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Paolo_Lasardi
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:22 pm 
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This race was even more boring than Monaco!
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simonr23
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:23 am 
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This race really highlighted the fact that it’s a 2 tier (at least) championship. Kimi in 6th, was on the tail of the Renault in 7th. With a safety car and without any strangeness!
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UnlikeUday
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:44 am 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
This race was even more boring than Monaco!


It's rare for a Canadian Grand Prix to be so boring. The difference between the top 3 teams & the rest of the field is frightening & ironic!

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ReservoirDog
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:50 am 
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Seanie wrote:
Christ. 3 DRS zones and i can barely remember there being any overtakes.

Lewis' girlfriend ballsing up the chequered flag was the highlight of an otherwise dull race.

It apparently wasn't her fault, but why was she even up there? What is Liberty's obsession with celebrity? If the race hadn't of been so dull they could have severely ruined the outcome by having to classify 2 laps previous.


Liberty is terrible, but we had non-F1 related celebrities waving flags before Liberty too.
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UnlikeUday
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:03 am 
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Good she ended the race early. It was already getting boring.


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mikeyg123
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:35 am 
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blhsing wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
blhsing wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
As some people seem to be thinking, is Bottas having a great season, or is Hamilton not doing so well? The fact now is, if Bottas hadn't retired in Baku, he would be just 2 points behind Hamilton. Bottas 111, Hamilton 113. So If Bottas beat Hamilton next race by finishing 1st 2nd or even 3rd with Hamilton behind (which wouldn't be impossible) He would be ahead in the championship. And that would basically be in the middle of the season. And I don't know if their luck has been that different really if you ignore Baku. Hamilton did have a grid penalty but had a little luck with the retirements ahead. Bottas missed a well deserved win in China. Basically like Hamilton in Australia.

They have both had good and bad luck, but Bottas at this stage clearly a fair bit worse off.

But the fact is, if everyone is saying Hamilton is a top driver and gets the most from his car, is that true at the moment? Or is Bottas more than good enough to deserve this seat? I personally think Hamilton has been ok by his standards. Has been great in several, but poor in others. Bottas had a very bad weeknd start, but to me has not looked much worse than hamilton ever since then at all.

I think Bottas is looking better than he did at the start of last year by quite a bit actually. Hopefully he will keep it up.
If you want to talk about all the what-if's you surely have forgotten the sure-fire win Hamilton would've gotten in the first race if Mercedes did not throw it away during the safety car.


I don't think Hamilton has been at his best this season. Just seems uninspired.
I definitely would not use "uninspiring" to describe Hamilton's first race of the season, where he absolutely dominated, qualifying 0.7s ahead of Raikkonen and Vettel, while Bottas crashed out, and in the race Hamilton was again in a class of his own and was comfortably ahead of Raikkkonen and Vettel until the VSC, when Vettel's delayed pitstop saved him at least 15 seconds and gave him the lead and the win.


But the lack of fight after that happened was.
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Toby.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:35 am 
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I'm not sure that can be put down entirely to Hamilton's lack of inspiration. Albert Park is every year a crap racetrack for close racing, and I'm pretty sure the whole event passed without much on-track action. Hell Verstappen spun and then couldn't do a thing despite looking pretty quick before that.

In fact, other than the Red Bulls on softer tyres in China, much of 2018 has been pretty stinkin' boring when it comes to on-track action.

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mikeyg123
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:59 am 
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Toby. wrote:
I'm not sure that can be put down entirely to Hamilton's lack of inspiration. Albert Park is every year a crap racetrack for close racing, and I'm pretty sure the whole event passed without much on-track action. Hell Verstappen spun and then couldn't do a thing despite looking pretty quick before that.

In fact, other than the Red Bulls on softer tyres in China, much of 2018 has been pretty stinkin' boring when it comes to on-track action.


Apart from Baku that's certainly true. I don't mind a lack of overtaking but I do mind a lack of battles and chances. I've never seen the issue with turbulent air so bad. It's not that the cars can't overtake they can't even stay within 1.2 seconds of each other.

The other issue that creates is it causes teams to go ultra conservative on strategy meaning we don't have much excitement there either. That then manifests itself as drivers driving slowly spending the whole race saving tyres so they can 1 stop. It's a triple whammy.

It's been pretty clear this season that if a race is left to run its course it will be pretty dull.
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Sutton
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:31 am 
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Monaco - I moan about it every year, but a poor race is expected.
But Canada?
But that last night was far worse than Monaco. Apart from the crash at the start NOTHING happened.
Cars quite happy to sit 5 seconds behind the guy in front (top 6) for 70 laps (or 68. She done us a favour.)
When I say they are quite happy to sit 5 seconds or so behind. But thats as good as they get.
Each and everytime you see a car closing up you know the overtake is not happening.

And the gap between the top 3 cars and the rest is an absolute embarrassment.
Red Bull, Ferrari and Mercedes are in a different series from the rest.

This needs fixed now. Not 2021.
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yodasarmpit
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:59 am 
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That was a really odd race, dull as dish water. It almost felt as if everyone simply settled down into position and didnt even try to catch up to anyone else, let alone try to overtake.
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jimmyj
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:22 am 
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yodasarmpit wrote:
That was a really odd race, dull as dish water. It almost felt as if everyone simply settled down into position and didnt even try to catch up to anyone else, let alone try to overtake.


Yes, I was quite disappointed. I thought it was going to be a scrappy anyone could win race. Alas not.
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pokerman
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:30 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Kimi is so lacklustre it's painful. Fastest car by a margin and much fresher tyres and still doesn't get close to an out of form Hamilton.

To be fair Hamilton had an engine issue, I'm not sure with Kimi if it's a case of he knows you can't pass so why bother but still it doesn't look good being dropped by slower cars.

For me the way that Leclerc is demolishing Ericsson I think Ferrari should take a punt on him but Ferrari will probably be cautious and give Kimi one more year plus apparently that's what Vettel wants as well.

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pokerman
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:32 am 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
At least Horner says it how it is, 2 stops is the way to go. 1 stop races are rubbish.

Horner wants 2 stops because it means using softer tyres and which car is better on the softer tyres, looks after them better?

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pokerman
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:34 am 
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Flash2k11 wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
At least Horner says it how it is, 2 stops is the way to go. 1 stop races are rubbish.



Yeah, not wrong.

Kimi disappointingly slow again, Vettel in a class of his own out front. Mercedes wanna be hoping this delayed upgrade is a serious boost, Ferrari look like they've stolen a march in Vettel's hands.

I guess you must be sleeping on the season thus far, the Vettel/Ferrari combo are the fastest masked by bad luck otherwise Vettel would be well clear by now, Vettel for me is the clear favourite for the title.

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pokerman
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:38 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
Bacus wrote:
I'm sorry but F1 is s!!t these days. I think you have to be 1.5 seconds faster to actually have a chance to overtake.
I'm watching F1 for some 25 years, it seems it's worse than ever.
I've always wondered why supposedly some very bright people who run this sport are able to come up with such defectuos regulations


To appease the manufacturer teams that's why.

Red Bull with the assistance from McLaren wrote the rules for these cars that can't overtake.

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pokerman
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:40 am 
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F1Tyrant wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
To appease the manufacturer teams that's why.

To be fair, Mercedes are the ones pushing the aero cull next season.

Plus they didn't want these cars in the first place because they knew about the lack of racing.

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pokerman
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:42 am 
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frankwer wrote:
Do DRS work when they reach the engine rev limit so fast?

The engines don't rev out as far as I'm aware, maybe you are thinking of the V8's?

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pokerman
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:46 am 
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blhsing wrote:
Oasis wrote:
Bernie's sprinkler system doesnt seem like such a bad idea anymore
+1

We need more wet races, where driver skills and mechanical grips are more important than aerodynamics and tyre conservation. If wet races have to be artificially produced, so be it.

I think some people need to keep their knickers on, the cars are being changed next year for better racing.

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pokerman
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:49 am 
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gregs51 wrote:
Mercedes now in real danger of becoming third best car. Unless they find something soon Red Bull will have the upper hand at the more aero tracks. The Ferrari is untouchable now in Vettels hands. There always seems to be something wrong with the Merc setup - tyres, cooling, straight line speed, oversteer, understeer. There is something inherently divaish in the chassis that has been masked by engine superiority.

The car was fine before the regs were changed in order to try and stop the Mercedes domination and guess what it appears to have worked.

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pokerman
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:56 am 
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sidders wrote:
I know Merc were running the old engine but just have the feeling that something is not right with Hamilton. Bar a couple of races he has been pretty average and not signed new contract yet. Perhaps he isn't as motivated this year and his time maybe nigh. Would explain some performances

Hamilton qualified badly, there was nothing wrong with him in the race bar a trouble some engine.

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Blinky McSquinty
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:57 am 
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The race began, things were very interesting between Bottas and Verstappen at the beginning, there was a crash and then a safety car. And then..... nothing, absolutely nothing happened and was worth watching.

Neither Mercedes driver had the new and upgraded engine. One finished second, the other did not.

It was just like Monaco, the drivers driving well off the pace just because they had to protect and preserve their tires. The tire rules was supposed to create drama and excitement. Yet it is two races in a row where protecting the tires was the dominant theme.

There have been some cracking good races where these tires created a great race, yet those same tires have also created boring processions. The FIA and Pirelli need to stop introducing new compounds in an attempt to spice up the action and delve into the root cause of "why don't the tires consistently make for exciting action"? No doubt Liberty are not happy because this race had tremendous potential to be a classic, yet failed miserably.

The weather was 10/10, the starting grid was mixed up enough to offer tremendous action, the grandstands were full, yet .... the end result was one where it was safe to turn off the TV after five laps because not much happened after.

Oh well, I have LeMans to look forward to.

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pokerman
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:59 am 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
That model had no idea what she was doing and the thing was worse that she just kept waving and waving like there is no tomorrow, even when the track was empty before her.

It wasn't her fault.

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Last edited by pokerman on Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Zoue
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:02 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Kimi is so lacklustre it's painful. Fastest car by a margin and much fresher tyres and still doesn't get close to an out of form Hamilton.

To be fair Hamilton had an engine issue, I'm not sure with Kimi if it's a case of he knows you can't pass so why bother but still it doesn't look good being dropped by slower cars.

For me the way that Leclerc is demolishing Ericsson I think Ferrari should take a punt on him but Ferrari will probably be cautious and give Kimi one more year plus apparently that's what Vettel wants as well.

The engine issue was resolved in the pit stops . They gave him more cooling and afterwards confirmed that they had fixed the issue.

Kimi also had an older spec Ferrari PU, don't forget - he didn't get the upgrades Vettel did and I don't think it's true to say he had the fastest car by a margin - but yes I was disappointed in him. At one point it looked like he would have been in a position to take the place off Hamilton, but Ferrari kept him out too long and the opportunity was lost. I don't think overtaking on track was ever on the cards. None of the front runners could do it
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Zoue
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:03 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
F1Tyrant wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
To appease the manufacturer teams that's why.

To be fair, Mercedes are the ones pushing the aero cull next season.

Plus they didn't want these cars in the first place because they knew about the lack of racing.

I'm sure wanting to keep the status quo never crossed their minds!
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pokerman
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:04 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
blhsing wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
blhsing wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
As some people seem to be thinking, is Bottas having a great season, or is Hamilton not doing so well? The fact now is, if Bottas hadn't retired in Baku, he would be just 2 points behind Hamilton. Bottas 111, Hamilton 113. So If Bottas beat Hamilton next race by finishing 1st 2nd or even 3rd with Hamilton behind (which wouldn't be impossible) He would be ahead in the championship. And that would basically be in the middle of the season. And I don't know if their luck has been that different really if you ignore Baku. Hamilton did have a grid penalty but had a little luck with the retirements ahead. Bottas missed a well deserved win in China. Basically like Hamilton in Australia.

They have both had good and bad luck, but Bottas at this stage clearly a fair bit worse off.

But the fact is, if everyone is saying Hamilton is a top driver and gets the most from his car, is that true at the moment? Or is Bottas more than good enough to deserve this seat? I personally think Hamilton has been ok by his standards. Has been great in several, but poor in others. Bottas had a very bad weeknd start, but to me has not looked much worse than hamilton ever since then at all.

I think Bottas is looking better than he did at the start of last year by quite a bit actually. Hopefully he will keep it up.
If you want to talk about all the what-if's you surely have forgotten the sure-fire win Hamilton would've gotten in the first race if Mercedes did not throw it away during the safety car.


I don't think Hamilton has been at his best this season. Just seems uninspired.
I definitely would not use "uninspiring" to describe Hamilton's first race of the season, where he absolutely dominated, qualifying 0.7s ahead of Raikkonen and Vettel, while Bottas crashed out, and in the race Hamilton was again in a class of his own and was comfortably ahead of Raikkkonen and Vettel until the VSC, when Vettel's delayed pitstop saved him at least 15 seconds and gave him the lead and the win.


But the lack of fight after that happened was.

The lack of fight on a track were you can't overtake plus the Ferrari was quicker on the straight, lack of fight were Hamilton understeered off the track because he got to close to Vettel's car?

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Zoue
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:04 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
At least Horner says it how it is, 2 stops is the way to go. 1 stop races are rubbish.



Yeah, not wrong.

Kimi disappointingly slow again, Vettel in a class of his own out front. Mercedes wanna be hoping this delayed upgrade is a serious boost, Ferrari look like they've stolen a march in Vettel's hands.

I guess you must be sleeping on the season thus far, the Vettel/Ferrari combo are the fastest masked by bad luck otherwise Vettel would be well clear by now, Vettel for me is the clear favourite for the title.

It's fluctuated race by race
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pokerman
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:12 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Kimi is so lacklustre it's painful. Fastest car by a margin and much fresher tyres and still doesn't get close to an out of form Hamilton.

To be fair Hamilton had an engine issue, I'm not sure with Kimi if it's a case of he knows you can't pass so why bother but still it doesn't look good being dropped by slower cars.

For me the way that Leclerc is demolishing Ericsson I think Ferrari should take a punt on him but Ferrari will probably be cautious and give Kimi one more year plus apparently that's what Vettel wants as well.

The engine issue was resolved in the pit stops . They gave him more cooling and afterwards confirmed that they had fixed the issue.

Kimi also had an older spec Ferrari PU, don't forget - he didn't get the upgrades Vettel did and I don't think it's true to say he had the fastest car by a margin - but yes I was disappointed in him. At one point it looked like he would have been in a position to take the place off Hamilton, but Ferrari kept him out too long and the opportunity was lost. I don't think overtaking on track was ever on the cards. None of the front runners could do it

The ruined first stint, lack of pace and having to stop early very much did for Hamilton's race and also gave the impression to some of him driving badly, it cost him at least 4th place.

As for Kimi I had forgotten about Kimi's engine but still unlike the Mercedes engines it was more within it's quota of usage.

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pokerman
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:14 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1Tyrant wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
To appease the manufacturer teams that's why.

To be fair, Mercedes are the ones pushing the aero cull next season.

Plus they didn't want these cars in the first place because they knew about the lack of racing.

I'm sure wanting to keep the status quo never crossed their minds!

It crossed your mind but there are plenty of people that know the basics of more aero, less overtaking.

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pokerman
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:16 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
At least Horner says it how it is, 2 stops is the way to go. 1 stop races are rubbish.



Yeah, not wrong.

Kimi disappointingly slow again, Vettel in a class of his own out front. Mercedes wanna be hoping this delayed upgrade is a serious boost, Ferrari look like they've stolen a march in Vettel's hands.

I guess you must be sleeping on the season thus far, the Vettel/Ferrari combo are the fastest masked by bad luck otherwise Vettel would be well clear by now, Vettel for me is the clear favourite for the title.

It's fluctuated race by race

As an overview, do we say the Red Bull is the fastest car because it was the quickest at Monaco, the Ferrari has been the quickest more often.

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Seanie
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:23 pm 
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The tyres are too strong, like back when bridgestone were producing a tyre that could go a whole race.

Sending the softest tyres should not result in one stop races.

Brundle said on SKY's coverage, what we need is marginal 1-2 or 2-3 stop races. Don't make the races an easy one stop, make it so we have some competition.

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mds
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:23 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
At least Horner says it how it is, 2 stops is the way to go. 1 stop races are rubbish.



Yeah, not wrong.

Kimi disappointingly slow again, Vettel in a class of his own out front. Mercedes wanna be hoping this delayed upgrade is a serious boost, Ferrari look like they've stolen a march in Vettel's hands.

I guess you must be sleeping on the season thus far, the Vettel/Ferrari combo are the fastest masked by bad luck otherwise Vettel would be well clear by now, Vettel for me is the clear favourite for the title.

It's fluctuated race by race

As an overview, do we say the Red Bull is the fastest car because it was the quickest at Monaco, the Ferrari has been the quickest more often.


Race pace:
Australia: Mercedes
Bahrain: Tie (given how close it was at the end, given how Hamilton at his best is faster than Bottas)
China: inclined to say Tie, given Bottas kept close first stint, then undercut, then Vettel kept close second stint?
Azerbaijan: Ferrari
Spain: Mercedes
Monaco: Ferrari
Canada: Ferrari

Qualifying: speaks for itself, Ferrari

Concluding, yes, Ferrari overall have been better.

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Zoue
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:27 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Kimi is so lacklustre it's painful. Fastest car by a margin and much fresher tyres and still doesn't get close to an out of form Hamilton.

To be fair Hamilton had an engine issue, I'm not sure with Kimi if it's a case of he knows you can't pass so why bother but still it doesn't look good being dropped by slower cars.

For me the way that Leclerc is demolishing Ericsson I think Ferrari should take a punt on him but Ferrari will probably be cautious and give Kimi one more year plus apparently that's what Vettel wants as well.

The engine issue was resolved in the pit stops . They gave him more cooling and afterwards confirmed that they had fixed the issue.

Kimi also had an older spec Ferrari PU, don't forget - he didn't get the upgrades Vettel did and I don't think it's true to say he had the fastest car by a margin - but yes I was disappointed in him. At one point it looked like he would have been in a position to take the place off Hamilton, but Ferrari kept him out too long and the opportunity was lost. I don't think overtaking on track was ever on the cards. None of the front runners could do it

The ruined first stint, lack of pace and having to stop early very much did for Hamilton's race and also gave the impression to some of him driving badly, it cost him at least 4th place.

As for Kimi I had forgotten about Kimi's engine but still unlike the Mercedes engines it was more within it's quota of usage.

Yes I don't think there was anything wrong with Kimi's engine. My point was we don't really know what the deficit to Vettel's was and the statement that he was in the fastest car by a margin isn't really backed up by anything.

The race was largely decided on Saturday. Red Bull's decision to do something different and start on the HS tyres paid off when Ricciardo managed to mug Kimi at the start.
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Zoue
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:31 pm 
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Posts: 25158
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:

Yeah, not wrong.

Kimi disappointingly slow again, Vettel in a class of his own out front. Mercedes wanna be hoping this delayed upgrade is a serious boost, Ferrari look like they've stolen a march in Vettel's hands.

I guess you must be sleeping on the season thus far, the Vettel/Ferrari combo are the fastest masked by bad luck otherwise Vettel would be well clear by now, Vettel for me is the clear favourite for the title.

It's fluctuated race by race

As an overview, do we say the Red Bull is the fastest car because it was the quickest at Monaco, the Ferrari has been the quickest more often.


Race pace:
Australia: Mercedes
Bahrain: Tie (given how close it was at the end, given how Hamilton at his best is faster than Bottas)
China: inclined to say Tie, given Bottas kept close first stint, then undercut, then Vettel kept close second stint?
Azerbaijan: Ferrari
Spain: Mercedes
Monaco: Ferrari
Canada: Ferrari

Qualifying: speaks for itself, Ferrari

Concluding, yes, Ferrari overall have been better.

I'd say Canada is also a tie. There was nothing in it in qualifying and the race was difficult to tell given it was a procession
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mds
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:39 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I guess you must be sleeping on the season thus far, the Vettel/Ferrari combo are the fastest masked by bad luck otherwise Vettel would be well clear by now, Vettel for me is the clear favourite for the title.

It's fluctuated race by race

As an overview, do we say the Red Bull is the fastest car because it was the quickest at Monaco, the Ferrari has been the quickest more often.


Race pace:
Australia: Mercedes
Bahrain: Tie (given how close it was at the end, given how Hamilton at his best is faster than Bottas)
China: inclined to say Tie, given Bottas kept close first stint, then undercut, then Vettel kept close second stint?
Azerbaijan: Ferrari
Spain: Mercedes
Monaco: Ferrari
Canada: Ferrari

Qualifying: speaks for itself, Ferrari

Concluding, yes, Ferrari overall have been better.

I'd say Canada is also a tie. There was nothing in it in qualifying and the race was difficult to tell given it was a procession


I think Vettel demonstrated just enough that he had pace in hand - first stint even after flatspotting he built the advantage back to where he wanted it with a few fastest laps, then second stint he seemed to be in control as well. I think he had more in hand.

Question is whether Hamilton on form would have been able to live with Vettel. But from what was seen one has to assume Ferrari had the faster race pace (well, one of them).

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F1_Ernie
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:42 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:52 pm
Posts: 3509
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:


Yeah, not wrong.

Kimi disappointingly slow again, Vettel in a class of his own out front. Mercedes wanna be hoping this delayed upgrade is a serious boost, Ferrari look like they've stolen a march in Vettel's hands.

I guess you must be sleeping on the season thus far, the Vettel/Ferrari combo are the fastest masked by bad luck otherwise Vettel would be well clear by now, Vettel for me is the clear favourite for the title.

It's fluctuated race by race

As an overview, do we say the Red Bull is the fastest car because it was the quickest at Monaco, the Ferrari has been the quickest more often.


Race pace:
Australia: Mercedes
Bahrain: Tie (given how close it was at the end, given how Hamilton at his best is faster than Bottas)
China: inclined to say Tie, given Bottas kept close first stint, then undercut, then Vettel kept close second stint?
Azerbaijan: Ferrari
Spain: Mercedes
Monaco: Ferrari
Canada: Ferrari

Qualifying: speaks for itself, Ferrari

Concluding, yes, Ferrari overall have been better.


I would have Ferrari on 4, Vettel had Bottas in check in China until a big offset in tyres no one expected and Vettel mistake cost him the lead plus a second in the pitbox, then Vettel managed numerous laps in the DRS zone which Bottas couldn't manage.
Mercedes on 2 but have dominated 2 races in which Ferrari haven't really got close to doing and Bahrain a tie.

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2016: 24th place
2017: 4th place
2018: 12th place

Wins: Spain 2016, Canada 2017, Malaysia 2017
Podiums: 2nd Germany 2016, 3rd Mexico 2016, 3rd China 2018, 3rd Japan 2018, 2nd Mexico 2018


Last edited by F1_Ernie on Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Zoue
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 25158
mds wrote:
Zoue wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
It's fluctuated race by race

As an overview, do we say the Red Bull is the fastest car because it was the quickest at Monaco, the Ferrari has been the quickest more often.


Race pace:
Australia: Mercedes
Bahrain: Tie (given how close it was at the end, given how Hamilton at his best is faster than Bottas)
China: inclined to say Tie, given Bottas kept close first stint, then undercut, then Vettel kept close second stint?
Azerbaijan: Ferrari
Spain: Mercedes
Monaco: Ferrari
Canada: Ferrari

Qualifying: speaks for itself, Ferrari

Concluding, yes, Ferrari overall have been better.

I'd say Canada is also a tie. There was nothing in it in qualifying and the race was difficult to tell given it was a procession


I think Vettel demonstrated just enough that he had pace in hand - first stint even after flatspotting he built the advantage back to where he wanted it with a few fastest laps, then second stint he seemed to be in control as well. I think he had more in hand.

Question is whether Hamilton on form would have been able to live with Vettel. But from what was seen one has to assume Ferrari had the faster race pace (well, one of them).

But that's his trademark though, really, isn't it? Build up a gap within a short space of time and then maintain it?

I agree it's possible that the Ferrari was faster. But especially the qualifying gap was tiny enough that driver ability could have made the difference. And in the race it was very difficult to follow anyway.
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F1_Ernie
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:44 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:52 pm
Posts: 3509
Zoue wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I guess you must be sleeping on the season thus far, the Vettel/Ferrari combo are the fastest masked by bad luck otherwise Vettel would be well clear by now, Vettel for me is the clear favourite for the title.

It's fluctuated race by race

As an overview, do we say the Red Bull is the fastest car because it was the quickest at Monaco, the Ferrari has been the quickest more often.


Race pace:
Australia: Mercedes
Bahrain: Tie (given how close it was at the end, given how Hamilton at his best is faster than Bottas)
China: inclined to say Tie, given Bottas kept close first stint, then undercut, then Vettel kept close second stint?
Azerbaijan: Ferrari
Spain: Mercedes
Monaco: Ferrari
Canada: Ferrari

Qualifying: speaks for itself, Ferrari

Concluding, yes, Ferrari overall have been better.

I'd say Canada is also a tie. There was nothing in it in qualifying and the race was difficult to tell given it was a procession


Every race is a procession unless the safety car comes out.

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2016: 24th place
2017: 4th place
2018: 12th place

Wins: Spain 2016, Canada 2017, Malaysia 2017
Podiums: 2nd Germany 2016, 3rd Mexico 2016, 3rd China 2018, 3rd Japan 2018, 2nd Mexico 2018
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mds
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:07 am
Posts: 11443
Zoue wrote:
mds wrote:
Zoue wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
As an overview, do we say the Red Bull is the fastest car because it was the quickest at Monaco, the Ferrari has been the quickest more often.


Race pace:
Australia: Mercedes
Bahrain: Tie (given how close it was at the end, given how Hamilton at his best is faster than Bottas)
China: inclined to say Tie, given Bottas kept close first stint, then undercut, then Vettel kept close second stint?
Azerbaijan: Ferrari
Spain: Mercedes
Monaco: Ferrari
Canada: Ferrari

Qualifying: speaks for itself, Ferrari

Concluding, yes, Ferrari overall have been better.

I'd say Canada is also a tie. There was nothing in it in qualifying and the race was difficult to tell given it was a procession


I think Vettel demonstrated just enough that he had pace in hand - first stint even after flatspotting he built the advantage back to where he wanted it with a few fastest laps, then second stint he seemed to be in control as well. I think he had more in hand.

Question is whether Hamilton on form would have been able to live with Vettel. But from what was seen one has to assume Ferrari had the faster race pace (well, one of them).

But that's his trademark though, really, isn't it? Build up a gap within a short space of time and then maintain it?

I agree it's possible that the Ferrari was faster. But especially the qualifying gap was tiny enough that driver ability could have made the difference. And in the race it was very difficult to follow anyway.


Of course, but you need pace in the car to allow for that :)
If he had squeezed every ounce out of it and then just drove to what it was capable of to maintain the gap he wouldn't have been able to build the gap again after flatspotting, so still think in race pace Mercedes had nothing on Vettel who could have done even more.

Agree on qualifying, and possible different outcome of the race - but then I think Vettel would've been menacing the entire race and I'd have probably called it a tie.

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Lojik
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:22 pm 
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Location: London
Zoue wrote:
The engine issue was resolved in the pit stops . They gave him more cooling and afterwards confirmed that they had fixed the issue.


Hamilton says:
"Straight from the start, we got out of Turn 2, the power started dropping out,"

"There were lots of hesitations, engine dropping in power, so I thought the engine was going to blow.

"We don't have a problem with cooling, we just had something fail that sent temperatures up.

"It was an unforeseen issue and that was losing us power. We were operating far below our power target.

"I was conflicted at the end because I wanted to push to get that next position but if the engine goes in the last couple of laps... the second to last lap I had some big dips in power.

And Wolff says:

"Then it didn't come together as expected. It was a mechanical failure, so the car ran hot from the first lap."

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13667 ... ng-to-blow

It sounds like they got the cooling issue under control at the pit stop, but Hamilton was still having power issues. End of life PU I suppose.
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pokerman
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:33 pm 
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Posts: 34138
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Kimi is so lacklustre it's painful. Fastest car by a margin and much fresher tyres and still doesn't get close to an out of form Hamilton.

To be fair Hamilton had an engine issue, I'm not sure with Kimi if it's a case of he knows you can't pass so why bother but still it doesn't look good being dropped by slower cars.

For me the way that Leclerc is demolishing Ericsson I think Ferrari should take a punt on him but Ferrari will probably be cautious and give Kimi one more year plus apparently that's what Vettel wants as well.

The engine issue was resolved in the pit stops . They gave him more cooling and afterwards confirmed that they had fixed the issue.

Kimi also had an older spec Ferrari PU, don't forget - he didn't get the upgrades Vettel did and I don't think it's true to say he had the fastest car by a margin - but yes I was disappointed in him. At one point it looked like he would have been in a position to take the place off Hamilton, but Ferrari kept him out too long and the opportunity was lost. I don't think overtaking on track was ever on the cards. None of the front runners could do it

The ruined first stint, lack of pace and having to stop early very much did for Hamilton's race and also gave the impression to some of him driving badly, it cost him at least 4th place.

As for Kimi I had forgotten about Kimi's engine but still unlike the Mercedes engines it was more within it's quota of usage.

Yes I don't think there was anything wrong with Kimi's engine. My point was we don't really know what the deficit to Vettel's was and the statement that he was in the fastest car by a margin isn't really backed up by anything.

The race was largely decided on Saturday. Red Bull's decision to do something different and start on the HS tyres paid off when Ricciardo managed to mug Kimi at the start.

To be more specific I would say the Vettel/Ferrari combo has been the quickest thus giving some credit to Vettel.

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place
2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)
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