The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

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pokerman
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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by pokerman »

Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:Any news on whether Kimi is running any more of the new spec parts this weekend?

Apparently Vettel has a modification to the front brakes which Kimi doesn't have yet, Hamilton did say Vettel was the #1 driver, was he right?

Where did he say that?

When he was asked what he was looking for in his new contract, he mentioned that he never asks for #1 status unlike drivers like Alonso and unlike Vettel who has it stipulated in his Ferrari contract

Link please? Only thing I can find is this where he says nothing of the sort.
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns30588.html

Yes that is the interview, I got it wrong :blush:
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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by Lotus38 »

And how exactly does Hamilton know what is written or not in Vettel's and Alonso's contracts? As much as I like Hamilton aas a driver he seems to be getting a bit cocky of late.
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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by mas »

Zoue wrote:Kimi Raikkonen: “The feeling with the car today was pretty ok, obviously there are some small issues but they are more related to the tyres: it’s difficult to make them warm up, especially the front tyres, but overall it’s not too bad. "

Ah. Don't expect too much from qualifying, then...


http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/129 ... -tyre-grip

"Like I said we have to get the tyres working so it would have been nice to try the supersoft to see, I think they will work much easier. Not a bad start." Asked about his chances in qualifying, Raikkonen said: "Obviously we have to see how the weather is and work on the car a little bit and make sure the tyres work well and go from there and do the best that we can in qualifying and in the race."

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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by Mercedes-Benz »

At Renault Grosjean was faster than him in qualifying and that was his biggest problem. Although in race it did help him to get more out for the tyre. It is the same this year. With lower temperature I expected another mediocre performance today but he simply can't make row2 :x
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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by Zoue »


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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by ImaCobra »

Mercedes-Benz wrote:At Renault Grosjean was faster than him in qualifying and that was his biggest problem. Although in race it did help him to get more out for the tyre. It is the same this year. With lower temperature I expected another mediocre performance today but he simply can't make row2 :x


Yeah and since Grosjean is nowhere near the quality Alonso or Vettel are, Kimi could compensate his bad qualifying in the races and often finish ahead of him. He's not able to do that now.

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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by cosmo »

I think Canada is his last chance to have a contract next year. He is just a shade of the driver he was...

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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by dizlexik »

cosmo wrote:I think Canada is his last chance to have a contract next year. He is just a shade of the driver he was...

I thought the contract for next season is nearly singed. Kimi is still best Ferrari option in my opinion. I don't think Ricciardo would come anytime soon anyway. Noone else is better than Kimi.
eeee

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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by cosmo »

Is not that he has not race pace, he has, also today until the safety car(63 lap), he was only 13-15 sec behind Vettel after beeing held by both RedBull drivers, i think if he qualified 4 he could have been on the podium(undercut, Hamilton mistake). Also in Spain until he catch Bottas, near the end of the race he was 8 sec behind Bottas and on faster tyres, but he couldn't pass...Spain and Monaco is so hard to pass other cars... also in Bahrein and China he was faster then Vettel, so the race pace is there, but when you qualify so low(6) there are some GP(Spain, Monaco, Budapest, Singapore) where you cannot pass other cars...by now Ferrari will give number 1 status to Vettel, so even if Kimi will be faster then german he won't be allow to pass/undercut/best car parts, etc...

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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by Zoue »

cosmo wrote:Is not that he has not race pace, he has, also today until the safety car(63 lap), he was only 13-15 sec behind Vettel after beeing held by both RedBull drivers, i think if he qualified 4 he could have been on the podium(undercut, Hamilton mistake). Also in Spain until he catch Bottas, near the end of the race he was 8 sec behind Bottas and on faster tyres, but he couldn't pass...Spain and Monaco is so hard to pass other cars... also in Bahrein and China he was faster then Vettel, so the race pace is there, but when you qualify so low(6) there are some GP(Spain, Monaco, Budapest, Singapore) where you cannot pass other cars...by now Ferrari will give number 1 status to Vettel, so even if Kimi will be faster then german he won't be allow to pass/undercut/best car parts, etc...

I agree that he's much better in the races, but not that he won't be allowed to pass Seb. There's no evidence of that and it's Kimi's own fault that he's always chasing his team mate's tail.

Today I think he was very unlucky. I thought he drove well and did great to put in a flyer after RIC pitted in order to get ahead of him. I thought RIC's move was too aggressive and he should have had a penalty IMO. F1 isn't bumper cars and I do think Kimi was robbed of 5th place. I think Ferrari should have complained harder to the stewards as they were horribly inconsistent today.

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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by James14 »

Zoue wrote:
cosmo wrote:Is not that he has not race pace, he has, also today until the safety car(63 lap), he was only 13-15 sec behind Vettel after beeing held by both RedBull drivers, i think if he qualified 4 he could have been on the podium(undercut, Hamilton mistake). Also in Spain until he catch Bottas, near the end of the race he was 8 sec behind Bottas and on faster tyres, but he couldn't pass...Spain and Monaco is so hard to pass other cars... also in Bahrein and China he was faster then Vettel, so the race pace is there, but when you qualify so low(6) there are some GP(Spain, Monaco, Budapest, Singapore) where you cannot pass other cars...by now Ferrari will give number 1 status to Vettel, so even if Kimi will be faster then german he won't be allow to pass/undercut/best car parts, etc...

I agree that he's much better in the races, but not that he won't be allowed to pass Seb. There's no evidence of that and it's Kimi's own fault that he's always chasing his team mate's tail.

Today I think he was very unlucky. I thought he drove well and did great to put in a flyer after RIC pitted in order to get ahead of him. I thought RIC's move was too aggressive and he should have had a penalty IMO. F1 isn't bumper cars and I do think Kimi was robbed of 5th place. I think Ferrari should have complained harder to the stewards as they were horribly inconsistent today.


I cannot understand why RIC did not get a penalty whilst Alonso did. Whilst in theory I would not object to a bit of aggressive driving being allowed, it's the consistency of the stewards that annoys me at times.
Kimi drove well at times but it is qualifying that is letting him down sadly. The time is not far away I guess when Ferrari will have to give Vettel No1 status if they have any hope of mounting a challenge to the Mercs. The next couple of races are crucial for Kimi, in this regard, I feel.

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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

James14 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
cosmo wrote:Is not that he has not race pace, he has, also today until the safety car(63 lap), he was only 13-15 sec behind Vettel after beeing held by both RedBull drivers, i think if he qualified 4 he could have been on the podium(undercut, Hamilton mistake). Also in Spain until he catch Bottas, near the end of the race he was 8 sec behind Bottas and on faster tyres, but he couldn't pass...Spain and Monaco is so hard to pass other cars... also in Bahrein and China he was faster then Vettel, so the race pace is there, but when you qualify so low(6) there are some GP(Spain, Monaco, Budapest, Singapore) where you cannot pass other cars...by now Ferrari will give number 1 status to Vettel, so even if Kimi will be faster then german he won't be allow to pass/undercut/best car parts, etc...

I agree that he's much better in the races, but not that he won't be allowed to pass Seb. There's no evidence of that and it's Kimi's own fault that he's always chasing his team mate's tail.

Today I think he was very unlucky. I thought he drove well and did great to put in a flyer after RIC pitted in order to get ahead of him. I thought RIC's move was too aggressive and he should have had a penalty IMO. F1 isn't bumper cars and I do think Kimi was robbed of 5th place. I think Ferrari should have complained harder to the stewards as they were horribly inconsistent today.


I cannot understand why RIC did not get a penalty whilst Alonso did. Whilst in theory I would not object to a bit of aggressive driving being allowed, it's the consistency of the stewards that annoys me at times.
Kimi drove well at times but it is qualifying that is letting him down sadly. The time is not far away I guess when Ferrari will have to give Vettel No1 status if they have any hope of mounting a challenge to the Mercs. The next couple of races are crucial for Kimi, in this regard, I feel.

Actually I can see how the incidents are different.


Alonso was given room by Hulkenberg, was fully alongside, Alonso then lost the car and hit Hulk.

Ricciardo on the other hand committed to the inside and you can see from the onboard that Kimi slowly closes the gap.

I suppose the Ricciardo one comes down to the age old issue of what constitutes having a significant part of the car alongside?

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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by Zoue »

Black_Flag_11 wrote:
James14 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
cosmo wrote:Is not that he has not race pace, he has, also today until the safety car(63 lap), he was only 13-15 sec behind Vettel after beeing held by both RedBull drivers, i think if he qualified 4 he could have been on the podium(undercut, Hamilton mistake). Also in Spain until he catch Bottas, near the end of the race he was 8 sec behind Bottas and on faster tyres, but he couldn't pass...Spain and Monaco is so hard to pass other cars... also in Bahrein and China he was faster then Vettel, so the race pace is there, but when you qualify so low(6) there are some GP(Spain, Monaco, Budapest, Singapore) where you cannot pass other cars...by now Ferrari will give number 1 status to Vettel, so even if Kimi will be faster then german he won't be allow to pass/undercut/best car parts, etc...

I agree that he's much better in the races, but not that he won't be allowed to pass Seb. There's no evidence of that and it's Kimi's own fault that he's always chasing his team mate's tail.

Today I think he was very unlucky. I thought he drove well and did great to put in a flyer after RIC pitted in order to get ahead of him. I thought RIC's move was too aggressive and he should have had a penalty IMO. F1 isn't bumper cars and I do think Kimi was robbed of 5th place. I think Ferrari should have complained harder to the stewards as they were horribly inconsistent today.


I cannot understand why RIC did not get a penalty whilst Alonso did. Whilst in theory I would not object to a bit of aggressive driving being allowed, it's the consistency of the stewards that annoys me at times.
Kimi drove well at times but it is qualifying that is letting him down sadly. The time is not far away I guess when Ferrari will have to give Vettel No1 status if they have any hope of mounting a challenge to the Mercs. The next couple of races are crucial for Kimi, in this regard, I feel.

Actually I can see how the incidents are different.


Alonso was given room by Hulkenberg, was fully alongside, Alonso then lost the car and hit Hulk.

Ricciardo on the other hand committed to the inside and you can see from the onboard that Kimi slowly closes the gap.

I suppose the Ricciardo one comes down to the age old issue of what constitutes having a significant part of the car alongside?

I'm not sure what Kimi was supposed to have done? Wave him past?

As soon as RIC made his move Kimi basically had no chance to make the corner. But that's ridiculous when you consider RIC was well behind. It can't be that a lunge like that means the guy in front has to give way. It was RIC's responsibility to brake and avoid the collision. I still think the stewards were poor today

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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by mas »

I lost respect for Ricciardo with that move. There was not a car's width space for him to do that move and he basically presented Kimi with an either yield or crash option. The fact that Kimi's rear made contact with Ricciardo's front shows that the move was never legitimately on. When interviewed on BBC and showed the video by Perry who commented about the lack of space Ricciardo just laughed and said 'It's Monaco, it's all good'.

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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by Zoue »

mas wrote:I lost respect for Ricciardo with that move. There was not a car's width space for him to do that move and he basically presented Kimi with an either yield or crash option. The fact that Kimi's rear made contact with Ricciardo's front shows that the move was never legitimately on. When interviewed on BBC and showed the video by Perry who commented about the lack of space Ricciardo just laughed and said 'It's Monaco, it's all good'.

the bolded bit sums it up. He should have been punished

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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by Exediron »

Zoue wrote:
mas wrote:I lost respect for Ricciardo with that move. There was not a car's width space for him to do that move and he basically presented Kimi with an either yield or crash option. The fact that Kimi's rear made contact with Ricciardo's front shows that the move was never legitimately on. When interviewed on BBC and showed the video by Perry who commented about the lack of space Ricciardo just laughed and said 'It's Monaco, it's all good'.

the bolded bit sums it up. He should have been punished

I'm usually a big Ricciardo supporter, but this time I have to agree; that move wasn't really on, and I for one was very surprised when he didn't come away from it with 5 seconds added to his time at least - or simply being asked to yield the place back, for that matter.
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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by RaggedMan »

I wouldn't go so far as to say I lost respect for Ricciardo today. All drivers have a move, or two, like that in their past. Although the comment was kinda cheeky.

What I was surprised about though was how fast a decision came down. Usually when something like that happens in the last few laps they put it off until after the race but this came down within a couple of laps.
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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by Exediron »

RaggedMan wrote:I wouldn't go so far as to say I lost respect for Ricciardo today. All drivers have a move, or two, like that in their past. Although the comment was kinda cheeky.

What I was surprised about though was how fast a decision came down. Usually when something like that happens in the last few laps they put it off until after the race but this came down within a couple of laps.

I think that's due to the fan backlash at changing positions after the race, so in this case I agree with making the decision quickly - just not with the decision they made. Giving the place back to Kimi would have been fairer to me.
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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by RaggedMan »

Exediron wrote:
RaggedMan wrote:I wouldn't go so far as to say I lost respect for Ricciardo today. All drivers have a move, or two, like that in their past. Although the comment was kinda cheeky.

What I was surprised about though was how fast a decision came down. Usually when something like that happens in the last few laps they put it off until after the race but this came down within a couple of laps.

I think that's due to the fan backlash at changing positions after the race, so in this case I agree with making the decision quickly - just not with the decision they made. Giving the place back to Kimi would have been fairer to me.

I agree that changing things after the race is over isn't the best solution, but I'd rather they make the right call late than the wrong call early.
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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by infi24r »

James14 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
cosmo wrote:Is not that he has not race pace, he has, also today until the safety car(63 lap), he was only 13-15 sec behind Vettel after beeing held by both RedBull drivers, i think if he qualified 4 he could have been on the podium(undercut, Hamilton mistake). Also in Spain until he catch Bottas, near the end of the race he was 8 sec behind Bottas and on faster tyres, but he couldn't pass...Spain and Monaco is so hard to pass other cars... also in Bahrein and China he was faster then Vettel, so the race pace is there, but when you qualify so low(6) there are some GP(Spain, Monaco, Budapest, Singapore) where you cannot pass other cars...by now Ferrari will give number 1 status to Vettel, so even if Kimi will be faster then german he won't be allow to pass/undercut/best car parts, etc...

I agree that he's much better in the races, but not that he won't be allowed to pass Seb. There's no evidence of that and it's Kimi's own fault that he's always chasing his team mate's tail.

Today I think he was very unlucky. I thought he drove well and did great to put in a flyer after RIC pitted in order to get ahead of him. I thought RIC's move was too aggressive and he should have had a penalty IMO. F1 isn't bumper cars and I do think Kimi was robbed of 5th place. I think Ferrari should have complained harder to the stewards as they were horribly inconsistent today.


I cannot understand why RIC did not get a penalty whilst Alonso did. Whilst in theory I would not object to a bit of aggressive driving being allowed, it's the consistency of the stewards that annoys me at times.
Kimi drove well at times but it is qualifying that is letting him down sadly. The time is not far away I guess when Ferrari will have to give Vettel No1 status if they have any hope of mounting a challenge to the Mercs. The next couple of races are crucial for Kimi, in this regard, I feel.


He's already 38 points behind Vettel. I think Ferrari would already look at maximizing Vettel's result. Raikkonen is consistently in the pack battling with cars he shouldn't be. That he was even able to be passed by Ricciardo like that speaks volumes of his career of late. The Ferrari was a much better car than the Red Bull today. Even an average result would have been an easy 4th.

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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by F1Oz »

Zoue wrote:
mas wrote:I lost respect for Ricciardo with that move. There was not a car's width space for him to do that move and he basically presented Kimi with an either yield or crash option. The fact that Kimi's rear made contact with Ricciardo's front shows that the move was never legitimately on. When interviewed on BBC and showed the video by Perry who commented about the lack of space Ricciardo just laughed and said 'It's Monaco, it's all good'.

the bolded bit sums it up. He should have been punished


Good grief guys - how much F1 have you ever watched?

Actually, KR left the gap open - so Dan had a hopeful look - not aggressively as he closes under braking but just hugging the corner and in the links kindly provided above, you can see there is not much pace on. Kimi should have gone in closer earlier.

Once he is there, then it is up to Kimi to give him room - BUT - Kimi cut across and into Dan (who had nowhere to go) then bounced off and it is Kimi who instigated contact. Dan did not move and could not go further right. It is only the fact that by bouncing off, he eased off the throttle and allowed Dan to get through.

As for 'yield or crash' - RUBBISH! There was more than enough track room for them to go around the corner together. While that would have given Dan the advantage for that corner, he was still 2/3 of a car behind and Kimi should have known that he had the advantage at the upcoming hairpin - so all Kimi needed to do was keep it tight and then push Dan wide at the hairpin. Poor driving from Kimi quite frankly - and as Dan only poked his nose into the gap and did not cause the contact - then rightfully it was not a penalty.

compare this to Alonso - where seeing the incident again, it is clear that he moves out and pushes into Hulkenberg whereas he could have simply held his line.

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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by infi24r »

F1Oz wrote:
Zoue wrote:
mas wrote:I lost respect for Ricciardo with that move. There was not a car's width space for him to do that move and he basically presented Kimi with an either yield or crash option. The fact that Kimi's rear made contact with Ricciardo's front shows that the move was never legitimately on. When interviewed on BBC and showed the video by Perry who commented about the lack of space Ricciardo just laughed and said 'It's Monaco, it's all good'.

the bolded bit sums it up. He should have been punished


Good grief guys - how much F1 have you ever watched?

Actually, KR left the gap open - so Dan had a hopeful look - not aggressively as he closes under braking but just hugging the corner and in the links kindly provided above, you can see there is not much pace on. Kimi should have gone in closer earlier.

Once he is there, then it is up to Kimi to give him room - BUT - Kimi cut across and into Dan (who had nowhere to go) then bounced off and it is Kimi who instigated contact. Dan did not move and could not go further right. It is only the fact that by bouncing off, he eased off the throttle and allowed Dan to get through.

As for 'yield or crash' - RUBBISH! There was more than enough track room for them to go around the corner together. While that would have given Dan the advantage for that corner, he was still 2/3 of a car behind and Kimi should have known that he had the advantage at the upcoming hairpin - so all Kimi needed to do was keep it tight and then push Dan wide at the hairpin. Poor driving from Kimi quite frankly - and as Dan only poked his nose into the gap and did not cause the contact - then rightfully it was not a penalty.

compare this to Alonso - where seeing the incident again, it is clear that he moves out and pushes into Hulkenberg whereas he could have simply held his line.



I agree. I don't see the basis for all the Raikkonen fans screaming about the move. Raikkonen effectively turned into a car that was already there.

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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by EyeZ »

Good grief guys - It's laughable to read such comments by Ozzies, trying to justify Dan's move and insulting other forum members at the same time.

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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by RaggedMan »

F1Oz wrote:
Zoue wrote:
mas wrote:I lost respect for Ricciardo with that move. There was not a car's width space for him to do that move and he basically presented Kimi with an either yield or crash option. The fact that Kimi's rear made contact with Ricciardo's front shows that the move was never legitimately on. When interviewed on BBC and showed the video by Perry who commented about the lack of space Ricciardo just laughed and said 'It's Monaco, it's all good'.

the bolded bit sums it up. He should have been punished


Good grief guys - how much F1 have you ever watched?

Actually, KR left the gap open - so Dan had a hopeful look - not aggressively as he closes under braking but just hugging the corner and in the links kindly provided above, you can see there is not much pace on. Kimi should have gone in closer earlier.

Once he is there, then it is up to Kimi to give him room - BUT - Kimi cut across and into Dan (who had nowhere to go) then bounced off and it is Kimi who instigated contact. Dan did not move and could not go further right. It is only the fact that by bouncing off, he eased off the throttle and allowed Dan to get through.

As for 'yield or crash' - RUBBISH! There was more than enough track room for them to go around the corner together. While that would have given Dan the advantage for that corner, he was still 2/3 of a car behind and Kimi should have known that he had the advantage at the upcoming hairpin - so all Kimi needed to do was keep it tight and then push Dan wide at the hairpin. Poor driving from Kimi quite frankly - and as Dan only poked his nose into the gap and did not cause the contact - then rightfully it was not a penalty.

compare this to Alonso - where seeing the incident again, it is clear that he moves out and pushes into Hulkenberg whereas he could have simply held his line.

What was your opinion on the second lap incident between the Mercedes boys last year at Spa?
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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by Teddy007 »

mas wrote:I lost respect for Ricciardo with that move. There was not a car's width space for him to do that move and he basically presented Kimi with an either yield or crash option. The fact that Kimi's rear made contact with Ricciardo's front shows that the move was never legitimately on. When interviewed on BBC and showed the video by Perry who commented about the lack of space Ricciardo just laughed and said 'It's Monaco, it's all good'.


Your loss, Ric is one of the nicest drivers out there. Lost respect for him? perhaps you should watch more F1.

If you no longer go for a gap, you are no longer a racing driver. Kimi has done the exact same move just like every racing driver has.

You are either too young to know the facts or blinded for your love of Kimi.

As we are on the topic of Kimi, he isn't doing a good enough job compared to his team mate. Both Alonso and Vettel are showing him up. Those fans who claimed he was unhappy in the car can no longer hide behind that excuse.

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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by Zoue »

Teddy007 wrote:
mas wrote:I lost respect for Ricciardo with that move. There was not a car's width space for him to do that move and he basically presented Kimi with an either yield or crash option. The fact that Kimi's rear made contact with Ricciardo's front shows that the move was never legitimately on. When interviewed on BBC and showed the video by Perry who commented about the lack of space Ricciardo just laughed and said 'It's Monaco, it's all good'.


Your loss, Ric is one of the nicest drivers out there. Lost respect for him? perhaps you should watch more F1.

If you no longer go for a gap, you are no longer a racing driver. Kimi has done the exact same move just like every racing driver has.

You are either too young to know the facts or blinded for your love of Kimi.

As we are on the topic of Kimi, he isn't doing a good enough job compared to his team mate. Both Alonso and Vettel are showing him up. Those fans who claimed he was unhappy in the car can no longer hide behind that excuse.

er, who made you the arbiter of opinions?

There is another option which you neglected to mention: that one might feel the overtake attempt by Ricciardo was too aggressive and left the fate of both cars entirely in Kimi's hands. No-one has to be "blinded by love" in order to take that viewpoint.

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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by superkaas »

From now on, all Kimi related discussion should start with 'Had he qualified better...'

Kimi is the master of his own downfall. His Sundays would be spectacular if he always started top four.

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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by mas »

Inappropriate post removed.

mas
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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by mas »

Ferrari F1 boss gives Kimi Raikkonen qualifying 'homework'

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119166

Explaining Raikkonen's woes, Arrivabene said: "The problem with Kimi was qualifying. "He caught some traffic, and there was a very big gap to the guys in front of him. "But then during the race you saw, at a certain part of the race, he had the same pace as Sebastian. "So if he improves in qualifying then he will have no problems in a race because Kimi in a race is super and he can do a good job." With a wry smile, Arrivabene then added: "If I have to give him some homework then he has to write 100 times 'I have to be better in qualifying'."

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Soren
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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by Soren »

Top o' the mornin' guys. I did my usual race review. Actually, it is more my personal slam on the current regulations and the things that they kill. But a rundown of the major incidents of Monaco as well. Unfiltered if you like.

For those who might be interested: http://f1bias.com/2015/05/25/monaco-gp-15-f1-lamentations-and-reflections/
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

Le blog: http://f1bias.com/

Kimi fans on FB: http://www.facebook.com/groups/kimifanclub/

lbennie
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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by lbennie »

there was absolutely nothing wrong with what ricciardo did.

Kimi should not have made his defensive move once ric was already along side.

I'll quote the rules:

20.4 Any driver defending his position on a straight, and before any braking area, may use the full width of the track during his first move, provided no significant portion of the car attempting to pass is alongside his. Whilst defending in this way the driver may not leave the track without justifiable reason.

For the avoidance of doubt, if any part of the front wing of the car attempting to pass is alongside the rear wheel of the car in front this will be deemed to be a ‘significant portion’.

F1Oz
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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by F1Oz »

Thanks Ibennie - as you say, proves there was nothing wrong with what Dan did - perhaps some of those like EyeZ should reconsider their comments.

Some of us are racing fans - and while we naturally have preferences - we try to call it fairly

I'm on record elsewhere saying FA's penalty seemed harsh - although the replay does show movement that I didn't really notice at the time of the incident.

We didn't see the pass live (in Oz at least) so it was good to see the replay - a mistake from Kimi.

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bourbon19
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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by bourbon19 »

Black_Flag_11 wrote:
James14 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
cosmo wrote:Is not that he has not race pace, he has, also today until the safety car(63 lap), he was only 13-15 sec behind Vettel after beeing held by both RedBull drivers, i think if he qualified 4 he could have been on the podium(undercut, Hamilton mistake). Also in Spain until he catch Bottas, near the end of the race he was 8 sec behind Bottas and on faster tyres, but he couldn't pass...Spain and Monaco is so hard to pass other cars... also in Bahrein and China he was faster then Vettel, so the race pace is there, but when you qualify so low(6) there are some GP(Spain, Monaco, Budapest, Singapore) where you cannot pass other cars...by now Ferrari will give number 1 status to Vettel, so even if Kimi will be faster then german he won't be allow to pass/undercut/best car parts, etc...

I agree that he's much better in the races, but not that he won't be allowed to pass Seb. There's no evidence of that and it's Kimi's own fault that he's always chasing his team mate's tail.

Today I think he was very unlucky. I thought he drove well and did great to put in a flyer after RIC pitted in order to get ahead of him. I thought RIC's move was too aggressive and he should have had a penalty IMO. F1 isn't bumper cars and I do think Kimi was robbed of 5th place. I think Ferrari should have complained harder to the stewards as they were horribly inconsistent today.


I cannot understand why RIC did not get a penalty whilst Alonso did. Whilst in theory I would not object to a bit of aggressive driving being allowed, it's the consistency of the stewards that annoys me at times.
Kimi drove well at times but it is qualifying that is letting him down sadly. The time is not far away I guess when Ferrari will have to give Vettel No1 status if they have any hope of mounting a challenge to the Mercs. The next couple of races are crucial for Kimi, in this regard, I feel.

Actually I can see how the incidents are different.


Alonso was given room by Hulkenberg, was fully alongside, Alonso then lost the car and hit Hulk.

Ricciardo on the other hand committed to the inside and you can see from the onboard that Kimi slowly closes the gap.

I suppose the Ricciardo one comes down to the age old issue of what constitutes having a significant part of the car alongside?


I don't know, but I know it is more than the front wing and wheel...

In my opinion Ric merited a penalty for that, just as Alonso got. Apparently may did as Crofty said he was receiving a lot of emails criticizing the move. According to his post race interview, Dan saw nothing wrong with it, but I disagree https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITbf2gbSoHI

I have to agree that Kimi would benefit from qualifying better, but both drivers will benefit if Ferrari can get more speed into the car - ultimately, that is the goal.

lbennie
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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by lbennie »

bourbon19 wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
James14 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
cosmo wrote:Is not that he has not race pace, he has, also today until the safety car(63 lap), he was only 13-15 sec behind Vettel after beeing held by both RedBull drivers, i think if he qualified 4 he could have been on the podium(undercut, Hamilton mistake). Also in Spain until he catch Bottas, near the end of the race he was 8 sec behind Bottas and on faster tyres, but he couldn't pass...Spain and Monaco is so hard to pass other cars... also in Bahrein and China he was faster then Vettel, so the race pace is there, but when you qualify so low(6) there are some GP(Spain, Monaco, Budapest, Singapore) where you cannot pass other cars...by now Ferrari will give number 1 status to Vettel, so even if Kimi will be faster then german he won't be allow to pass/undercut/best car parts, etc...

I agree that he's much better in the races, but not that he won't be allowed to pass Seb. There's no evidence of that and it's Kimi's own fault that he's always chasing his team mate's tail.

Today I think he was very unlucky. I thought he drove well and did great to put in a flyer after RIC pitted in order to get ahead of him. I thought RIC's move was too aggressive and he should have had a penalty IMO. F1 isn't bumper cars and I do think Kimi was robbed of 5th place. I think Ferrari should have complained harder to the stewards as they were horribly inconsistent today.


I cannot understand why RIC did not get a penalty whilst Alonso did. Whilst in theory I would not object to a bit of aggressive driving being allowed, it's the consistency of the stewards that annoys me at times.
Kimi drove well at times but it is qualifying that is letting him down sadly. The time is not far away I guess when Ferrari will have to give Vettel No1 status if they have any hope of mounting a challenge to the Mercs. The next couple of races are crucial for Kimi, in this regard, I feel.

Actually I can see how the incidents are different.


Alonso was given room by Hulkenberg, was fully alongside, Alonso then lost the car and hit Hulk.

Ricciardo on the other hand committed to the inside and you can see from the onboard that Kimi slowly closes the gap.

I suppose the Ricciardo one comes down to the age old issue of what constitutes having a significant part of the car alongside?


I don't know, but I know it is more than the front wing and wheel...

In my opinion Ric merited a penalty for that, just as Alonso got. Apparently may did as Crofty said he was receiving a lot of emails criticizing the move. According to his post race interview, Dan saw nothing wrong with it, but I disagree https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITbf2gbSoHI

I have to agree that Kimi would benefit from qualifying better, but both drivers will benefit if Ferrari can get more speed into the car - ultimately, that is the goal.


Read the bolded part of my post above bourbs, it's pretty black & white, I can't see how you could argue with it.

Teddy007
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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by Teddy007 »

Zoue wrote:
Teddy007 wrote:
mas wrote:I lost respect for Ricciardo with that move. There was not a car's width space for him to do that move and he basically presented Kimi with an either yield or crash option. The fact that Kimi's rear made contact with Ricciardo's front shows that the move was never legitimately on. When interviewed on BBC and showed the video by Perry who commented about the lack of space Ricciardo just laughed and said 'It's Monaco, it's all good'.


Your loss, Ric is one of the nicest drivers out there. Lost respect for him? perhaps you should watch more F1.

If you no longer go for a gap, you are no longer a racing driver. Kimi has done the exact same move just like every racing driver has.

You are either too young to know the facts or blinded for your love of Kimi.

As we are on the topic of Kimi, he isn't doing a good enough job compared to his team mate. Both Alonso and Vettel are showing him up. Those fans who claimed he was unhappy in the car can no longer hide behind that excuse.

er, who made you the arbiter of opinions?

There is another option which you neglected to mention: that one might feel the overtake attempt by Ricciardo was too aggressive and left the fate of both cars entirely in Kimi's hands. No-one has to be "blinded by love" in order to take that viewpoint.


Kimi had two choices, close the gap or let him have space.

That's why the penalty didn't occur and that's the fact. Watch the YouTube video it shows clearly Kimi either thinking Rics car would magically disappear. FIA deemed he didn't deserve a penalty after Alonso got one.

So its tough luck really.

Zoue
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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by Zoue »

Teddy007 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Teddy007 wrote:
mas wrote:I lost respect for Ricciardo with that move. There was not a car's width space for him to do that move and he basically presented Kimi with an either yield or crash option. The fact that Kimi's rear made contact with Ricciardo's front shows that the move was never legitimately on. When interviewed on BBC and showed the video by Perry who commented about the lack of space Ricciardo just laughed and said 'It's Monaco, it's all good'.


Your loss, Ric is one of the nicest drivers out there. Lost respect for him? perhaps you should watch more F1.

If you no longer go for a gap, you are no longer a racing driver. Kimi has done the exact same move just like every racing driver has.

You are either too young to know the facts or blinded for your love of Kimi.

As we are on the topic of Kimi, he isn't doing a good enough job compared to his team mate. Both Alonso and Vettel are showing him up. Those fans who claimed he was unhappy in the car can no longer hide behind that excuse.

er, who made you the arbiter of opinions?

There is another option which you neglected to mention: that one might feel the overtake attempt by Ricciardo was too aggressive and left the fate of both cars entirely in Kimi's hands. No-one has to be "blinded by love" in order to take that viewpoint.


Kimi had two choices, close the gap or let him have space.

That's why the penalty didn't occur and that's the fact. Watch the YouTube video it shows clearly Kimi either thinking Rics car would magically disappear. FIA deemed he didn't deserve a penalty after Alonso got one.

So its tough luck really.

it's the bolded bit above I was referring to. Just because someone has a different opinion to you doesn't entitle you to insult them (and, by implication, anyone else who holds that view).

trento
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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by trento »

Teddy007 wrote:
Kimi had two choices, close the gap or let him have space.

That's why the penalty didn't occur and that's the fact. Watch the YouTube video it shows clearly Kimi either thinking Rics car would magically disappear. FIA deemed he didn't deserve a penalty after Alonso got one.

So its tough luck really.


Kimi tends to be very careful in racing situations. The reality is look what Hulk received for racing Alonso hard?

But I think Kimi could have taken a slightly different line into the corner. I guess he didn't expect it and it was too late. This is the difference between a good driver and an experienced one. Kimi saw Ric and reacted in time. Hulk simply thought Alonso would yield.

While Kimi's position was disappointing, it's situations like these that shows a driver's maturity and some points is still better than none.

I still feel Kimi's time is probably up and he should consider retirement as he would not race in a lower team. Experience can only do so much and if we take his recent results with teammates as the yardstick, there are at least 4-5 drivers capable of taking his seat.

Kimi's teammates- Massa, Alonso, Vettel

Button quicker than Alonso, or matching him.
Ric quicker than Vettel
Kvyat matching Ric
Bottas quicker than Massa (Massa matching Kimi)

I hate to say this, but i think his time is up.

Nosebuckle
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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by Nosebuckle »

lbennie wrote:there was absolutely nothing wrong with what ricciardo did.

Kimi should not have made his defensive move once ric was already along side.

I'll quote the rules:

20.4 Any driver defending his position on a straight, and before any braking area, may use the full width of the track during his first move, provided no significant portion of the car attempting to pass is alongside his. Whilst defending in this way the driver may not leave the track without justifiable reason.

For the avoidance of doubt, if any part of the front wing of the car attempting to pass is alongside the rear wheel of the car in front this will be deemed to be a ‘significant portion’.


Is this the correct rule for the situation? I ask because it looks to me that they were in the braking zone and turning for the corner. That said, I haven't lost any respect for RIC; he may have been a tad ambitious but hardly the worst I've seen. Kimi could have given him room by taking a wider line which would have set him up for a good defense into the hairpin, but I think Dan wold have passed him at some point, being on better tyres.

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infi24r
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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by infi24r »

trento wrote:[
Kimi's teammates- Massa, Alonso, Vettel

Button quicker than Alonso, or matching him.
Ric quicker than Vettel
Kvyat matching Ric
Bottas quicker than Massa (Massa matching Kimi)


Half of that is just nonsense.

Button hasn't been faster than Alonso at all, Alonso has actually been ahead of him in every race bar Monaco and even at Monaco he was right on his tail despite his car failing in qualifying.

Kvyat is no were near the pace of Ricciardo. Its 5-1 in qualifying so far and their race margins at times have been huge.

I agree with you overall that Button, Ricciardo and Bottas would definitely do a better job than Raikkonen at this point. I'd be less convinced drivers like Massa and Kvyat would.

F1Oz
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Re: The Official Kimi Räikkonen thread

Post by F1Oz »

infi - how many races at Monaco have you seen 8)

Even with a car a couple of seconds a lap faster, it's almost impossible to pass without tyres totally shot or a mistake from the driver ahead.

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