Point for fastest lap / Fastest lap stats (merged)

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Exediron
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Exediron »

While points for the fastest lap has an undeniable place in F1 history, I personally feel that it would add nothing to the modern championship.

That said, I'm not particularly bothered by it, either.
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Herb »

Asphalt_World wrote:Point for fastest pit stop next?
William's might score a point or two!

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by wolfticket »

Lt. Drebin wrote:
wolfticket wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:Like it or not, F1 is a traditional sport. Point for a fastest lap is not a part of the tradition. Then, many other things today are not any more traditional, so I would not be surprised if they push it, but please, no.
Tradition in F1 is a movable feast, traditionally: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_F ... ng_systems
Ten years after starating, F1 settled for 9-6-4-3-2-1, which was, with a slight change present 1960-2002.
I think differing numbers of race results counting at the end of the season is a substantially bigger difference than a point for fastest lap.
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Jezza13 »

A week before the start of the season and they roll out this little gem? Is that really the best idea they could come up with given the resources at Brawns disposal?

It's not even going to be beneficial to the teams as it seems the point will only go the the driver. There won't be a point awarded in the CC for fastest lap. For me it's a gimmick & a totally pointless move.

I'd hate to see a championship decided because one team uses the rule to manipulate 1 driver into assisting another driver. Can you imagine the uproar if TR pitted a driver with 3 laps to go to wack on a set of softs , turn the engine right up and slam in a fastest lap to help a RB driver win the championship? Sure it's a long shot but the fact remains it IS a possibility..

What's the reasoning behind it & what is the goal of it's implementation? If they were going to start awarding points for bits & pieces, the logical starting point, for me anyway, would be additional points for poll position.

Come to think of it, imagine if they started awarding points depending on where you started on the grid. 10 points for poll position down to 1 point for 10th. That'd be an interesting little experiment & at least more logical than this rot.

It's not as bad as the last round 2 x points rule but it's up there.
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

Jezza13 wrote:A week before the start of the season and they roll out this little gem? Is that really the best idea they could come up with given the resources at Brawns disposal?

It's not even going to be beneficial to the teams as it seems the point will only go the the driver. There won't be a point awarded in the CC for fastest lap. For me it's a gimmick & a totally pointless move.

What's the reasoning behind it & what is the goal of it's implementation? If they were going to start awarding points for bits & pieces, the logical starting point, for me anyway, would be additional points for poll position.

Come to think of it, imagine if they started awarding points depending on where you started on the grid. 10 points for poll position down to 1 point for 10th. That'd be an interesting little experiment.
I think the intention is to stop the drivers just going into coast mode after a certain point in the race when they're not going to be challenged for position. I could see it working every now and again and giving us a little more action towards the end of the race, certainly won't give us less.

It only being 1 point means there won't ever be a time when pitting and losing track position would be more beneficial, so it shouldn't ever result in something that looks silly.

I accept the point that the fastest lap doesn't necessarily have any bearing on the race result and therefore it shouldn't be rewarded, but I don't see that as a problem personally since it's still rewarding drivers for how fast they can go around the track, not something arbitrary.

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by pokerman »

wolfticket wrote:Any bets on the first driver to bin it from a good finishing position going for the fastest lap late on?
I remember Hamilton binning it in Monza 2009 with just a couple of laps to go, the year of the silver donkey, McLaren had finally got the car competitive and Hamilton was running in third just behind the two Brawns, he decided that third wasn't good enough and he wanted to win the race, he set the fastest lap of the race and then the very next lap he crashed.
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by pokerman »

JN23 wrote:The bit I'm a bit unsure on is if someone who finishes out of the points or DNFs gets fastest lap, does that mean no one gets the fastest lap point or does the fastest lap from one of the top ten get the point?

It feels gimmicky but with the current points system very unlikely to decide either of the championships.
You have to finish in the top 10 to get the fastest lap point so you might get the point without even setting the fastest lap.
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by pokerman »

JN23 wrote:Unlikely scenario in Abu Dhabi...

Driver A is leading the race with 5 laps to go and currently has the fastest lap, giving them the title by a single point over driver B.

Driver B's team ask his teammate to pit, put him on the soft tyre and tell him to go out and do his best to set fastest lap, thus taking the fastest lap point away from driver A. Driver A & B then finish on equal points.

Driver B then wins the championship on count back.

I know this is a very extreme example, but I'm not sure that's how I would really want to see a championship decided.
Meanwhile Liberty Media will think it's great entertainment.
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Tufty »

pokerman wrote:
JN23 wrote:The bit I'm a bit unsure on is if someone who finishes out of the points or DNFs gets fastest lap, does that mean no one gets the fastest lap point or does the fastest lap from one of the top ten get the point?

It feels gimmicky but with the current points system very unlikely to decide either of the championships.
You have to finish in the top 10 to get the fastest lap point so you might get the point without even setting the fastest lap.
I think if 11th-20th has the fastest lap the point just isn't awarded, but I may have misunderstood. If it's done like in F2 then that would be more consistent.

I have to admit a driver bonus for FL and a team bonus for fastest stop would be interesting. The latter could be a safety risk though.
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Laz_T800 »

I'm neutral on this.
I'd like to see what effect it has before making up my mind.
If it means the front runners trying a few qualifying style laps at the end of the race, it may spice things up a bit?

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by pokerman »

Tufty wrote:
pokerman wrote:
JN23 wrote:The bit I'm a bit unsure on is if someone who finishes out of the points or DNFs gets fastest lap, does that mean no one gets the fastest lap point or does the fastest lap from one of the top ten get the point?

It feels gimmicky but with the current points system very unlikely to decide either of the championships.
You have to finish in the top 10 to get the fastest lap point so you might get the point without even setting the fastest lap.
I think if 11th-20th has the fastest lap the point just isn't awarded, but I may have misunderstood. If it's done like in F2 then that would be more consistent.

I have to admit a driver bonus for FL and a team bonus for fastest stop would be interesting. The latter could be a safety risk though.
Fair enough I guess it would be strange to get a point for fastest lap when you actually didn't get it?
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by pokerman »

Laz_T800 wrote:I'm neutral on this.
I'd like to see what effect it has before making up my mind.
If it means the front runners trying a few qualifying style laps at the end of the race, it may spice things up a bit?
Sometimes they do it anyway, I've seen Vettel trying to get the fastest lap quite a few times as I think he likes improving his stats, Hamilton a few times did the same last season, the main difference might be the commentators trying to make it exciting over who is going to get the bonus point?
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by tim3003 »

Herb wrote:I don't think I care too much one way or the other about this.

Maybe it'll add some interest to the end of races? Maybe not.

Are Merc and Ferrari just gonna sweep them all though?
I agree. Ok, a pt here or there could just about affect the championship result, but so could any change to the existing pts scoring. And who says that is perfect now? Any pts system is really arbitrary and open to question.

Looking at 2018: Merc had 10 (Bottas 7, Hamilton 3), Ferrari 4 (Vettel 3, Raikonnen 1), Red Bull 6 (Ricciardo 4, Verstappen 2), Haas 1 (Magnussen).

Had there been 1pt available last year I bet Bottas wouldnt have got 7..
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by pokerman »

tim3003 wrote:
Herb wrote:I don't think I care too much one way or the other about this.

Maybe it'll add some interest to the end of races? Maybe not.

Are Merc and Ferrari just gonna sweep them all though?
I agree. Ok, a pt here or there could just about affect the championship result, but so could any change to the existing pts scoring. And who says that is perfect now? Any pts system is really arbitrary and open to question.

Looking at 2018: Merc had 10 (Bottas 7, Hamilton 3), Ferrari 4 (Vettel 3, Raikonnen 1), Red Bull 6 (Ricciardo 4, Verstappen 2), Haas 1 (Magnussen).

Had there been 1pt available last year I bet Bottas wouldnt have got 7..
Yes someone else also pointed this out, if you start giving a reward for something then what happened in the past might be different.
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Charles LeBrad »

I’m a fan of this. I think I’ve championed this in the past.
Would anyone hazard a guess as to how this would have impacted 07 and 08 titles?

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Asphalt_World »

Charles LeBrad wrote:I’m a fan of this. I think I’ve championed this in the past.
Would anyone hazard a guess as to how this would have impacted 07 and 08 titles?
I don't think you can sensibly look back at past seasons to see how it may have changed the championship standings. In previous years, the drivers were not thinking about trying to get a late extra point during races so it's totally irrelevant. This year, we will be seeing drivers actively going for it where possible.
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by JN23 »

Charles LeBrad wrote:I’m a fan of this. I think I’ve championed this in the past.
Would anyone hazard a guess as to how this would have impacted 07 and 08 titles?
2007 - Kimi remains champion

Kimi - 110 + 6 fastest laps = 116
Alonso - 109 + 3 fastest laps = 112
Hamilton - 109 + 2 fastest laps = 111

2008 - Massa is champion

Hamilton 98 + 1 fastest lap = 99
Massa 97 + 3 fastest laps = 100

I do however agree with what a few others have said in that thinking would have been different if the point was on offer back then

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Fiki »

JN23 wrote:
Charles LeBrad wrote:I’m a fan of this. I think I’ve championed this in the past.
Would anyone hazard a guess as to how this would have impacted 07 and 08 titles?
2007 - Kimi remains champion

Kimi - 110 + 6 fastest laps = 116
Alonso - 109 + 3 fastest laps = 112
Hamilton - 109 + 2 fastest laps = 111

2008 - Massa is champion

Hamilton 98 + 1 fastest lap = 99
Massa 97 + 3 fastest laps = 100

I do however agree with what a few others have said in that thinking would have been different if the point was on offer back then
Futile, but intriguing nevertheless, especially the ranking for 2007.
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by F1_Ernie »

I knew rubbish like this would eventually get introduced, puts me of the sport more than anything
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by P-F1 Mod »

It's worth noting that this is one of the few recent changes that actually goes BACK to the roots of the sport rather than changing to something entirely new. Not trying to change opinions here, just worth noting.

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by wolfticket »

Asphalt_World wrote:
Charles LeBrad wrote:I’m a fan of this. I think I’ve championed this in the past.
Would anyone hazard a guess as to how this would have impacted 07 and 08 titles?
I don't think you can sensibly look back at past seasons to see how it may have changed the championship standings. In previous years, the drivers were not thinking about trying to get a late extra point during races so it's totally irrelevant. This year, we will be seeing drivers actively going for it where possible.
I think this is important to note.
Whether you like it or not at least it's not totally arbitrary so teams/drivers can actively chase the extra point and weigh up risk reward. For me the reason double points in the last race was sooo bad was that you could pretty tell exactly what the result would be with or without it. It was just an arbitrary bonus because of the when a given result happened to fall in the season. That at least isn't the case here.
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Exediron »

P-F1 Mod wrote:It's worth noting that this is one of the few recent changes that actually goes BACK to the roots of the sport rather than changing to something entirely new. Not trying to change opinions here, just worth noting.
Yeah, I pointed that out as well. Everyone who's saying this is a joke rule and has no place in F1 should probably take a close look at the original scoring system in F1...

That said, in the grand old days of F1 a fastest lap meant a lot more than it does now. Races were longer, reliability was far worse, and having driven the fastest lap stood as a testament to the speed of which a driver was capable even if they (quite likely) didn't see the checkered flag. Now we have qualifying as the perfect representation of how fast a driver (and car) is, and fastest race laps mean very little for the speed of the driver.
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by spacejock »

Herb wrote:I don't think I care too much one way or the other about this.

Maybe it'll add some interest to the end of races? Maybe not.

Are Merc and Ferrari just gonna sweep them all though?

Imagine two or three drivers at the end of the race all putting in fastest lap after fastest lap. Drivers who are not going to get on the podium.

One of them tries too hard and spins out, or shreds his tyres, or runs out of fuel. Safety car even.

Will definitely add interest.

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Sutton »

I can't decide yet if I like this or hate it.
Why not a point for pole position then?

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Siao7 »

Sutton wrote:I can't decide yet if I like this or hate it.
Why not a point for pole position then?
People have argued that getting pole is enough of an advantage. An I agree with that view.

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Johnson »

A point is a pittance in this points system anyway. Back when it was 10 for a win, it would have been a substaintial price but 1 single point when a win is 25 is tiny.

Some say they wouldn't want the championship to be decided on saturday, but that would only occur because the additional point for fastest lap allowed the championship race to go on an additional race, otherwise the title would have been decided the previous race as the driver would be 26 points behind.

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by stevey »

I'd much rather a points system for quali than for fastest lap.

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by pokerman »

P-F1 Mod wrote:It's worth noting that this is one of the few recent changes that actually goes BACK to the roots of the sport rather than changing to something entirely new. Not trying to change opinions here, just worth noting.
Also it actually doesn't make as big of a difference, back then it was only 9 points for a win.
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by pokerman »

spacejock wrote:
Herb wrote:I don't think I care too much one way or the other about this.

Maybe it'll add some interest to the end of races? Maybe not.

Are Merc and Ferrari just gonna sweep them all though?

Imagine two or three drivers at the end of the race all putting in fastest lap after fastest lap. Drivers who are not going to get on the podium.

One of them tries too hard and spins out, or shreds his tyres, or runs out of fuel. Safety car even.

Will definitely add interest.
So a driver let's say that is already sitting on 6 points crashes out whilst trying to gain one extra point, that sounds sensible.
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Zoue »

JN23 wrote:Unlikely scenario in Abu Dhabi...

Driver A is leading the race with 5 laps to go and currently has the fastest lap, giving them the title by a single point over driver B.

Driver B's team ask his teammate to pit, put him on the soft tyre and tell him to go out and do his best to set fastest lap, thus taking the fastest lap point away from driver A. Driver A & B then finish on equal points.

Driver B then wins the championship on count back.

I know this is a very extreme example, but I'm not sure that's how I would really want to see a championship decided.
I doubt it would work like that, though. The strategists would be all over it so if Driver B pits in the above scenario then it's a given that Driver A would also do so the following lap, maintaining the status quo and giving both a chance to create the tie-breaker. Also, a lot would have to happen to make the above work, not least that both lead cars would have to have a sufficient gap to the third placed car that pitting wouldn't compromise their ultimate finishing position. And in all honesty it's likely that if those conditions were met then the same sort of thing would have been happening throughout the season, so it wouldn't be last-race only deal that would distort the season.

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Zoue »

pokerman wrote:
spacejock wrote:
Herb wrote:I don't think I care too much one way or the other about this.

Maybe it'll add some interest to the end of races? Maybe not.

Are Merc and Ferrari just gonna sweep them all though?

Imagine two or three drivers at the end of the race all putting in fastest lap after fastest lap. Drivers who are not going to get on the podium.

One of them tries too hard and spins out, or shreds his tyres, or runs out of fuel. Safety car even.

Will definitely add interest.
So a driver let's say that is already sitting on 6 points crashes out whilst trying to gain one extra point, that sounds sensible.
That would be down to them, though, wouldn't it? I mean, drivers can't complain that pushing presents unnecessary risks! You'd hope that they were sufficiently talented that it shouldn't be a factor

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Covalent »

I'm ok with them giving it a go. Should make the final stints which sometimes are a bit...stagnant, a bit more interesting.

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Mercedes-Benz »

I remember last year Alonso wanted fresh tyres so that he have a go for the fastest lap, Mclaren refused it and Alonso was tiddled and said something like Mclaren lacks ambition. In a way fastest lap will probably be tried by some of the midfielder I think. Sadly I would say that fastest lap is irrelevant these days :-| May be have a point for pole position or top3 car in qualifying instead ?
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by JN23 »

Zoue wrote:
JN23 wrote:Unlikely scenario in Abu Dhabi...

Driver A is leading the race with 5 laps to go and currently has the fastest lap, giving them the title by a single point over driver B.

Driver B's team ask his teammate to pit, put him on the soft tyre and tell him to go out and do his best to set fastest lap, thus taking the fastest lap point away from driver A. Driver A & B then finish on equal points.

Driver B then wins the championship on count back.

I know this is a very extreme example, but I'm not sure that's how I would really want to see a championship decided.
I doubt it would work like that, though. The strategists would be all over it so if Driver B pits in the above scenario then it's a given that Driver A would also do so the following lap, maintaining the status quo and giving both a chance to create the tie-breaker. Also, a lot would have to happen to make the above work, not least that both lead cars would have to have a sufficient gap to the third placed car that pitting wouldn't compromise their ultimate finishing position. And in all honesty it's likely that if those conditions were met then the same sort of thing would have been happening throughout the season, so it wouldn't be last-race only deal that would distort the season.
I'm talking about the team mate of Driver B to pit, not either of the championship contenders themselves. I guess you'd then see the team mate of driver A pitting.

Either way, it was only a hypothetical and extreme example. Fair point about it happening before the final race.

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by olly-44 »

Asphalt_World wrote:Point for fastest pit stop next?

Point for the fastest formation lap :lol:
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Siao7 »

JN23 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
JN23 wrote:Unlikely scenario in Abu Dhabi...

Driver A is leading the race with 5 laps to go and currently has the fastest lap, giving them the title by a single point over driver B.

Driver B's team ask his teammate to pit, put him on the soft tyre and tell him to go out and do his best to set fastest lap, thus taking the fastest lap point away from driver A. Driver A & B then finish on equal points.

Driver B then wins the championship on count back.

I know this is a very extreme example, but I'm not sure that's how I would really want to see a championship decided.
I doubt it would work like that, though. The strategists would be all over it so if Driver B pits in the above scenario then it's a given that Driver A would also do so the following lap, maintaining the status quo and giving both a chance to create the tie-breaker. Also, a lot would have to happen to make the above work, not least that both lead cars would have to have a sufficient gap to the third placed car that pitting wouldn't compromise their ultimate finishing position. And in all honesty it's likely that if those conditions were met then the same sort of thing would have been happening throughout the season, so it wouldn't be last-race only deal that would distort the season.
I'm talking about the team mate of Driver B to pit, not either of the championship contenders themselves. I guess you'd then see the team mate of driver A pitting.

Either way, it was only a hypothetical and extreme example. Fair point about it happening before the final race.
I don't see this being much different to - say - the team mate of Driver B letting his team mate past while backing/blocking the other contender up for example. Essentially using the second driver to mess with the opponent. The idea is the same for me, I see little difference with your scenario.

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Harpo »

Well the smartest way to race is to drive as "slowly" as possible and yet win the race... With the mandatory specifications of gimmicky tyres we get nowadays, it means even less. As I wrote before, is a fastest lap in the penultimate or last lap signifant enough to deserve a bonus point ?
The paradox is that the powers in charge of the rules feel the need to add something to oblige the racing drivers to race in what is supposed to be the ultimate racing series, when they spent the last ten years adding gimmicks that prevent them to do their job correctly. If they really want to "spice the race", getting some of them going faster in the last 2 laps is just adding a drop of water in the sea. Then, why not add a bonus point to the attacking driver who finish the race with a gap of less 1 second from the driver in front, and a bonus point for the defending ones finishing with more than 3 seconds before their follower ? It's silly but at least it would "spice" more than the last 2 laps.

Guess what ? May be they should reward the drivers by giving them points, with a decreasing scale according to the finish place ?
As my brother said : "I've got the brain of a four year old. I'll bet he was glad to be rid of it".

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RustyRockets44
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Location: Montreal

Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by RustyRockets44 »

Harpo wrote:Well the smartest way to race is to drive as "slowly" as possible and yet win the race... With the mandatory specifications of gimmicky tyres we get nowadays, it means even less. As I wrote before, is a fastest lap in the penultimate or last lap signifant enough to deserve a bonus point ?
The paradox is that the powers in charge of the rules feel the need to add something to oblige the racing drivers to race in what is supposed to be the ultimate racing series, when they spent the last ten years adding gimmicks that prevent them to do their job correctly. If they really want to "spice the race", getting some of them going faster in the last 2 laps is just adding a drop of water in the sea. Then, why not add a bonus point to the attacking driver who finish the race with a gap of less 1 second from the driver in front, and a bonus point for the defending ones finishing with more than 3 seconds before their follower ? It's silly but at least it would "spice" more than the last 2 laps.

Guess what ? May be they should reward the drivers by giving them points, with a decreasing scale according to the finish place ?
Great points! I agree with the 1 point being a drop of water in the sea. My initial thought was who cares, it's 1 point it does not even matter. The fastest lap will just see a top 10 car where is his position not improved, will just save fuel tyres for one attacking lap when the pit wall finds him a gap. You'll see cars going for a slow sunday drive to open up a gap to the car in front.

Vettel Fan
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Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:40 am

Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Vettel Fan »

We'll see a lot of last lap pit stops from drivers languishing in the back in hopes of a point. Lame if you ask me.

JN23
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:14 am

Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by JN23 »

Vettel Fan wrote:We'll see a lot of last lap pit stops from drivers languishing in the back in hopes of a point. Lame if you ask me.
If you're languishing at the back you won't get the point anyway.

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