Point for fastest lap / Fastest lap stats (merged)

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pokerman
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Point for fastest lap / Fastest lap stats (merged)

Post by pokerman »

So a point for fastest lap is to be awarded this season, fastest laps that don't mean anything, it worries me that this is considered a worthwhile thing to do, what next?
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TheGiantHogweed
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

It looks like it is only for the top 10 positioned drivers that can get this bonus. The interesting thing is that Bottas would have finished 3rd in the championchip last year if this had applied last year. he got fastest lap 7 times, 6 of which were in the points.

Bottas: 253
Kimi: 252
Verstappen: 251

With these 3 drivers, it should how close things could be and how it can change results.

funkymonkey
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by funkymonkey »

pokerman wrote:So a point for fastest lap is to be awarded this season, fastest laps that don't mean anything, it worries me that this is considered a worthwhile thing to do, what next?
I literally facepalmed myself when I read the news. I mean really? Do you really want a championship decided on the fastest lap? This is very much a possibility now if top 2 teams are indeed running close towards the end of the season.
Someone running in 3rd to 5th place for example, far ahead of the midfield pack like we have seen in last 2 years can simply put for fresh tyre and set fastest lap towards the end. And we have seen these kind of gaps open up more in last 2 years where top 3 teams were running far ahead of the midfield pack to allow this.

This actually makes me mad.

pokerman
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by pokerman »

funkymonkey wrote:
pokerman wrote:So a point for fastest lap is to be awarded this season, fastest laps that don't mean anything, it worries me that this is considered a worthwhile thing to do, what next?
I literally facepalmed myself when I read the news. I mean really? Do you really want a championship decided on the fastest lap? This is very much a possibility now if top 2 teams are indeed running close towards the end of the season.
Someone running in 3rd to 5th place for example, far ahead of the midfield pack like we have seen in last 2 years can simply put for fresh tyre and set fastest lap towards the end. And we have seen these kind of gaps open up more in last 2 years where top 3 teams were running far ahead of the midfield pack to allow this.

This actually makes me mad.
Indeed is this part of Ross Brawn's vision for F1, very disappointing.
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AstoriaisBACK
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by AstoriaisBACK »

very poor form here. So Bottas is sitting in 5th place and is low of fuel turns up party mode for a point, same with Leclarc they do this for 20 gps and between them they take points away from the others trying to beat them over 21 Gps and 70 laps per GP or there abouts.
Totally a joke. Makes no sense other than to pad the points of the top qualifying teams.
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SteveW
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by SteveW »

IF they do this (and I'd prefer them not to!) it should be open to ALL cars on the grid and not just the top ten in my opinion.

At least it might give the midfield teams, or a top team's driver who finds himself out of the points due to incidents in the race or qualifying, something to fight for towards the end of the GP?

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Lojik »

Like most others here it seems, I really do not like this idea at all.

pokerman
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by pokerman »

SteveW wrote:IF they do this (and I'd prefer them not to!) it should be open to ALL cars on the grid and not just the top ten in my opinion.

At least it might give the midfield teams, or a top team's driver who finds himself out of the points due to incidents in the race or qualifying, something to fight for towards the end of the GP?
This is the system they use in the lower classes, they don't want drivers out of the points pitting to do qualifying laps, they basically want the point to go to genuine championship contenders.
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SteveW
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by SteveW »

pokerman wrote:
SteveW wrote:IF they do this (and I'd prefer them not to!) it should be open to ALL cars on the grid and not just the top ten in my opinion.

At least it might give the midfield teams, or a top team's driver who finds himself out of the points due to incidents in the race or qualifying, something to fight for towards the end of the GP?
This is the system they use in the lower classes, they don't want drivers out of the points pitting to do qualifying laps, they basically want the point to go to genuine championship contenders.
I don't really understand the logic in that.

I don't understand the logic in it full stop to be perfectly honest, but limiting it to only cars running in the points just seems even more stupid.

Let's face it, we should all know by now, if there's a stupid way to implement something you can bet your life that Formula One will choose that way!

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Fiki »

Oh dear. Did they really need Brawn to come up with that idea? 8O
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Siao7
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Siao7 »

I do not mind this. What's the big deal? They used to do this in the past as well. Recently we have seen DRS, push to pass buttons, even talks about artificial rain at some point. Every gimmick in the book. Awarding the one thing that F1 is supposed to be, i.e. fast, is not really a deal breaker for me.

Harpo
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Harpo »

That's really the way F1 works since too many years. First implement something stupid, then add another stupidity to fix the previous one.
My mother-in-law worked the same way...
As my brother said : "I've got the brain of a four year old. I'll bet he was glad to be rid of it".

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by kleefton »

It sort of rewards the guy who is not fast enough to keep up with the top pack but is under no threat from behind, so is able to pit and sets fastest lap. No i dont like it.

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Siao7 »

I seem to have the unpopular opinion here then!

May I ask what is the big deal? Setting the fastest lap for me means that the drivers will not sit back and nurse their cars at the last stages of the GP, but actually try to get fastest laps when the cars are lighter. If this is indeed the idea, then I have no issue with it. If they want to save their tyres to try a last lap surge, then great. If they want to go fast in the first part of the GP and get an extra pit at the end to try for the fastest lap, great again.

I truly can't see what the major issue is and I'm worried!

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by mikeyg123 »

Siao7 wrote:I seem to have the unpopular opinion here then!

May I ask what is the big deal? Setting the fastest lap for me means that the drivers will not sit back and nurse their cars at the last stages of the GP, but actually try to get fastest laps when the cars are lighter. If this is indeed the idea, then I have no issue with it. If they want to save their tyres to try a last lap surge, then great. If they want to go fast in the first part of the GP and get an extra pit at the end to try for the fastest lap, great again.

I truly can't see what the major issue is and I'm worried!

I agree it just seems like an extra point of interest to me. Really don't see the major downside.

sandman1347
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by sandman1347 »

I think it's stupid. The fastest lap does not carry any empirical significance. It should not have any influence on the championship.

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by mikeyg123 »

sandman1347 wrote:I think it's stupid. The fastest lap does not carry any empirical significance. It should not have any influence on the championship.
But by offering a point for it, it will do.

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

sandman1347 wrote:I think it's stupid. The fastest lap does not carry any empirical significance. It should not have any influence on the championship.
You could argue it doesn't carry any significance precisely because it doesn't influence the championship.

I'm not opposed personally, it's not artificial and it gives teams extra incentive (though not much) to go for an aggressive strategy, rather than a 1 stop and coast the tyres to the flag.

Can't see it having a big impact, apparently 2008 is the only instance in the last 20 years it would have changed, and arguably not since knowing there are points on offer could change the approach anyway. That said I would agree that it makes less sense these days than in the early to mid 2000's because of the tyres we have now.

Herb
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Herb »

I don't think I care too much one way or the other about this.

Maybe it'll add some interest to the end of races? Maybe not.

Are Merc and Ferrari just gonna sweep them all though?

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Harpo »

Black_Flag_11 wrote: I'm not opposed personally, it's not artificial and it gives teams extra incentive (though not much) to go for an aggressive strategy, rather than a 1 stop and coast the tyres to the flag.
Talk of an aggressive strategy... We'll see the drivers of the top 2 or 3 fastest teams going for the bonus point in the penulimate and last lap. And that's all.
We already see it, with no bonus point on offer, and most of us think it's just vain. Offering a bonus point at each race to one of 6 drivers would make it less vain ? Really ?
As my brother said : "I've got the brain of a four year old. I'll bet he was glad to be rid of it".

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by wolfticket »

I prefer it to double points for the last race...
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Covalent »

pokerman wrote:So a point for fastest lap is to be awarded this season, fastest laps that don't mean anything, it worries me that this is considered a worthwhile thing to do, what next?
Fastest lap will mean something if they award a point for it.
Finishing 7th wouldn't mean anything either if they didn't award points for it...

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Siao7 »

Harpo wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote: I'm not opposed personally, it's not artificial and it gives teams extra incentive (though not much) to go for an aggressive strategy, rather than a 1 stop and coast the tyres to the flag.
Talk of an aggressive strategy... We'll see the drivers of the top 2 or 3 fastest teams going for the bonus point in the penulimate and last lap. And that's all.
We already see it, with no bonus point on offer, and most of us think it's just vain. Offering a bonus point at each race to one of 6 drivers would make it less vain ? Really ?
Last year a Haas had the fastest lap in the Singapore GP I think. 2017 a FI got one. 2016 a TR and a McLaren got one. 2014 Williams had it twice (once with Bottas!).

I agree that the vast majority will be the top 3. But that was without the incentive of the point

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by sandman1347 »

Black_Flag_11 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:I think it's stupid. The fastest lap does not carry any empirical significance. It should not have any influence on the championship.
You could argue it doesn't carry any significance precisely because it doesn't influence the championship.

I'm not opposed personally, it's not artificial and it gives teams extra incentive (though not much) to go for an aggressive strategy, rather than a 1 stop and coast the tyres to the flag.

Can't see it having a big impact, apparently 2008 is the only instance in the last 20 years it would have changed, and arguably not since knowing there are points on offer could change the approach anyway. That said I would agree that it makes less sense these days than in the early to mid 2000's because of the tyres we have now.
That, for me, would be a manufactured significance and not an empirical significance. The purpose of racing is to try to complete the race distance ahead of your competitors. With that established, awarding points based on finishing position is empirically sensible. Awarding points based on the fastest individual lap in a race is nonsensical IMO as setting the fastest individual lap does not necessarily contribute towards the overall purpose of finishing the race distance ahead of your competitors. It would make more sense to award a point for pole position as setting the fastest lap time is exactly the empirical purpose of qualifying and contributes directly towards the overall goal of finishing the race ahead of your competitors by ensuring that you start the race ahead of your competitors.

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Harpo »

Siao7 wrote:
Harpo wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote: I'm not opposed personally, it's not artificial and it gives teams extra incentive (though not much) to go for an aggressive strategy, rather than a 1 stop and coast the tyres to the flag.
Talk of an aggressive strategy... We'll see the drivers of the top 2 or 3 fastest teams going for the bonus point in the penulimate and last lap. And that's all.
We already see it, with no bonus point on offer, and most of us think it's just vain. Offering a bonus point at each race to one of 6 drivers would make it less vain ? Really ?
Last year a Haas had the fastest lap in the Singapore GP I think. 2017 a FI got one. 2016 a TR and a McLaren got one. 2014 Williams had it twice (once with Bottas!).

I agree that the vast majority will be the top 3. But that was without the incentive of the point
When I said "we already see it...", I was refering to drivers going for the fastest lap at the penultimate or last lap. Offer a point for it and only 6 drivers, if not only 4 (or 2 the wonderful years we get one dominant car) will share the annual bonus allocation.
As my brother said : "I've got the brain of a four year old. I'll bet he was glad to be rid of it".

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Siao7 »

Harpo wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Harpo wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote: I'm not opposed personally, it's not artificial and it gives teams extra incentive (though not much) to go for an aggressive strategy, rather than a 1 stop and coast the tyres to the flag.
Talk of an aggressive strategy... We'll see the drivers of the top 2 or 3 fastest teams going for the bonus point in the penulimate and last lap. And that's all.
We already see it, with no bonus point on offer, and most of us think it's just vain. Offering a bonus point at each race to one of 6 drivers would make it less vain ? Really ?
Last year a Haas had the fastest lap in the Singapore GP I think. 2017 a FI got one. 2016 a TR and a McLaren got one. 2014 Williams had it twice (once with Bottas!).

I agree that the vast majority will be the top 3. But that was without the incentive of the point
When I said "we already see it...", I was refering to drivers going for the fastest lap at the penultimate or last lap. Offer a point for it and only 6 drivers, if not only 4 (or 2 the wonderful years we get one dominant car) will share the annual bonus allocation.
I see. I am not sure we can definitely say that only the top 3 will get it, it will depend on the strategy I guess. Why not try it before we dismiss it?

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by sandman1347 »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:It looks like it is only for the top 10 positioned drivers that can get this bonus. The interesting thing is that Bottas would have finished 3rd in the championchip last year if this had applied last year. he got fastest lap 7 times, 6 of which were in the points.

Bottas: 253
Kimi: 252
Verstappen: 251

With these 3 drivers, it should how close things could be and how it can change results.
Not really. These results cannot simply be copy-pasted into a completely different scenario. If the points system were different then the approach to setting the fastest lap would be different and, by extension, the results would also be different.

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by pokerman »

SteveW wrote:
pokerman wrote:
SteveW wrote:IF they do this (and I'd prefer them not to!) it should be open to ALL cars on the grid and not just the top ten in my opinion.

At least it might give the midfield teams, or a top team's driver who finds himself out of the points due to incidents in the race or qualifying, something to fight for towards the end of the GP?
This is the system they use in the lower classes, they don't want drivers out of the points pitting to do qualifying laps, they basically want the point to go to genuine championship contenders.
I don't really understand the logic in that.

I don't understand the logic in it full stop to be perfectly honest, but limiting it to only cars running in the points just seems even more stupid.

Let's face it, we should all know by now, if there's a stupid way to implement something you can bet your life that Formula One will choose that way!
I understand wanting to avoid the farcical situation of multiple cars pitting late in the race trying to set fastest lap and what if one of these cars comes across any of the leaders, do we get a Verstappen/Ocon type incident?

But yes a point for fastest lap do they really think this is something that's going to improve the spectacle as the drivers chase for fastest lap because they perhaps view the racing as being too boring?
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pokerman
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by pokerman »

Fiki wrote:Oh dear. Did they really need Brawn to come up with that idea? 8O
Has Brawn been any better than Bernie given the think tank ideas we get to hear about?
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pokerman
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by pokerman »

wolfticket wrote:I prefer it to double points for the last race...
Well I wouldn't disagree with that.
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pokerman
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by pokerman »

Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:So a point for fastest lap is to be awarded this season, fastest laps that don't mean anything, it worries me that this is considered a worthwhile thing to do, what next?
Fastest lap will mean something if they award a point for it.
Finishing 7th wouldn't mean anything either if they didn't award points for it...
Hmmm that's sort of got me thinking now.
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wolfticket
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by wolfticket »

Any bets on the first driver to bin it from a good finishing position going for the fastest lap late on?
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Lt. Drebin »

Like it or not, F1 is a traditional sport. Point for a fastest lap is not a part of the tradition. Then, many other things today are not any more traditional, so I would not be surprised if they push it, but please, no.
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wolfticket
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by wolfticket »

Lt. Drebin wrote:Like it or not, F1 is a traditional sport. Point for a fastest lap is not a part of the tradition. Then, many other things today are not any more traditional, so I would not be surprised if they push it, but please, no.
Tradition in F1 is a movable feast, traditionally: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_F ... ng_systems
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by JN23 »

The bit I'm a bit unsure on is if someone who finishes out of the points or DNFs gets fastest lap, does that mean no one gets the fastest lap point or does the fastest lap from one of the top ten get the point?

It feels gimmicky but with the current points system very unlikely to decide either of the championships.

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by JN23 »

Unlikely scenario in Abu Dhabi...

Driver A is leading the race with 5 laps to go and currently has the fastest lap, giving them the title by a single point over driver B.

Driver B's team ask his teammate to pit, put him on the soft tyre and tell him to go out and do his best to set fastest lap, thus taking the fastest lap point away from driver A. Driver A & B then finish on equal points.

Driver B then wins the championship on count back.

I know this is a very extreme example, but I'm not sure that's how I would really want to see a championship decided.

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by JN23 »

wolfticket wrote:Any bets on the first driver to bin it from a good finishing position going for the fastest lap late on?
Max? :lol:

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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by DOLOMITE »

Nope. No. No....No. Just...no.

The sole purpose of the race should be to finish as high as possible. That's it.

I've never seen a poll where people have been in favour of this.. Until I saw the one pf1 today oddly.
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Lt. Drebin »

wolfticket wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:Like it or not, F1 is a traditional sport. Point for a fastest lap is not a part of the tradition. Then, many other things today are not any more traditional, so I would not be surprised if they push it, but please, no.
Tradition in F1 is a movable feast, traditionally: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_F ... ng_systems
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Re: Point for fastest lap

Post by Asphalt_World »

Point for fastest pit stop next?
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