Point for fastest lap / Fastest lap stats (merged)

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pokerman
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by pokerman »

kowen1208 wrote:
mmi16 wrote:And with that pit stop they could have had a gun failure or some other form if pit stop malady.
We heard exactly that reasoning from Mercedes in declining to bring in Bottas even though he had a clear gap to Hamilton. They don't see earning one extra point worth putting the other 25 at risk. However, I would like to see teams roll the dice more. How often do you have a problem with a pit stop? How often does a problem with a pit stop cause retirement of the car, or a big enough delay that they would drop out of the points? I feel like Mercedes' success rate is great enough that it would have been a safe gamble. Certain other teams, it would have been a lot riskier. With Ferrari, I'm wondering if they felt they wouldn't have had the pace to challenge even if they did have fresh rubber.
If that did happen though you would look like total clowns.
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by pokerman »

Jenson's Understeer wrote:
cmberry20 wrote:Question :
If a driver sets the fastest lap but then retires on the last lap, does the point go to the person who set the next quickest lap but is still running?
Also, does the same rule apply if the driver is, say 9th, and sets the fastest lap then spins and drops out of the top 10 but still finishes?
The bonus point is only awarded if a driver does the fastest lap of the race and is classified in the top 10.

So in scenario one, it would depend entirely on whether the driver was still classified in the top 10 or not. Theoretically they could be - if they were running in 5th and everyone up to 7th had been lapped, even if they didn't complete the final lap they would fall no lower than 6th (by virtue of the lapped cars doing one lap less). However, if they retired and were classified 11th or lower, they wouldn't receive the extra point.

In scenario two, no driver would be awarded the bonus point.
Is scenario two really correct?
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Covalent »

I think the last race puts to rest any arguments that the drivers in the top 3 wouldn't risk their positions by going for the FL. They all did...

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by kowen1208 »

pokerman wrote:If that did happen though you would look like total clowns.
True, which is why I think if there's going to be a bonus for fastest lap, then it needs to be a big enough bonus to incentivize taking the risk of a pit stop, maybe as many as five bonus points.

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

kowen1208 wrote:
pokerman wrote:If that did happen though you would look like total clowns.
True, which is why I think if there's going to be a bonus for fastest lap, then it needs to be a big enough bonus to incentivize taking the risk of a pit stop, maybe as many as five bonus points.
Completely disagree, it should never be more than 1 point.

You'll end up with scenarios where someone in say 8th place would rather pit and lose 2 places to try for the fastest lap because 10th + fastest lap gives more points than 8th place. The reward should in no way ever be worth more than track position.

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by kowen1208 »

Black_Flag_11 wrote:
kowen1208 wrote:
pokerman wrote:If that did happen though you would look like total clowns.
True, which is why I think if there's going to be a bonus for fastest lap, then it needs to be a big enough bonus to incentivize taking the risk of a pit stop, maybe as many as five bonus points.
Completely disagree, it should never be more than 1 point.

You'll end up with scenarios where someone in say 8th place would rather pit and lose 2 places to try for the fastest lap because 10th + fastest lap gives more points than 8th place. The reward should in no way ever be worth more than track position.
In such a scenario, what would the cars running in 9th and 10th do? By 8th pitting and losing two positions, it gives 9th and 10th options. They could hold position and take the free point that was given to them by 8th, or they could also pit and try for the bonus. Everyone seems to forget the domino effect that can be set off by one pit stop. We see it every race; one car pits, and then most everyone else starts to come in. Even if it was only the one car that came in, setting the fastest lap isn't a guarantee, and it's anything but that if multiple cars come in.

We saw drivers going for the point yesterday, but nobody made the hard decision to come in to the pits; not even the drivers who had a big enough gap. If the bonus was five points, I bet Bottas and LeClerc would have both come in because of the gaps they had. That would have left a big enough gap for Vettel to also pit and make an attempt. But maybe they would have left him out to prevent giving Verstappen and then Hamilton a gap, and because maybe they weren't confident in his pace. Maybe Verstappen would have pitted anyway because he had so much more pace; maybe he would have been confident in catching and passing Vettel again AND setting fastest lap.

My point is that if a big enough reward is on offer, the decisions of one driver will absolutely impact the decisions of others. I think there should either not be a bonus point, or have the bonus big enough that it forces teams and drivers to make those hard decisions.

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by pokerman »

kowen1208 wrote:
pokerman wrote:If that did happen though you would look like total clowns.
True, which is why I think if there's going to be a bonus for fastest lap, then it needs to be a big enough bonus to incentivize taking the risk of a pit stop, maybe as many as five bonus points.
Then you just devalue were you actually finish in the race, the 3rd place driver shouldn't score more points then the 2nd place driver.
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by kowen1208 »

pokerman wrote:
kowen1208 wrote:
pokerman wrote:If that did happen though you would look like total clowns.
True, which is why I think if there's going to be a bonus for fastest lap, then it needs to be a big enough bonus to incentivize taking the risk of a pit stop, maybe as many as five bonus points.
Then you just devalue were you actually finish in the race, the 3rd place driver shouldn't score more points then the 2nd place driver.
See my post above yours for more clarification. And I'll reiterate, I think there needs to be no bonus, or a big enough bonus to force difficult decisions.

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by pokerman »

kowen1208 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
kowen1208 wrote:
pokerman wrote:If that did happen though you would look like total clowns.
True, which is why I think if there's going to be a bonus for fastest lap, then it needs to be a big enough bonus to incentivize taking the risk of a pit stop, maybe as many as five bonus points.
Then you just devalue were you actually finish in the race, the 3rd place driver shouldn't score more points then the 2nd place driver.
See my post above yours for more clarification. And I'll reiterate, I think there needs to be no bonus, or a big enough bonus to force difficult decisions.
I think seeing multiple cars pitting near the end of the race trying to get the 5 bonus points would make a mockery of the race itself, the fastest lap would be more important than cars actually trying to pass one another late in the race, at the end of the day it's a race and not a time trial.
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by kowen1208 »

pokerman wrote:
kowen1208 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
kowen1208 wrote:
pokerman wrote:If that did happen though you would look like total clowns.
True, which is why I think if there's going to be a bonus for fastest lap, then it needs to be a big enough bonus to incentivize taking the risk of a pit stop, maybe as many as five bonus points.
Then you just devalue were you actually finish in the race, the 3rd place driver shouldn't score more points then the 2nd place driver.
See my post above yours for more clarification. And I'll reiterate, I think there needs to be no bonus, or a big enough bonus to force difficult decisions.
I think seeing multiple cars pitting near the end of the race trying to get the 5 bonus points would make a mockery of the race itself, the fastest lap would be more important than cars actually trying to pass one another late in the race, at the end of the day it's a race and not a time trial.
Yeah, I'd personally prefer to see other ways to spice up races than a fastest lap bonus. I'm just trying to say that a one-point bonus isn't much to encourage behavior different from what we've seen in recent years.

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by pokerman »

kowen1208 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
kowen1208 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
kowen1208 wrote: True, which is why I think if there's going to be a bonus for fastest lap, then it needs to be a big enough bonus to incentivize taking the risk of a pit stop, maybe as many as five bonus points.
Then you just devalue were you actually finish in the race, the 3rd place driver shouldn't score more points then the 2nd place driver.
See my post above yours for more clarification. And I'll reiterate, I think there needs to be no bonus, or a big enough bonus to force difficult decisions.
I think seeing multiple cars pitting near the end of the race trying to get the 5 bonus points would make a mockery of the race itself, the fastest lap would be more important than cars actually trying to pass one another late in the race, at the end of the day it's a race and not a time trial.
Yeah, I'd personally prefer to see other ways to spice up races than a fastest lap bonus. I'm just trying to say that a one-point bonus isn't much to encourage behavior different from what we've seen in recent years.
With the front 3 cars trying to get the extra point I would say it did encourage different behaviour, what we have seen however is that the cars running lower in the top 10 don't have the luxury to pit and try for the extra point.
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Harpo »

Covalent wrote:I think the last race puts to rest any arguments that the drivers in the top 3 wouldn't risk their positions by going for the FL. They all did...
My argument is not that drivers wouldn't go for it, but that there shouldn't be a reward for fastest lap when the whole purpose of racing is trying to go faster than the car in front of you, and faster than the car following you, on average on the whole length of the race... The fastest lap means nothing "per se", especially during the last 2 laps of a race (except when there is still a close battle for position at this moment, and the reward for trying to be the fastest at this moment is the position you get - or not - on the finish line).
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by pokerman »

Interesting what it has done is give the fastest lap meaning again, in recent years the fastest lap stat has been meaningless, quoting fastest laps on a driver's cv is pointless when other drivers don't even try to obtain it.
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by DOLOMITE »

Mods, Can this thread be merged with the fastest laps stats one?

http://forum.planet-f1.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15437?

seems to be basically the same discussion
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Mod Aqua »

DOLOMITE wrote:Mods, Can this thread be merged with the fastest laps stats one?

http://forum.planet-f1.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15437?

seems to be basically the same discussion
Done.

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Fiki »

pokerman wrote:Interesting what it has done is give the fastest lap meaning again, in recent years the fastest lap stat has been meaningless, quoting fastest laps on a driver's cv is pointless when other drivers don't even try to obtain it.
I would point like to point out that, although circumstances always have to be taken into account when assessing their importance, fastest laps were "pointless" but often far from meaningless.
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by pokerman »

Fiki wrote:
pokerman wrote:Interesting what it has done is give the fastest lap meaning again, in recent years the fastest lap stat has been meaningless, quoting fastest laps on a driver's cv is pointless when other drivers don't even try to obtain it.
I would point like to point out that, although circumstances always have to be taken into account when assessing their importance, fastest laps were "pointless" but often far from meaningless.
In recent years they have been meaningless.
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Blake »

pokerman wrote:
Fiki wrote:
pokerman wrote:Interesting what it has done is give the fastest lap meaning again, in recent years the fastest lap stat has been meaningless, quoting fastest laps on a driver's cv is pointless when other drivers don't even try to obtain it.
I would point like to point out that, although circumstances always have to be taken into account when assessing their importance, fastest laps were "pointless" but often far from meaningless.
In recent years they have been meaningless.
In recent years, they have indeed been meaningless, and in my opinion, they still are.... except for the point. If they are going to give a point for the fastest lap, I really do think that the whole field, should be eligible to earn it. Why restrict it to the top 10??? that one more point could mean a lot more to a lower level team than the top teams, so why should they be excluded?
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by mikeyg123 »

Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Fiki wrote:
pokerman wrote:Interesting what it has done is give the fastest lap meaning again, in recent years the fastest lap stat has been meaningless, quoting fastest laps on a driver's cv is pointless when other drivers don't even try to obtain it.
I would point like to point out that, although circumstances always have to be taken into account when assessing their importance, fastest laps were "pointless" but often far from meaningless.
In recent years they have been meaningless.
In recent years, they have indeed been meaningless, and in my opinion, they still are.... except for the point. If they are going to give a point for the fastest lap, I really do think that the whole field, should be eligible to earn it. Why restrict it to the top 10??? that one more point could mean a lot more to a lower level team than the top teams, so why should they be excluded?
Because anyone outside of the points going into the last 10 laps would pit repeatedly to use any fresh tyres they had and it would look farcical.

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by pokerman »

Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Fiki wrote:
pokerman wrote:Interesting what it has done is give the fastest lap meaning again, in recent years the fastest lap stat has been meaningless, quoting fastest laps on a driver's cv is pointless when other drivers don't even try to obtain it.
I would point like to point out that, although circumstances always have to be taken into account when assessing their importance, fastest laps were "pointless" but often far from meaningless.
In recent years they have been meaningless.
In recent years, they have indeed been meaningless, and in my opinion, they still are.... except for the point. If they are going to give a point for the fastest lap, I really do think that the whole field, should be eligible to earn it. Why restrict it to the top 10??? that one more point could mean a lot more to a lower level team than the top teams, so why should they be excluded?
They've done it because otherwise the race would become a shambles near the end of the race with drivers out of the points pitting for fresh tyres and then perhaps interfering with the race of the leaders, at the end of the day it's who wins the race that is more important and we don't want more Verstappen/Ocon type incidents.
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Re: Point for fastest lap / Fastest lap stats (merged)

Post by kowen1208 »

The fastest lap situation was very different in Bahrain than it did in Melbourne. Leclerc set fastest lap much earlier in this race (lap 38 of 57) than Bottas did two weeks ago (lap 57 of 58), and the latest personal best anyone set was lap 51. What's your take? Did nobody feel they had the pace to challenge for it? I thought Seb had a chance to go for it after his unexpected pit stop.

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Re: Point for fastest lap / Fastest lap stats (merged)

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

kowen1208 wrote:The fastest lap situation was very different in Bahrain than it did in Melbourne. Leclerc set fastest lap much earlier in this race (lap 38 of 57) than Bottas did two weeks ago (lap 57 of 58), and the latest personal best anyone set was lap 51. What's your take? Did nobody feel they had the pace to challenge for it? I thought Seb had a chance to go for it after his unexpected pit stop.
There was a safety car at the end of the race during the equivalent laps that everyone went to party mode in Australia.

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Re: Point for fastest lap / Fastest lap stats (merged)

Post by kowen1208 »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
kowen1208 wrote:The fastest lap situation was very different in Bahrain than it did in Melbourne. Leclerc set fastest lap much earlier in this race (lap 38 of 57) than Bottas did two weeks ago (lap 57 of 58), and the latest personal best anyone set was lap 51. What's your take? Did nobody feel they had the pace to challenge for it? I thought Seb had a chance to go for it after his unexpected pit stop.
There was a safety car at the end of the race during the equivalent laps that everyone went to party mode in Australia.
I may be misremembering, but I feel like the pace was picking up with several laps to go in Melbourne. I don't think the pace in Bahrain was really picking up, and I don't remember hearing any radio communication about it.

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Re: Point for fastest lap / Fastest lap stats (merged)

Post by JN23 »

kowen1208 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
kowen1208 wrote:The fastest lap situation was very different in Bahrain than it did in Melbourne. Leclerc set fastest lap much earlier in this race (lap 38 of 57) than Bottas did two weeks ago (lap 57 of 58), and the latest personal best anyone set was lap 51. What's your take? Did nobody feel they had the pace to challenge for it? I thought Seb had a chance to go for it after his unexpected pit stop.
There was a safety car at the end of the race during the equivalent laps that everyone went to party mode in Australia.
I may be misremembering, but I feel like the pace was picking up with several laps to go in Melbourne. I don't think the pace in Bahrain was really picking up, and I don't remember hearing any radio communication about it.
That is the way I remember it too kowen1208. Someone might have been waiting to go for it on the final lap, but I think it could be more likely that tyre wear was higher in Bahrain so drivers felt they didn't have the tyres to bother trying.

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Re: Point for fastest lap / Fastest lap stats (merged)

Post by kowen1208 »

JN23 wrote:
kowen1208 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
kowen1208 wrote:The fastest lap situation was very different in Bahrain than it did in Melbourne. Leclerc set fastest lap much earlier in this race (lap 38 of 57) than Bottas did two weeks ago (lap 57 of 58), and the latest personal best anyone set was lap 51. What's your take? Did nobody feel they had the pace to challenge for it? I thought Seb had a chance to go for it after his unexpected pit stop.
There was a safety car at the end of the race during the equivalent laps that everyone went to party mode in Australia.
I may be misremembering, but I feel like the pace was picking up with several laps to go in Melbourne. I don't think the pace in Bahrain was really picking up, and I don't remember hearing any radio communication about it.
That is the way I remember it too kowen1208. Someone might have been waiting to go for it on the final lap, but I think it could be more likely that tyre wear was higher in Bahrain so drivers felt they didn't have the tyres to bother trying.
Yeah, maybe tire wear. Maybe track conditions were moving away from optimal.

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Re: Point for fastest lap / Fastest lap stats (merged)

Post by tootsie323 »

kowen1208 wrote:
JN23 wrote:
kowen1208 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
kowen1208 wrote:The fastest lap situation was very different in Bahrain than it did in Melbourne. Leclerc set fastest lap much earlier in this race (lap 38 of 57) than Bottas did two weeks ago (lap 57 of 58), and the latest personal best anyone set was lap 51. What's your take? Did nobody feel they had the pace to challenge for it? I thought Seb had a chance to go for it after his unexpected pit stop.
There was a safety car at the end of the race during the equivalent laps that everyone went to party mode in Australia.
I may be misremembering, but I feel like the pace was picking up with several laps to go in Melbourne. I don't think the pace in Bahrain was really picking up, and I don't remember hearing any radio communication about it.
That is the way I remember it too kowen1208. Someone might have been waiting to go for it on the final lap, but I think it could be more likely that tyre wear was higher in Bahrain so drivers felt they didn't have the tyres to bother trying.
Yeah, maybe tire wear. Maybe track conditions were moving away from optimal.
I'll second that. A circuit more abrasive no the tyres coupled with (what I'd assume were) dropping ambient temperature.
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Re: Point for fastest lap / Fastest lap stats (merged)

Post by wolfticket »

Just to dig this back up again now teams have got on top strategy of the point for fastest lap:

I don't think it is working.

- Generally the point is going to the worst positioned of the top tier of cars, simple by virtue of being at the back of the train and having a big gap behind.

- Moreover today Vettel actually went for "Plan F" fairly early on, abandoning chasing down 4th in the knowledge that his pitting meant a guaranteed extra point.

It seems like it's settling into a pattern of (a) Rewarding having a poor race in a good car, and (b) Sometimes actually hurting the prospect of racing for position towards the end of the race


Barring getting rid of it all together, my idea would be to at least award the fastest lap point with a buffer to the end of the race, so maybe with 10/15 laps to go. That way I think you'd remove a lot of the certainty/security that comes with being able to pit-and-dash right at the end, better integrating the fastest lap award into the race.
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Re: Point for fastest lap / Fastest lap stats (merged)

Post by sandman1347 »

wolfticket wrote:Just to dig this back up again now teams have got on top strategy of the point for fastest lap:

I don't think it is working.

- Generally the point is going to the worst positioned of the top tier of cars, simple by virtue of being at the back of the train and having a big gap behind.

- Moreover today Vettel actually went for "Plan F" fairly early on, abandoning chasing down 4th in the knowledge that his pitting meant a guaranteed extra point.

It seems like it's settling into a pattern of (a) Rewarding having a poor race in a good car, and (b) Sometimes actually hurting the prospect of racing for position towards the end of the race


Barring getting rid of it all together, my idea would be to at least award the fastest lap point with a buffer to the end of the race, so maybe with 10/15 laps to go. That way I think you'd remove a lot of the certainty/security that comes with being able to pit-and-dash right at the end, better integrating the fastest lap award into the race.
100% agree. It's a bit of a farce for Vettel to "earn" an extra point today. We've also seen Gasly accomplish this in the same manner. Being nowhere relative to your actual competition shouldn't net you an extra point. For me, it should be dropped for next year.

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Re: Point for fastest lap / Fastest lap stats (merged)

Post by Badgeronimous »

Fastest lap only works if the grids closer.

I generally find it an interesting concept, but the way F1 is just now sees it not working how it is supposed to.

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Re: Point for fastest lap / Fastest lap stats (merged)

Post by Blake »

sandman1347 wrote:
wolfticket wrote:Just to dig this back up again now teams have got on top strategy of the point for fastest lap:

I don't think it is working.

- Generally the point is going to the worst positioned of the top tier of cars, simple by virtue of being at the back of the train and having a big gap behind.

- Moreover today Vettel actually went for "Plan F" fairly early on, abandoning chasing down 4th in the knowledge that his pitting meant a guaranteed extra point.

It seems like it's settling into a pattern of (a) Rewarding having a poor race in a good car, and (b) Sometimes actually hurting the prospect of racing for position towards the end of the race


Barring getting rid of it all together, my idea would be to at least award the fastest lap point with a buffer to the end of the race, so maybe with 10/15 laps to go. That way I think you'd remove a lot of the certainty/security that comes with being able to pit-and-dash right at the end, better integrating the fastest lap award into the race.
100% agree. It's a bit of a farce for Vettel to "earn" an extra point today. We've also seen Gasly accomplish this in the same manner. Being nowhere relative to your actual competition shouldn't net you an extra point. For me, it should be dropped for next year.
I wasn't in favor of a point for fastest lap, but since they do have it,I think that ANY driver should be able to go for it. The idea that only a driver in the Top ten, or close "to your actual competition" is the farce as I see it. That one point could mean a hell of a lot to a team all up and down the grid...Perhaps even more for the lower tier of teams than the leaders.
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Re: Point for fastest lap / Fastest lap stats (merged)

Post by shoot999 »

Badgeronimous wrote:Fastest lap only works if the grids closer.

I generally find it an interesting concept, but the way F1 is just now sees it not working how it is supposed to.
Seems like giving a consolation prize to the fat kid who always comes last

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Re: Point for fastest lap / Fastest lap stats (merged)

Post by sandman1347 »

Blake wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
wolfticket wrote:Just to dig this back up again now teams have got on top strategy of the point for fastest lap:

I don't think it is working.

- Generally the point is going to the worst positioned of the top tier of cars, simple by virtue of being at the back of the train and having a big gap behind.

- Moreover today Vettel actually went for "Plan F" fairly early on, abandoning chasing down 4th in the knowledge that his pitting meant a guaranteed extra point.

It seems like it's settling into a pattern of (a) Rewarding having a poor race in a good car, and (b) Sometimes actually hurting the prospect of racing for position towards the end of the race


Barring getting rid of it all together, my idea would be to at least award the fastest lap point with a buffer to the end of the race, so maybe with 10/15 laps to go. That way I think you'd remove a lot of the certainty/security that comes with being able to pit-and-dash right at the end, better integrating the fastest lap award into the race.
100% agree. It's a bit of a farce for Vettel to "earn" an extra point today. We've also seen Gasly accomplish this in the same manner. Being nowhere relative to your actual competition shouldn't net you an extra point. For me, it should be dropped for next year.
I wasn't in favor of a point for fastest lap, but since they do have it,I think that ANY driver should be able to go for it. The idea that only a driver in the Top ten, or close "to your actual competition" is the farce as I see it. That one point could mean a hell of a lot to a team all up and down the grid...Perhaps even more for the lower tier of teams than the leaders.
I'm not following you here. The issue is that the non-Big 3 cars cannot get the point. Whoever is at the back of the big boys group will have the gap behind to pit and go for it. So the problem at the moment is that the extra point seems to consistently go to the worst performer among the big 3.

Option or Prime
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Re: Point for fastest lap / Fastest lap stats (merged)

Post by Option or Prime »

Blake wrote: I wasn't in favor of a point for fastest lap, but since they do have it,I think that ANY driver should be able to go for it. The idea that only a driver in the Top ten, or close "to your actual competition" is the farce as I see it. That one point could mean a hell of a lot to a team all up and down the grid...Perhaps even more for the lower tier of teams than the leaders.
I think I agree here, it shouldn't be restricted to top 10 drivers, I wonder if it should go to driver of the day to recognise up and coming talent. That way you reward drivers skills rather than manufacturers resources. I'm not sure it is working.

sandman1347
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Re: Point for fastest lap / Fastest lap stats (merged)

Post by sandman1347 »

Blake - I see what you eman now. You're referring to the fact that you have to finish inside the top 10 to get that point. I don't think the cars further back will ever be quick enough to beat that Big 3 poacher though.

JN23
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Re: Point for fastest lap / Fastest lap stats (merged)

Post by JN23 »

Option or Prime wrote:
Blake wrote: I wasn't in favor of a point for fastest lap, but since they do have it,I think that ANY driver should be able to go for it. The idea that only a driver in the Top ten, or close "to your actual competition" is the farce as I see it. That one point could mean a hell of a lot to a team all up and down the grid...Perhaps even more for the lower tier of teams than the leaders.
I think I agree here, it shouldn't be restricted to top 10 drivers, I wonder if it should go to driver of the day to recognise up and coming talent. That way you reward drivers skills rather than manufacturers resources. I'm not sure it is working.
Who decides who is driver of the day? The public vote one at the moment can be a bit of a joke at times tbh.

sandman1347
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Re: Point for fastest lap / Fastest lap stats (merged)

Post by sandman1347 »

JN23 wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Blake wrote: I wasn't in favor of a point for fastest lap, but since they do have it,I think that ANY driver should be able to go for it. The idea that only a driver in the Top ten, or close "to your actual competition" is the farce as I see it. That one point could mean a hell of a lot to a team all up and down the grid...Perhaps even more for the lower tier of teams than the leaders.
I think I agree here, it shouldn't be restricted to top 10 drivers, I wonder if it should go to driver of the day to recognise up and coming talent. That way you reward drivers skills rather than manufacturers resources. I'm not sure it is working.
Who decides who is driver of the day? The public vote one at the moment can be a bit of a joke at times tbh.
In the age of the internet, public voting has become very unreliable.

wolfticket
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Re: Point for fastest lap / Fastest lap stats (merged)

Post by wolfticket »

Blake wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
wolfticket wrote:Just to dig this back up again now teams have got on top strategy of the point for fastest lap:

I don't think it is working.

- Generally the point is going to the worst positioned of the top tier of cars, simple by virtue of being at the back of the train and having a big gap behind.

- Moreover today Vettel actually went for "Plan F" fairly early on, abandoning chasing down 4th in the knowledge that his pitting meant a guaranteed extra point.

It seems like it's settling into a pattern of (a) Rewarding having a poor race in a good car, and (b) Sometimes actually hurting the prospect of racing for position towards the end of the race


Barring getting rid of it all together, my idea would be to at least award the fastest lap point with a buffer to the end of the race, so maybe with 10/15 laps to go. That way I think you'd remove a lot of the certainty/security that comes with being able to pit-and-dash right at the end, better integrating the fastest lap award into the race.
100% agree. It's a bit of a farce for Vettel to "earn" an extra point today. We've also seen Gasly accomplish this in the same manner. Being nowhere relative to your actual competition shouldn't net you an extra point. For me, it should be dropped for next year.
I wasn't in favor of a point for fastest lap, but since they do have it,I think that ANY driver should be able to go for it. The idea that only a driver in the Top ten, or close "to your actual competition" is the farce as I see it. That one point could mean a hell of a lot to a team all up and down the grid...Perhaps even more for the lower tier of teams than the leaders.
I don't think that would make any difference in the vast majority of cases. A driver in one of the top cars but not in contention for a particularly strong finish would still take it in the vast majority of cases. A clean lap on news softs isn't suddenly going to make the midfield start taking them.

...And even if it did you still have the same issue shifted down. Only cars who by virtue of either randomly having a huge gap behind or being totally out of contention would be able to countenance pitting with a lap or so to go. It still rewards either nothing, or worse, uncompetitiveness.


I maintain the only possible solution/mitigation is to make going for the fastest lap have more of a potential impact/risk on the rest of the race, which for me would mean keeping the top 10 only rule but also discounting lap times set within (for instance) 10 laps of the finish.

If you do that I don't think you'd see many drivers pitting on lap 12 to specifically go for the fastest lap simply because there is more time for developments in the race to occur that could be more beneficial than the single extra point. That way you'd see more natural fastest laps that would maybe reward single lap pace and aggressive (but workable) race strategies.
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Option or Prime
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Re: Point for fastest lap / Fastest lap stats (merged)

Post by Option or Prime »

sandman1347 wrote:
JN23 wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Blake wrote: I wasn't in favor of a point for fastest lap, but since they do have it,I think that ANY driver should be able to go for it. The idea that only a driver in the Top ten, or close "to your actual competition" is the farce as I see it. That one point could mean a hell of a lot to a team all up and down the grid...Perhaps even more for the lower tier of teams than the leaders.
I think I agree here, it shouldn't be restricted to top 10 drivers, I wonder if it should go to driver of the day to recognise up and coming talent. That way you reward drivers skills rather than manufacturers resources. I'm not sure it is working.
Who decides who is driver of the day? The public vote one at the moment can be a bit of a joke at times tbh.
In the age of the internet, public voting has become very unreliable.
True, but it doesn't have to go on social media, a panel, a combination of sources, a drivers vote. Its not beyond the wit of man to find a fair method. It doesn't have to stay of course but Blake's point is that it isn't currently equitable. The other way of doing it would be to have the fastest lap to be completed in a tyre use window, say on tyres over 10 laps old.

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Badgeronimous
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Re: Point for fastest lap / Fastest lap stats (merged)

Post by Badgeronimous »

shoot999 wrote:
Badgeronimous wrote:Fastest lap only works if the grids closer.

I generally find it an interesting concept, but the way F1 is just now sees it not working how it is supposed to.
Seems like giving a consolation prize to the fat kid who always comes last
At the moment yes, yes it does.

If it was implemented during the refuelling era - it could have been quite interesting.

As said I don't mind the point for fastest lap, but it isn't working like how it was supposed to work. Anyone with a 30 second gap will try for it and nearly always the last running of the big 3 (minus Gasly) will have a gap big enough.

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tootsie323
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Re: Point for fastest lap / Fastest lap stats (merged)

Post by tootsie323 »

sandman1347 wrote:
JN23 wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Blake wrote: I wasn't in favor of a point for fastest lap, but since they do have it,I think that ANY driver should be able to go for it. The idea that only a driver in the Top ten, or close "to your actual competition" is the farce as I see it. That one point could mean a hell of a lot to a team all up and down the grid...Perhaps even more for the lower tier of teams than the leaders.
I think I agree here, it shouldn't be restricted to top 10 drivers, I wonder if it should go to driver of the day to recognise up and coming talent. That way you reward drivers skills rather than manufacturers resources. I'm not sure it is working.
Who decides who is driver of the day? The public vote one at the moment can be a bit of a joke at times tbh.
In the age of the internet, public voting has become very unreliable.
If we're talking about rigging votes, Kyvatt would win every time...
Where I'm going, I don't need roads

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