what years are you thinking?mikeyg123 wrote:Raikkonen, Massa and Fissichella have all failed to mount championship runs when in the best or very near best car. Kubica did with the third best car.Paolo_Lasardi wrote:I have seen nothing in his career (nor in this thread) that suggest Kubica was better than likes of Massa, Räikkönen, Heidfeld, Fisichella, etc.
Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
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Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
Oooh let me try this one....Zoue wrote:what years are you thinking?mikeyg123 wrote:Raikkonen, Massa and Fissichella have all failed to mount championship runs when in the best or very near best car. Kubica did with the third best car.Paolo_Lasardi wrote:I have seen nothing in his career (nor in this thread) that suggest Kubica was better than likes of Massa, Räikkönen, Heidfeld, Fisichella, etc.
Raikkonen 2008, 2017
Massa 2007, 2010, 2012
All just off top of head, no idea about the other. I'm sure plenty to argue about in those choices already

Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
Fissichella 2005 and 2006.Zoue wrote:what years are you thinking?mikeyg123 wrote:Raikkonen, Massa and Fissichella have all failed to mount championship runs when in the best or very near best car. Kubica did with the third best car.Paolo_Lasardi wrote:I have seen nothing in his career (nor in this thread) that suggest Kubica was better than likes of Massa, Räikkönen, Heidfeld, Fisichella, etc.
Massa 2006 and perhaps 2010 and 2007 if I'm being really mean about it.
Kimi 2017 and possibly 2012, difficult to know on that one.
All of them have at least one season where what I wrote above would apply without controversy.
Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
well, yeah, but all of them - with the exception of Fisichella - have also mounted championship runs themselves. I'm not sure it's a valid point just because they've had a year or two where it hasn't worked out. I do get what you're trying to say but I'm not sure the comparison stands up. I mean Kubica did well to stay in the running as long as he did but really that's because his rivals were doing their best to take each other out. He inherited the Canada win because of "woodeneye," for example. Circumstance plays a part.mikeyg123 wrote:Fissichella 2005 and 2006.Zoue wrote:what years are you thinking?mikeyg123 wrote:Raikkonen, Massa and Fissichella have all failed to mount championship runs when in the best or very near best car. Kubica did with the third best car.Paolo_Lasardi wrote:I have seen nothing in his career (nor in this thread) that suggest Kubica was better than likes of Massa, Räikkönen, Heidfeld, Fisichella, etc.
Massa 2006 and perhaps 2010 and 2007 if I'm being really mean about it.
Kimi 2017 and possibly 2012, difficult to know on that one.
All of them have at least one season where what I wrote above would apply without controversy.
Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
I was just giving one example that showed Kubica doing something the other drivers mentioned have not. I agree it's not an infallible example but remember I did say none of them had a tittle run when without sitting in a car that was the best or at least close to.Zoue wrote:well, yeah, but all of them - with the exception of Fisichella - have also mounted championship runs themselves. I'm not sure it's a valid point just because they've had a year or two where it hasn't worked out. I do get what you're trying to say but I'm not sure the comparison stands up. I mean Kubica did well to stay in the running as long as he did but really that's because his rivals were doing their best to take each other out. He inherited the Canada win because of "woodeneye," for example. Circumstance plays a part.mikeyg123 wrote:Fissichella 2005 and 2006.Zoue wrote:what years are you thinking?mikeyg123 wrote:Raikkonen, Massa and Fissichella have all failed to mount championship runs when in the best or very near best car. Kubica did with the third best car.Paolo_Lasardi wrote:I have seen nothing in his career (nor in this thread) that suggest Kubica was better than likes of Massa, Räikkönen, Heidfeld, Fisichella, etc.
Massa 2006 and perhaps 2010 and 2007 if I'm being really mean about it.
Kimi 2017 and possibly 2012, difficult to know on that one.
All of them have at least one season where what I wrote above would apply without controversy.
Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
Raikkonen almost beat Schumi to a title with an old spec Mclaren, only a rear wing failure prevented.mikeyg123 wrote:
I was just giving one example that showed Kubica doing something the other drivers mentioned have not. I agree it's not an infallible example but remember I did say none of them had a tittle run when without sitting in a car that was the best or at least close to.
What title challenge did Kubica manage?
Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
2008. The 2003 Mclaren was still at least Almost as good as the Ferrari. I wouldn't argue that Kubica was better than 03-06 Kimi though.Rockie wrote:Raikkonen almost beat Schumi to a title with an old spec Mclaren, only a rear wing failure prevented.mikeyg123 wrote:
I was just giving one example that showed Kubica doing something the other drivers mentioned have not. I agree it's not an infallible example but remember I did say none of them had a tittle run when without sitting in a car that was the best or at least close to.
What title challenge did Kubica manage?
Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
You gotta be joking!mikeyg123 wrote:2008. The 2003 Mclaren was still at least Almost as good as the Ferrari. I wouldn't argue that Kubica was better than 03-06 Kimi though.Rockie wrote:Raikkonen almost beat Schumi to a title with an old spec Mclaren, only a rear wing failure prevented.mikeyg123 wrote:
I was just giving one example that showed Kubica doing something the other drivers mentioned have not. I agree it's not an infallible example but remember I did say none of them had a tittle run when without sitting in a car that was the best or at least close to.
What title challenge did Kubica manage?
Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
You believe Schumacher massively under performed ?Rockie wrote:You gotta be joking!mikeyg123 wrote:2008. The 2003 Mclaren was still at least Almost as good as the Ferrari. I wouldn't argue that Kubica was better than 03-06 Kimi though.Rockie wrote:Raikkonen almost beat Schumi to a title with an old spec Mclaren, only a rear wing failure prevented.mikeyg123 wrote:
I was just giving one example that showed Kubica doing something the other drivers mentioned have not. I agree it's not an infallible example but remember I did say none of them had a tittle run when without sitting in a car that was the best or at least close to.
What title challenge did Kubica manage?
Remember you've told me in the past on another thread that it's not possible for a driver to beat another driver in a faster car....
Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
Kimi's rear wing failure was Hockenheim 2004, no?Rockie wrote:Raikkonen almost beat Schumi to a title with an old spec Mclaren, only a rear wing failure prevented.mikeyg123 wrote:
I was just giving one example that showed Kubica doing something the other drivers mentioned have not. I agree it's not an infallible example but remember I did say none of them had a tittle run when without sitting in a car that was the best or at least close to.
What title challenge did Kubica manage?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhwPSAI-dOo
Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
Why does it have to be either extreme?mikeyg123 wrote:
You believe Schumacher massively under performed ?
Remember you've told me in the past on another thread that it's not possible for a driver to beat another driver in a faster car....
Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
For Kimi to have matched Schumacher in a much inferior car Schumi would have to be well of his way game. And it's you yourself that have said nobody can beat a driver in a better car. That's not my opinion but it is yours.Rockie wrote:Why does it have to be either extreme?mikeyg123 wrote:
You believe Schumacher massively under performed ?
Remember you've told me in the past on another thread that it's not possible for a driver to beat another driver in a faster car....
Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
The second part still stands till date you cant win in an inferior car.mikeyg123 wrote:For Kimi to have matched Schumacher in a much inferior car Schumi would have to be well of his way game. And it's you yourself that have said nobody can beat a driver in a better car. That's not my opinion but it is yours.Rockie wrote:Why does it have to be either extreme?mikeyg123 wrote:
You believe Schumacher massively under performed ?
Remember you've told me in the past on another thread that it's not possible for a driver to beat another driver in a faster car....
You have not answered why it has to be Schumacher under-performing?
Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
Then how did Kimi beat Barrichello in 03?Rockie wrote:The second part still stands till date you cant win in an inferior car.mikeyg123 wrote:For Kimi to have matched Schumacher in a much inferior car Schumi would have to be well of his way game. And it's you yourself that have said nobody can beat a driver in a better car. That's not my opinion but it is yours.Rockie wrote:Why does it have to be either extreme?mikeyg123 wrote:
You believe Schumacher massively under performed ?
Remember you've told me in the past on another thread that it's not possible for a driver to beat another driver in a faster car....
You have not answered why it has to be Schumacher under-performing?
I have answered it. For Kimi to almost match Schumacher in an inferior car then Schumacher must have performed worse than Kimi. Unless you believe the Mclaren was equal to the Ferrari? In which case why bring it up?
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Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
Kubica may yet sign for Ferrari as the development driver for the Scuderia… OR…
He might be getting the drive at Williams after all!!!
It's being reported by several sources that he's been offered the seat. I'll keep my fingers, toes, laces, and everything I can for him.
He might be getting the drive at Williams after all!!!
It's being reported by several sources that he's been offered the seat. I'll keep my fingers, toes, laces, and everything I can for him.
HAMILTON :: VERSTAPPEN :: LECLERC :: BOTTAS :: VETTEL :: SAINZ :: NORRIS
KVYAT :: RAIKKONEN :: RUSSEL :: ALBON :: RICCIARDO :: HULKENBURG :: PEREZ
STROLL :: MAGNUSSEN :: GROSJEAN :: GASLY :: GIOVANAZZI :: KUBICA
KVYAT :: RAIKKONEN :: RUSSEL :: ALBON :: RICCIARDO :: HULKENBURG :: PEREZ
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Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
Yes it makes a good against all the odds story however given that he has to bring money I can't help feel that he's not the driver he once was?F1 MERCENARY wrote:Kubica may yet sign for Ferrari as the development driver for the Scuderia… OR…
He might be getting the drive at Williams after all!!!
It's being reported by several sources that he's been offered the seat. I'll keep my fingers, toes, laces, and everything I can for him.
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Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
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Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
Well you say that.. butBanana Man wrote:Kubica was far superior to Massa. The former only finished 8 points behind the latter, despite one driving a Renault and the other a Ferrari. If Massa couldn't beat Fisichella, Bottas or Heidfeld, he was never going to beat Kubica.Paolo_Lasardi wrote: I doubt that Kubica was ever better than Massa.
Av Fin when both finsihed:
Heidfeld vs Kubica (43): 7.4-7.4 = -0.01*
Heidfeld vs Massa (8): 7.4-7.1 = +0.25
*rounding. Numbers are actually 7.395 - 7.405
So on these stats Kubica and Heidfeld were pretty even, Massa just edged Heidfeld, but Kubica was far superior to Massa.
I agree Kubica was probably better than Massa but if he was SO superior - why doesn't it show - surely he should have a significantly better record against Heidfeld than Massa did?
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Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
I think the data set for Heidfevd vs Massa is too small to draw any real conclusions. I would say that's why it doesn't show.DOLOMITE wrote:Well you say that.. butBanana Man wrote:Kubica was far superior to Massa. The former only finished 8 points behind the latter, despite one driving a Renault and the other a Ferrari. If Massa couldn't beat Fisichella, Bottas or Heidfeld, he was never going to beat Kubica.Paolo_Lasardi wrote: I doubt that Kubica was ever better than Massa.
Av Fin when both finsihed:
Heidfeld vs Kubica (43): 7.4-7.4 = -0.01*
Heidfeld vs Massa (8): 7.4-7.1 = +0.25
*rounding. Numbers are actually 7.395 - 7.405
So on these stats Kubica and Heidfeld were pretty even, Massa just edged Heidfeld, but Kubica was far superior to Massa.
I agree Kubica was probably better than Massa but if he was SO superior - why doesn't it show - surely he should have a significantly better record against Heidfeld than Massa did?
Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
Possibly but we have 3 seasons worth of Kubica vs Heidfeld and surely there would be a bigger gap there if Kubica was as good as some people think?mikeyg123 wrote:I think the data set for Heidfevd vs Massa is too small to draw any real conclusions. I would say that's why it doesn't show.DOLOMITE wrote:Well you say that.. butBanana Man wrote:Kubica was far superior to Massa. The former only finished 8 points behind the latter, despite one driving a Renault and the other a Ferrari. If Massa couldn't beat Fisichella, Bottas or Heidfeld, he was never going to beat Kubica.Paolo_Lasardi wrote: I doubt that Kubica was ever better than Massa.
Av Fin when both finsihed:
Heidfeld vs Kubica (43): 7.4-7.4 = -0.01*
Heidfeld vs Massa (8): 7.4-7.1 = +0.25
*rounding. Numbers are actually 7.395 - 7.405
So on these stats Kubica and Heidfeld were pretty even, Massa just edged Heidfeld, but Kubica was far superior to Massa.
I agree Kubica was probably better than Massa but if he was SO superior - why doesn't it show - surely he should have a significantly better record against Heidfeld than Massa did?
Plus Massa in his debut year showed up pretty well against Heidfeld who was in his 3rd.
I've nothing against Kubica - just never quite bought into the hype sometimes placed on him.
Only won 1 title pre-F1 (and field didn't look that great), 4 Years in F1, 1 x attrition based win, marginally better than Heidfeld...
He drove well in '08, capitalising on the misfortune of others, but the whole WDC challenge is misleading in my opinion. He ultimately placed 4th tied on points with Raikkonen yet the win tally was HAM 5, MAS 6, RAI 2, ALO 2, KUB 1 (when both Hamilton and Raikkonen retired). If anything Massa is the unsung hero of that year.
To be honest I was more impressed with his pre-accident rally exploits. That footage of him flat out in the dark and wet with dodgy headlights was mental.
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Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
And now multiple sources, including Motorsport, are reporting that Kubica has signed for Williams for 2019 to partner Russel, with the official announcement set to be made early this race weekend.
Seems Legitimate enough to say... WooHooooo!
So happy for him. His fight to make it back has to be the most incredibly difficult one ofvany driver I can remember.
Let’s hope the car Williams builds is not an abysmal one like this season.
Seems Legitimate enough to say... WooHooooo!
So happy for him. His fight to make it back has to be the most incredibly difficult one ofvany driver I can remember.
Let’s hope the car Williams builds is not an abysmal one like this season.
HAMILTON :: VERSTAPPEN :: LECLERC :: BOTTAS :: VETTEL :: SAINZ :: NORRIS
KVYAT :: RAIKKONEN :: RUSSEL :: ALBON :: RICCIARDO :: HULKENBURG :: PEREZ
STROLL :: MAGNUSSEN :: GROSJEAN :: GASLY :: GIOVANAZZI :: KUBICA
KVYAT :: RAIKKONEN :: RUSSEL :: ALBON :: RICCIARDO :: HULKENBURG :: PEREZ
STROLL :: MAGNUSSEN :: GROSJEAN :: GASLY :: GIOVANAZZI :: KUBICA
Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
That dark run was a few years after his accident.DOLOMITE wrote:To be honest I was more impressed with his pre-accident rally exploits. That footage of him flat out in the dark and wet with dodgy headlights was mental.
I won't mention the rest of your post, you are wrong but I'm too happy to argue right now

Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
F1 MERCENARY wrote:And now multiple sources, including Motorsport, are reporting that Kubica has signed for Williams for 2019 to partner Russel, with the official announcement set to be made early this race weekend.
Seems Legitimate enough to say... WooHooooo!
So happy for him. His fight to make it back has to be the most incredibly difficult one ofvany driver I can remember.
Let’s hope the car Williams builds is not an abysmal one like this season.

I think Russel's level is fairly clear - and high - so we should get a decent idea of where the car stands. I wouldn't be shocked if the 2019 lineup could take the current car into the points a fair bit more often than we've seen.
If Kubica is close to Russel or ahead I'll be quite impressed, but either way it's a nice feel-good story to have him back on the grid.
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Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
Amazing story. Robert will be 34 when he takes to the grid in Australia next season. The last time he raced an F1 car was in Abu Dhabi in 2010 at the age of 25. I'd bet any amount of money that this is the longest ever hiatus for an F1 driver returning to action. Good for him. Hopefully he's still got it!
Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
Great news! What a comeback story. Him and Russell seem like a stronger driver pairing than Stroll/Sirotkin so I’m curious if they can get into the Torro Rosso, Renault, Haas battle.
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Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
Someone refresh my memory! When is Kubica's expiry date?? 

Mission WinLater
Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
Who knows? He's not too old to be competitive, so that's just down to how well he's kept up his open-wheel skills during his time away from F1.Mort Canard wrote:Someone refresh my memory! When is Kubica's expiry date??
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Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
I'm afraid you would've lost your money! his 9y 4m hiatus would be the third longest absence from the grid.sandman1347 wrote:Amazing story. Robert will be 34 when he takes to the grid in Australia next season. The last time he raced an F1 car was in Abu Dhabi in 2010 at the age of 25. I'd bet any amount of money that this is the longest ever hiatus for an F1 driver returning to action. Good for him. Hopefully he's still got it!
Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
Who's #1 and #2?mikeyg123 wrote:I'm afraid you would've lost your money! his 9y 4m hiatus would be the third longest absence from the grid.sandman1347 wrote:Amazing story. Robert will be 34 when he takes to the grid in Australia next season. The last time he raced an F1 car was in Abu Dhabi in 2010 at the age of 25. I'd bet any amount of money that this is the longest ever hiatus for an F1 driver returning to action. Good for him. Hopefully he's still got it!
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Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
Anyone care to take a guess at this one? Number 2 is particularly memorable...Exediron wrote:Who's #1 and #2?mikeyg123 wrote:I'm afraid you would've lost your money! his 9y 4m hiatus would be the third longest absence from the grid.sandman1347 wrote:Amazing story. Robert will be 34 when he takes to the grid in Australia next season. The last time he raced an F1 car was in Abu Dhabi in 2010 at the age of 25. I'd bet any amount of money that this is the longest ever hiatus for an F1 driver returning to action. Good for him. Hopefully he's still got it!
Edit - Actually it's 8 years and 4 months so that means he's actually 4th on the list not including Indy only drivers.
Last edited by mikeyg123 on Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
NEVERMort Canard wrote:Someone refresh my memory! When is Kubica's expiry date??
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Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
Given his rally skills, I’m willing to bet Kubica will be the faster guy consistently.
Even post accident he was damn fast.
Even post accident he was damn fast.
HAMILTON :: VERSTAPPEN :: LECLERC :: BOTTAS :: VETTEL :: SAINZ :: NORRIS
KVYAT :: RAIKKONEN :: RUSSEL :: ALBON :: RICCIARDO :: HULKENBURG :: PEREZ
STROLL :: MAGNUSSEN :: GROSJEAN :: GASLY :: GIOVANAZZI :: KUBICA
KVYAT :: RAIKKONEN :: RUSSEL :: ALBON :: RICCIARDO :: HULKENBURG :: PEREZ
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Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
Dammit, I don't want to google this, but it is very temptingmikeyg123 wrote:Anyone care to take a guess at this one? Number 2 is particularly memorable...Exediron wrote:Who's #1 and #2?mikeyg123 wrote:I'm afraid you would've lost your money! his 9y 4m hiatus would be the third longest absence from the grid.sandman1347 wrote:Amazing story. Robert will be 34 when he takes to the grid in Australia next season. The last time he raced an F1 car was in Abu Dhabi in 2010 at the age of 25. I'd bet any amount of money that this is the longest ever hiatus for an F1 driver returning to action. Good for him. Hopefully he's still got it!
Edit - Actually it's 8 years and 4 months so that means he's actually 4th on the list not including Indy only drivers.
Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
Okay, I'll take some guesses...mikeyg123 wrote:Anyone care to take a guess at this one? Number 2 is particularly memorable...Exediron wrote:Who's #1 and #2?mikeyg123 wrote:I'm afraid you would've lost your money! his 9y 4m hiatus would be the third longest absence from the grid.sandman1347 wrote:Amazing story. Robert will be 34 when he takes to the grid in Australia next season. The last time he raced an F1 car was in Abu Dhabi in 2010 at the age of 25. I'd bet any amount of money that this is the longest ever hiatus for an F1 driver returning to action. Good for him. Hopefully he's still got it!
Edit - Actually it's 8 years and 4 months so that means he's actually 4th on the list not including Indy only drivers.
My first guess would be Luca Badoer for #2, only since you said it was a particularly memorable driver. I don't think anyone's comeback could be more memorable, albeit not in a good way.

Other names that come to mind would be Lauda (too short), Schumacher (too short)...
Badoer's the only one I'm coming up with. I'm using some self discipline and staying off the search button!
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Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
Good shout, Badoer.Exediron wrote:Okay, I'll take some guesses...mikeyg123 wrote:Anyone care to take a guess at this one? Number 2 is particularly memorable...Exediron wrote:Who's #1 and #2?mikeyg123 wrote:I'm afraid you would've lost your money! his 9y 4m hiatus would be the third longest absence from the grid.sandman1347 wrote:Amazing story. Robert will be 34 when he takes to the grid in Australia next season. The last time he raced an F1 car was in Abu Dhabi in 2010 at the age of 25. I'd bet any amount of money that this is the longest ever hiatus for an F1 driver returning to action. Good for him. Hopefully he's still got it!
Edit - Actually it's 8 years and 4 months so that means he's actually 4th on the list not including Indy only drivers.
My first guess would be Luca Badoer for #2, only since you said it was a particularly memorable driver. I don't think anyone's comeback could be more memorable, albeit not in a good way.![]()
Other names that come to mind would be Lauda (too short), Schumacher (too short)...
Badoer's the only one I'm coming up with. I'm using some self discipline and staying off the search button!
Another 2 to go I guess!
Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
We're talking almost a decade between drinks here.Siao7 wrote:Good shout, Badoer.Exediron wrote:Okay, I'll take some guesses...mikeyg123 wrote: Anyone care to take a guess at this one? Number 2 is particularly memorable...
Edit - Actually it's 8 years and 4 months so that means he's actually 4th on the list not including Indy only drivers.
My first guess would be Luca Badoer for #2, only since you said it was a particularly memorable driver. I don't think anyone's comeback could be more memorable, albeit not in a good way.![]()
Other names that come to mind would be Lauda (too short), Schumacher (too short)...
Badoer's the only one I'm coming up with. I'm using some self discipline and staying off the search button!
Another 2 to go I guess!
I've also pushed out the temptation to google the answer but i'd reckon they'd be 2 pretty obscure drivers or if they we reasonably well known they'd have returned for 1 off drives.
Only took 7 yrs, 5 mths & 21 days.
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Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
Badoer is the least obscure one. One of the others was the one i instantly thought of reading Sandman's post and was a bigger name in sportscars than F1. The other one is very obscure.
Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
Jean Louise Schlesser?mikeyg123 wrote:Badoer is the least obscure one. One of the others was the one i instantly thought of reading Sandman's post and was a bigger name in sportscars than F1. The other one is very obscure.
Italy 1988.
Only took 7 yrs, 5 mths & 21 days.
Cooper, Arrows, Brabham, Ligier, Lotus, Tyrrell, Minardi, McLaren, Sauber, Williams,
Remember the garagista's. The heart & soul of F1. They raced to race.
2017 WCC CPTTC - Jalopy Racing (Herb & Me)
Cooper, Arrows, Brabham, Ligier, Lotus, Tyrrell, Minardi, McLaren, Sauber, Williams,
Remember the garagista's. The heart & soul of F1. They raced to race.
2017 WCC CPTTC - Jalopy Racing (Herb & Me)
Re: Robert Kubica confirms he signed Ferrari deal for 2012
Nope.Jezza13 wrote:Jean Louise Schlesser?mikeyg123 wrote:Badoer is the least obscure one. One of the others was the one i instantly thought of reading Sandman's post and was a bigger name in sportscars than F1. The other one is very obscure.
Italy 1988.