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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:This race was even more boring than Monaco!

Seanie wrote:Christ. 3 DRS zones and i can barely remember there being any overtakes.

Lewis' girlfriend ballsing up the chequered flag was the highlight of an otherwise dull race.

It apparently wasn't her fault, but why was she even up there? What is Liberty's obsession with celebrity? If the race hadn't of been so dull they could have severely ruined the outcome by having to classify 2 laps previous.

blhsing wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

blhsing wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:As some people seem to be thinking, is Bottas having a great season, or is Hamilton not doing so well? The fact now is, if Bottas hadn't retired in Baku, he would be just 2 points behind Hamilton. Bottas 111, Hamilton 113. So If Bottas beat Hamilton next race by finishing 1st 2nd or even 3rd with Hamilton behind (which wouldn't be impossible) He would be ahead in the championship. And that would basically be in the middle of the season. And I don't know if their luck has been that different really if you ignore Baku. Hamilton did have a grid penalty but had a little luck with the retirements ahead. Bottas missed a well deserved win in China. Basically like Hamilton in Australia.

They have both had good and bad luck, but Bottas at this stage clearly a fair bit worse off.

But the fact is, if everyone is saying Hamilton is a top driver and gets the most from his car, is that true at the moment? Or is Bottas more than good enough to deserve this seat? I personally think Hamilton has been ok by his standards. Has been great in several, but poor in others. Bottas had a very bad weeknd start, but to me has not looked much worse than hamilton ever since then at all.

I think Bottas is looking better than he did at the start of last year by quite a bit actually. Hopefully he will keep it up.

If you want to talk about all the what-if's you surely have forgotten the sure-fire win Hamilton would've gotten in the first race if Mercedes did not throw it away during the safety car.

I don't think Hamilton has been at his best this season. Just seems uninspired.

I definitely would not use "uninspiring" to describe Hamilton's first race of the season, where he absolutely dominated, qualifying 0.7s ahead of Raikkonen and Vettel, while Bottas crashed out, and in the race Hamilton was again in a class of his own and was comfortably ahead of Raikkkonen and Vettel until the VSC, when Vettel's delayed pitstop saved him at least 15 seconds and gave him the lead and the win.

Toby. wrote:I'm not sure that can be put down entirely to Hamilton's lack of inspiration. Albert Park is every year a crap racetrack for close racing, and I'm pretty sure the whole event passed without much on-track action. Hell Verstappen spun and then couldn't do a thing despite looking pretty quick before that.

In fact, other than the Red Bulls on softer tyres in China, much of 2018 has been pretty stinkin' boring when it comes to on-track action.

yodasarmpit wrote:That was a really odd race, dull as dish water. It almost felt as if everyone simply settled down into position and didnt even try to catch up to anyone else, let alone try to overtake.

mikeyg123 wrote:Kimi is so lacklustre it's painful. Fastest car by a margin and much fresher tyres and still doesn't get close to an out of form Hamilton.

F1_Ernie wrote:At least Horner says it how it is, 2 stops is the way to go. 1 stop races are rubbish.

Flash2k11 wrote:

F1_Ernie wrote:At least Horner says it how it is, 2 stops is the way to go. 1 stop races are rubbish.

Yeah, not wrong.

Kimi disappointingly slow again, Vettel in a class of his own out front. Mercedes wanna be hoping this delayed upgrade is a serious boost, Ferrari look like they've stolen a march in Vettel's hands.

Jezza13 wrote:

Bacus wrote:I'm sorry but F1 is s!!t these days. I think you have to be 1.5 seconds faster to actually have a chance to overtake.
I'm watching F1 for some 25 years, it seems it's worse than ever.
I've always wondered why supposedly some very bright people who run this sport are able to come up with such defectuos regulations

To appease the manufacturer teams that's why.

F1Tyrant wrote:

Jezza13 wrote:To appease the manufacturer teams that's why.

To be fair, Mercedes are the ones pushing the aero cull next season.

frankwer wrote:Do DRS work when they reach the engine rev limit so fast?

blhsing wrote:

Oasis wrote:Bernie's sprinkler system doesnt seem like such a bad idea anymore

+1

We need more wet races, where driver skills and mechanical grips are more important than aerodynamics and tyre conservation. If wet races have to be artificially produced, so be it.

gregs51 wrote:Mercedes now in real danger of becoming third best car. Unless they find something soon Red Bull will have the upper hand at the more aero tracks. The Ferrari is untouchable now in Vettels hands. There always seems to be something wrong with the Merc setup - tyres, cooling, straight line speed, oversteer, understeer. There is something inherently divaish in the chassis that has been masked by engine superiority.

sidders wrote:I know Merc were running the old engine but just have the feeling that something is not right with Hamilton. Bar a couple of races he has been pretty average and not signed new contract yet. Perhaps he isn't as motivated this year and his time maybe nigh. Would explain some performances

Lt. Drebin wrote:That model had no idea what she was doing and the thing was worse that she just kept waving and waving like there is no tomorrow, even when the track was empty before her.

pokerman wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:Kimi is so lacklustre it's painful. Fastest car by a margin and much fresher tyres and still doesn't get close to an out of form Hamilton.

To be fair Hamilton had an engine issue, I'm not sure with Kimi if it's a case of he knows you can't pass so why bother but still it doesn't look good being dropped by slower cars.

For me the way that Leclerc is demolishing Ericsson I think Ferrari should take a punt on him but Ferrari will probably be cautious and give Kimi one more year plus apparently that's what Vettel wants as well.

pokerman wrote:

F1Tyrant wrote:

Jezza13 wrote:To appease the manufacturer teams that's why.

To be fair, Mercedes are the ones pushing the aero cull next season.

Plus they didn't want these cars in the first place because they knew about the lack of racing.

mikeyg123 wrote:

blhsing wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

blhsing wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:As some people seem to be thinking, is Bottas having a great season, or is Hamilton not doing so well? The fact now is, if Bottas hadn't retired in Baku, he would be just 2 points behind Hamilton. Bottas 111, Hamilton 113. So If Bottas beat Hamilton next race by finishing 1st 2nd or even 3rd with Hamilton behind (which wouldn't be impossible) He would be ahead in the championship. And that would basically be in the middle of the season. And I don't know if their luck has been that different really if you ignore Baku. Hamilton did have a grid penalty but had a little luck with the retirements ahead. Bottas missed a well deserved win in China. Basically like Hamilton in Australia.

They have both had good and bad luck, but Bottas at this stage clearly a fair bit worse off.

But the fact is, if everyone is saying Hamilton is a top driver and gets the most from his car, is that true at the moment? Or is Bottas more than good enough to deserve this seat? I personally think Hamilton has been ok by his standards. Has been great in several, but poor in others. Bottas had a very bad weeknd start, but to me has not looked much worse than hamilton ever since then at all.

I think Bottas is looking better than he did at the start of last year by quite a bit actually. Hopefully he will keep it up.

If you want to talk about all the what-if's you surely have forgotten the sure-fire win Hamilton would've gotten in the first race if Mercedes did not throw it away during the safety car.

I don't think Hamilton has been at his best this season. Just seems uninspired.

I definitely would not use "uninspiring" to describe Hamilton's first race of the season, where he absolutely dominated, qualifying 0.7s ahead of Raikkonen and Vettel, while Bottas crashed out, and in the race Hamilton was again in a class of his own and was comfortably ahead of Raikkkonen and Vettel until the VSC, when Vettel's delayed pitstop saved him at least 15 seconds and gave him the lead and the win.

But the lack of fight after that happened was.

pokerman wrote:

Flash2k11 wrote:

F1_Ernie wrote:At least Horner says it how it is, 2 stops is the way to go. 1 stop races are rubbish.

Yeah, not wrong.

Kimi disappointingly slow again, Vettel in a class of his own out front. Mercedes wanna be hoping this delayed upgrade is a serious boost, Ferrari look like they've stolen a march in Vettel's hands.

I guess you must be sleeping on the season thus far, the Vettel/Ferrari combo are the fastest masked by bad luck otherwise Vettel would be well clear by now, Vettel for me is the clear favourite for the title.

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:Kimi is so lacklustre it's painful. Fastest car by a margin and much fresher tyres and still doesn't get close to an out of form Hamilton.

To be fair Hamilton had an engine issue, I'm not sure with Kimi if it's a case of he knows you can't pass so why bother but still it doesn't look good being dropped by slower cars.

For me the way that Leclerc is demolishing Ericsson I think Ferrari should take a punt on him but Ferrari will probably be cautious and give Kimi one more year plus apparently that's what Vettel wants as well.

The engine issue was resolved in the pit stops . They gave him more cooling and afterwards confirmed that they had fixed the issue.

Kimi also had an older spec Ferrari PU, don't forget - he didn't get the upgrades Vettel did and I don't think it's true to say he had the fastest car by a margin - but yes I was disappointed in him. At one point it looked like he would have been in a position to take the place off Hamilton, but Ferrari kept him out too long and the opportunity was lost. I don't think overtaking on track was ever on the cards. None of the front runners could do it

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

F1Tyrant wrote:

Jezza13 wrote:To appease the manufacturer teams that's why.

To be fair, Mercedes are the ones pushing the aero cull next season.

Plus they didn't want these cars in the first place because they knew about the lack of racing.

I'm sure wanting to keep the status quo never crossed their minds!

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Flash2k11 wrote:

F1_Ernie wrote:At least Horner says it how it is, 2 stops is the way to go. 1 stop races are rubbish.

Yeah, not wrong.

Kimi disappointingly slow again, Vettel in a class of his own out front. Mercedes wanna be hoping this delayed upgrade is a serious boost, Ferrari look like they've stolen a march in Vettel's hands.

I guess you must be sleeping on the season thus far, the Vettel/Ferrari combo are the fastest masked by bad luck otherwise Vettel would be well clear by now, Vettel for me is the clear favourite for the title.

It's fluctuated race by race

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Flash2k11 wrote:

F1_Ernie wrote:At least Horner says it how it is, 2 stops is the way to go. 1 stop races are rubbish.

Yeah, not wrong.

Kimi disappointingly slow again, Vettel in a class of his own out front. Mercedes wanna be hoping this delayed upgrade is a serious boost, Ferrari look like they've stolen a march in Vettel's hands.

I guess you must be sleeping on the season thus far, the Vettel/Ferrari combo are the fastest masked by bad luck otherwise Vettel would be well clear by now, Vettel for me is the clear favourite for the title.

It's fluctuated race by race

As an overview, do we say the Red Bull is the fastest car because it was the quickest at Monaco, the Ferrari has been the quickest more often.

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:Kimi is so lacklustre it's painful. Fastest car by a margin and much fresher tyres and still doesn't get close to an out of form Hamilton.

To be fair Hamilton had an engine issue, I'm not sure with Kimi if it's a case of he knows you can't pass so why bother but still it doesn't look good being dropped by slower cars.

For me the way that Leclerc is demolishing Ericsson I think Ferrari should take a punt on him but Ferrari will probably be cautious and give Kimi one more year plus apparently that's what Vettel wants as well.

The engine issue was resolved in the pit stops . They gave him more cooling and afterwards confirmed that they had fixed the issue.

Kimi also had an older spec Ferrari PU, don't forget - he didn't get the upgrades Vettel did and I don't think it's true to say he had the fastest car by a margin - but yes I was disappointed in him. At one point it looked like he would have been in a position to take the place off Hamilton, but Ferrari kept him out too long and the opportunity was lost. I don't think overtaking on track was ever on the cards. None of the front runners could do it

The ruined first stint, lack of pace and having to stop early very much did for Hamilton's race and also gave the impression to some of him driving badly, it cost him at least 4th place.

As for Kimi I had forgotten about Kimi's engine but still unlike the Mercedes engines it was more within it's quota of usage.

mds wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Flash2k11 wrote:
Yeah, not wrong.

Kimi disappointingly slow again, Vettel in a class of his own out front. Mercedes wanna be hoping this delayed upgrade is a serious boost, Ferrari look like they've stolen a march in Vettel's hands.

I guess you must be sleeping on the season thus far, the Vettel/Ferrari combo are the fastest masked by bad luck otherwise Vettel would be well clear by now, Vettel for me is the clear favourite for the title.

It's fluctuated race by race

As an overview, do we say the Red Bull is the fastest car because it was the quickest at Monaco, the Ferrari has been the quickest more often.

Race pace:
Australia: Mercedes
Bahrain: Tie (given how close it was at the end, given how Hamilton at his best is faster than Bottas)
China: inclined to say Tie, given Bottas kept close first stint, then undercut, then Vettel kept close second stint?
Azerbaijan: Ferrari
Spain: Mercedes
Monaco: Ferrari
Canada: Ferrari

Qualifying: speaks for itself, Ferrari

Concluding, yes, Ferrari overall have been better.

Zoue wrote:

mds wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote: I guess you must be sleeping on the season thus far, the Vettel/Ferrari combo are the fastest masked by bad luck otherwise Vettel would be well clear by now, Vettel for me is the clear favourite for the title.

It's fluctuated race by race

As an overview, do we say the Red Bull is the fastest car because it was the quickest at Monaco, the Ferrari has been the quickest more often.

Race pace:
Australia: Mercedes
Bahrain: Tie (given how close it was at the end, given how Hamilton at his best is faster than Bottas)
China: inclined to say Tie, given Bottas kept close first stint, then undercut, then Vettel kept close second stint?
Azerbaijan: Ferrari
Spain: Mercedes
Monaco: Ferrari
Canada: Ferrari

Qualifying: speaks for itself, Ferrari

Concluding, yes, Ferrari overall have been better.

I'd say Canada is also a tie. There was nothing in it in qualifying and the race was difficult to tell given it was a procession

mds wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Flash2k11 wrote:

Yeah, not wrong.

Kimi disappointingly slow again, Vettel in a class of his own out front. Mercedes wanna be hoping this delayed upgrade is a serious boost, Ferrari look like they've stolen a march in Vettel's hands.

I guess you must be sleeping on the season thus far, the Vettel/Ferrari combo are the fastest masked by bad luck otherwise Vettel would be well clear by now, Vettel for me is the clear favourite for the title.

It's fluctuated race by race

As an overview, do we say the Red Bull is the fastest car because it was the quickest at Monaco, the Ferrari has been the quickest more often.

Race pace:
Australia: Mercedes
Bahrain: Tie (given how close it was at the end, given how Hamilton at his best is faster than Bottas)
China: inclined to say Tie, given Bottas kept close first stint, then undercut, then Vettel kept close second stint?
Azerbaijan: Ferrari
Spain: Mercedes
Monaco: Ferrari
Canada: Ferrari

Qualifying: speaks for itself, Ferrari

Concluding, yes, Ferrari overall have been better.

mds wrote:

Zoue wrote:

mds wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:It's fluctuated race by race

As an overview, do we say the Red Bull is the fastest car because it was the quickest at Monaco, the Ferrari has been the quickest more often.

Race pace:
Australia: Mercedes
Bahrain: Tie (given how close it was at the end, given how Hamilton at his best is faster than Bottas)
China: inclined to say Tie, given Bottas kept close first stint, then undercut, then Vettel kept close second stint?
Azerbaijan: Ferrari
Spain: Mercedes
Monaco: Ferrari
Canada: Ferrari

Qualifying: speaks for itself, Ferrari

Concluding, yes, Ferrari overall have been better.

I'd say Canada is also a tie. There was nothing in it in qualifying and the race was difficult to tell given it was a procession

I think Vettel demonstrated just enough that he had pace in hand - first stint even after flatspotting he built the advantage back to where he wanted it with a few fastest laps, then second stint he seemed to be in control as well. I think he had more in hand.

Question is whether Hamilton on form would have been able to live with Vettel. But from what was seen one has to assume Ferrari had the faster race pace (well, one of them).

Zoue wrote:

mds wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote: I guess you must be sleeping on the season thus far, the Vettel/Ferrari combo are the fastest masked by bad luck otherwise Vettel would be well clear by now, Vettel for me is the clear favourite for the title.

It's fluctuated race by race

As an overview, do we say the Red Bull is the fastest car because it was the quickest at Monaco, the Ferrari has been the quickest more often.

Race pace:
Australia: Mercedes
Bahrain: Tie (given how close it was at the end, given how Hamilton at his best is faster than Bottas)
China: inclined to say Tie, given Bottas kept close first stint, then undercut, then Vettel kept close second stint?
Azerbaijan: Ferrari
Spain: Mercedes
Monaco: Ferrari
Canada: Ferrari

Qualifying: speaks for itself, Ferrari

Concluding, yes, Ferrari overall have been better.

I'd say Canada is also a tie. There was nothing in it in qualifying and the race was difficult to tell given it was a procession

Zoue wrote:

mds wrote:

Zoue wrote:

mds wrote:

pokerman wrote: As an overview, do we say the Red Bull is the fastest car because it was the quickest at Monaco, the Ferrari has been the quickest more often.

Race pace:
Australia: Mercedes
Bahrain: Tie (given how close it was at the end, given how Hamilton at his best is faster than Bottas)
China: inclined to say Tie, given Bottas kept close first stint, then undercut, then Vettel kept close second stint?
Azerbaijan: Ferrari
Spain: Mercedes
Monaco: Ferrari
Canada: Ferrari

Qualifying: speaks for itself, Ferrari

Concluding, yes, Ferrari overall have been better.

I'd say Canada is also a tie. There was nothing in it in qualifying and the race was difficult to tell given it was a procession

I think Vettel demonstrated just enough that he had pace in hand - first stint even after flatspotting he built the advantage back to where he wanted it with a few fastest laps, then second stint he seemed to be in control as well. I think he had more in hand.

Question is whether Hamilton on form would have been able to live with Vettel. But from what was seen one has to assume Ferrari had the faster race pace (well, one of them).

But that's his trademark though, really, isn't it? Build up a gap within a short space of time and then maintain it?

I agree it's possible that the Ferrari was faster. But especially the qualifying gap was tiny enough that driver ability could have made the difference. And in the race it was very difficult to follow anyway.

Zoue wrote: The engine issue was resolved in the pit stops . They gave him more cooling and afterwards confirmed that they had fixed the issue.

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:Kimi is so lacklustre it's painful. Fastest car by a margin and much fresher tyres and still doesn't get close to an out of form Hamilton.

To be fair Hamilton had an engine issue, I'm not sure with Kimi if it's a case of he knows you can't pass so why bother but still it doesn't look good being dropped by slower cars.

For me the way that Leclerc is demolishing Ericsson I think Ferrari should take a punt on him but Ferrari will probably be cautious and give Kimi one more year plus apparently that's what Vettel wants as well.

The engine issue was resolved in the pit stops . They gave him more cooling and afterwards confirmed that they had fixed the issue.

Kimi also had an older spec Ferrari PU, don't forget - he didn't get the upgrades Vettel did and I don't think it's true to say he had the fastest car by a margin - but yes I was disappointed in him. At one point it looked like he would have been in a position to take the place off Hamilton, but Ferrari kept him out too long and the opportunity was lost. I don't think overtaking on track was ever on the cards. None of the front runners could do it

The ruined first stint, lack of pace and having to stop early very much did for Hamilton's race and also gave the impression to some of him driving badly, it cost him at least 4th place.

As for Kimi I had forgotten about Kimi's engine but still unlike the Mercedes engines it was more within it's quota of usage.

Yes I don't think there was anything wrong with Kimi's engine. My point was we don't really know what the deficit to Vettel's was and the statement that he was in the fastest car by a margin isn't really backed up by anything.

The race was largely decided on Saturday. Red Bull's decision to do something different and start on the HS tyres paid off when Ricciardo managed to mug Kimi at the start.