Re: 2019 Pre-Season Testing Thread (Updated with Test 1 Line
Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:28 am
Ricciardo's DRS crash from a different angle:
the bit about the thermal degradation issues confirms what I'd noticed during testing and is a little worrying. It'll mean drivers competing to see how slow they can finish a GPaice wrote:Some number crunching from Karun Chandhok:
1 lap pace:
https://twitter.com/karunchandhok/statu ... 8339055618
Long runs:
https://twitter.com/karunchandhok/statu ... 1113281536
Thermal tyre deg issues:
https://twitter.com/karunchandhok/statu ... 1111710720
Yeah I've just read something about that, the intention was to have more durable tyres but they have basically turned up with the same tyres from last year, so tyre management we have again.Zoue wrote:the bit about the thermal degradation issues confirms what I'd noticed during testing and is a little worrying. It'll mean drivers competing to see how slow they can finish a GPaice wrote:Some number crunching from Karun Chandhok:
1 lap pace:
https://twitter.com/karunchandhok/statu ... 8339055618
Long runs:
https://twitter.com/karunchandhok/statu ... 1113281536
Thermal tyre deg issues:
https://twitter.com/karunchandhok/statu ... 1111710720
Thanks. It makes sense now for me. That shows why people say that Hamilton is great driver and why Bottas wasn't so good last season.pokerman wrote:The Mercedes was said to be difficult to drive hence it being called the diva, the Ferrari never got that tag line.dizlexik wrote:Vettel and his team made a lot of mistakes and wrong strategy calls, there is no doubt about that. My point is that while some car can be quick, they can also be very difficult to setup and drive. I thought Ferrari was a bit like that last season and that it contributed a bit to Vettel poor form. It was said in 2014 for example that Red Bull made car that didn't suit Vettel for the first time in years and Vettel looked really terrible in that Red Bull. Some drivers are better in such a situations, but probably Vettel isn't. Also this is why such a news are good for Vettel and Ferrari: https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/47322639Zoue wrote:No I don't think so. The most that could be said would be that Vettel may have had to overdrive the car if he felt it was missing that final bit of speed, but even so that's still down to the driver making the best of it. I don't think the car can be blamed for the mistakes that were made, even if I don't share the view that it was the best car last year
Of course I'm not following F1 that closely anymore so I could be very wrong about last season.
Fuel is still a very significant factor in lap time, and indeed, if a car doesn't need to carry as much fuel that can make it faster in race trim than an equally quick car that uses more fuel. Less weight is always a good thing in racing; it makes the car easier to drive, it reduces the wear on the tyres - it does nothing but good, basically.Option or Prime wrote:First up, I may be wrong, I don’t mind being wrong I’m not so self centred as to dismiss the truth when presented or so fanatical to dismiss the facts when presented but can some one please explain why the point I brought up hasn’t be commented on as a race winning factor.
I can see that tyres are a factor, that tyre degradation as a result of temperature is an unknown, I can see that power out put can de disguised but not hidden, I can see that drivers can offset mechanical advantages by their skill. I can also see that engine modes affect times. However, isn’t fuel consumption a complete unknown.
If your car is down on power for a given weight resulting in a faster time for the manufacturer then better fuel consumption means less fuel, less weight, less tyre wear and a faster time but only when the fuel load is set for the race. If it isn’t significant can someone put me right. Isn’t 5kg less fuel significant or does the driver weight regs change nullify that? (Autosport analysis @6.40)
It kind of makes no sense at all, it's baffling.Black_Flag_11 wrote:Disappointed that Sky aren't showing the second test, not even half hour summary shows like last year as far as I can tell from the tv listings.
Well as pointed out it was in 2017 when the Mercedes was called the diva, I was just making the comparison that no such thing was being said about the Ferrari these past 2 years, in regards to Bottas he sometimes did better than Hamilton in 2017 when the car was misbehaving.dizlexik wrote:Thanks. It makes sense now for me. That shows why people say that Hamilton is great driver and why Bottas wasn't so good last season.pokerman wrote:The Mercedes was said to be difficult to drive hence it being called the diva, the Ferrari never got that tag line.dizlexik wrote:Vettel and his team made a lot of mistakes and wrong strategy calls, there is no doubt about that. My point is that while some car can be quick, they can also be very difficult to setup and drive. I thought Ferrari was a bit like that last season and that it contributed a bit to Vettel poor form. It was said in 2014 for example that Red Bull made car that didn't suit Vettel for the first time in years and Vettel looked really terrible in that Red Bull. Some drivers are better in such a situations, but probably Vettel isn't. Also this is why such a news are good for Vettel and Ferrari: https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/47322639Zoue wrote:No I don't think so. The most that could be said would be that Vettel may have had to overdrive the car if he felt it was missing that final bit of speed, but even so that's still down to the driver making the best of it. I don't think the car can be blamed for the mistakes that were made, even if I don't share the view that it was the best car last year
Of course I'm not following F1 that closely anymore so I could be very wrong about last season.
Fuel weight can be a factor in the race, to this point the Mercedes engine is reckoned upon as being the most fuel efficient maybe able to start a race with 5kg less fuel?Option or Prime wrote:First up, I may be wrong, I don’t mind being wrong I’m not so self centred as to dismiss the truth when presented or so fanatical to dismiss the facts when presented but can some one please explain why the point I brought up hasn’t be commented on as a race winning factor.
I can see that tyres are a factor, that tyre degradation as a result of temperature is an unknown, I can see that power out put can de disguised but not hidden, I can see that drivers can offset mechanical advantages by their skill. I can also see that engine modes affect times. However, isn’t fuel consumption a complete unknown.
If your car is down on power for a given weight resulting in a faster time for the manufacturer then better fuel consumption means less fuel, less weight, less tyre wear and a faster time but only when the fuel load is set for the race. If it isn’t significant can someone put me right. Isn’t 5kg less fuel significant or does the driver weight regs change nullify that? (Autosport analysis @6.40)
Which, if true, would make it about 1 tenth a lap average over the entire race.pokerman wrote:Fuel weight can be a factor in the race, to this point the Mercedes engine is reckoned upon as being the most fuel efficient maybe able to start a race with 5kg less fuel?Option or Prime wrote:First up, I may be wrong, I don’t mind being wrong I’m not so self centred as to dismiss the truth when presented or so fanatical to dismiss the facts when presented but can some one please explain why the point I brought up hasn’t be commented on as a race winning factor.
I can see that tyres are a factor, that tyre degradation as a result of temperature is an unknown, I can see that power out put can de disguised but not hidden, I can see that drivers can offset mechanical advantages by their skill. I can also see that engine modes affect times. However, isn’t fuel consumption a complete unknown.
If your car is down on power for a given weight resulting in a faster time for the manufacturer then better fuel consumption means less fuel, less weight, less tyre wear and a faster time but only when the fuel load is set for the race. If it isn’t significant can someone put me right. Isn’t 5kg less fuel significant or does the driver weight regs change nullify that? (Autosport analysis @6.40)
5kg equates to about 2 tenths so if true it's going to be very much a factor in the races this year.
A tenth a lap is 5-6 seconds at the average GP. That's often greater than or equal to the winning margin of a contested race.Prema wrote:Which, if true, would make it about 1 tenth a lap average over the entire race.pokerman wrote:Fuel weight can be a factor in the race, to this point the Mercedes engine is reckoned upon as being the most fuel efficient maybe able to start a race with 5kg less fuel?Option or Prime wrote:First up, I may be wrong, I don’t mind being wrong I’m not so self centred as to dismiss the truth when presented or so fanatical to dismiss the facts when presented but can some one please explain why the point I brought up hasn’t be commented on as a race winning factor.
I can see that tyres are a factor, that tyre degradation as a result of temperature is an unknown, I can see that power out put can de disguised but not hidden, I can see that drivers can offset mechanical advantages by their skill. I can also see that engine modes affect times. However, isn’t fuel consumption a complete unknown.
If your car is down on power for a given weight resulting in a faster time for the manufacturer then better fuel consumption means less fuel, less weight, less tyre wear and a faster time but only when the fuel load is set for the race. If it isn’t significant can someone put me right. Isn’t 5kg less fuel significant or does the driver weight regs change nullify that? (Autosport analysis @6.40)
5kg equates to about 2 tenths so if true it's going to be very much a factor in the races this year.
10:48
Still just six laps on the board for Charles Leclerc and we haven't seen him on track in over an hour.
Not the fast and busy morning we've come to expect from Ferrari in 2019...
11:59 Leclerc is back out in the Ferrari.
I don't get that feeling at all apparently the front wing design is somewhat lacking and would take months to replicate what Ferrari have done.stevey wrote:Merc bringing lots of upgrades, new sidepods, front wing, t bar. God knows what else - looks like the pressure is on. As a merc fan I have this feeling that they are massively sandbagging and come australia are going to smash it.
Oh yeah sorry I somehow missed you saying that.stevey wrote:front wing/nose was on the list, not a replica of ferraris design but an suspected improvement to their own design as
14:30 And we have a red flag.
14:31 Bottas is the cause, pulling off on the inside of Turn 3.
Gasly moves into P1 with the first sub 1:18 time of the day. The Frenchman clocks a 1:17.715.
Looks like Seb had lot more fuel than Gasly when he did 1.17 lap on C315:57
Sebastian Vettel has just finished his impressive afternoon stint, which included that 1:17.925 before consistently lapping in the 1:18s and then 1:20s.
He's completed 31 laps in less than two hours, which is more than Charles Leclerc got under his belt in the whole morning session.
Ah, thank youClarky wrote:Mercedes is changing the engine for Bottas after an oil pressure problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHJ07PQJRFMpokerman wrote:I don't get that feeling at all apparently the front wing design is somewhat lacking and would take months to replicate what Ferrari have done.stevey wrote:Merc bringing lots of upgrades, new sidepods, front wing, t bar. God knows what else - looks like the pressure is on. As a merc fan I have this feeling that they are massively sandbagging and come australia are going to smash it.
Looking at the list of parts you mentioned I was hoping to see a front wing on the itinerary instead it seems like loads of parts to try and enable the front wing to work better?
Exediron wrote:A tenth a lap is 5-6 seconds at the average GP. That's often greater than or equal to the winning margin of a contested race.Prema wrote:Which, if true, would make it about 1 tenth a lap average over the entire race.pokerman wrote:Fuel weight can be a factor in the race, to this point the Mercedes engine is reckoned upon as being the most fuel efficient maybe able to start a race with 5kg less fuel?Option or Prime wrote:First up, I may be wrong, I don’t mind being wrong I’m not so self centred as to dismiss the truth when presented or so fanatical to dismiss the facts when presented but can some one please explain why the point I brought up hasn’t be commented on as a race winning factor.
I can see that tyres are a factor, that tyre degradation as a result of temperature is an unknown, I can see that power out put can de disguised but not hidden, I can see that drivers can offset mechanical advantages by their skill. I can also see that engine modes affect times. However, isn’t fuel consumption a complete unknown.
If your car is down on power for a given weight resulting in a faster time for the manufacturer then better fuel consumption means less fuel, less weight, less tyre wear and a faster time but only when the fuel load is set for the race. If it isn’t significant can someone put me right. Isn’t 5kg less fuel significant or does the driver weight regs change nullify that? (Autosport analysis @6.40)
5kg equates to about 2 tenths so if true it's going to be very much a factor in the races this year.
They still have time though. I have faith in Merc, if there's one team that can make this sort of change so fast it is them.sandman1347 wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHJ07PQJRFMpokerman wrote:I don't get that feeling at all apparently the front wing design is somewhat lacking and would take months to replicate what Ferrari have done.stevey wrote:Merc bringing lots of upgrades, new sidepods, front wing, t bar. God knows what else - looks like the pressure is on. As a merc fan I have this feeling that they are massively sandbagging and come australia are going to smash it.
Looking at the list of parts you mentioned I was hoping to see a front wing on the itinerary instead it seems like loads of parts to try and enable the front wing to work better?
Yup. It looks like they got it wrong on some level with their initial concept. They have had some handling issues and it seems entirely possible that this is another double diffuser situation; where teams who identified the real opportunity provided by new aero regulations will have an initial advantage. The production of outwash supersedes the maximization of downforce created by the front wing apparently and the teams who went with that philosophy seem to have the edge.
I don't think it's that simple. The front wing design is connected to the overall design philosophy as the front wing is basically the element that channels airflow to the rest of the car. It would probably take months for them to redesign the car to mimic the direction that Ferrari have taken. They will need to hope that their direction is actually the better one and only needs some tweaks.Siao7 wrote:They still have time though. I have faith in Merc, if there's one team that can make this sort of change so fast it is them.sandman1347 wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHJ07PQJRFMpokerman wrote:I don't get that feeling at all apparently the front wing design is somewhat lacking and would take months to replicate what Ferrari have done.stevey wrote:Merc bringing lots of upgrades, new sidepods, front wing, t bar. God knows what else - looks like the pressure is on. As a merc fan I have this feeling that they are massively sandbagging and come australia are going to smash it.
Looking at the list of parts you mentioned I was hoping to see a front wing on the itinerary instead it seems like loads of parts to try and enable the front wing to work better?
Yup. It looks like they got it wrong on some level with their initial concept. They have had some handling issues and it seems entirely possible that this is another double diffuser situation; where teams who identified the real opportunity provided by new aero regulations will have an initial advantage. The production of outwash supersedes the maximization of downforce created by the front wing apparently and the teams who went with that philosophy seem to have the edge.
I just can't believe they got it "wrong" in the first place. I guess this is why we have testing
Still think we're jumping the gun on this one.sandman1347 wrote:I don't think it's that simple. The front wing design is connected to the overall design philosophy as the front wing is basically the element that channels airflow to the rest of the car. It would probably take months for them to redesign the car to mimic the direction that Ferrari have taken. They will need to hope that their direction is actually the better one and only needs some tweaks.Siao7 wrote:They still have time though. I have faith in Merc, if there's one team that can make this sort of change so fast it is them.sandman1347 wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHJ07PQJRFMpokerman wrote:I don't get that feeling at all apparently the front wing design is somewhat lacking and would take months to replicate what Ferrari have done.stevey wrote:Merc bringing lots of upgrades, new sidepods, front wing, t bar. God knows what else - looks like the pressure is on. As a merc fan I have this feeling that they are massively sandbagging and come australia are going to smash it.
Looking at the list of parts you mentioned I was hoping to see a front wing on the itinerary instead it seems like loads of parts to try and enable the front wing to work better?
Yup. It looks like they got it wrong on some level with their initial concept. They have had some handling issues and it seems entirely possible that this is another double diffuser situation; where teams who identified the real opportunity provided by new aero regulations will have an initial advantage. The production of outwash supersedes the maximization of downforce created by the front wing apparently and the teams who went with that philosophy seem to have the edge.
I just can't believe they got it "wrong" in the first place. I guess this is why we have testing