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Not sure if this exists yet so I figured I would create a thread for the new Ferrari driver. He's probably my favorite young driver out there (young defined as under 25). I would say that Ferrari have done a good job of taking the pressure off of Leclerc going into his first year with the team. They have already basically designated him as #2. No one will blame him if Vettel beats him soundly.

That said, I see another 2007 in the making for this year. I think Vettel/Leclerc will be the story of the year. The two of them will be competing (whether Ferrari likes it or not). I think Charles has a chance to best Vettel in 2019. In fact I'm tempted to predict it. The smart money is definitely on Vettel but this kid has tremendous ability and I just have a gut feeling that he is the superior talent of the two. The notion that it will take a couple of years for him to get up to speed is one that I find dubious. If he's better than Vettel, it won't take a couple of years for that to show. We'll see it right away.

From the looks of things, Ferrari have a very special car this year. Charles will actually have a chance to win a championship. I somehow doubt that will come off but my gut tells me this might be 2007 all over again with the Ferrari drivers taking the place of Hamilton and Alonso and perhaps Hamilton taking the place of Raikkonen; benefiting from the two of them taking points off of each other.

I'll wait for testing to end before making any big predictions, but nonetheless I'll go ahead and say that Leclerc will win GP in 2019.

Invade wrote:I'll wait for testing to end before making any big predictions, but nonetheless I'll go ahead and say that Leclerc will win GP in 2019.

Not a particularly bold prediction. I think he will win races and set pole positions this year. The question is; will he be in the title fight or will he be a wingman?

sandman1347 wrote:

Invade wrote:I'll wait for testing to end before making any big predictions, but nonetheless I'll go ahead and say that Leclerc will win GP in 2019.

Not a particularly bold prediction. I think he will win races and set pole positions this year. The question is; will he be in the title fight or will he be a wingman?

Well, I'm quite confident Vettel will win the battle in 2019. Will Leclerc be close? In pure performance he'll be comparable, especially as the season develops. But Vettel is Ferrari's "guide" (Binotto). Therefore, he'll be a wingman, whether overtly or by surreptitious force. He can upend this prediction by being clearly superior to Vettel in performance, but I find that doubtful.

Invade wrote:

sandman1347 wrote:

Invade wrote:I'll wait for testing to end before making any big predictions, but nonetheless I'll go ahead and say that Leclerc will win GP in 2019.

Not a particularly bold prediction. I think he will win races and set pole positions this year. The question is; will he be in the title fight or will he be a wingman?

Well, I'm quite confident Vettel will win the battle in 2019. Will Leclerc be close? In pure performance he'll be comparable, especially as the season develops. But Vettel is Ferrari's "guide" (Binotto). Therefore, he'll be a wingman, whether overtly or by surreptitious force. He can upend this prediction by being clearly superior to Vettel in performance, but I find that doubtful.

Think back to 2007. Alonso was signed by McLaren to replace Raikkonen. He had the huge contract, the 2 WDCs, etc. They gave him #1 status to start the year (lightest fuel load in qualifying, pit-stop preference, etc.). But the bottom line was that Hamilton was too good for that to last and Hamilton was an outright rookie. Leclerc already has a year under his belt. I can't think of one example of a driver outside of his rookie year who needs time to get up to speed relative to another driver. If Charles is better than Seb, he'll be better than him in 2019.

Agree that his out and out pace should be evident from the off if it is there, but the consistency of performance and decision making under pressure in those key race moments is where you would expect him to struggle or at least not be on the same level as the top drivers immediately (look no further than Verstappen), and make it hard to mount a title challenge. He really needs to be solid but unspectacular from the start to set up a platform to push on from, but Hamilton's consistency in the first half of 2007, considering the level of the competition is remarkable. Leclerc is saying the right things though.

Thing is, Vettel has been in the team for years, been in F1 for years, and he is no Lewis Hamilton. What I mean by that is that I believe he values the need to be the top dog in a team a lot more than Lewis, he knows all the ins and outs of the team, has a car that has been developped with his feedback for years and he will seek that top dog status from day 1 imo. Whether it is with obtaining priority with development parts, hiding setup tricks, whatever you want to think about, I believe he will do it. So Leclerc in his first year has an immense mountain to climb in my opinion, because I don't believe Vettel is going to help him at all. It is kind of similar to when Sainz joined Renault and everyone thought he was going to crush Hulk, but Hulk beat him pretty comfortably. If Leclerc manages to beat Vettel this year it would be a huge upset and I will be utterly surprised, it will also show that he is already a much better driver than Vettel, which I don't think he is yet.

sandman1347 wrote:I can't think of one example of a driver outside of his rookie year who needs time to get up to speed relative to another driver. If Charles is better than Seb, he'll be better than him in 2019.

Arguably Verstappen. He was pretty much equal on speed with Ricciardo in 2016, his second year in the sport. Then he got better in 2017, and better again in 2018. There's a big difference between how Max looked vs. Ricciardo in 2016 compared to 2018. The only 'X' factor is how much of that is down to team politics and the alleged preferential treatment Max received in more recent years.

Exediron wrote:

sandman1347 wrote:I can't think of one example of a driver outside of his rookie year who needs time to get up to speed relative to another driver. If Charles is better than Seb, he'll be better than him in 2019.

Arguably Verstappen. He was pretty much equal on speed with Ricciardo in 2016, his second year in the sport. Then he got better in 2017, and better again in 2018. There's a big difference between how Max looked vs. Ricciardo in 2016 compared to 2018. The only 'X' factor is how much of that is down to team politics and the alleged preferential treatment Max received in more recent years.

That is a good example but it's also an example of someone who got into F1 before he was even an adult. I think such an extreme can safely be considered the exception and not the rule. if you're literally talking about a teenager then you're dealing with someone who is still improving in every area (including outright pace) and improving substantially. Leclerc will be quicker this year than he was last year and perhaps even quicker in 2020 but he's much closer to the end of his curve in terms of raw pace than Max was at 18.

sandman1347 wrote:

Exediron wrote:

sandman1347 wrote:I can't think of one example of a driver outside of his rookie year who needs time to get up to speed relative to another driver. If Charles is better than Seb, he'll be better than him in 2019.

Arguably Verstappen. He was pretty much equal on speed with Ricciardo in 2016, his second year in the sport. Then he got better in 2017, and better again in 2018. There's a big difference between how Max looked vs. Ricciardo in 2016 compared to 2018. The only 'X' factor is how much of that is down to team politics and the alleged preferential treatment Max received in more recent years.

That is a good example but it's also an example of someone who got into F1 before he was even an adult. I think such an extreme can safely be considered the exception and not the rule. if you're literally talking about a teenager then you're dealing with someone who is still improving in every area (including outright pace) and improving substantially. Leclerc will be quicker this year than he was last year and perhaps even quicker in 2020 but he's much closer to the end of his curve in terms of raw pace than Max was at 18.

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree. Keep in mind, though, that even while Leclerc isn't coming to Ferrari at 18, he is still quite young. He's younger than Hamilton was when he joined McLaren, or Vettel when he joined Red Bull. It's easy to forget that 21 is actually quite young when we've got drivers coming in at 17 or 18!

kleefton wrote:Thing is, Vettel has been in the team for years, been in F1 for years, and he is no Lewis Hamilton. What I mean by that is that I believe he values the need to be the top dog in a team a lot more than Lewis, he knows all the ins and outs of the team, has a car that has been developped with his feedback for years and he will seek that top dog status from day 1 imo. Whether it is with obtaining priority with development parts, hiding setup tricks, whatever you want to think about, I believe he will do it. So Leclerc in his first year has an immense mountain to climb in my opinion, because I don't believe Vettel is going to help him at all. It is kind of similar to when Sainz joined Renault and everyone thought he was going to crush Hulk, but Hulk beat him pretty comfortably. If Leclerc manages to beat Vettel this year it would be a huge upset and I will be utterly surprised, it will also show that he is already a much better driver than Vettel, which I don't think he is yet.

Agree with this more than any other posts. I think many are being a bit too optimistic. He almost always did beat Ericsson but there were times where Ericsson clearly got the better of him and that was the first few races and in the wet. And I would rate Ericsson about 15th or 16th on the grid last year.

Leclerc is going to be against Vettel who will be in his 5th year with Ferrari. That will be very tough to start with. For the first half of the season, I don't expect him to be any closer than Kimi was really. Ferrari are much stricter than Mercedes, so I think he's going to have as hard time with Ferrari letting him beat Vettel (if Vettel is ahead in championship points) even at races where Vettel isn't doing so well.

I could be proven wrong though and Maybe Leclerc will surprise instantly, but I doubt it.

Some inter team rivalry is always good, to push each other.

Binotto has gone on record to say that they will surely back Vettel in the beginning of the year, which is the safe bet obviously. But if Leclerc performs he will be treated similarly. Fair enough, you can't put all your eggs in the - let's be honest - unknown basket in the team. If the tests are an indication, then he will do quite well and push Vettel a lot. As long as they keep it from going sour, it should be a good year for Leclerc in a top car.

I love that the first page of the Leclerc thread will forever be a Hamilton debate, sums up this forum

I hate to ask but could one of the mods take the tangential thread out and maybe create a different one when you have a chance? It shouldn't be in this thread.

I think I got the worst offending posts.

Quite frankly you should all know better, a driver's official thread is not the place to discuss Hamilton v Vettel.

PS. Please report this kind of thing, it'll attract a mod's attention quicker.

Mod Blue wrote:I think I got the worst offending posts.

Quite frankly you should all know better, a driver's official thread is not the place to discuss Hamilton v Vettel.

Every thread is a place to discuss Hamilton v Vettel.

I appreciate that if Leclerc is good enough he'll be fast and challenge from the off, but I expect him to still grow at quite the rate in 2019 as he fast-tracks himself toward his "prime" or top speed or whatever you wanna call it. I dunno. I'm used to watching guys in sports gradually get better, and even if they do breakthrough in a huge way, there's still a period of time where they mature and fully polish their game. I expect Leclerc to do a lot of that polishing this season.

Mod Blue wrote:I think I got the worst offending posts.

Quite frankly you should all know better, a driver's official thread is not the place to discuss Hamilton v Vettel.

PS. Please report this kind of thing, it'll attract a mod's attention quicker.

Can I actually report myself? Kidding, thanks for separating them.

Invade wrote:I appreciate that if Leclerc is good enough he'll be fast and challenge from the off, but I expect him to still grow at quite the rate in 2019 as he fast-tracks himself toward his "prime" or top speed or whatever you wanna call it. I dunno. I'm used to watching guys in sports gradually get better, and even if they do breakthrough in a huge way, there's still a period of time where they mature and fully polish their game. I expect Leclerc to do a lot of that polishing this season.

In terms of polish, I agree. Drivers continue to improve often for many years; generally peaking either in their late 20s or early 30s. In terms of raw pace though, it's usually by their 2nd or 3rd season in F1. Perhaps some of the youngest guys who break into F1 as teenagers might have an extra year or two of speed improvement but raw pace isn't really the area where drivers improve continuously. It's more decision making, working with the team, strategic thinking, etc.

sandman1347 wrote:

Mod Blue wrote:I think I got the worst offending posts.

Quite frankly you should all know better, a driver's official thread is not the place to discuss Hamilton v Vettel.

PS. Please report this kind of thing, it'll attract a mod's attention quicker.

Can I actually report myself? Kidding, thanks for separating them.

Yeah, I'd offer myself up for that too.

Maybe we can report each other!


Thank you mods

sandman1347 wrote:

Invade wrote:I appreciate that if Leclerc is good enough he'll be fast and challenge from the off, but I expect him to still grow at quite the rate in 2019 as he fast-tracks himself toward his "prime" or top speed or whatever you wanna call it. I dunno. I'm used to watching guys in sports gradually get better, and even if they do breakthrough in a huge way, there's still a period of time where they mature and fully polish their game. I expect Leclerc to do a lot of that polishing this season.

In terms of polish, I agree. Drivers continue to improve often for many years; generally peaking either in their late 20s or early 30s. In terms of raw pace though, it's usually by their 2nd or 3rd season in F1. Perhaps some of the youngest guys who break into F1 as teenagers might have an extra year or two of speed improvement but raw pace isn't really the area where drivers improve continuously. It's more decision making, working with the team, strategic thinking, etc.

Thank you, this is what I was trying to say in another thread before, when I said that he can learn a lot from the other more experienced driver, especially with the attention to detail and focus of a high calibre driver being next to him (although Seb's last year may have been one to forget!). You just made it sound so much better!

So far this season is looking promising. Gut-wrenching Mechanical failure there at the end in Bahrain but there's no doubt that he's laid down his marker. As predicted, this is the teammate battle to watch in 2019!

sandman1347 wrote:So far this season is looking promising. Gut-wrenching Mechanical failure there at the end in Bahrain but there's no doubt that he's laid down his marker. As predicted, this is the teammate battle to watch in 2019!

Yep he's already proven he's better than Kimi, I've never seen Kimi put the manners on Vettel like Leclerc did this weekend.

Horrible luck for Leclerc, but in terms of potential I think his season has got off to the start that all of us hoped for. He looks at least a match for Vettel right from the off, and as we've seen throughout his career since F2, Leclerc is virtually immune to pressure. I think it won't be long before we start to see the Ferrari mechanism shift to backing him for the title.

He overtook Vettel better than Hamilton did, with no real drama, clean and collision free. When has been the last time Vettel been cleanly overtaken with a teammate in a racing scenario ? He's still finding his feet in F1 and Ferrari but boy he's got everybody's attention now especially Hamilton who recognises what he's facing. 19 races to go and all to play for despite Ferrari's hiccups in the first two.

mas wrote:He overtook Vettel better than Hamilton did, with no real drama, clean and collision free. When has been the last time Vettel had a clean overtake with a teammate in a racing scenario ? He's still finding his feet in F1 and Ferrari but boy he's got everybody's attention now especially Hamilton who recognises what he's facing. 19 races to go and all to play for despite Ferrari's hiccups in the first two.

That's because the Ferrari was the faster car.

But Leclerc was in the same car so it theoretically should have been harder.

pokerman wrote:

mas wrote:He overtook Vettel better than Hamilton did, with no real drama, clean and collision free. When has been the last time Vettel had a clean overtake with a teammate in a racing scenario ? He's still finding his feet in F1 and Ferrari but boy he's got everybody's attention now especially Hamilton who recognises what he's facing. 19 races to go and all to play for despite Ferrari's hiccups in the first two.

That's because the Ferrari was the faster car.

I think the point is that he looked solid. Blew past Vettel like he was standing still and then left him for dead.

mas wrote:But Leclerc was in the same car so it theoretically should have been harder.

It's harder than Vettel being passed by a slower car?

mas wrote:But Leclerc was in the same car so it theoretically should have been harder.

Not following you here.

I would argue that the Mercedes with mediums was not necessarily slower probably close to parity.

mas wrote:I would argue that the Mercedes with mediums was not necessarily slower probably close to parity.

Based on?

Based on the fact that Hamilton hit his fastest lap of 1:33.528 on lap 36 and Leclerc hit his fastest lap of 1:33.411 on lap 38 with a lighter car with both fastest laps two laps after the last pitstop for mediums.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... %20Leclerc

Pretty impressive to be comparing Hammy and Charles already. I really like Leclerc, my new favourite driver.

jimmyj wrote:Pretty impressive to be comparing Hammy and Charles already. I really like Leclerc, my new favorite driver.

Doesn't seem that he will be content to cruise around behind Seb like Kimi did for so long.

I have to wonder how many errors Charles can force Sebastian into over the course of the season.

I am starting to come to the conclusion that Leclerc may be the biggest impediment to Lewis getting WDC number six by the end of the year.

mas wrote:Based on the fact that Hamilton hit his fastest lap of 1:33.528 on lap 36 and Leclerc hit his fastest lap of 1:33.411 on lap 38 with a lighter car with both fastest laps two laps after the last pitstop for mediums.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... %20Leclerc

Ferrari still had a straight line speed advantage though. It's harder to pass cars that are quicker in a straight line. And there was no collision with Lewis's pass. He completed the maneuver cleanly. He was actually already past and then Vettel spun in an attempt to launch a futile counter attack.

kleefton wrote:

mas wrote:Based on the fact that Hamilton hit his fastest lap of 1:33.528 on lap 36 and Leclerc hit his fastest lap of 1:33.411 on lap 38 with a lighter car with both fastest laps two laps after the last pitstop for mediums.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... %20Leclerc

Ferrari still had a straight line speed advantage though. It's harder to pass cars that are quicker in a straight line. And there was no collision with Lewis's pass. He completed the maneuver cleanly. He was actually already past and then Vettel spun in an attempt to launch a futile counter attack.

Even Seb blamed himself for the spin.

Charles is magic.

Leclerc should have already had his first win in F1, but dem's da breaks.

He's already my favourite driver on the grid, even though there's still so much more to see of him and so much more to be proven.