2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

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j man
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by j man »

UnlikeUday wrote:Verstappen assumed because Ocon was getting lapped, he would slow down but Ocon continued on his pace. Shouldn't Verstappen seen his mirrors or just been cautious enough to give him some room nonetheless?

Will Verstappen face some heat for physically shoving a driver? I doubt but it could've gotten more violent!

I'm not sure that's quite what happened. I understand that Ocon had just pitted and was on new supersoft tyres so he wasn't being lapped, he was unlapping himself because he was faster at that point.

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Toby.
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Toby. »

Max needs to grow up, regardless of what happens on the track. Excessive swearing on the worldwide broadcast is one thing, but getting physical with another driver crosses a line.

Plus he's a fairly small guy so he probably shouldn't be picking fist fights.
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j man
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by j man »

The great irony here is that a lapped Jos Verstappen punted Montoya out of the lead at this race 17 years ago...

Greenman
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Greenman »

.

Well the Stewards "bottled it" with Vettel's penalty, let us see if they have the courage to penalise Verstappen much more severely for his assault on Ocon.

That sort of behaviour should be totally unacceptable.

( Likewise it won't do Red Bull's image any good - so they have a challenge to openly discipline him. )

.

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whitewolfarctic
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by whitewolfarctic »

Why don't we just remove the blue flags period? The drama would be ridiculous.

I was really surprised by Lewis today. What he did on those tires was really impressive. Thought for sure he was going to have to stop again. Also Kimi showing great form. Shame he only has one race left with Ferrari.

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Toby.
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Toby. »

Red Bull talking up Honda for next year. Not sure who they're trying to fool.
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kleefton
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by kleefton »

Bacus wrote:
kleefton wrote:What a race. So entertaining. Verstappen had it in the bag, but his old habits of not giving enough room, not being sensible in wheel to wheel combat cost him. When will he learn? Not sure. Of course Ocon shouldn't have fought there, but he was just setting up for a good exit and Max just cut him off.
Vettel was nowhere, Kimi outclassed him today. So happy for Lewis. I foresee he will be the underdog next year. You can see that Redbull is coming, and Ferrari with Leclerc and Vettel are going to be tough. So for lewis, it's rack up the wins while he still can imho.
I'm sorry but no way that was his fault. I will certainly would've done the same in his place, I wouldn't expect a backmarker to do that AFTER he was passed, no way. It's not like Ocon had the better pace, just that on that sequence, after the straight line, he was close to him.
Nah. When another car is next to you have to leave room, you can't act like they are not there. It's not a matter of expecting or whatever, it's about knowing whether there is a car alongside or not. This happens to Max too often.

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Alienturnedhuman
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

Greenman wrote:.

Well the Stewards "bottled it" with Vettel's penalty, let us see if they have the courage to penalise Verstappen much more severely for his assault on Ocon.

That sort of behaviour should be totally unacceptable.

( Likewise it won't do Red Bull's image any good - so they have a challenge to openly discipline him. )

.
On the contrary, Red Bull are fine with it. Christian Horner said "Ocon is lucky to get away with only a shove."

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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

hahaha. Verstappen. "the penalty says enough that he was wrong" Not the his exact words as i can't quite remember. I know that he's right. But when he gets a penalty. No no no, that is wrong. he did nothing wrong. what a joke. He seems ok about this one now, but i like the way he said the penelty proves ocon was in the wrong when he never accepts blame when he gets a penalty for somethign he's done.

He had a great drive today but i absolutely hate his attitude and personality. Got to say that I'm starting to really dislike alonso too. The team made a mistake but he looked like he didn't have a care in the world after that. almost looking like he was trying to get in the way of the leaders. Clearly not using all his pace. with an attitude like his, he should
be giving his replacement for next year a practice race.

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whitewolfarctic
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by whitewolfarctic »

Toby. wrote:Max needs to grow up, regardless of what happens on the track. Excessive swearing on the worldwide broadcast is one thing, but getting physical with another driver crosses a line.

Plus he's a fairly small guy so he probably shouldn't be picking fist fights.


He got excessively physical. One shove was crossing the line, but to keep doing it was really foolish. I would imagine some drivers throwing some punches if the same was done to them. Ocon kept his cool surprisingly well.

lucifers
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by lucifers »

whitewolfarctic wrote:Why don't we just remove the blue flags period? The drama would be ridiculous.

I was really surprised by Lewis today. What he did on those tires was really impressive. Thought for sure he was going to have to stop again. Also Kimi showing great form. Shame he only has one race left with Ferrari.
kimi was not going to give that position up I'm really impressed by him

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Black_Flag_11
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

UnlikeUday wrote:Verstappen's ego stands in the way of his maturity. Verstappen getting violent with Ocon in the video with Ocon:
Oh man this guy is going to be incredible for F1 when championships are on the line, I can't wait for all the drama :]

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whitewolfarctic
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by whitewolfarctic »

lucifers wrote:
whitewolfarctic wrote:Why don't we just remove the blue flags period? The drama would be ridiculous.

I was really surprised by Lewis today. What he did on those tires was really impressive. Thought for sure he was going to have to stop again. Also Kimi showing great form. Shame he only has one race left with Ferrari.
kimi was not going to give that position up I'm really impressed by him
After the Summer break he has been the surperior Ferrari driver but I actually feel bad for Vettel, even as a big Kimi fan. He looks totally destroyed.

Bacus
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Bacus »

kleefton wrote:
Bacus wrote:
kleefton wrote:What a race. So entertaining. Verstappen had it in the bag, but his old habits of not giving enough room, not being sensible in wheel to wheel combat cost him. When will he learn? Not sure. Of course Ocon shouldn't have fought there, but he was just setting up for a good exit and Max just cut him off.
Vettel was nowhere, Kimi outclassed him today. So happy for Lewis. I foresee he will be the underdog next year. You can see that Redbull is coming, and Ferrari with Leclerc and Vettel are going to be tough. So for lewis, it's rack up the wins while he still can imho.
I'm sorry but no way that was his fault. I will certainly would've done the same in his place, I wouldn't expect a backmarker to do that AFTER he was passed, no way. It's not like Ocon had the better pace, just that on that sequence, after the straight line, he was close to him.
Nah. When another car is next to you have to leave room, you can't act like they are not there. It's not a matter of expecting or whatever, it's about knowing whether there is a car alongside or not. This happens to Max too often.
This was not a usual duel. It was a car that was 2 laps down, I don't remember seeing a backmarker going side by side into corners with the LEADER. Unlap on straight or on the braking safely, sure, but not that kind of the risk.
And Max was slightly ahead. I've seen situations like this plenty over the years, backmarker just backs up, is the sensible and logical thing. The penalty shows that Ocon clearly was wrong.

FormulaFun
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by FormulaFun »

Hahahahahaha it's absolutely hilarious watching Verstappen on the end of an I'll advised overtake ruining someone's race. Honestly poetic justice

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Lt. Drebin
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Lt. Drebin »

Idiot of the race is certainly Ocon, and whether there is some hidden story behind in it, or he just wanted to race, now even does not matter. He stained his name for a long time, if not forever.

Impressed by Max, the only guy who made a show today. Vandorne and Hartley showed some spark, too late obviously.
The end is near

sandman1347
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by sandman1347 »

So in general I think Ocon was wrong for being so aggressive as a lapped car when dealing with the leader. That said, Max absolutely took unnecessary risks by being as aggressive as he was. He should not have been so severe with his driving there and he should not have lost this race.

paul_gmb
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by paul_gmb »

ahahaha, this is so funny.

Max is the biggest idiot and will probably never win a championship because of that.

wonder81
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by wonder81 »

My god if this was Lewis early/mid career there would have been a meltdown.

And Christian Horner condoning it. So if Ocan chinned Max in retaliation would that be kool

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Mercedes-Benz
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Mercedes-Benz »

robins13 wrote:https://twitter.com/MaximeB123/status/1 ... 89952?s=19
Max shoving Esteban in weighing area :lol:
Wow. Too bad Ocon was keeping his cool. He had his helmet on hand so he could have used it. lol.

It was unfortunate incident. But the way Max driver I can see him getting involved in many incidents. RBR though were amazing in the race. They seem to have so much grip than others. Ferrari strategy to use soft tyres really din't work in the race as I thought.
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Rockie
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Rockie »

Ok his day is about to get worse, Max has just been summoned by the stewards.

In breach of article 12.1.1c physical contact.

lucifers
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by lucifers »

:thumbup:
FormulaFun wrote:Hahahahahaha it's absolutely hilarious watching Verstappen on the end of an I'll advised overtake ruining someone's race. Honestly poetic justice

kleefton
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by kleefton »

Bacus wrote:
kleefton wrote:
Bacus wrote:
kleefton wrote:What a race. So entertaining. Verstappen had it in the bag, but his old habits of not giving enough room, not being sensible in wheel to wheel combat cost him. When will he learn? Not sure. Of course Ocon shouldn't have fought there, but he was just setting up for a good exit and Max just cut him off.
Vettel was nowhere, Kimi outclassed him today. So happy for Lewis. I foresee he will be the underdog next year. You can see that Redbull is coming, and Ferrari with Leclerc and Vettel are going to be tough. So for lewis, it's rack up the wins while he still can imho.
I'm sorry but no way that was his fault. I will certainly would've done the same in his place, I wouldn't expect a backmarker to do that AFTER he was passed, no way. It's not like Ocon had the better pace, just that on that sequence, after the straight line, he was close to him.
Nah. When another car is next to you have to leave room, you can't act like they are not there. It's not a matter of expecting or whatever, it's about knowing whether there is a car alongside or not. This happens to Max too often.
This was not a usual duel. It was a car that was 2 laps down, I don't remember seeing a backmarker going side by side into corners with the LEADER. Unlap on straight or on the braking safely, sure, but not that kind of the risk.
And Max was slightly ahead. I've seen situations like this plenty over the years, backmarker just backs up, is the sensible and logical thing. The penalty shows that Ocon clearly was wrong.
Ocon was told by his team that he was allowed to unlap himself. He actually asked for permission and they said go for it. I guess you can blame the team for that if you want. But to me it doesn't even really matter, because cars are allowed to unlap themselves if they are faster at any point, and Ocon was faster for 2 laps reportedly. So to me,it's just another example of of the "get out of my way" verstappen driving style gone wrong, which has and will cost him many positions in his career if he doesn't adjust it.

Kudos for Lewis for trying to teach him in the green room :thumbup:

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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

whitewolfarctic wrote:
Toby. wrote:Max needs to grow up, regardless of what happens on the track. Excessive swearing on the worldwide broadcast is one thing, but getting physical with another driver crosses a line.

Plus he's a fairly small guy so he probably shouldn't be picking fist fights.


He got excessively physical. One shove was crossing the line, but to keep doing it was really foolish. I would imagine some drivers throwing some punches if the same was done to them. Ocon kept his cool surprisingly well.
:thumbup:

Plus, he basically announced it over radio, so it was deliberate. IMO, a one-race ban for Verstappen would be appropriate.

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Alienturnedhuman
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

Rockie wrote:Ok his day is about to get worse, Max has just been summoned by the stewards.

In breach of article 12.1.1c physical contact.
Ocon should have given him more space on the weighing scales, then there wouldn't have been contact, he was a backmarker after all.

shay550
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by shay550 »

kleefton wrote:
Bacus wrote:
kleefton wrote:
Bacus wrote:
kleefton wrote:What a race. So entertaining. Verstappen had it in the bag, but his old habits of not giving enough room, not being sensible in wheel to wheel combat cost him. When will he learn? Not sure. Of course Ocon shouldn't have fought there, but he was just setting up for a good exit and Max just cut him off.
Vettel was nowhere, Kimi outclassed him today. So happy for Lewis. I foresee he will be the underdog next year. You can see that Redbull is coming, and Ferrari with Leclerc and Vettel are going to be tough. So for lewis, it's rack up the wins while he still can imho.
I'm sorry but no way that was his fault. I will certainly would've done the same in his place, I wouldn't expect a backmarker to do that AFTER he was passed, no way. It's not like Ocon had the better pace, just that on that sequence, after the straight line, he was close to him.
Nah. When another car is next to you have to leave room, you can't act like they are not there. It's not a matter of expecting or whatever, it's about knowing whether there is a car alongside or not. This happens to Max too often.
This was not a usual duel. It was a car that was 2 laps down, I don't remember seeing a backmarker going side by side into corners with the LEADER. Unlap on straight or on the braking safely, sure, but not that kind of the risk.
And Max was slightly ahead. I've seen situations like this plenty over the years, backmarker just backs up, is the sensible and logical thing. The penalty shows that Ocon clearly was wrong.
Ocon was told by his team that he was allowed to unlap himself. He actually asked for permission and they said go for it. I guess you can blame the team for that if you want. But to me it doesn't even really matter, because cars are allowed to unlap themselves if they are faster at any point, and Ocon was faster for 2 laps reportedly. So to me,it's just another example of of the "get out of my way" verstappen driving style gone wrong, which has and will cost him many positions in his career if he doesn't adjust it.

Kudos for Lewis for trying to teach him in the green room :thumbup:
Yup that was like a Jedi Master passing down knowledge to a Padawan learner.

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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Bacus »

kleefton wrote:
Bacus wrote:
kleefton wrote:
Bacus wrote:
kleefton wrote:What a race. So entertaining. Verstappen had it in the bag, but his old habits of not giving enough room, not being sensible in wheel to wheel combat cost him. When will he learn? Not sure. Of course Ocon shouldn't have fought there, but he was just setting up for a good exit and Max just cut him off.
Vettel was nowhere, Kimi outclassed him today. So happy for Lewis. I foresee he will be the underdog next year. You can see that Redbull is coming, and Ferrari with Leclerc and Vettel are going to be tough. So for lewis, it's rack up the wins while he still can imho.
I'm sorry but no way that was his fault. I will certainly would've done the same in his place, I wouldn't expect a backmarker to do that AFTER he was passed, no way. It's not like Ocon had the better pace, just that on that sequence, after the straight line, he was close to him.
Nah. When another car is next to you have to leave room, you can't act like they are not there. It's not a matter of expecting or whatever, it's about knowing whether there is a car alongside or not. This happens to Max too often.
This was not a usual duel. It was a car that was 2 laps down, I don't remember seeing a backmarker going side by side into corners with the LEADER. Unlap on straight or on the braking safely, sure, but not that kind of the risk.
And Max was slightly ahead. I've seen situations like this plenty over the years, backmarker just backs up, is the sensible and logical thing. The penalty shows that Ocon clearly was wrong.
Ocon was told by his team that he was allowed to unlap himself. He actually asked for permission and they said go for it. I guess you can blame the team for that if you want. But to me it doesn't even really matter, because cars are allowed to unlap themselves if they are faster at any point, and Ocon was faster for 2 laps reportedly. So to me,it's just another example of of the "get out of my way" verstappen driving style gone wrong, which has and will cost him many positions in his career if he doesn't adjust it.

Kudos for Lewis for trying to teach him in the green room :thumbup:
You're missing the point, it's not about whether you're allowed or not to unlap yourself, you are. Just that it's not a normal duel, you can't muscle into corners like its for position. It's about the context. That's the point.
I think you're taking this in a biased way because it's Verstappen. Clearly the stewards thought otherwise.
The driving asperities which Max has are nothing compared to his huge talent. He will be fine.

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MB-BOB
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by MB-BOB »

Thought I was watching an F1 post race show, then suddenly a NASCAR post race show emerges... hehehe

Regardless of who was in the right... at the end of the day, Verstappen gambled and lost a race he should have won. He could have let Ocon take the corner, knowing that he could repass him on the straight that followed.

As Hamilton told Max in the Green Room, "You had more to lose than he did." This is the type of reasoned racecraft that emerges with age and experience. Hamilton has it, Verstappen doesn't (yet).
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shay550
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by shay550 »

MB-BOB wrote:Thought I was watching an F1 post race show, then suddenly a NASCAR post race show emerges... hehehe

Regardless of who was in the right... at the end of the day, Verstappen gambled and lost a race he should have won. He could have let Ocon take the corner, knowing that he could repass him on the straight that followed.

As Hamilton told Max in the Green Room, "You had more to lose than he did." This is the type of reasoned racecraft that emerges with age and experience. Hamilton has it, Verstappen doesn't (yet).
Hamilton experienced being knocked out of the race the same corner with Hulkenberg in a Force India in 2012. Max will be a better driver for it.

jmc651
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by jmc651 »

Didn't Rosberg do something similar on Hamilton and the Hamilton fans went ballistic at Rosberg

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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Clarky »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Greenman wrote:.

Well the Stewards "bottled it" with Vettel's penalty, let us see if they have the courage to penalise Verstappen much more severely for his assault on Ocon.

That sort of behaviour should be totally unacceptable.

( Likewise it won't do Red Bull's image any good - so they have a challenge to openly discipline him. )

.
On the contrary, Red Bull are fine with it. Christian Horner said "Ocon is lucky to get away with only a shove."
So Horner is condoning such actions!

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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Bacus »

shay550 wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:Thought I was watching an F1 post race show, then suddenly a NASCAR post race show emerges... hehehe

Regardless of who was in the right... at the end of the day, Verstappen gambled and lost a race he should have won. He could have let Ocon take the corner, knowing that he could repass him on the straight that followed.

As Hamilton told Max in the Green Room, "You had more to lose than he did." This is the type of reasoned racecraft that emerges with age and experience. Hamilton has it, Verstappen doesn't (yet).
Hamilton experienced being knocked out of the race the same corner with Hulkenberg in a Force India in 2012. Max will be a better driver for it.
And with Hamilton was a direct battle for position, and that was hard to swallow, especially not being his fault.
With a backmarker is a lot worse.

j man
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by j man »

shay550 wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:Thought I was watching an F1 post race show, then suddenly a NASCAR post race show emerges... hehehe

Regardless of who was in the right... at the end of the day, Verstappen gambled and lost a race he should have won. He could have let Ocon take the corner, knowing that he could repass him on the straight that followed.

As Hamilton told Max in the Green Room, "You had more to lose than he did." This is the type of reasoned racecraft that emerges with age and experience. Hamilton has it, Verstappen doesn't (yet).
Hamilton experienced being knocked out of the race the same corner with Hulkenberg in a Force India in 2012. Max will be a better driver for it.
An even bigger lesson for Lewis came at the Belgian GP the year before when he tripped over Kobayashi while trying to lap him.

Lewis did have a few incidents earlier in his career, but he took the criticism on board and learned from it. Verstappen is not, and the people around him are not helping the situation by stroking his ego and telling him he's done nothing wrong whenever he does something wrong.

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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Jezza13 »

Rockie wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:Verstappen's ego stands in the way of his maturity. Verstappen getting violent with Ocon in the video with Ocon:
This guy is going to be unstoppable soon.

In other news Ricciardo finished a race after all the retirements.
Depends on his car doesn't it?

And yeah good to see Ricciardo had a trouble free race. Too bad it was the first race where, no matter what happened, he had no chance to overtake his team mate in the championship standings.

Coincidence is a crazy thing.
Only took 7 yrs, 5 mths & 21 days.

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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by F1_Ernie »

Clarky wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Greenman wrote:.

Well the Stewards "bottled it" with Vettel's penalty, let us see if they have the courage to penalise Verstappen much more severely for his assault on Ocon.

That sort of behaviour should be totally unacceptable.

( Likewise it won't do Red Bull's image any good - so they have a challenge to openly discipline him. )

.
On the contrary, Red Bull are fine with it. Christian Horner said "Ocon is lucky to get away with only a shove."
So Horner is condoning such actions!
FFS he only shoved someone :lol: the over reaction is a good laugh.
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whitewolfarctic
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by whitewolfarctic »

If Lewis was in that position instead of Verstappen, that accident would have never happened. Obviously Verstappen is very young so it's natural he may not always weigh the risk of his actions, but because of his mistake he didn't deserve the race win in my opinion. Yes, Lewis was lucky but the Ocon/Verstappen incident could have been avoided. His behavior with the shoving was completely unacceptable and he deserves a penalty for it.

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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Clarky »

F1_Ernie wrote:
Clarky wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Greenman wrote:.

Well the Stewards "bottled it" with Vettel's penalty, let us see if they have the courage to penalise Verstappen much more severely for his assault on Ocon.

That sort of behaviour should be totally unacceptable.

( Likewise it won't do Red Bull's image any good - so they have a challenge to openly discipline him. )

.
On the contrary, Red Bull are fine with it. Christian Horner said "Ocon is lucky to get away with only a shove."
So Horner is condoning such actions!
FFS he only shoved someone :lol: the over reaction is a good laugh.
Yeah at least 3 times.

Very professional that!

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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by lucifers »

is bottas and Hamilton on an older spec engine.

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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Clarky »

What happened with Vettel today?

RLKD
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by RLKD »

Ocon is the idiot of the year. It doesn't matter how much pace he had, he should have stayed out of Verstappens way.
Verstappen drove a mega race today and had all the right to take his line like he did. Ocon should have given him the space.
And then the drama because Max "pushed" him ? Come on .
If Ocon had any common sense he should appologize to Max big time.

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