It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

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netdog
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It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by netdog »

How is it possible that after an entire winter, a team doesn't have some sort of car that can do laps around a track to gather data when Barcelona opens for testing?

Many teams have shown up in the past with only partially modified body parts, and even with a chassis from the previous season, but Sir Frank's great old team is still in the garage in Grove?

I've loved this team for many, many years, and stuck with them through thick and thin, but this was the year when Claire Williams had to show she could run an F1 team by making progress and getting us out of the basement, and I'm afraid she and the team aren't off to a great start.

It's time for this team to get a manufacturing partner and get on with it. There was a time when Honda was anyone's for the taking. Claire should have taken.
Magic Williams 2020?

Zoue
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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by Zoue »

I'm pretty stumped tbh. You'd have thought that they'd have written off last year pretty early on to focus on 2019, but the current situation is very sad for team with a history like theirs. It certainly looks like they're in dire need of stronger management, although I'm not convinced their issues would be sorted out with a manufacturer partnership. If they can't get the basics right with a PU as strong as the Merc is then what manufacturer would seriously consider them as a hot prospect for partnership?


They seem to be going from bad to worse. I suspect Paddy Lowe will be paying the price but you have to say Claire looks in over her head, too

SteveW
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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by SteveW »

Fully agree here, I've supported Williams ever since I started watching F1 in the mid 80s.

They will always be the team I support, but when you already have a good idea of how the season is going to end for Williams before it's even started, it doesn't make it easy to be remotely positive about their chances.

I genuinely hoped they would grab Honda from McLaren, but they stuck with Mercedes and have gone further and further backwards. At least if they'd partnered with Honda there would have been a lot more cash floating around and they may have built a better car. Yes, they'd be languishing at the back with the worst engine for a while, but they're already there with arguably the best engine!

Every year I live in hope that this will be the year that we turn it around. I'm placing that hope on hold for 2019 and saving it for 2020 now already. If the team still exists by that point! :(

Mayox
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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by Mayox »

Considering the experience and history what Williams "achieved" last year and what they are doing now is a total disgrace. I know it's easy to point finger at Claire and blame her and as much as I hate to do it, I have to do it.
In every normal company the team principal would have been fired after this kind of season, that's unfortunately the only way to keep things healthy. Some people may say it's Pady's fault, ok... but someone gave him a job and gave him responsibility - after all team principal is always responsible for the results and Claire claimed that Frank would have fired her if he wouldn't like the blue on the new livery... that's like a spit to the Williams fans face really. I'm almost sure at this point that as long as Claire and Paddy are there Williams will not dig themselves out from the last place

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Jezza13
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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by Jezza13 »

As I alluded to in another post, it's not unreasonable to think they should've been more ahead of the game than any other team because their 2018 effort was such a dog that they would've turned their attention to their 2019 offering earlier than anyone else.

This is an unmitigated disaster for Williams after last year. Surely Claire Williams' time is up & maybe Paddy Lowe should follow.

As for the teams future? I honestly don't know. As someone who's been an advocate for the non-manufacturer teams & is not a fan of the influence manufacturer teams have over the sport, this hurts, especially considering that it's Williams, who along with Ferrari & McLaren, sit at the apex of the sports greatest ever teams.

It's heartbreaking to see that this once great team, who could boast world champions such as Jones, Rosberg, Mansell, Piquet, Villeneuve, Hill, Prost & Senna as their drivers, has fallen to this level.

Sadly I can't see Williams having any other role in F1 anymore apart from simply making up the numbers.
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Mayox
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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by Mayox »

Jezza13 wrote:As I alluded to in another post, it's not unreasonable to think they should've been more ahead of the game than any other team because their 2018 effort was such a dog that they would've turned their attention to their 2019 offering earlier than anyone else.
That's not so easy in practice as in theory as the final technical regulations for 2019 season were ready somewhere in the winter, so not sure if there is a point to design a car without the final FIA regulations. Not the excuse though as everyone was able to do it but the team with over 40 years of experience and multiple WDC/WCC titles failed to do it... it's only a prove that upper management is failing the work very hard

dompclarke

Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by dompclarke »

How about waiting to see what the car is actually capable of before writing them off?
They have issues clearly, but other than rumors of a slow car we have no information to base opinion on...

SteveW
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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by SteveW »

dompclarke wrote:How about waiting to see what the car is actually capable of before writing them off?
They have issues clearly, but other than rumors of a slow car we have no information to base opinion on...
Well, I'm hoping they're doing a "Brawn", but in reality I am so very sad to say that I think we all know what's really likely to happen to Williams for 2019 at least.......

I really, genuinely hope to be proved wrong.

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Seanie
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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by Seanie »

I've got a horrible feeling it'll be impossible to be a Williams F1 fan in the near future.
Warning: The above post may contain sarcasm.

Zoue
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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by Zoue »

dompclarke wrote:How about waiting to see what the car is actually capable of before writing them off?
They have issues clearly, but other than rumors of a slow car we have no information to base opinion on...
Well, it's not just on the speed but the fact that the car is not even ready for the test is pretty serious. So it's more about the seemingly incompetent management. Even if they have a decent car they'll be behind the curve in relation to everyone else by the time they finally do get started which will put them on the back foot for the start of the season. It's not good whichever way you look at it and criticism is deserved I feel, especially given their recent history so it's not like this is a blip in an otherwise stellar record

SteveW
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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by SteveW »

Seanie wrote:I've got a horrible feeling it'll be impossible to be a Williams F1 fan in the near future.
That will probably be the point I switch off and stop watching F1 altogether if I'm honest.

It probably sounds silly to a lot of you (or maybe it doesn't) but I find myself less enthusiastic about the start of the F1 season as each year passes.

Whether that would change if Williams were competitive again I'm unsure, or whether it's more than the fact that my team of choice is currently rubbish and it's the "sport" as a whole I've become less interested in over the years I don't know - and I guess I won't know for certain until the day that the Williams F1 team ceases to exist......

Mayox
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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by Mayox »

Well according to some sources Williams is already packing up the car in Grove and it will fly to Barcelona Today evening as scheduled. Russell asked if he thinks he will drive Tomorrow answered "100% yes" so let's wait this 1 more day ;)

babararacucudada
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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by babararacucudada »

I said at the time that it seemed to me that Paddy Lowe was claiming to have a lot to do with the success at Mercedes, but I couldn't see the evidence to suggest that was the case. I wasn't expecting him to be a success at Williams.

Zoue
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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by Zoue »

Mayox wrote:Well according to some sources Williams is already packing up the car in Grove and it will fly to Barcelona Today evening as scheduled. Russell asked if he thinks he will drive Tomorrow answered "100% yes" so let's wait this 1 more day ;)
I'm loving the use of the word "already!" :twisted:

Sutton
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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by Sutton »

babararacucudada wrote:I said at the time that it seemed to me that Paddy Lowe was claiming to have a lot to do with the success at Mercedes, but I couldn't see the evidence to suggest that was the case. I wasn't expecting him to be a success at Williams.
Was Paddy getting too big for his boots at Mercedes and Wolf and Lauda pushed him out the door?

Mayox
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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by Mayox »

Zoue wrote:
Mayox wrote:Well according to some sources Williams is already packing up the car in Grove and it will fly to Barcelona Today evening as scheduled. Russell asked if he thinks he will drive Tomorrow answered "100% yes" so let's wait this 1 more day ;)
I'm loving the use of the word "already!" :twisted:
Yeah :lol:

Other source is quoting one of Williams mechanics who claimed it will be fu...n miracle if they will drive Tomorrow xD

So guess we just have to keep hating xD

cmberry20
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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by cmberry20 »

I think that unless Williams start having top 6 finishes this season then 2019 will probably be their last.
I think Mercedes will probably buy them out to be a B spec team.

pc27b
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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by pc27b »

has there been a reason given for not running? maybe i missed it somewhere

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Lt. Drebin
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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by Lt. Drebin »

pc27b wrote:has there been a reason given for not running? maybe i missed it somewhere
They are simply behind schedule.
The end is near

pc27b
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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by pc27b »

ok, thanks

Zoue
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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by Zoue »

Williams car on way to Barcelona...
An update from the Williams team: The team expect their 2019 car to arrive at the circuit 'between 4 and 5 on Wednesday morning,'
The team say there will still be 'a fair amount of work to do' when it arrives and it's 'unlikely' the car will run in the morning session.
But the impression at least is that they expect to run at some point tomorrow. Which is certainly of some encouragement.

Mayox
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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by Mayox »

Some parts already arrived

Image

sandman1347
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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by sandman1347 »

cmberry20 wrote:I think that unless Williams start having top 6 finishes this season then 2019 will probably be their last.
I think Mercedes will probably buy them out to be a B spec team.
Mercedes B-Spec is the most viable short-term solution for them. They need to restructure the organization. It's time to move beyond the family-run phase of the team and accept the fact that they are not competitive like that. What's needed now is a phase where they focus on internal processes and hiring the right personnel. Back to the drawing board basically and they better start focusing on 2021 or they will soon cease to exist as an F1 team.

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Seanie
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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by Seanie »

I watched the Williams documentary at the weekend, it was quite sad at the end with them asking Frank if he thought he'd see the team be competitive again.

I wish I had his faith. I can't see them moving forward without major investment.
Warning: The above post may contain sarcasm.

BeOnEdge
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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by BeOnEdge »

Seanie wrote:I watched the Williams documentary at the weekend, it was quite sad at the end with them asking Frank if he thought he'd see the team be competitive again.

I wish I had his faith. I can't see them moving forward without major investment.
I also watched the Williams documentary having not seen it before.

F1 runs in Frank's blood and it is such a shame to see Williams in their current state. I just hope this isn't the beginning of the end for the team. It would be surreal to lose such an iconic team. But how much money will they be willing to keep pumping into the team to be back markers season after season?
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F1 MERCENARY
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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

netdog wrote:How is it possible that after an entire winter, a team doesn't have some sort of car that can do laps around a track to gather data when Barcelona opens for testing?

Many teams have shown up in the past with only partially modified body parts, and even with a chassis from the previous season, but Sir Frank's great old team is still in the garage in Grove?

I've loved this team for many, many years, and stuck with them through thick and thin, but this was the year when Claire Williams had to show she could run an F1 team by making progress and getting us out of the basement, and I'm afraid she and the team aren't off to a great start.

It's time for this team to get a manufacturing partner and get on with it. There was a time when Honda was anyone's for the taking. Claire should have taken.
Boy oh boy, DAMNED IF YOU DO, DAMNED IF YOU DON'T!!!

I get sick and tired of armchair critics putting people ON BLAST like this. Had Claire signed with Honda and it not worked out she'd be criticized for being so naive in taking on a problematic engine and you'd likely be calling for her dismissal. She stuck with one of the top 2 PU's in the series, and Mercedes clawed back a considerable amount of performance to recapture their position as top dog in the powerplant department so on that front, she made the absolute best possible decision, and she STILL didn't make the right decision in your eyes.

It seems you THINK Williams still only exists for F1, but they're so technically adept in so many various technologies, they have partnerships with vehicle manufacturers and they are the sole supplier of batteries for Formula E, so they have a lot going on besides F1 through their Technology Division. As for them not being quite ready, you first have to assess their car last year and then consider that although they had all winter to start building this year's car, perhaps someone realized a flaw or perhaps developed some thing(s) that would improve performance and they decided to wait until the updates are completed and installed on the cars before taking to the track. F1 is the most complex of all racing series (that includes prototype cars) and it's vastly more difficult to improve and refine car performance than in any other series, so maybe you're just being short sighted and not considering the complete picture when forming opinions like this.

Where I will say they failed in on the Livery side because as the article on the front page states, it literally resembles the artwork on a tube of toothpaste, and from my graphic designer perspective, it really looks and feels like NO EFFORT went into developing a proper livery.

I'll continue to be optimistic for Williams until they prove otherwise.
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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

cmberry20 wrote:I think that unless Williams start having top 6 finishes this season then 2019 will probably be their last.
I think Mercedes will probably buy them out to be a B spec team.
I don't think so personally. Williams have too much history as a staple in the sport and their Technology Division is lucrative enough to help keep the F1 operation going.
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STROLL :: MAGNUSSEN :: GROSJEAN :: GASLY :: GIOVANAZZI :: KUBICA

Mayox
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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by Mayox »

This history is so hilarious that I just don't believe it will find happy end. Even if this car after all the anticipation will finally arrive I have some stupid feeling that Russell or Kubica is gonna crash it on the opening stint... :/

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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by Multi69 »

Arrivbene was axed for coming second. Claire not axed for years of poor results - Why? Don't Williams want to win as badly as Ferrari?

I'm with the opinion she needs to let someone else take charge and she can take on another role. Her bring in charge bring zero confidence. They're probably just a 'test' team for Mercedes now who u$e and abu$e them.

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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by Jezza13 »

Mayox wrote:Some parts already arrived

Image
Bald Guy: Hey Roger, it's awful quiet here. The phone line was pretty crackly but I'm sure Claire said she'll see us in Bahrain.

Guy with paperwork: Giz a sec Tony, I'll just check the itinerary. It says here........... Oops

Guy with hand over nose: (muffled) Oh for f**k sake.

Guy with hand in pockets: Yeah I thought it was weird they moved testing from Spain this year.

Guy with arms folded: Yeah anyway I spoke to the missus & she'd have no drama's moving to Brackley

Guy with arms behind his back: (Thinking) Knew I should've taken that job as a door to door vacuum cleaner salesman. I wonder if it's too late? If just look straight ahead & edge away slowly sideways, maybe they won't notice me getting out the hell of here.
Only took 7 yrs, 5 mths & 21 days.

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paul_gmb
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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by paul_gmb »

some of the comments in here just reinforce why we're commenting on forums and they are doing the work.

This is such a competitive business, that even those work are really smart and working their behinds off sometimes fail. It's natural, sometimes things work for you, sometimes they don't, even though you have taken good decisions and worked like a mad man.

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Seanie
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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by Seanie »

Multi69 wrote:Arrivbene was axed for coming second. Claire not axed for years of poor results - Why? Don't Williams want to win as badly as Ferrari?

I'm with the opinion she needs to let someone else take charge and she can take on another role. Her bring in charge bring zero confidence. They're probably just a 'test' team for Mercedes now who u$e and abu$e them.
I think we're all dancing around the issue, she's there because she's Frank's daughter. I'm sure has great business skills and is capable of running a business but there must come a point where even she feels enough is enough.

I don't know. I like Claire, but I can't see the team surviving at this rate. If she must remain at the top, she needs to start being ruthless and find better people to steer the team in a better direction. They're beginning to remind me of Tyrell.
Warning: The above post may contain sarcasm.

Mayox
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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by Mayox »

The front and rear suspension as well as brakes cooling system looks totally different than on the other cars

Image

SteveW
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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by SteveW »

The darker blue fading to the lighter blue looks MUCH better than the original pale blue launch pics too.

So at least it looks a bit better than I thought it would :D

Let's see if it's as slow as has been rumoured (I sooooooo desperately hope not!)

Todd
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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by Todd »

Until I saw a headline today that Williams asserts that they will be on the grid in Australia, I had never considered that they wouldn't show up for qualifying in Australia. Nothing indicts like denial.
Does anyone think that there has ever been a moment of frustration with his father when Max has pointed out to Jos that he was the Pierre Gasly of 1994?

Mayox
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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by Mayox »

Todd wrote:Until I saw a headline today that Williams asserts that they will be on the grid in Australia, I had never considered that they wouldn't show up for qualifying in Australia. Nothing indicts like denial.
They will be on the grid, however the outcome is obvious now and will be very sad for Williams fans :/ I guess they will fall behind even more then last time

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netdog
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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by netdog »

They need a manufacturing partner. The last time they were competitive was when they had BMW. That divorce was terrible for both sides.
Magic Williams 2020?

BMWSauber84
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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by BMWSauber84 »

netdog wrote:They need a manufacturing partner. The last time they were competitive was when they had BMW. That divorce was terrible for both sides.
It was terrible for Williams more than it was for BMW

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Lt. Drebin
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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by Lt. Drebin »

I can wish them only well, hoping that they will have a season that will leave them satisfied on the end.
The end is near

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jimmyj
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Re: It's getting harder to be a Williams fan

Post by jimmyj »

I love Williams and am genuinely worried about them. I so very much hope they are with us in F1 and competitive for a long time to come.

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