving tires, then he pitted and went slower than the guys who did conserve tires?
Nice drive by Ghiotto, too bad it's a few years too late for him.
Re: 2019 Formula Two season
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:34 pm
by Jenson's Understeer
For what it's worth, here are the ages and years of experience at this level:
Matsushita: 25/4th full season
King: 25/4th full season
Ghiotto: 24/4th full season
Latifi: 23/4th full season
Galael: 22/4th full season
de Vries: 24/3rd full season
Deletraz: 21/3rd full season
Boschung: 21/3rd full season
Sette Camara: 20/3rd full season
I have to say I thought both Zhou and Alesi were older than 19. It feels like they've been around for years. Sette Camara and Deletraz are both well positioned in terms of having a younger age but entering their third year at this level, so having a decent level of experience.
I can see Latifi winning the title this year and being at Williams next year. I feel like Kubica is going to become increasingly frustrated at Williams and that's going to end in a very acrimonious fashion, opening up a seat. Latifi is already their reserve driver so if he wins the F2 title, it's a logical progression, especially if Williams can get the older Latifi to put some of his considerable wealth into their team. Not sure how that would work given he already owns 10% of the McLaren Group, though...
Re: 2019 Formula Two season
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:26 pm
by pokerman
Jenson's Understeer wrote:For what it's worth, here are the ages and years of experience at this level:
Matsushita: 25/4th full season
King: 25/4th full season
Ghiotto: 24/4th full season
Latifi: 23/4th full season
Galael: 22/4th full season
de Vries: 24/3rd full season
Deletraz: 21/3rd full season
Boschung: 21/3rd full season
Sette Camara: 20/3rd full season
I have to say I thought both Zhou and Alesi were older than 19. It feels like they've been around for years. Sette Camara and Deletraz are both well positioned in terms of having a younger age but entering their third year at this level, so having a decent level of experience.
I can see Latifi winning the title this year and being at Williams next year. I feel like Kubica is going to become increasingly frustrated at Williams and that's going to end in a very acrimonious fashion, opening up a seat. Latifi is already their reserve driver so if he wins the F2 title, it's a logical progression, especially if Williams can get the older Latifi to put some of his considerable wealth into their team. Not sure how that would work given he already owns 10% of the McLaren Group, though...
That kind of shows how all the best drivers have moved on leaving quite a weak line up this year.
Re: 2019 Formula Two season
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:38 pm
by Black_Flag_11
pokerman wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:For what it's worth, here are the ages and years of experience at this level:
Matsushita: 25/4th full season
King: 25/4th full season
Ghiotto: 24/4th full season
Latifi: 23/4th full season
Galael: 22/4th full season
de Vries: 24/3rd full season
Deletraz: 21/3rd full season
Boschung: 21/3rd full season
Sette Camara: 20/3rd full season
I have to say I thought both Zhou and Alesi were older than 19. It feels like they've been around for years. Sette Camara and Deletraz are both well positioned in terms of having a younger age but entering their third year at this level, so having a decent level of experience.
I can see Latifi winning the title this year and being at Williams next year. I feel like Kubica is going to become increasingly frustrated at Williams and that's going to end in a very acrimonious fashion, opening up a seat. Latifi is already their reserve driver so if he wins the F2 title, it's a logical progression, especially if Williams can get the older Latifi to put some of his considerable wealth into their team. Not sure how that would work given he already owns 10% of the McLaren Group, though...
That kind of shows how all the best drivers have moved on leaving quite a weak line up this year.
It will be interesting to see how the rookies shape up because as you say the drivers that have been there a few years aren't standout talents.
Got a good feeling about Hubert and of course like everyone else I find myself looking at Schumacher first when I glance up at the gaps, would love to see him do well.
Re: 2019 Formula Two season
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:41 pm
by pokerman
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:For what it's worth, here are the ages and years of experience at this level:
Matsushita: 25/4th full season
King: 25/4th full season
Ghiotto: 24/4th full season
Latifi: 23/4th full season
Galael: 22/4th full season
de Vries: 24/3rd full season
Deletraz: 21/3rd full season
Boschung: 21/3rd full season
Sette Camara: 20/3rd full season
I have to say I thought both Zhou and Alesi were older than 19. It feels like they've been around for years. Sette Camara and Deletraz are both well positioned in terms of having a younger age but entering their third year at this level, so having a decent level of experience.
I can see Latifi winning the title this year and being at Williams next year. I feel like Kubica is going to become increasingly frustrated at Williams and that's going to end in a very acrimonious fashion, opening up a seat. Latifi is already their reserve driver so if he wins the F2 title, it's a logical progression, especially if Williams can get the older Latifi to put some of his considerable wealth into their team. Not sure how that would work given he already owns 10% of the McLaren Group, though...
That kind of shows how all the best drivers have moved on leaving quite a weak line up this year.
It will be interesting to see how the rookies shape up because as you say the drivers that have been there a few years aren't standout talents.
Got a good feeling about Hubert and of course like everyone else I find myself looking at Schumacher first when I glance up at the gaps, would love to see him do well.
Both you and the race director.
Re: 2019 Formula Two season
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:43 pm
by Exediron
Jenson's Understeer wrote:Zhou: 19/rookie
This sort of confirms my feeling that Zhou has been the most impressive so far. As a 19-year old rookie, he seems like the only one who might have an F1 future. Harsh, I know, but it's how I see it.
Re: 2019 Formula Two season
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:56 pm
by KingVoid
Exediron wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:Zhou: 19/rookie
This sort of confirms my feeling that Zhou has been the most impressive so far. As a 19-year old rookie, he seems like the only one who might have an F1 future. Harsh, I know, but it's how I see it.
Zhou and Schumacher are only 2 months apart in age.
Re: 2019 Formula Two season
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:59 pm
by Black_Flag_11
pokerman wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:For what it's worth, here are the ages and years of experience at this level:
Matsushita: 25/4th full season
King: 25/4th full season
Ghiotto: 24/4th full season
Latifi: 23/4th full season
Galael: 22/4th full season
de Vries: 24/3rd full season
Deletraz: 21/3rd full season
Boschung: 21/3rd full season
Sette Camara: 20/3rd full season
I have to say I thought both Zhou and Alesi were older than 19. It feels like they've been around for years. Sette Camara and Deletraz are both well positioned in terms of having a younger age but entering their third year at this level, so having a decent level of experience.
I can see Latifi winning the title this year and being at Williams next year. I feel like Kubica is going to become increasingly frustrated at Williams and that's going to end in a very acrimonious fashion, opening up a seat. Latifi is already their reserve driver so if he wins the F2 title, it's a logical progression, especially if Williams can get the older Latifi to put some of his considerable wealth into their team. Not sure how that would work given he already owns 10% of the McLaren Group, though...
That kind of shows how all the best drivers have moved on leaving quite a weak line up this year.
It will be interesting to see how the rookies shape up because as you say the drivers that have been there a few years aren't standout talents.
Got a good feeling about Hubert and of course like everyone else I find myself looking at Schumacher first when I glance up at the gaps, would love to see him do well.
Both you and the race director.
yeah he certainly got a lot of attention given the relatively average weekend, but I think that's probably to be expected given his surname. I imagine the worst of it will be in the first couple of races unless he starts fighting for podiums/wins.
Re: 2019 Formula Two season
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:11 pm
by Paolo_Lasardi
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:For what it's worth, here are the ages and years of experience at this level:
Matsushita: 25/4th full season
King: 25/4th full season
Ghiotto: 24/4th full season
Latifi: 23/4th full season
Galael: 22/4th full season
de Vries: 24/3rd full season
Deletraz: 21/3rd full season
Boschung: 21/3rd full season
Sette Camara: 20/3rd full season
I have to say I thought both Zhou and Alesi were older than 19. It feels like they've been around for years. Sette Camara and Deletraz are both well positioned in terms of having a younger age but entering their third year at this level, so having a decent level of experience.
I can see Latifi winning the title this year and being at Williams next year. I feel like Kubica is going to become increasingly frustrated at Williams and that's going to end in a very acrimonious fashion, opening up a seat. Latifi is already their reserve driver so if he wins the F2 title, it's a logical progression, especially if Williams can get the older Latifi to put some of his considerable wealth into their team. Not sure how that would work given he already owns 10% of the McLaren Group, though...
That kind of shows how all the best drivers have moved on leaving quite a weak line up this year.
It will be interesting to see how the rookies shape up because as you say the drivers that have been there a few years aren't standout talents.
Got a good feeling about Hubert and of course like everyone else I find myself looking at Schumacher first when I glance up at the gaps, would love to see him do well.
Well, I fear there are no standout talents among the rookies as well ...
Re: 2019 Formula Two season
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:31 pm
by Exediron
KingVoid wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:Zhou: 19/rookie
This sort of confirms my feeling that Zhou has been the most impressive so far. As a 19-year old rookie, he seems like the only one who might have an F1 future. Harsh, I know, but it's how I see it.
Zhou and Schumacher are only 2 months apart in age.
True. And Zhou looks at least as good as Schumacher so far. Aside from the anomalous run of form Mick went on to end his F3 season, he has never looked like a special driver capable of reaching F1. Until/unless he can recreate that form in F2, I don't see him as being an F1-level prospect.
Re: 2019 Formula Two season
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:29 pm
by pokerman
Exediron wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:Zhou: 19/rookie
This sort of confirms my feeling that Zhou has been the most impressive so far. As a 19-year old rookie, he seems like the only one who might have an F1 future. Harsh, I know, but it's how I see it.
Zhou and Schumacher are only 2 months apart in age.
True. And Zhou looks at least as good as Schumacher so far. Aside from the anomalous run of form Mick went on to end his F3 season, he has never looked like a special driver capable of reaching F1. Until/unless he can recreate that form in F2, I don't see him as being an F1-level prospect.
Schumacher always needs 2 years to find his feet, for Schumacher that was actually a good start scoring points in both races.
In respect to F1 he will do well enough to make it but special drivers don't keep taking an age to find their feet, people talk about him being a future Ferrari driver I just don't see it from what I've seen thus far.
Re: 2019 Formula Two season
Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:47 am
by DOLOMITE
I don't see much to he excited about in F2 in terms of drivers. The ones raising to the top this year really only seem to be doing so because of last year's talent having cleared off. Hubert maybe, too early to say. But the drivers doing 4 years...surely their talent would have shone through by now.
Re: 2019 Formula Two season
Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:58 pm
by pokerman
DOLOMITE wrote:I don't see much to he excited about in F2 in terms of drivers. The ones raising to the top this year really only seem to be doing so because of last year's talent having cleared off. Hubert maybe, too early to say. But the drivers doing 4 years...surely their talent would have shone through by now.
Indeed they merely become the gate keepers to judge the new drivers coming through.
Re: 2019 Formula Two season
Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:27 pm
by DOLOMITE
pokerman wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:I don't see much to he excited about in F2 in terms of drivers. The ones raising to the top this year really only seem to be doing so because of last year's talent having cleared off. Hubert maybe, too early to say. But the drivers doing 4 years...surely their talent would have shone through by now.
Indeed they merely become the gate keepers to judge the new drivers coming through.
Well put. So if Schunior (I'm going to trademark that) or Hubert come in and start matching and occasionally beating the experienced guys, it will be him that gets the nod to progress up the chain because they've shown more potential. Even if they finish behind the like of de Vries and Camara.
Just like when Raikkonen got the McLaren gig ahead of Heidfeld - he didn't outperform him but the fact he was so close off the bat suggested he had more potential.
Re: 2019 Formula Two season
Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:05 pm
by sandman1347
mikeyg123 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:A list of F2/GP2 Champions since 2005:
Honestly, that’s a quite mediocre tbh. You would think that winning the main feeder series into F1 would produce better results than that.
Not really. Historically most of the best drivers show enough earlier in their career to get put into F1 before they have chance to win the 2nd tier championship.
Add to that the expense of the second tier usually means a lot of the very best drivers are ruled out, although less so now with junior teams.
The series before F3000 yielded no WDC's and grand total of 3 races winners with Montoya being the only multiple race winner. So GP2 actually was a step forward.
I think a little more information here could add some context. Back in the day, drivers generally remained in karting until they were 18 or so. In fact, if you go back to the 70s and 80s, it was common for drivers to drive karts until 20. Nowadays they tend to get into cars by 16. That's what has led to more drivers doing the GP2/F2/F3000 level today than say 20-30 years ago. Michael Schumacher, for example, never raced at that 2nd tier level but he also didn't make his F1 debut until the age of 22. The big difference in his career was that he was 19 when he first raced cars. By comparison; his son started in cars at 16 and is now moving into F2 at 20. He will likely make it to F1 at about the same age as his father but will go through one more tier of competition to get there.
For most of the 70s and 80s, Formula 3 was basically the final step before F1. Guys like Senna, Prost and Piquet all won titles in Formula 3 right before starting their F1 careers. Formula 2 back in the 50s and 60s was almost seen as an alternative to F1. You even had F1 drivers competing in F2 races back then.
Re: 2019 Formula Two season
Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 11:46 am
by Black_Flag_11
Raghunathan should have been sent out on his own before everyone else. A driver multiple seconds off everyone else even at his fastest was obviously going to be a pain (and frankly dangerous) around Monaco.
If I was Aitken I would be absolutely steaming right now. Having my qualifying ruined by a driver who is simply not competent enough to race these cars at all.
Re: 2019 Formula Two season
Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 12:25 pm
by pokerman
Black_Flag_11 wrote:Raghunathan should have been sent out on his own before everyone else. A driver multiple seconds off everyone else even at his fastest was obviously going to be a pain (and frankly dangerous) around Monaco.
If I was Aitken I would be absolutely steaming right now. Having my qualifying ruined by a driver who is simply not competent enough to race these cars at all.
Yeah I was going to post something similar, surely at this level of competition drivers should have reached a certain standard in lower formulas before being allowed to compete, you shouldn't just be able to buy yourself a seat, I'm kind of looking at Calderon as well.
Re: 2019 Formula Two season
Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 12:36 pm
by DOLOMITE
F2 is bit underwhelming this year imo. Seems with Russel,Norris and Albon out, its' cleared the way for the best of the rest, but that's not very satisfying. I think Hubert is looking good, and Schunior has his moments but overall it's a bit flat as a Championship.
Re: 2019 Formula Two season
Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 1:13 pm
by mcdo
pokerman wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:Raghunathan should have been sent out on his own before everyone else. A driver multiple seconds off everyone else even at his fastest was obviously going to be a pain (and frankly dangerous) around Monaco.
If I was Aitken I would be absolutely steaming right now. Having my qualifying ruined by a driver who is simply not competent enough to race these cars at all.
Yeah I was going to post something similar, surely at this level of competition drivers should have reached a certain standard in lower formulas before being allowed to compete, you shouldn't just be able to buy yourself a seat, I'm kind of looking at Calderon as well.
Ideally a graduating points system should apply to F2 as well. You must score x amount of licence points in F3 or equivalent to be granted your F2 licence, etc. As long as there's no performance barrier for entry, the old pay driver problem in F1 is just moving down a level to F2
Re: 2019 Formula Two season
Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 1:28 pm
by sandman1347
DOLOMITE wrote:F2 is bit underwhelming this year imo. Seems with Russel,Norris and Albon out, its' cleared the way for the best of the rest, but that's not very satisfying. I think Hubert is looking good, and Schunior has his moments but overall it's a bit flat as a Championship.
Yeah the well seems to have dried up a bit in terms of hot prospects. With so many talented young drivers in the field in F1 now, I suppose that's to be expected. We have Max, Charles, Alex, Lando, George, Lance and Esteban all in the last few years. All of those guys are under the age of 23. So there is a lot of young talent out there on the grid but the cupboard is empty now in the junior categories. I'd give Mick until his second season in F2 to judge him. He generally takes a year to acclimate himself to a series and then becomes truly competitive in his second year.
Re: 2019 Formula Two season
Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 11:01 am
by Black_Flag_11
The F2 commentary on Sky is about a second behind the picture and it's absolutely infuriating. It's been happening for a couple of years now too.
Re: 2019 Formula Two season
Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 12:20 pm
by Yellowbin74
sandman1347 wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:F2 is bit underwhelming this year imo. Seems with Russel,Norris and Albon out, its' cleared the way for the best of the rest, but that's not very satisfying. I think Hubert is looking good, and Schunior has his moments but overall it's a bit flat as a Championship.
Yeah the well seems to have dried up a bit in terms of hot prospects. With so many talented young drivers in the field in F1 now, I suppose that's to be expected. We have Max, Charles, Alex, Lando, George, Lance and Esteban all in the last few years. All of those guys are under the age of 23. So there is a lot of young talent out there on the grid but the cupboard is empty now in the junior categories. I'd give Mick until his second season in F2 to judge him. He generally takes a year to acclimate himself to a series and then becomes truly competitive in his second year.
This year reminds me very much of the year Palmer won the title. Nobody really shines through as a genuine "can't wait to see him in F1" driver.
Mick is slowly getting up to speed but with some mistakes along the way.
Latifi will probably take the title with consistency.
Re: 2019 Formula Two season
Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:33 pm
by Paolo_Lasardi
Ragunathan scored a point today - which speaks volumes about how weak this year's F2 is.
