Indycar - COTA (Anyone else giving it a watch?)

Flash2k11 · Post by **Flash2k11** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:31 pm

Having finally caved in the face of Sky and paid the extra tenner a month they wanted for the F1 channel, thought i'd make the best use of it and actually watch the Indycar offering this year. I've been keeping up with the series for the last year or 2 (mainly through RACER and I absolutely love Miller's Mailbag) but this will be the first time this millenium i've sat down and watched a race that wasnt the 500.

Hoping for big things, lots of sideways in Qualy.

Any other watchers?

Flash2k11 · Post by **Flash2k11** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:46 pm

Not sure im entirely on board with them declaring there are no track limits.....

Zoue · Post by **Zoue** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:47 pm

Just watching now - from the onboards they are really having to wrestle those cars

Flash2k11 · Post by **Flash2k11** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:48 pm

Zoue wrote:Just watching now - from the onboards they are really having to wrestle those cars

Some savage snap oversteer, certainly looks a real handful.

Zoue · Post by **Zoue** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:56 pm

Flash2k11 wrote:
Zoue wrote:Just watching now - from the onboards they are really having to wrestle those cars
Some savage snap oversteer, certainly looks a real handful.

they're sawing at the wheel like their lives depend on it. Certainly very different from watching the minimal steering input we're used to seeing in F1

ShaneM · Post by **ShaneM** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:01 pm

Anyone have a side by side comparison of qualy times F1 vs Indy car?

Flash2k11 · Post by **Flash2k11** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:05 pm

ShaneM wrote:Anyone have a side by side comparison of qualy times F1 vs Indy car?

No side by side but IIRC the qualy difference was about 8 seconds.

Edit: Make that about 14 now i've actually checked.

Zoue · Post by **Zoue** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:07 pm

Flash2k11 wrote:
ShaneM wrote:Anyone have a side by side comparison of qualy times F1 vs Indy car?
No side by side but IIRC the qualy difference was about 8 seconds.

more like 13s!

Flash2k11 · Post by **Flash2k11** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:09 pm

Zoue wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
ShaneM wrote:Anyone have a side by side comparison of qualy times F1 vs Indy car?
No side by side but IIRC the qualy difference was about 8 seconds.
more like 13s!

Did edit but you beat me to it

lol

Flash2k11 · Post by **Flash2k11** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:12 pm

O'Ward looks the bollocks

Zoue · Post by **Zoue** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:19 pm

Flash2k11 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
ShaneM wrote:Anyone have a side by side comparison of qualy times F1 vs Indy car?
No side by side but IIRC the qualy difference was about 8 seconds.
more like 13s!
Did edit but you beat me to it lol

Flash2k11 · Post by **Flash2k11** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:33 pm

I think I like the pitstops, it's proper madness.

Flash2k11 · Post by **Flash2k11** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:16 pm

Gutted for Power, awful way to go. This kinda reminds me of the 90s in F1, every pitstop was a major hazard.

Lt. Drebin · Post by **Lt. Drebin** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:34 pm

Track limits interpretation in Indycar is interesting.

Flash2k11 · Post by **Flash2k11** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:35 pm

Lt. Drebin wrote:Track limits interpretation in Indycar is interesting.

Interesting is an 'interesting' interpretation

They told them pre-race there were no track limits, hence what looks ridiculous.

Flash2k11 · Post by **Flash2k11** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:49 pm

Grats to Herta, glad to watch a record being set

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:50 pm

Zoue wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
ShaneM wrote:Anyone have a side by side comparison of qualy times F1 vs Indy car?
No side by side but IIRC the qualy difference was about 8 seconds.
more like 13s!

I mentioned this in another thread that they are basically no quicker than a F2 car.

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:52 pm

Flash2k11 wrote:Not sure im entirely on board with them declaring there are no track limits.....

Posted this in the F1 is boring thread.

So critiquing the Indycar race, it was a good race until the late safety car lottery that shuffled up the field and produced a result to a race basically different to the race I was watching for the first 90 minutes, like Will Power said the SC pit lane rules is bs.

Also strange that there were no track limit rules, an attempt perhaps to have the Indycars as close to performance as possible to the F1 cars on a track were F1 cars race?

Anyway it was quite ridiculous and even more ridiculous to see two cars coming together with each other whilst they were both off the track, one car it seems trying to avoid a strip of grass as he rejoined the track and the other car didn't leave him enough room to do so, so one car crashes bringing out the late safety car, so one ridiculous rule begets another one and the two long time leaders finish nowhere.

At least the winner Herta was near the front throughout the race, at 18 the youngest winner in Indycar history, maybe a future F1 driver?

Exediron · Post by **Exediron** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:50 pm

Also from that thread...

pokerman wrote:Also strange that there were no track limit rules, an attempt perhaps to have the Indycars as close to performance as possible to the F1 cars on a track were F1 cars race?

I think it's just normal IndyCar thinking. Their default is that track limits are determined purely by what penalizes you naturally - most IndyCar tracks have grass right off the side of the track, or brick walls where there isn't grass. It's the clash between an F1 track that doesn't penalize cars for running off and the IndyCar idea that tracks should be self-penalizing.

Since they were 14 seconds off the pace, I doubt IndyCar cared about recovering 5 tenths or whatever that corner interpretation was worth.

pokerman wrote:At least the winner Herta was near the front throughout the race, at 18 the youngest winner in Indycar history, maybe a future F1 driver?

I've liked what I've seen from him so far. I had the impression from last year that O'Warde was better, but Herta still has room to grow and is looking very comfortable near the front in a non-favored car. Hopefully once O'Warde gets up to speed they'll both be fighting at the front.

Unlike Ferucci, who I wish the commentators would stop focusing on. He's a talentless racist who shouldn't be on the grid.

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:21 am

Exediron wrote:Also from that thread...

pokerman wrote:Also strange that there were no track limit rules, an attempt perhaps to have the Indycars as close to performance as possible to the F1 cars on a track were F1 cars race?
I think it's just normal IndyCar thinking. Their default is that track limits are determined purely by what penalizes you naturally - most IndyCar tracks have grass right off the side of the track, or brick walls where there isn't grass. It's the clash between an F1 track that doesn't penalize cars for running off and the IndyCar idea that tracks should be self-penalizing.

Since they were 14 seconds off the pace, I doubt IndyCar cared about recovering 5 tenths or whatever that corner interpretation was worth.

pokerman wrote:At least the winner Herta was near the front throughout the race, at 18 the youngest winner in Indycar history, maybe a future F1 driver?
I've liked what I've seen from him so far. I had the impression from last year that O'Warde was better, but Herta still has room to grow and is looking very comfortable near the front in a non-favored car. Hopefully once O'Warde gets up to speed they'll both be fighting at the front.

Unlike Ferucci, who I wish the commentators would stop focusing on. He's a talentless racist who shouldn't be on the grid.

I've read since that cars were having problems with the exit kerb so they just let them run wide onto the run off.

I guess Indycars have a different perspective to safety than F1, the run offs are there to help a car recover from a mistake.

jimmyj · Post by **jimmyj** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:05 am

My friends and I were there and it was quite exciting to see. I agree the late caution cheated Power and Rossi, but Herta drove like a star and it was great to see him win. The track limits thing was a bit shocking but in reality I don't think it made any difference because they were all treated the same.
There are a lot of up and coming newbies with great talent so this should be a great IndyCar season for us to watch.

2fast · Post by **2fast** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:54 am

the seating looked half full only.

but overall, it was great to watch (at least compare to the previous F1 race in Melbourne).

jimmyj · Post by **jimmyj** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:08 pm

Half full would be optimistic.

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:29 pm

jimmyj wrote:My friends and I were there and it was quite exciting to see. I agree the late caution cheated Power and Rossi, but Herta drove like a star and it was great to see him win. The track limits thing was a bit shocking but in reality I don't think it made any difference because they were all treated the same.
There are a lot of up and coming newbies with great talent so this should be a great IndyCar season for us to watch.

I would put it out there that if the cars had not been racing off the track then the crash would not have happened?

jimmyj · Post by **jimmyj** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:46 pm

pokerman wrote:
jimmyj wrote:My friends and I were there and it was quite exciting to see. I agree the late caution cheated Power and Rossi, but Herta drove like a star and it was great to see him win. The track limits thing was a bit shocking but in reality I don't think it made any difference because they were all treated the same.
There are a lot of up and coming newbies with great talent so this should be a great IndyCar season for us to watch.
I would put it out there that if the cars had not been racing off the track then the crash would not have happened?

I hadn't thought of that. You are probably right. We were sitting beside that corner and to stay on track tjey would have to approach it quite differently.

Placid · Post by **Placid** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:11 pm

pokerman wrote:At least the winner Herta was near the front throughout the race, at 18 the youngest winner in Indycar history, maybe a future F1 driver?

That is twice that Haas F1 missed out on home-grown US talent. 1st is Rossi. Now Colton. What would have been if Gene and Gunther signed Herta as a development driver.

On the other hand: Yankee dollars talked 1st.

Although Colton became the youngest winner in Indy Car, still: He is the 2nd youngest to win in open-wheel sport. Max Verstappen's record for youngest driver will never be broken.

pc27b · Post by **pc27b** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:50 pm

pokerman wrote:
jimmyj wrote:My friends and I were there and it was quite exciting to see. I agree the late caution cheated Power and Rossi, but Herta drove like a star and it was great to see him win. The track limits thing was a bit shocking but in reality I don't think it made any difference because they were all treated the same.
There are a lot of up and coming newbies with great talent so this should be a great IndyCar season for us to watch.
I would put it out there that if the cars had not been racing off the track then the crash would not have happened?

i wonder if going off track had anything to do with breaking powers car ?

interesting to watch the drivers working the wheel so much more than f1.

some good young talent in indy car, bodes well for them. haas can buyout one of them if he really wants too

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:15 pm

Placid wrote:
pokerman wrote:At least the winner Herta was near the front throughout the race, at 18 the youngest winner in Indycar history, maybe a future F1 driver?
That is twice that Haas F1 missed out on home-grown US talent. 1st is Rossi. Now Colton. What would have been if Gene and Gunther signed Herta as a development driver.

On the other hand: Yankee dollars talked 1st.

Although Colton became the youngest winner in Indy Car, still: He is the 2nd youngest to win in open-wheel sport. Max Verstappen's record for youngest driver will never be broken.

With him being only 18 I don't see the rush to get him into F1, 2 or 3 years in Indycar will only do him good.

However Rossi should be in F1, maybe if he wins the title this year there might be a push to place him in F1, I'm sure Haas can drop either Grosjean or KMag in particular if they both misfire against this year?

MB-BOB · Post by **MB-BOB** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:14 pm

I watched about 15 minutes of this, then changed channels. The only interesting (humorous) part was the cars running 10 car lengths wide exiting turn 19. Nonsensical...

Indycars are so SLOW at COTA. I thought maybe 6 seconds slower than F1. Then I found this side-by-side comparison and was shocked...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ft3Ug_YthM

Spoiler alert: It's almost 20 seconds.

kleefton · Post by **kleefton** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:37 pm

MB-BOB wrote:I watched about 15 minutes of this, then changed channels. The only interesting (humorous) part was the cars running 10 car lengths wide exiting turn 19. Nonsensical...

Indycars are so SLOW at COTA. I thought maybe 6 seconds slower than F1. Then I found this side-by-side comparison and was shocked...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ft3Ug_YthM

Spoiler alert: It's almost 20 seconds.

Yea i also thought tyey would be closer. But the actual gap between last years f1 pole and indy’s pole was 14 sec. Still quite sad actually.

Exediron · Post by **Exediron** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:57 pm

pokerman wrote:However Rossi should be in F1, maybe if he wins the title this year there might be a push to place him in F1, I'm sure Haas can drop either Grosjean or KMag in particular if they both misfire against this year?

Rossi and Herta would be an infinitely more exciting lineup than Grosjean and KMag, but I think it would be difficult to attract Rossi to a midfield team now that he's an established top IndyCar driver. If a budget cap of some sort gets implemented in the future that might be a different story.

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:02 pm

Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:However Rossi should be in F1, maybe if he wins the title this year there might be a push to place him in F1, I'm sure Haas can drop either Grosjean or KMag in particular if they both misfire against this year?
Rossi and Herta would be an infinitely more exciting lineup than Grosjean and KMag, but I think it would be difficult to attract Rossi to a midfield team now that he's an established top IndyCar driver. If a budget cap of some sort gets implemented in the future that might be a different story.

F1 drivers get paid more money.

Blake · Post by **Blake** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:09 pm

kleefton wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:I watched about 15 minutes of this, then changed channels. The only interesting (humorous) part was the cars running 10 car lengths wide exiting turn 19. Nonsensical...

Indycars are so SLOW at COTA. I thought maybe 6 seconds slower than F1. Then I found this side-by-side comparison and was shocked...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ft3Ug_YthM

Spoiler alert: It's almost 20 seconds.
Yea i also thought tyey would be closer. But the actual gap between last years f1 pole and indy’s pole was 14 sec. Still quite sad actually.

It should be remembered that Indy cars use a spec chassis, weigh slightly more than F1 cars, have anywhere from 100 to 200+ less horsepower, and cost a considerable fraction of the cost of F1 cars. They also run Speedway E85 street fuel, not racing fuel. So why would you expect their times over a road course to be close?

In exchange, you generally have close racing and more cars capable of winning races...as well as the lower cost to field a team. Indy Car is not F1 nor does it claim to be. Two different approaches to open wheel racing, and, yes...there is room for both.

Exediron · Post by **Exediron** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:55 pm

I'm always baffled by people who don't seem to understand that F1 and IndyCar have gone in fundamentally different directions in the last decade. F1 is still about building the fastest, most sophisticated cars on the planet - as it should be. IndyCar, however, is now about building merely the best open-wheeled race cars, with little regard that they be the fastest. They're still the fastest in America, but there is no intention of the part of IndyCar to position their cars as a challenge to the speed of an F1 car.

I don't know why it would be 'sad' for an IndyCar to be much slower. It's not intended to be anything else. IndyCar is supposed to be accessible, high level open-wheeled motorsport. There's no way they could have cars of the same speed and sophistication as F1 and keep to that premise.

Blake wrote:It should be remembered that Indy cars use a spec chassis, weigh slightly more than F1 cars, have anywhere from 100 to 200+ less horsepower, and cost a considerable fraction of the cost of F1 cars. They also run Speedway E85 street fuel, not racing fuel. So why would you expect their times over a road course to be close?

While I basically agree with you, modern F1 cars don't have much if any of a fuel advantage. The fuel is heavily restricted, with 99% required to be identical to road fuel. That extra 1% is worth something I'm sure, but since alcohol is banned from F1 fuel I actually suspect IndyCar fuel is as powerful or more.

Oil and other lubricants, however, are probably another question entirely.

jimmyj · Post by **jimmyj** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:28 pm

I get that this is primarily an F1 fan forum, but Indy and F1 are different. So why not enjoy them both?

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:36 pm

jimmyj wrote:I get that this is primarily an F1 fan forum, but Indy and F1 are different. So why not enjoy them both?

Well this is actually running alongside the F1 is boring thread, comparing F1 with Indycar.

Blake · Post by **Blake** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:36 pm

jimmyj wrote:I get that this is primarily an F1 fan forum, but Indy and F1 are different. So why not enjoy them both?

Unfortunately that is usually not the way it works in here.

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:50 pm

Blake wrote:
jimmyj wrote:I get that this is primarily an F1 fan forum, but Indy and F1 are different. So why not enjoy them both?

Unfortunately that is usually nit the way it works in here.

Not he same angst for the F1 is boring thread though when comparing F1 with Indycar?

Blake · Post by **Blake** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:57 pm

pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
jimmyj wrote:I get that this is primarily an F1 fan forum, but Indy and F1 are different. So why not enjoy them both?

Unfortunately that is usually nit the way it works in here.
Not he same angst for the F1 is boring thread though when comparing F1 with Indycar?

Pokerman, you sure are predictable. While you may feel an obligation to voice your thoughts on every thread (certainly your right) I don't. However, for what it is worth, I often find Indy Car racing less "boring" than F1. Please, this time, note the use of the word "often" in my declaration as a caveat.

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:08 am

Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
jimmyj wrote:I get that this is primarily an F1 fan forum, but Indy and F1 are different. So why not enjoy them both?

Unfortunately that is usually nit the way it works in here.
Not he same angst for the F1 is boring thread though when comparing F1 with Indycar?
Pokerman, you sure are predictable. While you may feel an obligation to voice your thoughts on every thread (certainly your right) I don't. However, for what it is worth, I often find Indy Car racing less "boring" than F1. Please, this time, note the use of the word "often" in my declaration as a caveat.

Fair enough and that's why you didn't feel the need to post in the thread but it does feel like one can be critiqued but the other can't?