Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

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How will Ricciardo's move to Renault play out long-term?

Poll ended at Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:39 am

Successfully; Ricciardo will have more success at Renault than he would have had at Red Bull
27
42%
Unsuccessfully; he would have had more success if he had stayed at Red Bull
38
58%
 
Total votes: 65

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Exediron
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Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by Exediron »

So, the move is made. The shoe has dropped, the Domino has fallen, and many other cliche phrases to describe a decisive moment as well. Ricciardo is going to Renault, leaving behind the team and company that have looked after his entire Formula 1 career so far. It'll be a big change to leave it all behind, and a big gamble.

But will it pay off? The thing with any gamble is that it's not a sure thing, and this is far from certain. On the face of it, Dan is leaving behind what is currently one of only three teams in the 'A' class of F1. He's going to what is currently the strongest outfit in the 'B' class, and let us not forget that Renault is a genuine factory team, whereas Red Bull will only ever really be a #1 customer. There's reason to believe the move may work out, not least of which because he'll be leaving a strong teammate behind in favor of one most expect him to handle more easily.

In the past decade, we have two major examples to draw from in terms of a driver leaving their established top team and taking a chance on an outfit they believe will deliver in the future. The two tell a very different story - one a story of wild success and records shattered, the other a cautionary tale of wasted potential and hilarious radio outbursts.

So, the question is: in leaving Red Bull for the up-and-coming Renault factory squad, is Ricciardo setting himself up to be the next Hamilton, or the next Alonso?

(this poll will close before testing next year; I want speculation, not people voting after they know how good the cars are)
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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by Exediron »

I'm going to cast the first vote, and put my own opinion down outside the starting post so that people can vote without reading my opinion if they so choose.

I think it's a good move, and it will result in more success for Ricciardo than he would have had otherwise. Red Bull is clearly building around Verstappen at present, and for one reason or another Ricciardo has been getting firmly outclassed on pure speed by Max lately. He needs a change of scenery; he's never going to win where he is now.

Now, will he be a world champion with Renault? I don't know. Likely not, but Enstone is a proven team, and if Renault invests fully in them I believe they can deliver a title-contending car. I do believe his chances are better with Renault than with Red Bull, however.

Plus, I don't trust that Honda engine as far as I could throw it myself. ;)
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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by Jezza13 »

I can't see it heading south into Alonso territory but will it get to the lofty heights of the Hamilton move? Time will tell.

I voted it'll be a success. Full works team that are heading in the right direction, everything manufactured in house, firm commitment by Renault, Outstanding chance to cement his place as team leader, good recruiting of key personnel by Renault.

I've been saying that I think Renault is his best chance for a WC since about April so i'm happy he made the move and at a guess, I reckon Renault have shown him a plan that has him confident they'll be there or there about in the next few years.

The pressure will now be well and truly on RB and Honda to make their partnership work otherwise both organisations could be in strife.
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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by Remmirath »

My guess is that it will be more of a success than a failure. I have serious doubts about the Honda engine, and Renault does appear to be on an upwards trajectory. Plus, if the Renault comes good, he'll be in a much better position to have the team fully behind him than he is at Red Bull.

Now, of course, it could end up going poorly... but it looks like a good move to me right now.
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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by RaggedMan »

It’s way too soon for me to make such a binary decision on this topic. It’ll be hard for it to be as good as Lewis, or as bad as it has been for Alonso.

Renault’s trajectory is upward but are they willing to throw the amount of money at the team as Mercedes and Ferrari do? I don’t see them making very big in roads on the PU side during this set of regulations so Dan will have to hope that Renault gets a jump on the competition the way Mercedes did in order to have it go as well as it did for Lewis.

On the other hand they would have to be a miserable failure to end up as bad as McLaren/Honda.

If Honda doesn’t improve he made the right call to bail on RBR, but Renault could end up being stuck as best of the rest or a distant 3rd for awhile frittering away his prime years.
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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by robins13 »

If I vote I have to choose option 2 in terms of success. But I doubt he ever going to beat Max in RB. So better option for him is against Hulk in a Renault.

PS : Didn't vote.

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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by Laz_T800 »

Time will tell but I don't think Renault will get their act together anytime soon.
Maybe when the engine changes come in 2021 they will be able to challenge?
He was able to win races with Red Bull.
I really don't see him challenging for any now.

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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by Zoue »

Should be an option another Hulk. I think Dan will probably sink into obscurity with this move. I don’t see Renault being front runners soon and Dan doesn’t have Alinso’s stature that he can weather that unscathed. I see it as a very poor move for him. He had every opportunity at Red Bull but chose not to confront the threat that is Max and I think that will cost him dearly

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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by Jezza13 »

Zoue wrote:Should be an option another Hulk. I think Dan will probably sink into obscurity with this move. I don’t see Renault being front runners soon and Dan doesn’t have Alinso’s stature that he can weather that unscathed. I see it as a very poor move for him. He had every opportunity at Red Bull but chose not to confront the threat that is Max and I think that will cost him dearly
So that's the reason he left RB for Renault was it?
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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

I think it's a good move, I expect him to be ahead of Hulk and establish himself as the effective team leader. He will then be the lead driver in a works team, that's a good place to be in modern F1.

Now Renault themselves are a bit of a stranger one, on the face of it they look promising, Enstone have a recent history of success and they are giving out the impression that all is under control. They said from the beginning that it was a 5 year plan at least to be back at the front and that would put it at 2021 before they expect to be there. There's even a regulation change scheduled for then to boot.

The only thing that concerns me is when I've seen people compare this to Mercedes (and with good reason, 5 year plan, regulation change just as that plan theoretically comes to fruition) I've seen the counter that Mercedes had top budgets in line with RBR/Ferrari whereas Renault currently don't, which if true makes me wonder if Renault are investing enough.
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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by Zoue »

Jezza13 wrote:
Zoue wrote:Should be an option another Hulk. I think Dan will probably sink into obscurity with this move. I don’t see Renault being front runners soon and Dan doesn’t have Alinso’s stature that he can weather that unscathed. I see it as a very poor move for him. He had every opportunity at Red Bull but chose not to confront the threat that is Max and I think that will cost him dearly
So that's the reason he left RB for Renault was it?
I don’t know the reason why he chose to go to Renault. But I do know that he had equal opportunity to win that Max did and I can’t think of any logical reason to choose Renault over Red Bull. History would suggest that Red Bull is the far better bet for success, which makes you wonder just why he feels he can’t make it work there.

Of course, it could be another Hamilton success story when he left McLaren and Mercedes came good, but I don’t see it.

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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by Jezza13 »

Zoue wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
Zoue wrote:Should be an option another Hulk. I think Dan will probably sink into obscurity with this move. I don’t see Renault being front runners soon and Dan doesn’t have Alinso’s stature that he can weather that unscathed. I see it as a very poor move for him. He had every opportunity at Red Bull but chose not to confront the threat that is Max and I think that will cost him dearly
So that's the reason he left RB for Renault was it?
I don’t know the reason why he chose to go to Renault. But I do know that he had equal opportunity to win that Max did and I can’t think of any logical reason to choose Renault over Red Bull. History would suggest that Red Bull is the far better bet for success, which makes you wonder just why he feels he can’t make it work there.

Of course, it could be another Hamilton success story when he left McLaren and Mercedes came good, but I don’t see it.
Oh ok cause I think you've said that a couple times in the last 24hrs so I thought you might know something we don't.

History would also suggest that RB have a tendency to favour 1 driver over the other. Not necessarily equipment wise but in other ways and comments of late coming out of RB suggest he's not that driver. Plus history would suggest a Renault works team is a successful team, while Honda associated teams have been underwhelming to say the least since those heady days with Macca & Williams 30 yrs ago.
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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by Exediron »

Black_Flag_11 wrote:The only thing that concerns me is when I've seen people compare this to Mercedes (and with good reason, 5 year plan, regulation change just as that plan theoretically comes to fruition) I've seen the counter that Mercedes had top budgets in line with RBR/Ferrari whereas Renault currently don't, which if true makes me wonder if Renault are investing enough.
True, but if F1 is soon to be under a $200m budget cap then Renault's budget will slot in at exactly the same as Mercedes/Ferrari/Red Bull in the end.

I also remember seeing a story that Renault promised to increase funding of the team to fight for the championship if they finished 4th this year. They're currently on track to do so, and signing Ricciardo (for a purportedly very high sum) could be taken as a sign that just such an increase is coming.
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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by Lojik »

Sadly I think this is a poor move. Will be interesting to see if Renault start trying to snap up top tier engineering talent in the next year or two to see if they really are serious like Mercedes were before their 2014 renaissance.

As an aside, I don't believe he is fearful of the Verstappen threat, just maybe sees the writing on the wall with regard to team perference. I thought Horner's comments after the Austrian GP win were quite telling saying something like "great day for us with a Red Bull winning at our home track with Max as the winner". Like Max was a preferable winner to Dan? It's possible of course that he didn't mean it that way, it just struck me as odd wording at the time.

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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by Fiki »

When Horner suggested that Verstappen should build the Red Bull team around him*, I think Ricciardo knew what he needed to know.

*https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13240 ... around-him Although you might say Autosport added 2+2 and got 4.5, I still see this interview as confirming the feeling I had all year through in 2017.

Ricciardo is no fool, and a change of team was coming anyway. With Renault the only manufacturer team available, choice was limited.

Edit: I forgot to say I voted successful.
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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by klevispin »

I hope it will be a good move for Ricciardo. I think I read that it’s a two year deal he signed, and I just feel that Renault have a greater chance of being competitive over those two years than Honda have of finally have of getting their stuff together to propel Red Bull to the top.

I’m sure Honda will get there eventually, but I’ve been saying that every year since their return, with few significant signs they are soon to make good on their promise.
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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by iano »

Jezza13 wrote:
Zoue wrote:Should be an option another Hulk. I think Dan will probably sink into obscurity with this move. I don’t see Renault being front runners soon and Dan doesn’t have Alinso’s stature that he can weather that unscathed. I see it as a very poor move for him. He had every opportunity at Red Bull but chose not to confront the threat that is Max and I think that will cost him dearly
So that's the reason he left RB for Renault was it?
There are 3 different opinions on Ricciardo v Verstappen, and it will remain that way regardless of how this year pans out.

The Views:

1. Max is just faster. If he is behind on points it is just because of bad luck. Even if he finishes this year behind, nothing will shake many from this view.

2. Ricciardo is the better overall driver. That is why he is ahead on points, and he would be more ahead if the team treated them equally. Now he is leaving they will treat him even worse so of course if he gets behind on points now it is because of favouritism.

3. (My View) Hard to pick the best of them now, they both have their strengths, but when a 20yr old is even close to even with a 29yr old.... it makes sense for a team to back the 20yr old!!!

Regardless of which of those you believe, in all cases he was going to get 2nd class treatment moving forward at Red Bull. The signing of the contract with Riccardo at a lower rate than Verstappen would have been the formal declaration of being #2.


Reaching the level of Mercedes in the years following Hamilton joining.... unlikely. The culture becoming toxic the way McLaren did with Honda... unlikely.

So the thread title has two options, and both are unlikely! However the poll questions are more measured.

On that basis, all three groups should I suggest it was good move for Ricciardo as logic says no matter which way you feel he was going to be treated as #2, to a team where he is #1.

The weird thing is even though core Max fans will vote he will be worse off. I guess that is because he should be honoured to be #2 to max? Never mind.

And this hiring Ricciardo does suggest Renault getting more serious. If they back this increased investment in the driver with increased focus elsewhere, then they could even be ahead of Red Bull next year. But I disagree Red Bull are destined to remain a customer team. The partnership could get stronger, and Honda are getting better.
Last edited by iano on Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by Option or Prime »

Good move, I think RB were 'stroking' DR, there is no doubt RB will build a good can but its the engine/PU issue surely. Whilst I think Honda will eventually get it together I don't think it will be with this design. The Renault PU is quicker but unreliable, sort that through investment and the marginal difference in driver just falls away.
MV may be a fraction quicker but he lacks DR's cool head and still scores more points. Overall its a good move, perhaps not a winning one but then neither is MV's situation a winning one.
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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by Jenson's Understeer »

In terms of circumstance, it's obviously a good move. He's gone from being paired with a driver who is (and I say this as someone who much prefers Daniel) a faster driver, who it does seem has been earmarked as the favoured driver, to essentially a lead driver position at a factory team.

In terms of whether he'll be a Hamilton or an Alonso, it's impossible to say. We don't know how the Honda and Renault engines will compare in 2019, let alone 2020 and potentially beyond. Red Bull Honda could be the team to be at next year; it could also be another McLaren situation. Similarly, Renault could keep progressing and be the team to take the fight to Mercedes and Ferrari, or they could start to plateau out and not even make the jump to regular podium appearances. The only thing I would be confident predicting is that it won't be an Alonso situation because I don't think Renault will be that bad, at least not in 2019 or 2020 (who knows what'll happen when the regulations change for 2021).
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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by iano »

Lojik wrote:Sadly I think this is a poor move. Will be interesting to see if Renault start trying to snap up top tier engineering talent in the next year or two to see if they really are serious like Mercedes were before their 2014 renaissance.

As an aside, I don't believe he is fearful of the Verstappen threat, just maybe sees the writing on the wall with regard to team perference. I thought Horner's comments after the Austrian GP win were quite telling saying something like "great day for us with a Red Bull winning at our home track with Max as the winner". Like Max was a preferable winner to Dan? It's possible of course that he didn't mean it that way, it just struck me as odd wording at the time.

All good points. What will determine the success of Renault is not just stopping at driver talent. Than being said, I thought I read where some engineering talent at Red Bull had already been poached by Renault? +1 on the writing on the wall, and Ricciardo feeling he is as good as Verstappen.

Red Bull look like idiots giving Verstappen the contract he has if success does not follow, hence words like in Austria.

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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by Rockie »

It's not going to be either of the two, this is going to be a move of Daniel Ricciardo, no driver is going to end up like Alonso again in my opinion.

Redbull relegated him the moment they chose Max also the folks saying he's afraid of Max, like when Vettel was leaving for Ferrari, what will Daniel's gain be trying to beat Max for less money? it makes no sense why not go for the big bucks since in both cars he's not winning the championship and at worse case will finish 7th or 8th instead of 5th or 6th.

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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by kleefton »

I hope he made the right decision, but frankly I have been a little unimpressed with Renault's progress so far. To me they should be the clear 4th best team by now and they are not.They have also made no dent on the gap to Redbull from last year to this year. In fact, they are barely any faster than a 2017 RB on most tracks so far. Maybe they will nail the next round of regulations but I can't see anything to believe that they will. I hope I'm wrong.

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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by 750k2 »

Time will tell - I hope Renault step up and find him a winning rig.
He had no choice Redbull aren't going anywhere.

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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by Johnson »

So longs as he beats Hulk 65-70% of the time in qualifying and general race pace his stock will be very high to step into Ferrari or Mercedes as a Hamilton replacement. I believe this puts him in sync with Hamiltons contract expiry as well as Vettel too?

Let’s face it, even if Honda pulled a miracle with the engine in terms of performance it’s not going to do it with reliability too. Next years Red Bull won’t challenge for the titles.

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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by AravJ »

I vote unsuccessful. If we talking about a three year project then maybe successful. Renault are still in the solid midfield even though the points say fourth they are a long way behind third. I just hope they have something up their sleeves that convinced Dan.

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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by iano »

kleefton wrote:I hope he made the right decision, but frankly I have been a little unimpressed with Renault's progress so far. To me they should be the clear 4th best team by now and they are not.They have also made no dent on the gap to Redbull from last year to this year. In fact, they are barely any faster than a 2017 RB on most tracks so far. Maybe they will nail the next round of regulations but I can't see anything to believe that they will. I hope I'm wrong.
If they spend on Ricciardo's contract, either they are crazy or it is just a part of an overall plan to take things to another level. Of course, even if they do have a plan to step it up, no guarantee of success.

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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by moby »

iano wrote:
kleefton wrote:I hope he made the right decision, but frankly I have been a little unimpressed with Renault's progress so far. To me they should be the clear 4th best team by now and they are not.They have also made no dent on the gap to Redbull from last year to this year. In fact, they are barely any faster than a 2017 RB on most tracks so far. Maybe they will nail the next round of regulations but I can't see anything to believe that they will. I hope I'm wrong.
If they spend on Ricciardo's contract, either they are crazy or it is just a part of an overall plan to take things to another level. Of course, even if they do have a plan to step it up, no guarantee of success.
Depends how 'technical' Ricci is. A couple of afternoon chats in the office could bring that much worth of information to them.

RBR have been running a Renault engine and getting better results, even though Renaults engine men have been in the garage with them.

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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by Mercedes-Benz »

I voted unsuccessful. But I guess he wanted the same contract that MV has and RBR were taking advantage that eventually he would agree as he did not have any good offers. It will interesting to see if he can stand from the competitive midfield. Top3 teams have too much advantage. He will hoping Renault can do better job than Honda. Because with same engine gap to RBR is 1sec. In fact according to some reports Honda engine is lighter, smaller and that could be the reason STR had no problem to switch unlike Mclaren. So probably RBR can build even better car next year.
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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by Mort Canard »

I voted successful but the vote was more aspirational than predictive. There is probably more possibility for downside than success. I hope that Daniel and Renault can make it work.
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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by Zoue »

Jezza13 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
Zoue wrote:Should be an option another Hulk. I think Dan will probably sink into obscurity with this move. I don’t see Renault being front runners soon and Dan doesn’t have Alinso’s stature that he can weather that unscathed. I see it as a very poor move for him. He had every opportunity at Red Bull but chose not to confront the threat that is Max and I think that will cost him dearly
So that's the reason he left RB for Renault was it?
I don’t know the reason why he chose to go to Renault. But I do know that he had equal opportunity to win that Max did and I can’t think of any logical reason to choose Renault over Red Bull. History would suggest that Red Bull is the far better bet for success, which makes you wonder just why he feels he can’t make it work there.

Of course, it could be another Hamilton success story when he left McLaren and Mercedes came good, but I don’t see it.
Oh ok cause I think you've said that a couple times in the last 24hrs so I thought you might know something we don't.

History would also suggest that RB have a tendency to favour 1 driver over the other. Not necessarily equipment wise but in other ways and comments of late coming out of RB suggest he's not that driver. Plus history would suggest a Renault works team is a successful team, while Honda associated teams have been underwhelming to say the least since those heady days with Macca & Williams 30 yrs ago.
history would only suggest that Red Bull is happier with a driver who produces results, but nothing suggests one driver has ever had an unfair advantage over the other.

It’s hard for me to fathom this one, tbh. If I had to guess I’d say it’s a combination of pride and money, possibly coupled with apprehension about being left in the shadow by Max. But my only hope for him is that he knows something I don’t, as otherwise I think it’s a poor move

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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by Exediron »

Interesting how split the votes are, and it reinforces just how much of a leap into the unknown this is. I don't think I've ever seen a vote on this forum get this far along and still be basically 50/50!
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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by Mort Canard »

Exediron wrote:Interesting how split the votes are, and it reinforces just how much of a leap into the unknown this is. I don't think I've ever seen a vote on this forum get this far along and still be basically 50/50!
Might say as much about the optimists vrs the pessimists around here than a clear eyed assessment of Danny's chances going forward.
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iano
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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by iano »

Mort Canard wrote:
Exediron wrote:Interesting how split the votes are, and it reinforces just how much of a leap into the unknown this is. I don't think I've ever seen a vote on this forum get this far along and still be basically 50/50!
Might say as much about the optimists vrs the pessimists around here than a clear eyed assessment of Danny's chances going forward.
Strangely, I suspect it has more to do with those open to Ricciardo doing well and those who feel Ricciardo doing well will in some way cast a negative reflection one or more drivers they support.

Perhaps about 50% have Ricciardo in the list of favoured drivers, and 50% dont. What surprises me is the number who will support one of Verstappen and Ricciardo, but not both.

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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by Glasnost »

For me I knew a move by Dan was comming after Hungry last year, after Max hit Dan you could see on the debrief Dan had with Marko Helmut, Dan looked very angry at whatever Marko had to say and it looked like Marko was partitioning Blame on Dan.

Dan held out for as long as possible for a Merc or Ferrari seat, but ultimately couldn't get one. With all their reliability issues this season, I'm surprised he went with Renault and I'm hoping it was more then the pay check and the need to leave RBR which swayed him.

I think It was the right move, in terms of Dans self esteem and mindset, I dont think he could sign another contract with redbull knowing that Max was the future of the team.

do I think it will work out well?.... in terms of getting wins and podiums.. no. I think we should get used to seeing dan in the P5-P8 range for next year.

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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by iano »

Glasnost wrote:For me I knew a move by Dan was comming after Hungry last year, after Max hit Dan you could see on the debrief Dan had with Marko Helmut, Dan looked very angry at whatever Marko had to say and it looked like Marko was partitioning Blame on Dan.

Dan held out for as long as possible for a Merc or Ferrari seat, but ultimately couldn't get one. With all their reliability issues this season, I'm surprised he went with Renault and I'm hoping it was more then the pay check and the need to leave RBR which swayed him.

I think It was the right move, in terms of Dans self esteem and mindset, I dont think he could sign another contract with redbull knowing that Max was the future of the team.

do I think it will work out well?.... in terms of getting wins and podiums.. no. I think we should get used to seeing dan in the P5-P8 range for next year.
Also long as Red Bull do not fall back in their move to a new engine. Looks good for Red Bull on the basis of Hungary results, where Toro Rosso outclassed Renault. If that continues it will be difficult for Renault to mix it with Honda powered Red Bull and the Ricciardo will be outside that top six.

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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by Toby. »

iano wrote:Looks good for Red Bull on the basis of Hungary results, where Toro Rosso outclassed Renault. If that continues it will be difficult for Renault to mix it with Honda powered Red Bull and the Ricciardo will be outside that top six.
Hungary should not be taken as the norm for Toro Rosso this year, as it firmly was not. Gasly and Hartley were fortunate qualifying was in mixed conditions, and while Gasly drove well to finish in the top 6, Hungary has historically been a good track for Honda since returning.

Keep in mind the McLaren was never competitive with Honda, yet in Hungary Mclaren finished 5th and 9th in 2015, 7th in 2015, and 6th and 10th in 2016. These were in years where McLaren on average finished 10th-11th in races.

Spa and Monza are going to show the real situation Honda is in in 2018 - and I don't think the results are going to be pretty.
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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by Noni »

Exediron wrote:I'm going to cast the first vote, and put my own opinion down outside the starting post so that people can vote without reading my opinion if they so choose.

I think it's a good move, and it will result in more success for Ricciardo than he would have had otherwise. Red Bull is clearly building around Verstappen at present, and for one reason or another Ricciardo has been getting firmly outclassed on pure speed by Max lately. He needs a change of scenery; he's never going to win where he is now.

Now, will he be a world champion with Renault? I don't know. Likely not, but Enstone is a proven team, and if Renault invests fully in them I believe they can deliver a title-contending car. I do believe his chances are better with Renault than with Red Bull, however.

Plus, I don't trust that Honda engine as far as I could throw it myself. ;)
I 100% agree in your comments. I'm not confident on that Honda engine either. What looks like a A' Team Red Bull will switch to Renault and beacome a B' Team. I expect more DNF's with Honda then Renault next year.

Personally despite this shock!.... I think Daniel will be OK and win a few races next year. 2/3 maybe?... Watch this space!.... :)

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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by Noni »

iano wrote:
Glasnost wrote:For me I knew a move by Dan was comming after Hungry last year, after Max hit Dan you could see on the debrief Dan had with Marko Helmut, Dan looked very angry at whatever Marko had to say and it looked like Marko was partitioning Blame on Dan.

Dan held out for as long as possible for a Merc or Ferrari seat, but ultimately couldn't get one. With all their reliability issues this season, I'm surprised he went with Renault and I'm hoping it was more then the pay check and the need to leave RBR which swayed him.

I think It was the right move, in terms of Dans self esteem and mindset, I dont think he could sign another contract with redbull knowing that Max was the future of the team.

do I think it will work out well?.... in terms of getting wins and podiums.. no. I think we should get used to seeing dan in the P5-P8 range for next year.
Also long as Red Bull do not fall back in their move to a new engine. Looks good for Red Bull on the basis of Hungary results, where Toro Rosso outclassed Renault. If that continues it will be difficult for Renault to mix it with Honda powered Red Bull and the Ricciardo will be outside that top six.
I don't agree!... Honda engines have had massive flaws. Red Bull like McLaren have a compact engine space, which does not allow the egine to cool down... Going on next year I expect Red Bull will be struggling with Reliability issues.

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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by moby »

I know I have already posted in this one, but again, what does he have to lose?

He stays at Red Bull, they improve. How man of us think they will improve enough to threaten Ferrari and Merc on a regular toe-to-toe basis? (small number of deluded people say ME)

He goes to Renault, and they stay as the are, they are not going backwards, they suppl y the engine and have improved year on year.

He goes from a team that is 3rd in the championship, to a team that is highly lightly to fight for third, or be 4th.

WE are considering 2 years here. In 2 years, there may be a seat at Ferrari or Merc and he will be in the frame, as he is now. What has he lost?

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Re: Ricciardo's future: Another Hamilton, or another Alonso?

Post by pokerman »

iano wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
Exediron wrote:Interesting how split the votes are, and it reinforces just how much of a leap into the unknown this is. I don't think I've ever seen a vote on this forum get this far along and still be basically 50/50!
Might say as much about the optimists vrs the pessimists around here than a clear eyed assessment of Danny's chances going forward.
Strangely, I suspect it has more to do with those open to Ricciardo doing well and those who feel Ricciardo doing well will in some way cast a negative reflection one or more drivers they support.

Perhaps about 50% have Ricciardo in the list of favoured drivers, and 50% dont. What surprises me is the number who will support one of Verstappen and Ricciardo, but not both.
...or we simply don't see the Renault being as good as the Red Bull in the short term, main benefits for Ricciardo are money and perhaps less chance of losing his reputation so being in a better position when all the top seats become available in 2021.
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