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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:59 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:

.

Not 30bhp though, but 13bhp.


I thought I could recall them 'testing' a Log style manifold instead of the bananas and suddenly finding a few horses.
I thought it was done in testing in spain but can not seem to find anything on it.
Not sure how relevant it would be because there is usually more low down torque with longer pipe runs so it may have just been a gain-here-lose-here thing. just annoyed I can find nothing on it. Will hunt when I get back to my desktop


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:32 pm 
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Mercedes looking good on the long runs.

    Canadian GP long-run average lap times
    Driver Team Lap Time Tyres
    Lewis Hamilton Mercedes . 1:16.4 Ultrasofts
    Valtteri Bottas Mercedes 1:16.5 Ultrasofts
    Max Verstappen . Red Bull . 1:16.6 Hypersofts
    Kimi Raikkonen . Ferrari 1:16.7 Ultrasofts

Sorry about the crappy formatting, but this forum software is not the most, er, flexible


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:39 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
Mercedes looking good on the long runs.

    Canadian GP long-run average lap times
    Driver Team Lap Time Tyres
    Lewis Hamilton Mercedes . 1:16.4 Ultrasofts
    Valtteri Bottas Mercedes 1:16.5 Ultrasofts
    Max Verstappen . Red Bull . 1:16.6 Hypersofts
    Kimi Raikkonen . Ferrari 1:16.7 Ultrasofts

Sorry about the crappy formatting, but this forum software is not the most, er, flexible

If Hamilton can win this race on a 7-race-old engine that would be a massive blow dealt to Sebastian in the championship. Hamilton is still on his first components across the board and a win here would really put him in good shape with reliability and timing. 7 races is exactly a third of the season so it would make Hamilton the only driver to be perfectly on-schedule to avoid penalties.

I'm not very convinced though. The long run estimates from practice have not been reliable at all this year and Ferrari in particular have sandbagged a lot this year. We'll see come Saturday.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:08 pm 
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Hamilton has owned this track since 2007 and Mercedes looked comfortably fastest today. I’d be amazed if he doesn’t win.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:09 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
Hamilton has owned this track since 2007 and Mercedes looked comfortably fastest today. I’d be amazed if he doesn’t win.


I’m guessing you haven’t watched many Friday FP sessions this year


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:25 pm 
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I hate driver coaching, telling Stroll how to drive the track.

I don't really mind it. If they aren't told when they're on track they get the info inbetween runs anyway.

You can put Stroll in a Mercedes, tell him to brake, turn in and get on the power at the same points Hamilton does, he still won't beat him. Knowing how to do something and actually being able to do it are two very different things.

I think it should be allowed in FP1/2/3 but not qualifying or the race. Free practice is there for them to learn and develop, so they should be allowed to do that before racing on their own


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:26 pm 
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This is going to be a cracker of a race !! I can't wait.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:25 am 
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pokerman wrote:
I don't think that you can blame the drivers.


Vandoorne does absolutely nothing. Alonso, while he is driving the heck out of the car, is also a very expensive malcontent. At this point in his career, he should be in a top car and Mclaren doesn't have one and recently admitted they won't have one for a while. So Alonso at mclaren just doesn't make any sense anymore. Not for him, not for Mclaren. So imo, yes they should let both of them go.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:35 am 
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Grosjean & Haas' nightmare. Grosjean hit a Marmot during practice yesterday. Haas have only 1 more New wing now.

Image
Source - www.imgur.com

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:47 am 
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Taken from Formula 1's official website:

Long-run pace deficit (seconds per lap)
1. Mercedes
2. Red Bull +0.6 s/lap
3. Ferrari +1 s/lap
4. Force India +1.4 s/lap
5. McLaren +1.5 s/lap
6. Renault +1.6 s/lap
7. Toro Rosso +1.7 s/lap
8. Haas +1.7 s/lap
9. Sauber +1.8 s/lap
10. Williams +2.3 s/lap

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:05 am 
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Gosh, did he aim for the critter! Was sad and sweet hearing the commentary guys realise what the ‘slick surface’ was for.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:24 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Taken from Formula 1's official website:

Long-run pace deficit (seconds per lap)
1. Mercedes
2. Red Bull +0.6 s/lap
3. Ferrari +1 s/lap
4. Force India +1.4 s/lap
5. McLaren +1.5 s/lap
6. Renault +1.6 s/lap
7. Toro Rosso +1.7 s/lap
8. Haas +1.7 s/lap
9. Sauber +1.8 s/lap
10. Williams +2.3 s/lap


4th-9th separated by less than 1st-2nd. 8O (You'd have to think Ferrari are sandbagging a bit though surely)

If that remains or similar is carried over then the midfield battle will be great, 7th-18th separated by less than half a second is mad, a good quali or one mistake can make such a big difference to your weekend.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:25 am 
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kleefton wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I don't think that you can blame the drivers.


Vandoorne does absolutely nothing. Alonso, while he is driving the heck out of the car, is also a very expensive malcontent. At this point in his career, he should be in a top car and Mclaren doesn't have one and recently admitted they won't have one for a while. So Alonso at mclaren just doesn't make any sense anymore. Not for him, not for Mclaren. So imo, yes they should let both of them go.


He's not expensive. He will bring make Mclaren his wages back in prize money this year if they finish 5th instead of 7th in the WCC.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:27 am 
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Grosjean hitting the Marmot:


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:36 am 
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Standout is Lewis and Alonso. Both on ultrasofts.
Lewis engine on seventh race wow, Merc still holds a massive engine advantage.
Alonso and even Stoffel always looked good in fp1 and fp2 so good signs coming from mclaren


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:49 am 
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AravJ wrote:
Standout is Lewis and Alonso. Both on ultrasofts.
Lewis engine on seventh race wow, Merc still holds a massive engine advantage.
Alonso and even Stoffel always looked good in fp1 and fp2 so good signs coming from mclaren


Lewis set his time on Supersofts.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:27 am 
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According to Daniel, he thinks Red Bull can only challenge Ferrari as Mercedes were running harder compound tyres. Mercedes were really quick on those tyres and believe they will have a strong race.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:09 am 
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Noni wrote:
According to Daniel, he thinks Red Bull can only challenge Ferrari as Mercedes were running harder compound tyres. Mercedes were really quick on those tyres and believe they will have a strong race.


I guess it now depends on whether Mercedes can get the the hyper soft tires switched on for qualifying though, that's something we don't know yet.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:36 am 
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Lotus49 wrote:
AravJ wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:

You mean 10kw(13bhp) from the bigger exhaust manifold? Still no reason why McLaren wouldn't allow them to make a similar change if Honda told them what it would bring.

Doing that might have been tricky though admittedly as Honda called it an "unexpected" gain so if you can't tell your chassis maker what any change will bring how can that chassis maker decide if it's worth the compromise to the car?

Probably a good example of why the McHonda partnership failed actually,Honda are still in a learning phase, more trial and error really whereas McLaren and Alonso were, perhaps foolishly or unfairly, expecting much much more.


Also foolishly or unfairly expecting Honda could pull the midfield chassis to the front


Not really, Alonso said they lacked to the top guys more than once. Unfortunately he also said they had "one of the best" so predictably the "one" was dropped and that's all anyone chooses to remember which is neither McLaren or Alonso's problem really.

Plus we had 3 different chassis's during the McHonda era so which is it or are we expected to believe now that they are the only team to suffer no variance in performance chassis wise during this time?

I'm going to guess it's the latter to go along with the ridiculous picking and choosing of what Alonso quotes are supposed to sum up McLaren's view on their own chassis recently.

I think we know the implications of saying one of the best, also now we see people losing their jobs, these people who only a year ago were able to design one of the best cars in F1, that doesn't add up.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:26 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
moby wrote:
dompclarke wrote:
pokerman wrote:
It's actual very relevant, Honda were able to find an extra 30hp from the get go just by the extra room they were given by STR for the engine installation.

I've heard this said before, but seen nothing to back it up. Have Honda actually said this or is it just hearsay?
Also if true this is also Hondas fault, they could have told Mclaren they needed the space, can't blame only one party


I think I recall reading it was because STR allowed Honda room to fit a 'log' exhaust.
I just googled but can not find an article so maybe it was 'made up'


There was room left in the STR chassis where Renault took up more space in that area so Honda increased the size of the manifold and got an unexpected power bump from it.

Not 30bhp though, but 13bhp.

I think the unexpected part is a pretty salient point. McLaren can hardly be accused of holding them back there when even Honda weren't aware of the potential gains to be made

McLaren clearly dictated that their car came first and Honda had to work around that, I've seen it being said that Honda are now finding it easier to work without certain restrictions being put on them.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:28 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I hate driver coaching, telling Stroll how to drive the track.

I don't really mind it. If they aren't told when they're on track they get the info inbetween runs anyway.

You can put Stroll in a Mercedes, tell him to brake, turn in and get on the power at the same points Hamilton does, he still won't beat him. Knowing how to do something and actually being able to do it are two very different things.

Apparently in this case they were scared of him crashing into the wall of champions again. :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:29 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
Mercedes looking good on the long runs.

    Canadian GP long-run average lap times
    Driver Team Lap Time Tyres
    Lewis Hamilton Mercedes . 1:16.4 Ultrasofts
    Valtteri Bottas Mercedes 1:16.5 Ultrasofts
    Max Verstappen . Red Bull . 1:16.6 Hypersofts
    Kimi Raikkonen . Ferrari 1:16.7 Ultrasofts

Sorry about the crappy formatting, but this forum software is not the most, er, flexible

Cheers :thumbup:

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:31 pm 
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kleefton wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I don't think that you can blame the drivers.


Vandoorne does absolutely nothing. Alonso, while he is driving the heck out of the car, is also a very expensive malcontent. At this point in his career, he should be in a top car and Mclaren doesn't have one and recently admitted they won't have one for a while. So Alonso at mclaren just doesn't make any sense anymore. Not for him, not for Mclaren. So imo, yes they should let both of them go.

Fair enough, I thought you was blaming them for the performance of the car.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:33 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Taken from Formula 1's official website:

Long-run pace deficit (seconds per lap)
1. Mercedes
2. Red Bull +0.6 s/lap
3. Ferrari +1 s/lap
4. Force India +1.4 s/lap
5. McLaren +1.5 s/lap
6. Renault +1.6 s/lap
7. Toro Rosso +1.7 s/lap
8. Haas +1.7 s/lap
9. Sauber +1.8 s/lap
10. Williams +2.3 s/lap

McLaren are doing better than I thought they would, I thought they would struggle on this track.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:35 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Taken from Formula 1's official website:

Long-run pace deficit (seconds per lap)
1. Mercedes
2. Red Bull +0.6 s/lap
3. Ferrari +1 s/lap
4. Force India +1.4 s/lap
5. McLaren +1.5 s/lap
6. Renault +1.6 s/lap
7. Toro Rosso +1.7 s/lap
8. Haas +1.7 s/lap
9. Sauber +1.8 s/lap
10. Williams +2.3 s/lap


4th-9th separated by less than 1st-2nd. 8O (You'd have to think Ferrari are sandbagging a bit though surely)

If that remains or similar is carried over then the midfield battle will be great, 7th-18th separated by less than half a second is mad, a good quali or one mistake can make such a big difference to your weekend.

Yes that seems to be how Ferrari are operating this year, they never show their hand on the Friday in comparison to Mercedes.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:37 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Grosjean hitting the Marmot:


I wouldn't have said the animal was massive, Grosjean would be prone too exaggerate? :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:41 pm 
pokerman wrote:
McLaren clearly dictated that their car came first and Honda had to work around that, I've seen it being said that Honda are now finding it easier to work without certain restrictions being put on them.

Again it's something I've heard banded about and seen in articles, but never with any evidence for it just opinion. I can believe it possible that it happened, I'd just like more than rumour and personal opinion before I believe it was the case...


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:37 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
moby wrote:
dompclarke wrote:
Also if true this is also Hondas fault, they could have told Mclaren they needed the space, can't blame only one party


I think I recall reading it was because STR allowed Honda room to fit a 'log' exhaust.
I just googled but can not find an article so maybe it was 'made up'


There was room left in the STR chassis where Renault took up more space in that area so Honda increased the size of the manifold and got an unexpected power bump from it.

Not 30bhp though, but 13bhp.

I think the unexpected part is a pretty salient point. McLaren can hardly be accused of holding them back there when even Honda weren't aware of the potential gains to be made

McLaren clearly dictated that their car came first and Honda had to work around that, I've seen it being said that Honda are now finding it easier to work without certain restrictions being put on them.

McLaren undoubtedly put forward what they wanted, and it was up to Honda to tell then whether it was feasible or not. That's how a partnership works.

But I wonder why we never saw any reports during the McLaren-Honda years of Honda telling McLaren that they could gain an extra 30bhp if they only gave Honda more freedom. All I seem to remember is Honda admitting they messed up. If Honda didn't even know where gains could be made, how is it McLaren's responsibility?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:04 pm 
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So it seems the reason Vettel spent so long in the garage yesterday was that they were comparing old and new spec floors, according to Mark Hughes. Didn't say which was better!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:06 pm 
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"Mercedes are looking best to land pole position at the moment," reckons Sky F1's Paul di Resta.

http://www.skysports.com/f1/live-blog


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:28 pm 
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Horner said the delta between US and HS is 0.3, well that's pretty rubbish. Everyone starting on the US then, hopefully someone goes aggressive and starts on the HS.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:38 pm 
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kimi flying


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:42 pm 
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lucifers wrote:
kimi flying


They got more in the bag

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:49 pm 
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Versteppen could be a race spoiler if he keeps his nose clean

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:53 pm 
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Ferrari are fastest here. The race may be a different story though. I think tire life will be important and Ferrari have struggled with that this season relateive to Mercedes and Red Bull.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:56 pm 
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Don't forget today's the first day that the Mercs have strapped on the HS tyres and they are still learning them. And Hamilton is still only half a tenth behind the Ferraris (discounting the Red Bulls a bit in qualifying because I think the Mercs and Ferrari will turn the engine up). So I think there may be more to come


Last edited by Zoue on Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:57 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
Horner said the delta between US and HS is 0.3, well that's pretty rubbish. Everyone starting on the US then, hopefully someone goes aggressive and starts on the HS.

according to Pirelli themselves it's over a second, which personally I think is a bit ambitious


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:58 pm 
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surprised at Alonso being so much slower than Vandoorne so far. He was green everywhere on that last lap, too


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:03 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Horner said the delta between US and HS is 0.3, well that's pretty rubbish. Everyone starting on the US then, hopefully someone goes aggressive and starts on the HS.

according to Pirelli themselves it's over a second, which personally I think is a bit ambitious

The deltas are never as large as Pirelli claims they will be.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:04 pm 
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Rear graining on Vettel's rear hypersoft tyre and that's not looking like the tyre you want to start on," observes Paul di Resta as the German reaches the end of his stint.

He dropped a full second in lap time on his final lap.


http://www.skysports.com/f1/live-blog

hmm, not sure i'm keen on that much deg!


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