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-ZeroGravityToilet- wrote:

Siao7 wrote:

Asphalt_World wrote:F1 gets it's first bit of proper driver attitude since the 1970s so F1 punishes it!

Guess that's the world we live in.

90's I'd say when Senna chinned Eddie or when Schumacher tried to get DC.

F1 has chosen to punish the inocent party, Ocon, waaaaaay more harshly than violent brat Max. Go figure the world we live in!

Well, in fairness these punishments are for different things. It would be fun to have Ocon doing garbage day as a penalty after the race though!

kleefton wrote:

Lotus49 wrote:He didn't come close to breezing past on the straight into T1 and was too impatient to try again in the next DRS zone down into T4. Those were the sensible options if he's much faster anyway.

I wouldn't expect a lapped car to compete for the apex in T2 either, I'd barely expect it when racing for position, Bottas backed out after getting passed by Dan, its asking for trouble and also because you're both risking your exit of T3 if you fight there even if you both avoid contact during T2, and you can end up bleeding time down the straight because of it.

As soon as Max defended T1 Ocon should've just focused on getting the best exit of T3 to just breeze past with DRS on the run to T4 if he had the pace. Clean and simple and not aggressive.

Sorry I disagree. If you watch it again, you see that Ocon actually had his nose in front at turn one. Verstappen braked late and dove on the inside to inch out in front and then expected Ocon to get out of the way. He did the same when he was overtaking Vettel, he just does not have any respect for any car that he is fighting with, and that is why it is going to bite him every now and then. That is also the reason Hamilton gave him so much room at COTA; because he knows that is how Max drives. He never leaves space. IMO it was refreshing to see that someone didn't chicken out against him. Being a lap down or not does not matter. Once you are fighting on track, you must respect the rules of engagement, otherwise you have to expect things might go wrong.

Happy to agree to disagree. I think we're only really apart on the bolded as I don't think you should be that aggressive when trying to unlap yourself, that's all.

If it was racing for position then I'd be closer to your take on it I think, although I'd still think Ocon was choosing a poor place to make a move but I'd probably lean towards more a racing incident because Max didn't leave the space.

Take a page from Douglas Adams and "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy", dump him on a prehistoric planet and tell him to evolve into a more responsible life form.

Edit: While we are at it, dump his dad Jos on the prehistoric planet with him. Also needs to evolve.

Asphalt_World wrote:F1 gets it's first bit of proper driver attitude since the 1970s so F1 punishes it!

Guess that's the world we live in.

Do I understand correctly that you side with Ocon? In that case, I agree.

So half of Max's punishment has been announced

http://f1i.com/news/327635-verstappen-h ... eprix.html

"Verstappen will spend the day as an observer to the stewards, closely following their work at a top-level international motor sport event as part of the educational and informative approach taken by the FIA in this matter."

Really?

This is a joke.

Jezza13 wrote:So half of Max's punishment has been announced

http://f1i.com/news/327635-verstappen-h ... eprix.html

"Verstappen will spend the day as an observer to the stewards, closely following their work at a top-level international motor sport event as part of the educational and informative approach taken by the FIA in this matter."

Really?

This is a joke.

I mean, it's not community service, so in that regard it is a joke. But forcing him to watch the process by which penalties are handed out and rules are enforced might help him see it a little more objectively and realize that it's not all about him.

But that should be in addition to some actual community service. Something that's actually, you know, unpleasant and grueling. Like a punishment.

Exediron wrote:

Jezza13 wrote:So half of Max's punishment has been announced

http://f1i.com/news/327635-verstappen-h ... eprix.html

"Verstappen will spend the day as an observer to the stewards, closely following their work at a top-level international motor sport event as part of the educational and informative approach taken by the FIA in this matter."

Really?

This is a joke.

I mean, it's not community service, so in that regard it is a joke. But forcing him to watch the process by which penalties are handed out and rules are enforced might help him see it a little more objectively and realize that it's not all about him.

But that should be in addition to some actual community service. Something that's actually, you know, unpleasant and grueling. Like a punishment.

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-auto ... x-Sam-Bird

“I’ve of course followed Formula E a bit on TV but I’ve never been in the paddock, and I really enjoyed the day."

I hope the second part of the punishment will be the same task, but during a F1 race.

Fiki wrote:I hope the second part of the punishment will be the same task, but during a F1 race.

You mean the second part involves a race suspension? That would be fair, yes.

Exediron wrote:

Fiki wrote:I hope the second part of the punishment will be the same task, but during a F1 race.

You mean the second part involves a race suspension? That would be fair, yes.

In all honesty, I don't think it would change much in this case, though I also think it would be fair. The reason I believe it wouldn't change Max's understanding of the rules in any way, is that the incident which triggered the one he got his punishment for, was decided in his favour. What happened in the post-race weighing room was really no big deal, even though Max did tell all viewers it was going to happen. But the stewards' ruling on the accident, though I still can't understand why, laid blame with Ocon. I believe that ruling to be a consequence of the badly thought through blue flag rules, and am a bit concerned for Max's overly inflated ego.
Also, a lot might depend on the stewards he sees in action, and the nature of the incidents they are called upon to investigate.

Well Verstappen did say he wasn't prepared to do anything that he found demeaning so when asked what he would prefer to do he said he wouldn't mind watching a FE race.

This seems to me to be taken out of context. It doesn't look demeaning to Formula E, to send him the to see how the stewards work is to put their work their at a similar level to F1.
To educate him on the process of the stewards is a good thing, he has moaned about their decisions so to let him see how they arrive there is surely beneficial.
The punishment was to be with the stewards, it couldn't be F1 without him missing a race...

dompclarke wrote:This seems to me to be taken out of context. It doesn't look demeaning to Formula E, to send him the to see how the stewards work is to put their work their at a similar level to F1.
To educate him on the process of the stewards is a good thing, he has moaned about their decisions so to let him see how they arrive there is surely beneficial.
The punishment was to be with the stewards, it couldn't be F1 without him missing a race...

Yes I actually see the sense in what they did, funny how one or two FE drivers' noses got put out of joint though.

pokerman wrote:

dompclarke wrote:This seems to me to be taken out of context. It doesn't look demeaning to Formula E, to send him the to see how the stewards work is to put their work their at a similar level to F1.
To educate him on the process of the stewards is a good thing, he has moaned about their decisions so to let him see how they arrive there is surely beneficial.
The punishment was to be with the stewards, it couldn't be F1 without him missing a race...

Yes I actually see the sense in what they did, funny how one or two FE drivers' noses got put out of joint though.

Indeed, the FE drivers should take it that the FIA was putting them on a similar level to F1 hence it was relevant for Max to go there

dompclarke wrote:

pokerman wrote:

dompclarke wrote:This seems to me to be taken out of context. It doesn't look demeaning to Formula E, to send him the to see how the stewards work is to put their work their at a similar level to F1.
To educate him on the process of the stewards is a good thing, he has moaned about their decisions so to let him see how they arrive there is surely beneficial.
The punishment was to be with the stewards, it couldn't be F1 without him missing a race...

Yes I actually see the sense in what they did, funny how one or two FE drivers' noses got put out of joint though.

Indeed, the FE drivers should take it that the FIA was putting them on a similar level to F1 hence it was relevant for Max to go there

...rather than they looking at it as a put down because Verstappen was there as a punishment.

pokerman wrote:

dompclarke wrote:

pokerman wrote:

dompclarke wrote:This seems to me to be taken out of context. It doesn't look demeaning to Formula E, to send him the to see how the stewards work is to put their work their at a similar level to F1.
To educate him on the process of the stewards is a good thing, he has moaned about their decisions so to let him see how they arrive there is surely beneficial.
The punishment was to be with the stewards, it couldn't be F1 without him missing a race...

Yes I actually see the sense in what they did, funny how one or two FE drivers' noses got put out of joint though.

Indeed, the FE drivers should take it that the FIA was putting them on a similar level to F1 hence it was relevant for Max to go there

...rather than they looking at it as a put down because Verstappen was there as a punishment.

It almost looks as though the ones being punished were the stewards!

pokerman wrote:

dompclarke wrote:This seems to me to be taken out of context. It doesn't look demeaning to Formula E, to send him the to see how the stewards work is to put their work their at a similar level to F1.
To educate him on the process of the stewards is a good thing, he has moaned about their decisions so to let him see how they arrive there is surely beneficial.
The punishment was to be with the stewards, it couldn't be F1 without him missing a race...

Yes I actually see the sense in what they did, funny how one or two FE drivers' noses got put out of joint though.

Oh, I missed that, who said what? Did anyone object towards Max watching their race or something?

Siao7 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

dompclarke wrote:This seems to me to be taken out of context. It doesn't look demeaning to Formula E, to send him the to see how the stewards work is to put their work their at a similar level to F1.
To educate him on the process of the stewards is a good thing, he has moaned about their decisions so to let him see how they arrive there is surely beneficial.
The punishment was to be with the stewards, it couldn't be F1 without him missing a race...

Yes I actually see the sense in what they did, funny how one or two FE drivers' noses got put out of joint though.

Oh, I missed that, who said what? Did anyone object towards Max watching their race or something?

From the article published on PF1:

Virgin driver Sam Bird told RaceFans: “I mean, to call coming to Formula E race ‘community service’ I think does Formula E a bit of an injustice.

“It shouldn’t be a punishment to come here.

Fiki wrote:

pokerman wrote:

dompclarke wrote:

pokerman wrote:

dompclarke wrote:This seems to me to be taken out of context. It doesn't look demeaning to Formula E, to send him the to see how the stewards work is to put their work their at a similar level to F1.
To educate him on the process of the stewards is a good thing, he has moaned about their decisions so to let him see how they arrive there is surely beneficial.
The punishment was to be with the stewards, it couldn't be F1 without him missing a race...

Yes I actually see the sense in what they did, funny how one or two FE drivers' noses got put out of joint though.

Indeed, the FE drivers should take it that the FIA was putting them on a similar level to F1 hence it was relevant for Max to go there

...rather than they looking at it as a put down because Verstappen was there as a punishment.

It almost looks as though the ones being punished were the stewards!

Steward, that being Liuzzi a former Red Bull driver so I doubt it.

Although I don't know what Liuzzi made of Verstappen's suggestion that Vergne, da Costa and Sims should be awarded bonus points for their excellent driving?

dompclarke wrote:

Siao7 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

dompclarke wrote:This seems to me to be taken out of context. It doesn't look demeaning to Formula E, to send him the to see how the stewards work is to put their work their at a similar level to F1.
To educate him on the process of the stewards is a good thing, he has moaned about their decisions so to let him see how they arrive there is surely beneficial.
The punishment was to be with the stewards, it couldn't be F1 without him missing a race...

Yes I actually see the sense in what they did, funny how one or two FE drivers' noses got put out of joint though.

Oh, I missed that, who said what? Did anyone object towards Max watching their race or something?

From the article published on PF1:

Virgin driver Sam Bird told RaceFans: “I mean, to call coming to Formula E race ‘community service’ I think does Formula E a bit of an injustice.

“It shouldn’t be a punishment to come here.

Ah, thank you

dompclarke wrote:

Siao7 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

dompclarke wrote:This seems to me to be taken out of context. It doesn't look demeaning to Formula E, to send him the to see how the stewards work is to put their work their at a similar level to F1.
To educate him on the process of the stewards is a good thing, he has moaned about their decisions so to let him see how they arrive there is surely beneficial.
The punishment was to be with the stewards, it couldn't be F1 without him missing a race...

Yes I actually see the sense in what they did, funny how one or two FE drivers' noses got put out of joint though.

Oh, I missed that, who said what? Did anyone object towards Max watching their race or something?

From the article published on PF1:

Virgin driver Sam Bird told RaceFans: “I mean, to call coming to Formula E race ‘community service’ I think does Formula E a bit of an injustice.

“It shouldn’t be a punishment to come here.

yeah I think they missed the point on that one. The punishment was joining the stewards at a race, to see how they made their decisions. They could hardly do it in F1. Being at Formula E wasn't the punishment.

Exediron wrote:

Jezza13 wrote:So half of Max's punishment has been announced

http://f1i.com/news/327635-verstappen-h ... eprix.html

"Verstappen will spend the day as an observer to the stewards, closely following their work at a top-level international motor sport event as part of the educational and informative approach taken by the FIA in this matter."

Really?

This is a joke.

I mean, it's not community service, so in that regard it is a joke. But forcing him to watch the process by which penalties are handed out and rules are enforced might help him see it a little more objectively and realize that it's not all about him.

But that should be in addition to some actual community service. Something that's actually, you know, unpleasant and grueling. Like a punishment.

Agreed. Community service would be walking about the circuit the day after with a sticker pole and trash bag to pick up the refuse left behind. I fail to see how MV learns a "lesson" with this.

I assumed the pennance would not be racing-related. As it is, the promoters got to promote Verstappen's attendance, maybe boosting their box office.

They used to make them participate in road safety campaigns.

I guess they do not regard Max safe enough!!!

Siao7 wrote:They used to make them participate in road safety campaigns.

I guess they do not regard Max safe enough!!!

No, Max said he wouldn't do anything humiliating. Exactly why he has a choice in what his punishment is, however, is another matter.

Siao7 wrote:They used to make them participate in road safety campaigns.

I guess they do not regard Max safe enough!!!

And they would be right.

Zoue wrote:yeah I think they missed the point on that one. The punishment was joining the stewards at a race, to see how they made their decisions. They could hardly do it in F1.

I don't agree they could hardly do it in F1; the team bears a responsibility in the conduct of their driver. If Max were to be made to sit out a race and join the stewards as an observer, the Red Bull reserve driver would gladly take Max's place.
What I doubt, however, is whether Max would actually learn something from the experience, that would improve his sportsmanship. Unfortunately, he seems to follow in the footsteps of other overtalented drivers who were never wrong about anything. (And I wouldn't be surprised if sports psychologists were to say that is exactly the attitude required, to reach the top of the sport's earnings ladder.)

Perhaps the FIA might make him spend the second day of his "community service" learning about the rules from Tony-Scott Andrews, provided he would accept the idea.

Fiki wrote:

Siao7 wrote:They used to make them participate in road safety campaigns.

I guess they do not regard Max safe enough!!!

And they would be right.

Zoue wrote:yeah I think they missed the point on that one. The punishment was joining the stewards at a race, to see how they made their decisions. They could hardly do it in F1.

I don't agree they could hardly do it in F1; the team bears a responsibility in the conduct of their driver. If Max were to be made to sit out a race and join the stewards as an observer, the Red Bull reserve driver would gladly take Max's place.
What I doubt, however, is whether Max would actually learn something from the experience, that would improve his sportsmanship. Unfortunately, he seems to follow in the footsteps of other overtalented drivers who were never wrong about anything. (And I wouldn't be surprised if sports psychologists were to say that is exactly the attitude required, to reach the top of the sport's earnings ladder.)

Perhaps the FIA might make him spend the second day of his "community service" learning about the rules from Tony-Scott Andrews, provided he would accept the idea.

well one would have to question whether the severity of the offence merited a race ban in that instance. I'm basically talking about the realistic options given the offence in question.

Exediron wrote:

Siao7 wrote:They used to make them participate in road safety campaigns.

I guess they do not regard Max safe enough!!!

No, Max said he wouldn't do anything humiliating. Exactly why he has a choice in what his punishment is, however, is another matter.

Why do you consider it humiliating? It is the least they can do. It does not mean pick up dog liter by the side of the road, just promoting road safety like "don't drink and drive", etc.

His punishment was 2 days "community" or "public" service. Call it what you like, I don't care.

Now, how, by any stretch of the imagination, can being forced to attend a motor race and hang out with the stewards while they do their job be construed as performing a "community" or "public" service?

That's a very, very long bow to draw. If his punishment was a 2 day "educational" program or something like that, then fair enough, I could understand why he was made to sit in with the stewards, but community or public service? Come on. That's laughable. We're being played for fools here by the Verstappen camp, Red Bull & the FIA.

What actual community or public service did he perform in Marrakesh anyway? Does anyone know because as far as i'm concerned what he did was definitely not in either of those categories?

Jezza13 wrote:His punishment was 2 days "community" or "public" service. Call it what you like, I don't care.

Now, how, by any stretch of the imagination, can being forced to attend a motor race and hang out with the stewards while they do their job be construed as performing a "community" or "public" service?

That's a very, very long bow to draw. If his punishment was a 2 day "educational" program or something like that, then fair enough, I could understand why he was made to sit in with the stewards, but community or public service? Come on. That's laughable. We're being played for fools here by the Verstappen camp, Red Bull & the FIA.

What actual community or public service did he perform in Marrakesh anyway? Does anyone know because as far as i'm concerned what he did was definitely not in either of those categories?

Well said

Zoue wrote:

Fiki wrote:

Siao7 wrote:They used to make them participate in road safety campaigns.

I guess they do not regard Max safe enough!!!

And they would be right.

Zoue wrote:yeah I think they missed the point on that one. The punishment was joining the stewards at a race, to see how they made their decisions. They could hardly do it in F1.

I don't agree they could hardly do it in F1; the team bears a responsibility in the conduct of their driver. If Max were to be made to sit out a race and join the stewards as an observer, the Red Bull reserve driver would gladly take Max's place.
What I doubt, however, is whether Max would actually learn something from the experience, that would improve his sportsmanship. Unfortunately, he seems to follow in the footsteps of other overtalented drivers who were never wrong about anything. (And I wouldn't be surprised if sports psychologists were to say that is exactly the attitude required, to reach the top of the sport's earnings ladder.)

Perhaps the FIA might make him spend the second day of his "community service" learning about the rules from Tony-Scott Andrews, provided he would accept the idea.

well one would have to question whether the severity of the offence merited a race ban in that instance. I'm basically talking about the realistic options given the offence in question.

Given the offence in question, I would normally agree. But then I fail to see the relevance between deliberately seeking out a driver after an incident, and seeing the stewards at work. I may have been wrong in believing there was more to the punishment than simply the incident in the weighing room, but the penalty as imposed did seem to point to a more general problem with young Verstappen's conduct on and off the track.

Exediron wrote:

Siao7 wrote:They used to make them participate in road safety campaigns.

I guess they do not regard Max safe enough!!!

No, Max said he wouldn't do anything humiliating. Exactly why he has a choice in what his punishment is, however, is another matter.

Well, punishment is usually humbling in some way, and normally, one has no choice in what is imposed. Spoiler alert... The "punishment" served to date is worthless. There is absolutely nothing in the duty served so far that will teach this hard-headed teen anything at all.

Yet to be seen is whether such mamby-pamby punishment will only embolden him to be even more hard-headed in future.

Jezza13 wrote:His punishment was 2 days "community" or "public" service. Call it what you like, I don't care.

Now, how, by any stretch of the imagination, can being forced to attend a motor race and hang out with the stewards while they do their job be construed as performing a "community" or "public" service?

That's a very, very long bow to draw. If his punishment was a 2 day "educational" program or something like that, then fair enough, I could understand why he was made to sit in with the stewards, but community or public service? Come on. That's laughable. We're being played for fools here by the Verstappen camp, Red Bull & the FIA.

What actual community or public service did he perform in Marrakesh anyway? Does anyone know because as far as i'm concerned what he did was definitely not in either of those categories?

Good point Verstappen clearly did not perform a community service, maybe they did bow to Verstappen's unwillingness to do certain things?

MB-BOB wrote:

Exediron wrote:

Siao7 wrote:They used to make them participate in road safety campaigns.

I guess they do not regard Max safe enough!!!

No, Max said he wouldn't do anything humiliating. Exactly why he has a choice in what his punishment is, however, is another matter.

Well, punishment is usually humbling in some way, and normally, one has no choice in what is imposed. Spoiler alert... The "punishment" served to date is worthless. There is absolutely nothing in the duty served so far that will teach this hard-headed teen anything at all.

Yet to be seen is whether such mamby-pamby punishment will only embolden him to be even more hard-headed in future.

Perhaps during his visit it was pointed out to him he no longer is a teen? (Sorry, I couldn't resist...)

pokerman wrote:

Jezza13 wrote:His punishment was 2 days "community" or "public" service. Call it what you like, I don't care.

Now, how, by any stretch of the imagination, can being forced to attend a motor race and hang out with the stewards while they do their job be construed as performing a "community" or "public" service?

That's a very, very long bow to draw. If his punishment was a 2 day "educational" program or something like that, then fair enough, I could understand why he was made to sit in with the stewards, but community or public service? Come on. That's laughable. We're being played for fools here by the Verstappen camp, Red Bull & the FIA.

What actual community or public service did he perform in Marrakesh anyway? Does anyone know because as far as i'm concerned what he did was definitely not in either of those categories?

Good point Verstappen clearly did not perform a community service, maybe they did bow to Verstappen's unwillingness to do certain things?

I'd have him scooping the side of the road just for his "I won't do anything degrading" comments to be honest...

Siao7 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Jezza13 wrote:His punishment was 2 days "community" or "public" service. Call it what you like, I don't care.

Now, how, by any stretch of the imagination, can being forced to attend a motor race and hang out with the stewards while they do their job be construed as performing a "community" or "public" service?

That's a very, very long bow to draw. If his punishment was a 2 day "educational" program or something like that, then fair enough, I could understand why he was made to sit in with the stewards, but community or public service? Come on. That's laughable. We're being played for fools here by the Verstappen camp, Red Bull & the FIA.

What actual community or public service did he perform in Marrakesh anyway? Does anyone know because as far as i'm concerned what he did was definitely not in either of those categories?

Good point Verstappen clearly did not perform a community service, maybe they did bow to Verstappen's unwillingness to do certain things?

I'd have him scooping the side of the road just for his "I won't do anything degrading" comments to be honest...

Yeah it's quite noticeable what he can get away with, calling a steward a mongol and the like.

pokerman wrote:

Siao7 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Jezza13 wrote:His punishment was 2 days "community" or "public" service. Call it what you like, I don't care.

Now, how, by any stretch of the imagination, can being forced to attend a motor race and hang out with the stewards while they do their job be construed as performing a "community" or "public" service?

That's a very, very long bow to draw. If his punishment was a 2 day "educational" program or something like that, then fair enough, I could understand why he was made to sit in with the stewards, but community or public service? Come on. That's laughable. We're being played for fools here by the Verstappen camp, Red Bull & the FIA.

What actual community or public service did he perform in Marrakesh anyway? Does anyone know because as far as i'm concerned what he did was definitely not in either of those categories?

Good point Verstappen clearly did not perform a community service, maybe they did bow to Verstappen's unwillingness to do certain things?

I'd have him scooping the side of the road just for his "I won't do anything degrading" comments to be honest...

Yeah it's quite noticeable what he can get away with, calling a steward a mongol and the like.

I forgot about that. The fact that he is still young leaves me cold frankly, he is in his 4th year in F1 now, he's hardly a rookie. He should have known (or at worst case scenario be advised) better.

Yeah, definitely scooping the road, at a big city as well!

Siao7 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Jezza13 wrote:His punishment was 2 days "community" or "public" service. Call it what you like, I don't care.

Now, how, by any stretch of the imagination, can being forced to attend a motor race and hang out with the stewards while they do their job be construed as performing a "community" or "public" service?

That's a very, very long bow to draw. If his punishment was a 2 day "educational" program or something like that, then fair enough, I could understand why he was made to sit in with the stewards, but community or public service? Come on. That's laughable. We're being played for fools here by the Verstappen camp, Red Bull & the FIA.

What actual community or public service did he perform in Marrakesh anyway? Does anyone know because as far as i'm concerned what he did was definitely not in either of those categories?

Good point Verstappen clearly did not perform a community service, maybe they did bow to Verstappen's unwillingness to do certain things?

I'd have him scooping the side of the road just for his "I won't do anything degrading" comments to be honest...

If someone says they won't do anything degrading and you then give them the lightest community service imaginable, it's pretty obvious where the power lies.

Exediron wrote:

Siao7 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Jezza13 wrote:His punishment was 2 days "community" or "public" service. Call it what you like, I don't care.

Now, how, by any stretch of the imagination, can being forced to attend a motor race and hang out with the stewards while they do their job be construed as performing a "community" or "public" service?

That's a very, very long bow to draw. If his punishment was a 2 day "educational" program or something like that, then fair enough, I could understand why he was made to sit in with the stewards, but community or public service? Come on. That's laughable. We're being played for fools here by the Verstappen camp, Red Bull & the FIA.

What actual community or public service did he perform in Marrakesh anyway? Does anyone know because as far as i'm concerned what he did was definitely not in either of those categories?

Good point Verstappen clearly did not perform a community service, maybe they did bow to Verstappen's unwillingness to do certain things?

I'd have him scooping the side of the road just for his "I won't do anything degrading" comments to be honest...

If someone says they won't do anything degrading and you then give them the lightest community service imaginable, it's pretty obvious where the power lies.

That's the thing though....It wasn't even community service.

I think it was plain to see in the wording of the FIA press release into the incident that they intended to treat Verstappen in the manner he's become accustomed to.

That press release was about as forceful as being flogged with a wet lettuce leaf. It practically said "We're sorry Max. We really don't want to do this and upset you but we have to do something. Don't worry, we'll be gentle".

I'd have him spending time helping out in hospitals or homeless shelters or something like that. If he feels he's too good to be helping those people, my response would be simple. "Rightio Max. You're refusing to serve your 2 days service as directed, then we're refusing to allow you to participate in the first 2 races of the season. See you in China buddy boy".

Problem with that is, there'd then be lawyers at 10 paces but at least the FIA would actually be applauded for having go and showing they're not going to put up with his continued petulant & egotistical approach to the sport and the people in it.

That press release was about as forceful as being flogged with a wet lettuce leaf. It practically said "We're sorry Max. We really don't want to do this and upset you but we have to do something. Don't worry, we'll be gentle".

Agree, an example of the FIA showing pathetically weak leadership, however, realistically the FIA don't sanction drivers, teams occasionally, but very weak on drivers. This won't change him expect more belligerence. Great driver but horrible individual.

Option or Prime wrote:

That press release was about as forceful as being flogged with a wet lettuce leaf. It practically said "We're sorry Max. We really don't want to do this and upset you but we have to do something. Don't worry, we'll be gentle".

Agree, an example of the FIA showing pathetically weak leadership, however, realistically the FIA don't sanction drivers, teams occasionally, but very weak on drivers. This won't change him expect more belligerence. Great driver but horrible individual.

Depends on who the transgressor is it seems.

They had no such issues with weak leadership when they benched Grosjean for a race.