Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weekend?

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thermal
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Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weekend?

Post by thermal »

I don't know if black armbands worn by the drivers or something else might be appropriate. It would seem extremely tone deaf if there was a full blown party at the Australian F1 race considering the tragedy in New Zealand today.

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Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by Asphalt_World »

A small New Zealand flag on each car would be a nice touch in my opinion.
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Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by Exediron »

Yes, I think they should. A major tragedy anywhere in the same weekend should be acknowledged, and even more so when it's practically next door.
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Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by sandman1347 »

A moment of silence before the race would be appropriate

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Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by Covalent »

I think Charlie is who they'll pay their respects to.

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Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by j man »

Covalent wrote:I think Charlie is who they'll pay their respects to.
:thumbup:

Even without the terrible events in New Zealand, there was never going to be much of a celebratory mood around the paddock this weekend.

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Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by Remmirath »

I think it would be appropriate. Typically when something like this has happened on a race weekend there's a moment of silence before the race or teams acknowledging the tragedy in some way, so I don't see any reason to think this'll be different.
Covalent wrote:I think Charlie is who they'll pay their respects to.
I expect they'll do both.
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Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by Jezza13 »

Remmirath wrote:I think it would be appropriate. Typically when something like this has happened on a race weekend there's a moment of silence before the race or teams acknowledging the tragedy in some way, so I don't see any reason to think this'll be different.
Covalent wrote:I think Charlie is who they'll pay their respects to.
I expect they'll do both.

Yeah I expect this what'll happen.

They'll acknowledge whats happened, maybe incooperate a minutes silence in with one for Whiting, a few drivers might say something but, in the end, "The show must roll on".

While horrible, the loss of Charlie Whiting would, i'd expect, have a bigger impact on the sport this weekend than the events in NZ, especially considering the sudden circumstances in which he died.

The V8 series, which as quite a few NZ drivers in it, carried on, slightly more subdued, with just a few words about it during interviews.
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Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by jimmyj »

I would like to see F1 adopt a policy endorsing peace and tolerance in general, including perhaps a symbol on the cars etc. Frankly I'd like to see it as a world wide movement.
To me that makes more sense than one off responses to tragedies or disasters. The tough part of this sort of thing, is once they do it for tragedy so and so, how do they not for the next one, or how do they qualify what particular event is material enough to warrant a response. I am not a cold hearted person, and have nothing but compassion for the victims of crimes such as these recent NZ murders, but terrible stuff happens all the time in the world and I think a broad ideological stand and movement is more appropriate than trying to pick and choose which things to memorialize. Certainly there would be no harm in them doing so Sunday, and I would be supportive and respectful.

I do absolutely support a moment for Charlie though, as it is relevant and related to F1 specifically.

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Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by Jezza13 »

V8 Supercars have done this kind of thing with the Silver Fern this weekend. Wouldn't be surprised to see F1 do the same.

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Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by dpastern »

I hope they do, but somehow, I doubt it.

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Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by Jenson's Understeer »

I would've expected them to have a minute's silence for Charlie even before the tragedy in New Zealand, but I would be very surprised if they now didn't also acknowledge that as part of the minute's silence. There is no reason not to.
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Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by mikeyg123 »

I hope not but there probably will be.

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Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by Mort Canard »

Yes, it would be appropriate to have some sort of recognition. If Lewis wins I would expect that he will say something.
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Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by JN23 »

mikeyg123 wrote:I hope not but there probably will be.
Out of interest, why is that?

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Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by Tassadar »

I do hope so. I see there has been some mini tributes to Charlie already. A moment of silence before the race would be nice for the victims of the horrible attacks.

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Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by mikeyg123 »

JN23 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:I hope not but there probably will be.
Out of interest, why is that?
Because very sadly attacks like this are not that rare globally - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... March_2019

If you memorialise this one you have to memorialise all of them. Otherwise you open your self up to criticism where the sport will get labled hypocritical and best and racist at worse.

Ridiculous criticisms like this - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47605542

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Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by Siao7 »

mikeyg123 wrote:
JN23 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:I hope not but there probably will be.
Out of interest, why is that?
Because very sadly attacks like this are not that rare globally - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... March_2019

If you memorialise this one you have to memorialise all of them. Otherwise you open your self up to criticism where the sport will get labled hypocritical and best and racist at worse.

Ridiculous criticisms like this - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47605542
Absolutely agreed.

I'd like F1 to stay out of politics or current affairs (as much as possible obviously). We've had it before, people trying to use F1 for any reasons, from the Turkish GP podium fiasco to the Bahrain protests.

It's a sport, let it be a sport.

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Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by kowen1208 »

mikeyg123 wrote:
JN23 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:I hope not but there probably will be.
Out of interest, why is that?
Because very sadly attacks like this are not that rare globally - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... March_2019

If you memorialise this one you have to memorialise all of them. Otherwise you open your self up to criticism where the sport will get labled hypocritical and best and racist at worse.

Ridiculous criticisms like this - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47605542
I agree, as well. I hate it when sports get political. It's hard to draw the line of what to cover and what not to cover, and I think it's best to stay within your own sport and not worry about world events.

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Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by Exediron »

mikeyg123 wrote:Because very sadly attacks like this are not that rare globally - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... March_2019

If you memorialise this one you have to memorialise all of them. Otherwise you open your self up to criticism where the sport will get labled hypocritical and best and racist at worse.

Ridiculous criticisms like this - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47605542
I think this one is a little different, in that it was so close in both time and location to the Grand Prix. If a major attack happens in the same geographic region literally while the Grand Prix weekend is going on, to me that's different from simply observing the shooting of the week (which, here in America, is a real thing).
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Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

Siao7 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
JN23 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:I hope not but there probably will be.
Out of interest, why is that?
Because very sadly attacks like this are not that rare globally - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... March_2019

If you memorialise this one you have to memorialise all of them. Otherwise you open your self up to criticism where the sport will get labled hypocritical and best and racist at worse.

Ridiculous criticisms like this - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47605542
Absolutely agreed.

I'd like F1 to stay out of politics or current affairs (as much as possible obviously). We've had it before, people trying to use F1 for any reasons, from the Turkish GP podium fiasco to the Bahrain protests.

It's a sport, let it be a sport.
It's not about sports staying out of politics so much so as it's people have grown stupider over time and the tree hugging social police are always on the beat, just L@@KING for the most insignificant of things to harp on and get as many other nutjobs on their lynch mob bandwagon!!!

What's worse are companies giving into these cyber bullies and adhering to their wishes and even backing some of the idiocy, and you end up with people losing their jobs over literally nothing. Sadly CEO's and lead organizations are now comprised of some of these powder puffs and they appease these nitwits, giving them power when they literally should have none.
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Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by Exediron »

F1 MERCENARY wrote:It's not about sports staying out of politics so much so as it's people have grown stupider over time and the tree hugging social police are always on the beat, just L@@KING for the most insignificant of things to harp on and get as many other nutjobs on their lynch mob bandwagon!!!

What's worse are companies giving into these cyber bullies and adhering to their wishes and even backing some of the idiocy, and you end up with people losing their jobs over literally nothing. Sadly CEO's and lead organizations are now comprised of some of these powder puffs and they appease these nitwits, giving them power when they literally should have none.
See, this is why it's best to stay out of politics. If you'd never posted this, my respect for you would never have gone through the floor, and the forum would be just that little bit more friendly as a result.
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Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by mikeyg123 »

Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Because very sadly attacks like this are not that rare globally - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... March_2019

If you memorialise this one you have to memorialise all of them. Otherwise you open your self up to criticism where the sport will get labled hypocritical and best and racist at worse.

Ridiculous criticisms like this - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47605542
I think this one is a little different, in that it was so close in both time and location to the Grand Prix. If a major attack happens in the same geographic region literally while the Grand Prix weekend is going on, to me that's different from simply observing the shooting of the week (which, here in America, is a real thing).
I get the argument for it but essentially when you start memorialising these things you inevitably end up in a situation where you have to send a message that someone else's tragedy isn't quite tragic enough as you can't do it for everything. It's better just to keep out and let individuals do what they like. That means more anyway.

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Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by JN23 »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Because very sadly attacks like this are not that rare globally - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... March_2019

If you memorialise this one you have to memorialise all of them. Otherwise you open your self up to criticism where the sport will get labled hypocritical and best and racist at worse.

Ridiculous criticisms like this - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47605542
I think this one is a little different, in that it was so close in both time and location to the Grand Prix. If a major attack happens in the same geographic region literally while the Grand Prix weekend is going on, to me that's different from simply observing the shooting of the week (which, here in America, is a real thing).
I get the argument for it but essentially when you start memorialising these things you inevitably end up in a situation where you have to send a message that someone else's tragedy isn't quite tragic enough as you can't do it for everything. It's better just to keep out and let individuals do what they like. That means more anyway.
I do agree with you mikeyg123. Was just interested in your reasoning for saying so.

I go to a lot of football games and have done for nearly 20 years now. In the first 15 years or so I don't remember many minutes silences at all, in the past few years it seems like I go to more games that have a minute silence that I go to games where there is no minutes silence. Part of me feels just keep any minute silences it to the sport taking place and let individuals remember horrible occurrences such as this in their own way.

However, I do appreciate that the above view isn't without problems.

Edit: I think what I'm trying to say is, the number of terror attacks/mass shootings/natural disasters etc means we should probably be doing minute silences every race/football match etc, but we don't. Let people remember and pay their respects in their own way.

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Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by jimmyj »

JN23 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Because very sadly attacks like this are not that rare globally - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... March_2019

If you memorialise this one you have to memorialise all of them. Otherwise you open your self up to criticism where the sport will get labled hypocritical and best and racist at worse.

Ridiculous criticisms like this - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47605542
I think this one is a little different, in that it was so close in both time and location to the Grand Prix. If a major attack happens in the same geographic region literally while the Grand Prix weekend is going on, to me that's different from simply observing the shooting of the week (which, here in America, is a real thing).
I get the argument for it but essentially when you start memorialising these things you inevitably end up in a situation where you have to send a message that someone else's tragedy isn't quite tragic enough as you can't do it for everything. It's better just to keep out and let individuals do what they like. That means more anyway.
I do agree with you mikeyg123. Was just interested in your reasoning for saying so.

I go to a lot of football games and have done for nearly 20 years now. In the first 15 years or so I don't remember many minutes silences at all, in the past few years it seems like I go to more games that have a minute silence that I go to games where there is no minutes silence. Part of me feels just keep any minute silences it to the sport taking place and let individuals remember horrible occurrences such as this in their own way.

However, I do appreciate that the above view isn't without problems.

Edit: I think what I'm trying to say is, the number of terror attacks/mass shootings/natural disasters etc means we should probably be doing minute silences every race/football match etc, but we don't. Let people remember and pay their respects in their own way.
That's kind of what i was trying to convey. We can't individualize all of them but we can still make a statement

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Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by mikeyg123 »

jimmyj wrote:
JN23 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Because very sadly attacks like this are not that rare globally - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... March_2019

If you memorialise this one you have to memorialise all of them. Otherwise you open your self up to criticism where the sport will get labled hypocritical and best and racist at worse.

Ridiculous criticisms like this - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47605542
I think this one is a little different, in that it was so close in both time and location to the Grand Prix. If a major attack happens in the same geographic region literally while the Grand Prix weekend is going on, to me that's different from simply observing the shooting of the week (which, here in America, is a real thing).
I get the argument for it but essentially when you start memorialising these things you inevitably end up in a situation where you have to send a message that someone else's tragedy isn't quite tragic enough as you can't do it for everything. It's better just to keep out and let individuals do what they like. That means more anyway.
I do agree with you mikeyg123. Was just interested in your reasoning for saying so.

I go to a lot of football games and have done for nearly 20 years now. In the first 15 years or so I don't remember many minutes silences at all, in the past few years it seems like I go to more games that have a minute silence that I go to games where there is no minutes silence. Part of me feels just keep any minute silences it to the sport taking place and let individuals remember horrible occurrences such as this in their own way.

However, I do appreciate that the above view isn't without problems.

Edit: I think what I'm trying to say is, the number of terror attacks/mass shootings/natural disasters etc means we should probably be doing minute silences every race/football match etc, but we don't. Let people remember and pay their respects in their own way.
That's kind of what i was trying to convey. We can't individualize all of them but we can still make a statement
But if you continue to do it every time you are no longer making a statement. If you do it a lot of the time it makes more of a statement when you don't do it and looks like you're condoning anything awful that may have happened recently.

Reading your post again I'm not sure if this is disagreeing with what you wrote or not. I've not deleted it because I still think it's worth adding.

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Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by jimmyj »

I agree with you. But i think a strong social movement like the "me too" one could be paralleled with a peace movement. I know it is ideological and somewhat contradictory.

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Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by dpastern »

Siao7 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
JN23 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:I hope not but there probably will be.
Out of interest, why is that?
Because very sadly attacks like this are not that rare globally - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... March_2019

If you memorialise this one you have to memorialise all of them. Otherwise you open your self up to criticism where the sport will get labled hypocritical and best and racist at worse.

Ridiculous criticisms like this - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47605542
Absolutely agreed.

I'd like F1 to stay out of politics or current affairs (as much as possible obviously). We've had it before, people trying to use F1 for any reasons, from the Turkish GP podium fiasco to the Bahrain protests.

It's a sport, let it be a sport.
Sorry, I disagree. It has a social obligation to set a good example. Remember when sports globally banned South Africa due to apartheid?

It now seems that $$$$$$$ are more important that standing up for what is right. It's a very American attitude that is sadly spreading like a virus throughout the rest of the world's civilised nations.

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Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by mikeyg123 »

dpastern wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
JN23 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:I hope not but there probably will be.
Out of interest, why is that?
Because very sadly attacks like this are not that rare globally - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... March_2019

If you memorialise this one you have to memorialise all of them. Otherwise you open your self up to criticism where the sport will get labled hypocritical and best and racist at worse.

Ridiculous criticisms like this - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47605542
Absolutely agreed.

I'd like F1 to stay out of politics or current affairs (as much as possible obviously). We've had it before, people trying to use F1 for any reasons, from the Turkish GP podium fiasco to the Bahrain protests.

It's a sport, let it be a sport.
Sorry, I disagree. It has a social obligation to set a good example. Remember when sports globally banned South Africa due to apartheid?

It now seems that $$$$$$$ are more important that standing up for what is right. It's a very American attitude that is sadly spreading like a virus throughout the rest of the world's civilised nations.
I don't really understand what you're saying here? What's money got to do with this particular case?

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Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by dpastern »

mikeyg123 wrote:
I don't really understand what you're saying here? What's money got to do with this particular case?
My bad for not being more specific.

Some comments prior to mine were of the opinion that sport shouldn't become involved in politics (in general). My comment was more in response to the Bahrain issues, and F1's lack of acknowledgement or response. Bahrain, after all, is a very wealthy country. I am of the firm belief, that sport, as a social event, has act on social responsibility to political and humane issues.

Let's consider China's appalling human rights issues (yet, there's still a Chinese GP, go figure), Russia's appalling human rights issues (again, there's a Russian GP). If the FIA had any balls, they'd boycott GP venues that have shown ongoing human rights violations. But hey, the FIA, and F1 is all about $$$$$$. Being American owned now, this is even more evident (America has a sordid history of supporting human rights violations over the years, and even currently, as an example, its ongoing support of Israel's illegal occupation of sovereign Palestinian territory).

Unfortunately, modern society has gravitated towards a stick your head in the sand approach to humane issues. As an example of this, the US' investment in manufacturing in China.

note: Both China, and Russia are signatories to the UN's charter on the declaration of human rights.

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Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by mikeyg123 »

dpastern wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I don't really understand what you're saying here? What's money got to do with this particular case?
My bad for not being more specific.

Some comments prior to mine were of the opinion that sport shouldn't become involved in politics (in general). My comment was more in response to the Bahrain issues, and F1's lack of acknowledgement or response. Bahrain, after all, is a very wealthy country. I am of the firm belief, that sport, as a social event, has act on social responsibility to political and humane issues.

Let's consider China's appalling human rights issues (yet, there's still a Chinese GP, go figure), Russia's appalling human rights issues (again, there's a Russian GP). If the FIA had any balls, they'd boycott GP venues that have shown ongoing human rights violations. But hey, the FIA, and F1 is all about $$$$$$. Being American owned now, this is even more evident (America has a sordid history of supporting human rights violations over the years, and even currently, as an example, its ongoing support of Israel's illegal occupation of sovereign Palestinian territory).

Unfortunately, modern society has gravitated towards a stick your head in the sand approach to humane issues. As an example of this, the US' investment in manufacturing in China.

note: Both China, and Russia are signatories to the UN's charter on the declaration of human rights.
They did skip Bahrain.

I think the problem is still the same though. If you start boycotting some countries you have to draw a line of what human riots violations are severe enough. By doing that it looks like you condone anything that may be bad but perhaps not bad enough to warrant a boycott. There are a bad things happening in most countries around the world.

Should Spain have been boycotted a few years ago after their violent reaction to the Basque independence vote for example?

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Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by Siao7 »

F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
JN23 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:I hope not but there probably will be.
Out of interest, why is that?
Because very sadly attacks like this are not that rare globally - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... March_2019

If you memorialise this one you have to memorialise all of them. Otherwise you open your self up to criticism where the sport will get labled hypocritical and best and racist at worse.

Ridiculous criticisms like this - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47605542
Absolutely agreed.

I'd like F1 to stay out of politics or current affairs (as much as possible obviously). We've had it before, people trying to use F1 for any reasons, from the Turkish GP podium fiasco to the Bahrain protests.

It's a sport, let it be a sport.
It's not about sports staying out of politics so much so as it's people have grown stupider over time and the tree hugging social police are always on the beat, just L@@KING for the most insignificant of things to harp on and get as many other nutjobs on their lynch mob bandwagon!!!

What's worse are companies giving into these cyber bullies and adhering to their wishes and even backing some of the idiocy, and you end up with people losing their jobs over literally nothing. Sadly CEO's and lead organizations are now comprised of some of these powder puffs and they appease these nitwits, giving them power when they literally should have none.
Well, I was just trying to relate to the F1 world! But yes, I agree completely, PC going mad now

Siao7
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Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by Siao7 »

dpastern wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
JN23 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:I hope not but there probably will be.
Out of interest, why is that?
Because very sadly attacks like this are not that rare globally - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... March_2019

If you memorialise this one you have to memorialise all of them. Otherwise you open your self up to criticism where the sport will get labled hypocritical and best and racist at worse.

Ridiculous criticisms like this - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47605542
Absolutely agreed.

I'd like F1 to stay out of politics or current affairs (as much as possible obviously). We've had it before, people trying to use F1 for any reasons, from the Turkish GP podium fiasco to the Bahrain protests.

It's a sport, let it be a sport.
Sorry, I disagree. It has a social obligation to set a good example. Remember when sports globally banned South Africa due to apartheid?

It now seems that $$$$$$$ are more important that standing up for what is right. It's a very American attitude that is sadly spreading like a virus throughout the rest of the world's civilised nations.
Yep, we can agree to disagree. Why does it have a social obligation to politics? And why only F1? Do you see that in any other shows that gain TV exposure? Do they do a minute's silence on every program televised? Are you outraged that they didn't hold a minute's silence in Britain's got Talent? Do you see where I'm going with this?

And Apartheid was a little bit different. I am up for boycotting things like that, places that there is actual danger for the drivers and personnel, let alone the wider social and political meaning. But F1 is not a political debate, it is a sport.

Siao7
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Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by Siao7 »

dpastern wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I don't really understand what you're saying here? What's money got to do with this particular case?
My bad for not being more specific.

Some comments prior to mine were of the opinion that sport shouldn't become involved in politics (in general). My comment was more in response to the Bahrain issues, and F1's lack of acknowledgement or response. Bahrain, after all, is a very wealthy country. I am of the firm belief, that sport, as a social event, has act on social responsibility to political and humane issues.

Let's consider China's appalling human rights issues (yet, there's still a Chinese GP, go figure), Russia's appalling human rights issues (again, there's a Russian GP). If the FIA had any balls, they'd boycott GP venues that have shown ongoing human rights violations. But hey, the FIA, and F1 is all about $$$$$$. Being American owned now, this is even more evident (America has a sordid history of supporting human rights violations over the years, and even currently, as an example, its ongoing support of Israel's illegal occupation of sovereign Palestinian territory).

Unfortunately, modern society has gravitated towards a stick your head in the sand approach to humane issues. As an example of this, the US' investment in manufacturing in China.

note: Both China, and Russia are signatories to the UN's charter on the declaration of human rights.
F1 is not there to judge on human rights or any other political/social issue.

Do you boycott every product from China? A quarter of Europe is served by Russian gas and pretty much the rest of the world from Chinese electronics. I bet half the equipment in your pc/phone at the moment are from there. If you want to make a statement then stop using these products; but F1 to boycott GPs while using Chinese products is two-faced to say the least.

Take Williams for example, they are using Chinese wheels the last few years (they may still do), from a Chinese company called Citic-Dicastal. Should they take part in a Chinese GP boycott while still using their products?

This does not mean that I condone what is happening in these countries, nor that people should turn a blind eye. But I do not like a half-arsed solution, political or social statements taking advantage F1's popularity. We have seen how this can go wrong, Turkey tried to do that in that GP podium.

dpastern
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Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by dpastern »

mikeyg123 wrote:
dpastern wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I don't really understand what you're saying here? What's money got to do with this particular case?
My bad for not being more specific.

Some comments prior to mine were of the opinion that sport shouldn't become involved in politics (in general). My comment was more in response to the Bahrain issues, and F1's lack of acknowledgement or response. Bahrain, after all, is a very wealthy country. I am of the firm belief, that sport, as a social event, has act on social responsibility to political and humane issues.

Let's consider China's appalling human rights issues (yet, there's still a Chinese GP, go figure), Russia's appalling human rights issues (again, there's a Russian GP). If the FIA had any balls, they'd boycott GP venues that have shown ongoing human rights violations. But hey, the FIA, and F1 is all about $$$$$$. Being American owned now, this is even more evident (America has a sordid history of supporting human rights violations over the years, and even currently, as an example, its ongoing support of Israel's illegal occupation of sovereign Palestinian territory).

Unfortunately, modern society has gravitated towards a stick your head in the sand approach to humane issues. As an example of this, the US' investment in manufacturing in China.

note: Both China, and Russia are signatories to the UN's charter on the declaration of human rights.
They did skip Bahrain.

I think the problem is still the same though. If you start boycotting some countries you have to draw a line of what human riots violations are severe enough. By doing that it looks like you condone anything that may be bad but perhaps not bad enough to warrant a boycott. There are a bad things happening in most countries around the world.

Should Spain have been boycotted a few years ago after their violent reaction to the Basque independence vote for example?
When did they skip Bahrain? As far as I know, it's still on the calendar, and hasn't been skipped for human rights violations.

As to Spain, yes, in my eyes, in a perfect world, that would also qualify.

Sadly, $$$$$ more important than doing the morally right thing.

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minchy
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Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by minchy »

dpastern wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
dpastern wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I don't really understand what you're saying here? What's money got to do with this particular case?
My bad for not being more specific.

Some comments prior to mine were of the opinion that sport shouldn't become involved in politics (in general). My comment was more in response to the Bahrain issues, and F1's lack of acknowledgement or response. Bahrain, after all, is a very wealthy country. I am of the firm belief, that sport, as a social event, has act on social responsibility to political and humane issues.

Let's consider China's appalling human rights issues (yet, there's still a Chinese GP, go figure), Russia's appalling human rights issues (again, there's a Russian GP). If the FIA had any balls, they'd boycott GP venues that have shown ongoing human rights violations. But hey, the FIA, and F1 is all about $$$$$$. Being American owned now, this is even more evident (America has a sordid history of supporting human rights violations over the years, and even currently, as an example, its ongoing support of Israel's illegal occupation of sovereign Palestinian territory).

Unfortunately, modern society has gravitated towards a stick your head in the sand approach to humane issues. As an example of this, the US' investment in manufacturing in China.

note: Both China, and Russia are signatories to the UN's charter on the declaration of human rights.
They did skip Bahrain.

I think the problem is still the same though. If you start boycotting some countries you have to draw a line of what human riots violations are severe enough. By doing that it looks like you condone anything that may be bad but perhaps not bad enough to warrant a boycott. There are a bad things happening in most countries around the world.

Should Spain have been boycotted a few years ago after their violent reaction to the Basque independence vote for example?
When did they skip Bahrain? As far as I know, it's still on the calendar, and hasn't been skipped for human rights violations.

As to Spain, yes, in my eyes, in a perfect world, that would also qualify.

Sadly, $$$$$ more important than doing the morally right thing.
They did skip it 1 year during the conflicts there, but that was due to safety reasons for the teams rather than ethical reasons.
There is no theory of evolution, just a list of animals that Chuck Norris allows to live.

dpastern
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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:45 am

Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by dpastern »

Siao7 wrote: Yep, we can agree to disagree. Why does it have a social obligation to politics? And why only F1? Do you see that in any other shows that gain TV exposure? Do they do a minute's silence on every program televised? Are you outraged that they didn't hold a minute's silence in Britain's got Talent? Do you see where I'm going with this?

And Apartheid was a little bit different. I am up for boycotting things like that, places that there is actual danger for the drivers and personnel, let alone the wider social and political meaning. But F1 is not a political debate, it is a sport.
I never said only F1, don't put words in my mouth please. This is a F1 specific forum, hence assuming posters would put 2 and 2 together and realise what applies to F1 should apply to other sports.

Britain's got talent ain't a sport, so a very poor analogy on your part, but I do get your point. Where do you draw the line? Major sports events. We all know what they are and how they differ from minor sporting events.

Try and be a member of the F1 entourage and be openly gay in Bahrain, Russia, China or Abu Dhabi and see what happens. You'll end up bashed and then in jail (if not outright murdered). Try and be a woman and being able to wear what you want openly in any of the middle eastern countries.

PS South Africa is still a nightmare hellhole - my source, several people who used to live there and have fled the country. It is the most dangerous country in the world (even more dangerous than Mexico).

dpastern
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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:45 am

Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by dpastern »

minchy wrote:
They did skip it 1 year during the conflicts there, but that was due to safety reasons for the teams rather than ethical reasons.
I don't recollect the event being skipped! My bad.

dpastern
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:45 am

Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by dpastern »

Siao7 wrote:
F1 is not there to judge on human rights or any other political/social issue.

Do you boycott every product from China? A quarter of Europe is served by Russian gas and pretty much the rest of the world from Chinese electronics. I bet half the equipment in your pc/phone at the moment are from there. If you want to make a statement then stop using these products; but F1 to boycott GPs while using Chinese products is two-faced to say the least.

Take Williams for example, they are using Chinese wheels the last few years (they may still do), from a Chinese company called Citic-Dicastal. Should they take part in a Chinese GP boycott while still using their products?

This does not mean that I condone what is happening in these countries, nor that people should turn a blind eye. But I do not like a half-arsed solution, political or social statements taking advantage F1's popularity. We have seen how this can go wrong, Turkey tried to do that in that GP podium.
The problem is these countries are being financially rewarded by events being held within their borders. I simply find that morally abhorrent.

And yes, I try and, wherever possible, avoid buying products made in China - it is exceptionally difficult though, since 99% of items for sale are made in China these days. I try and by Australian made, wherever possible.

With your views, how are these countries punished? Or, do we cast a blind eye and let them continue to commit human atrocities and right violations because it's too hard or too inconvenient to deal with on a global basis?

The UN is a joke as long as there is the security council and the right to veto vote.

I hold little hope for the human species, but perhaps it is for the best that we wipe each other out. I'm sure the rest of the planet's species won't miss us and will be happy to see our backsides!

Siao7
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Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am

Re: Should F1 acknowledge the New Zealand tragedy this weeke

Post by Siao7 »

dpastern wrote:
Siao7 wrote: Yep, we can agree to disagree. Why does it have a social obligation to politics? And why only F1? Do you see that in any other shows that gain TV exposure? Do they do a minute's silence on every program televised? Are you outraged that they didn't hold a minute's silence in Britain's got Talent? Do you see where I'm going with this?

And Apartheid was a little bit different. I am up for boycotting things like that, places that there is actual danger for the drivers and personnel, let alone the wider social and political meaning. But F1 is not a political debate, it is a sport.
I never said only F1, don't put words in my mouth please. This is a F1 specific forum, hence assuming posters would put 2 and 2 together and realise what applies to F1 should apply to other sports.

Britain's got talent ain't a sport, so a very poor analogy on your part, but I do get your point. Where do you draw the line? Major sports events. We all know what they are and how they differ from minor sporting events.

Try and be a member of the F1 entourage and be openly gay in Bahrain, Russia, China or Abu Dhabi and see what happens. You'll end up bashed and then in jail (if not outright murdered). Try and be a woman and being able to wear what you want openly in any of the middle eastern countries.

PS South Africa is still a nightmare hellhole - my source, several people who used to live there and have fled the country. It is the most dangerous country in the world (even more dangerous than Mexico).
I wasn't trying to put words into your mouth, I was making a general point, thankfully you got it in your next sentence.

Where to draw the line is the gist of it. That's what Mikey123 was alluding to, that you can't do it for one and not for the others. There should be a line and the line should be easy to draw in a sport; just do not get involved at all.

I agree about these issues existing in the countries you mentioned. I just do not think that F1 should be the one solving all these issues

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