Alonso and Vettel

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mikeyg123
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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by mikeyg123 »

Rockie wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
KingVoid wrote:I don’t think that Alonso drove better than Vettel did in 2010.

People will remember Vettels mistakes in Turkey and Belgium; but Alonso’s are ignored. Alonso made mistakes in Australia, China, Monaco, Silverstone and Belgium. He could have won the WDC by over 40 points without those mistakes.

Yes, Red Bull was faster than Ferrari, but Alonso’s car was also far more reliable than Vettel’s car. Vettel lost 63 points in Bahrain, Australia and Korea. Alonso gained 16 points in those three races, so Vettel lost a net 79 points relative to Alonso thanks to reliability. That is a huge amount. Alonso’s only car failure came in Malaysia when he was driving in 9th place, and lost only 2 points.

Hamilton, Kubica and Rosberg were the three best drivers of 2010.
Same Hamilton who kept tangling with Webber? and proceeded to take himself out of championship contention.
No-one was largely flawless that year though so it doesn't make much difference as long as it's not more than his rivals which it wasn't. Plus he had a team mate battle with a better driver than Webber so all in all I think he gets the nod.
A team mate better than Webber by what metric, WDC or what?

C'mon let's get serious.
Hang on, aren't you the guy who earlier in this thread who was arguing that Vettel is better than Alonso because he's won more WDC?

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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by Rockie »

pokerman wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
KingVoid wrote:I don’t think that Alonso drove better than Vettel did in 2010.

People will remember Vettels mistakes in Turkey and Belgium; but Alonso’s are ignored. Alonso made mistakes in Australia, China, Monaco, Silverstone and Belgium. He could have won the WDC by over 40 points without those mistakes.

Yes, Red Bull was faster than Ferrari, but Alonso’s car was also far more reliable than Vettel’s car. Vettel lost 63 points in Bahrain, Australia and Korea. Alonso gained 16 points in those three races, so Vettel lost a net 79 points relative to Alonso thanks to reliability. That is a huge amount. Alonso’s only car failure came in Malaysia when he was driving in 9th place, and lost only 2 points.

Hamilton, Kubica and Rosberg were the three best drivers of 2010.
Same Hamilton who kept tangling with Webber? and proceeded to take himself out of championship contention.
No-one was largely flawless that year though so it doesn't make much difference as long as it's not more than his rivals which it wasn't. Plus he had a team mate battle with a better driver than Webber so all in all I think he gets the nod.
A team mate better than Webber by what metric, WDC or what?

C'mon let's get serious.
I think Button showed against Alonso that he was better than Webber.
The joke continues, because he thrashed Hamilton in '11?

Button better than Webber indeed.

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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by Exediron »

Rockie wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Rockie wrote:A team mate better than Webber by what metric, WDC or what?

C'mon let's get serious.
I think Button showed against Alonso that he was better than Webber.
The joke continues, because he thrashed Hamilton in '11?

Button better than Webber indeed.
By what possible metric was Button not better than Webber? C'mon, hit us. You've been sitting here spitting out tough talk, now make a case for Webber being better.
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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by mcdo »

Button better than Webber isn't up for debate
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pokerman
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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by pokerman »

Rockie wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Rockie wrote: Same Hamilton who kept tangling with Webber? and proceeded to take himself out of championship contention.
No-one was largely flawless that year though so it doesn't make much difference as long as it's not more than his rivals which it wasn't. Plus he had a team mate battle with a better driver than Webber so all in all I think he gets the nod.
A team mate better than Webber by what metric, WDC or what?

C'mon let's get serious.
I think Button showed against Alonso that he was better than Webber.
The joke continues, because he thrashed Hamilton in '11?

Button better than Webber indeed.
If Button thrashed Hamilton then Ricciardo annihilated Vettel.
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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by Rockie »

Until Webber was paired with Vettel he was renowned for qualifying a car above it's potential.

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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by Rockie »

pokerman wrote: If Button thrashed Hamilton then Ricciardo annihilated Vettel.
Hello captain obvious no one has argued against that anyway so I wonder what point you are trying to prove?

I ain't seen anyone argue '14 otherwise about Vettel given the circumstances.

All I have said is he didn't finish behind Alonso like Hamilton did and let's consider in '11 Alonso finished 4th in the standings.

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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by davidheath461 »

KingVoid wrote:I don’t think that Alonso drove better than Vettel did in 2010.

People will remember Vettels mistakes in Turkey and Belgium; but Alonso’s are ignored. Alonso made mistakes in Australia, China, Monaco, Silverstone and Belgium. He could have won the WDC by over 40 points without those mistakes.

Yes, Red Bull was faster than Ferrari, but Alonso’s car was also far more reliable than Vettel’s car. Vettel lost 63 points in Bahrain, Australia and Korea. Alonso gained 16 points in those three races, so Vettel lost a net 79 points relative to Alonso thanks to reliability. That is a huge amount. Alonso’s only car failure came in Malaysia when he was driving in 9th place, and lost only 2 points.

Hamilton, Kubica and Rosberg were the three best drivers of 2010.
China was his only real mistake where he jumped the start.

Australia - he was tipped around by Button. Not Alonso's fault.

Monaco - we are counting FP crashes? Alonso was only unlucky that his chassis broke.

Silverstone - Kubica forced him off the track. The team told him they are speaking to Charlie. Then Kubica retired, Alonso had to serve a drive through after the safety car period. Again, bad luck.

Belgium - He had a damaged car after Barrichello drove into the back of him on lap 1.

Vettel had just 2 DNFs from reliability issues. Hamilton had 2, Alonso had 1.

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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by davidheath461 »

bourbon19 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
jiminwatford wrote:Alonso vs Vettel. Although they have been in the F1 pack along side each other for a long time i don't think there has been a lot of comparitive info

Sebastian was in the top car 2010 - 2013, Fernando wasn't

Put Fernando in a top car and i believe he will match Seb in qualifying and the race

I know there been 13 pages of 'debate' but put Fernando in an equal car and i think it it will be nip and tuck

Looking back at the original post on page 1, these two two could be the immaculate rivalry ala Senna and Prost
It actually would be nothing like the Senna and Prost rivalry as the 2 of them had very little in common, much different strengths to one another and you are sort of forgetting Hamilton for one.
In 2010 and 2012, Alonso and Vettel did have more or less equal cars over the course of the season (taking reliability and bad luck into account). Last race was the absolute decider, with Alonso heavily favored in both. So I think we did have an example of both in cars capable of winning the season at the same time - twice. It is nip and tuck - and I agree other drivers would be right there too (but the thread is Alonso/Seb).
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I guess Vettel had a "more or less equal car" to Hamilton in 2015 and 2016 then ;)

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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by KingVoid »

davidheath461 wrote:Australia - he was tipped around by Button. Not Alonso's fault.
Alonso shut the door on Button. Button was down his inside and he cut him off.
Monaco - we are counting FP crashes? Alonso was only unlucky that his chassis broke.
Yes we are counting FP crashes if it stops the driver from qualifying. Max has been torn apart by the media this week for doing exactly what Alonso did 8 years ago.
Silverstone - Kubica forced him off the track. The team told him they are speaking to Charlie. Then Kubica retired, Alonso had to serve a drive through after the safety car period. Again, bad luck.
Partially bad luck but also partially his own doing. You could argue that Vettel was unlucky in Hungary, because if the safety car never happened he would have won that race easily. Vettel was unaware of the rule and just trying to help Webber get a jump on the restart. Nevertheless I blame Vettel for that drive through, and I blame Alonso for Silverstone.
Belgium - He had a damaged car after Barrichello drove into the back of him on lap 1.
He was driving fine for 40 laps after the accident. When you look at his crash, it doesn’t look like his damaged chassis had anything to do with it. He just got on the wet curb, got wheelspin and crashed.
Vettel had just 2 DNFs from reliability issues. Hamilton had 2, Alonso had 1.
The position from where these reliability problems occur is very relevant. A DNF from 9th is not the same as multiple mechanical failures from the lead.

Alonso was not a top 3 driver in 2010. Hamilton, Kubica and Rosberg were the three best drivers that season. Alonso was on par with Vettel, joint fourth best.

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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by Zoue »

KingVoid wrote:Alonso was not a top 3 driver in 2010. Hamilton, Kubica and Rosberg were the three best drivers that season. Alonso was on par with Vettel, joint fourth best.
Don't think I'd agree with that assessment. Vettel was 5th in the title race halfway through the season and staged a fairly impressive comeback to win his 1st title. I don't agree those were the actions of the 4th best driver and Alonso fared quite similarly

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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by KingVoid »

Zoue wrote:
KingVoid wrote:Alonso was not a top 3 driver in 2010. Hamilton, Kubica and Rosberg were the three best drivers that season. Alonso was on par with Vettel, joint fourth best.
Don't think I'd agree with that assessment. Vettel was 5th in the title race halfway through the season and staged a fairly impressive comeback to win his 1st title. I don't agree those were the actions of the 4th best driver and Alonso fared quite similarly
I never said that Vettel or Alonso drove poorly in 2010, it's just that the three drivers I mentioned above drove better. They made less mistakes and were more consistent.

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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by KingVoid »

Regarding the cross comparison between Vettel and Alonso using Raikkonen, I always thought that one was a bit skewed just because of how shockingly poor Kimi was in the first half of 2014.

From Australia to Hungary, the average gap between Alonso and Raikkonen was 0.694 seconds. That is basically Jolyon Palmer territory. From Belgium to Abu Dhabi, Raikkonen was 0.300 seconds slower than Alonso which is much more acceptable and in the region where I expect him to be.

There is no doubt that Alonso is a better driver than Raikkonen, but I don’t buy for one second that he is 7 tenths faster than Kimi on average. That kind of gap is ludicrous. I find 3 tenths much more believable, that’s the kind of gap he had over Kimi after the summer break once Kimi got used to the Ferrari’s handling.

Anyway:

Alonso’s mean advantage over Massa was 0.287s
Alonso’s mean advantage over Raikkonen was 0.300s (post summer break)
Vettel’s mean advantage over Raikkonen is 0.283s
Vettel’s mean advantage over Webber was 0.273s

We know that Massa = Kimi (roughly) based on their time together at Ferrari. I reckon that Massa = Webber too. I don’t have evidence to prove it, but these are two drivers that are rated roughly in the same ballpark.

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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by Siao7 »

KingVoid wrote:Regarding the cross comparison between Vettel and Alonso using Raikkonen, I always thought that one was a bit skewed just because of how shockingly poor Kimi was in the first half of 2014.

From Australia to Hungary, the average gap between Alonso and Raikkonen was 0.694 seconds. That is basically Jolyon Palmer territory. From Belgium to Abu Dhabi, Raikkonen was 0.300 seconds slower than Alonso which is much more acceptable and in the region where I expect him to be.

There is no doubt that Alonso is a better driver than Raikkonen, but I don’t buy for one second that he is 7 tenths faster than Kimi on average. That kind of gap is ludicrous. I find 3 tenths much more believable, that’s the kind of gap he had over Kimi after the summer break once Kimi got used to the Ferrari’s handling.

Anyway:

Alonso’s mean advantage over Massa was 0.287s
Alonso’s mean advantage over Raikkonen was 0.300s (post summer break)
Vettel’s mean advantage over Raikkonen is 0.283s
Vettel’s mean advantage over Webber was 0.273s

We know that Massa = Kimi (roughly) based on their time together at Ferrari. I reckon that Massa = Webber too. I don’t have evidence to prove it, but these are two drivers that are rated roughly in the same ballpark.
Probably off topic, but I'd place Webber above Massa, albeit not by much. I don't know why, just Webber showed more confidence in the car. It's not something that you can measure, just a feeling. Anyway!

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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by Lotus49 »

KingVoid wrote:Regarding the cross comparison between Vettel and Alonso using Raikkonen, I always thought that one was a bit skewed just because of how shockingly poor Kimi was in the first half of 2014.

From Australia to Hungary, the average gap between Alonso and Raikkonen was 0.694 seconds. That is basically Jolyon Palmer territory. From Belgium to Abu Dhabi, Raikkonen was 0.300 seconds slower than Alonso which is much more acceptable and in the region where I expect him to be.

There is no doubt that Alonso is a better driver than Raikkonen, but I don’t buy for one second that he is 7 tenths faster than Kimi on average. That kind of gap is ludicrous. I find 3 tenths much more believable, that’s the kind of gap he had over Kimi after the summer break once Kimi got used to the Ferrari’s handling.

Anyway:

Alonso’s mean advantage over Massa was 0.287s
Alonso’s mean advantage over Raikkonen was 0.300s (post summer break)
Vettel’s mean advantage over Raikkonen is 0.283s
Vettel’s mean advantage over Webber was 0.273s

We know that Massa = Kimi (roughly) based on their time together at Ferrari. I reckon that Massa = Webber too. I don’t have evidence to prove it, but these are two drivers that are rated roughly in the same ballpark.
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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

KingVoid wrote:Regarding the cross comparison between Vettel and Alonso using Raikkonen, I always thought that one was a bit skewed just because of how shockingly poor Kimi was in the first half of 2014.

From Australia to Hungary, the average gap between Alonso and Raikkonen was 0.694 seconds. That is basically Jolyon Palmer territory. From Belgium to Abu Dhabi, Raikkonen was 0.300 seconds slower than Alonso which is much more acceptable and in the region where I expect him to be.

There is no doubt that Alonso is a better driver than Raikkonen, but I don’t buy for one second that he is 7 tenths faster than Kimi on average. That kind of gap is ludicrous. I find 3 tenths much more believable, that’s the kind of gap he had over Kimi after the summer break once Kimi got used to the Ferrari’s handling.

Anyway:

Alonso’s mean advantage over Massa was 0.287s
Alonso’s mean advantage over Raikkonen was 0.300s (post summer break)
Vettel’s mean advantage over Raikkonen is 0.283s
Vettel’s mean advantage over Webber was 0.273s

We know that Massa = Kimi (roughly) based on their time together at Ferrari. I reckon that Massa = Webber too. I don’t have evidence to prove it, but these are two drivers that are rated roughly in the same ballpark.

If exclude Alonso's biggest advantages over Räikkönen, you must also exclude Vettel's biggest advantages over Räikkönen, otherwise your calculation is void.

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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by KingVoid »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
KingVoid wrote:Regarding the cross comparison between Vettel and Alonso using Raikkonen, I always thought that one was a bit skewed just because of how shockingly poor Kimi was in the first half of 2014.

From Australia to Hungary, the average gap between Alonso and Raikkonen was 0.694 seconds. That is basically Jolyon Palmer territory. From Belgium to Abu Dhabi, Raikkonen was 0.300 seconds slower than Alonso which is much more acceptable and in the region where I expect him to be.

There is no doubt that Alonso is a better driver than Raikkonen, but I don’t buy for one second that he is 7 tenths faster than Kimi on average. That kind of gap is ludicrous. I find 3 tenths much more believable, that’s the kind of gap he had over Kimi after the summer break once Kimi got used to the Ferrari’s handling.

Anyway:

Alonso’s mean advantage over Massa was 0.287s
Alonso’s mean advantage over Raikkonen was 0.300s (post summer break)
Vettel’s mean advantage over Raikkonen is 0.283s
Vettel’s mean advantage over Webber was 0.273s

We know that Massa = Kimi (roughly) based on their time together at Ferrari. I reckon that Massa = Webber too. I don’t have evidence to prove it, but these are two drivers that are rated roughly in the same ballpark.

If exclude Alonso's biggest advantages over Räikkönen, you must also exclude Vettel's biggest advantages over Räikkönen, otherwise your calculation is void.
Raikkonen had no input on the development of the F14T. He was much better in the second half of the season once he got the hang of the car.

Vettel never enjoyed this advantage over Raikkonen, because Vettel joined Ferrari after Kimi did.

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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by Lotus49 »

KingVoid wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
KingVoid wrote:Regarding the cross comparison between Vettel and Alonso using Raikkonen, I always thought that one was a bit skewed just because of how shockingly poor Kimi was in the first half of 2014.

From Australia to Hungary, the average gap between Alonso and Raikkonen was 0.694 seconds. That is basically Jolyon Palmer territory. From Belgium to Abu Dhabi, Raikkonen was 0.300 seconds slower than Alonso which is much more acceptable and in the region where I expect him to be.

There is no doubt that Alonso is a better driver than Raikkonen, but I don’t buy for one second that he is 7 tenths faster than Kimi on average. That kind of gap is ludicrous. I find 3 tenths much more believable, that’s the kind of gap he had over Kimi after the summer break once Kimi got used to the Ferrari’s handling.

Anyway:

Alonso’s mean advantage over Massa was 0.287s
Alonso’s mean advantage over Raikkonen was 0.300s (post summer break)
Vettel’s mean advantage over Raikkonen is 0.283s
Vettel’s mean advantage over Webber was 0.273s

We know that Massa = Kimi (roughly) based on their time together at Ferrari. I reckon that Massa = Webber too. I don’t have evidence to prove it, but these are two drivers that are rated roughly in the same ballpark.

If exclude Alonso's biggest advantages over Räikkönen, you must also exclude Vettel's biggest advantages over Räikkönen, otherwise your calculation is void.
Raikkonen had no input on the development of the F14T. He was much better in the second half of the season once he got the hang of the car.

Vettel never enjoyed this advantage over Raikkonen, because Vettel joined Ferrari after Kimi did.
What was the mean in 2015?
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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by KingVoid »

0.347s I think

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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by pokerman »

KingVoid wrote:0.347s I think
I guess we all have different methodologies I had Alonso's average for Kimi at 0.28s for the season.

Vettel's 2015 average was 0.24s.
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Rockie
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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by Rockie »

pokerman wrote:
KingVoid wrote:0.347s I think
I guess we all have different methodologies I had Alonso's average for Kimi at 0.28s for the season.

Vettel's 2015 average was 0.24s.
Maybe cause he's using mean and not the average.

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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by KingVoid »

Siao7 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:Regarding the cross comparison between Vettel and Alonso using Raikkonen, I always thought that one was a bit skewed just because of how shockingly poor Kimi was in the first half of 2014.

From Australia to Hungary, the average gap between Alonso and Raikkonen was 0.694 seconds. That is basically Jolyon Palmer territory. From Belgium to Abu Dhabi, Raikkonen was 0.300 seconds slower than Alonso which is much more acceptable and in the region where I expect him to be.

There is no doubt that Alonso is a better driver than Raikkonen, but I don’t buy for one second that he is 7 tenths faster than Kimi on average. That kind of gap is ludicrous. I find 3 tenths much more believable, that’s the kind of gap he had over Kimi after the summer break once Kimi got used to the Ferrari’s handling.

Anyway:

Alonso’s mean advantage over Massa was 0.287s
Alonso’s mean advantage over Raikkonen was 0.300s (post summer break)
Vettel’s mean advantage over Raikkonen is 0.283s
Vettel’s mean advantage over Webber was 0.273s

We know that Massa = Kimi (roughly) based on their time together at Ferrari. I reckon that Massa = Webber too. I don’t have evidence to prove it, but these are two drivers that are rated roughly in the same ballpark.
Probably off topic, but I'd place Webber above Massa, albeit not by much. I don't know why, just Webber showed more confidence in the car. It's not something that you can measure, just a feeling. Anyway!
I know the feeling you are talking about. You can always feel how the top drivers have that extra bit of confidence in the car (especially during the race) compared to average drivers. It’s not something you can measure.

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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by davidheath461 »

KingVoid wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
KingVoid wrote:Regarding the cross comparison between Vettel and Alonso using Raikkonen, I always thought that one was a bit skewed just because of how shockingly poor Kimi was in the first half of 2014.

From Australia to Hungary, the average gap between Alonso and Raikkonen was 0.694 seconds. That is basically Jolyon Palmer territory. From Belgium to Abu Dhabi, Raikkonen was 0.300 seconds slower than Alonso which is much more acceptable and in the region where I expect him to be.

There is no doubt that Alonso is a better driver than Raikkonen, but I don’t buy for one second that he is 7 tenths faster than Kimi on average. That kind of gap is ludicrous. I find 3 tenths much more believable, that’s the kind of gap he had over Kimi after the summer break once Kimi got used to the Ferrari’s handling.

Anyway:

Alonso’s mean advantage over Massa was 0.287s
Alonso’s mean advantage over Raikkonen was 0.300s (post summer break)
Vettel’s mean advantage over Raikkonen is 0.283s
Vettel’s mean advantage over Webber was 0.273s

We know that Massa = Kimi (roughly) based on their time together at Ferrari. I reckon that Massa = Webber too. I don’t have evidence to prove it, but these are two drivers that are rated roughly in the same ballpark.

If exclude Alonso's biggest advantages over Räikkönen, you must also exclude Vettel's biggest advantages over Räikkönen, otherwise your calculation is void.
Raikkonen had no input on the development of the F14T. He was much better in the second half of the season once he got the hang of the car.

Vettel never enjoyed this advantage over Raikkonen, because Vettel joined Ferrari after Kimi did.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

You can't just pick and choose what data you want to get the results you want.

Your "analysis" is a complete joke.

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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by davidheath461 »

KingVoid wrote:Alonso shut the door on Button. Button was down his inside and he cut him off.
Erm Alonso had Schumacher on his outside. Where was he supposed to go?
KingVoid wrote: Yes we are counting FP crashes if it stops the driver from qualifying. Max has been torn apart by the media this week for doing exactly what Alonso did 8 years ago.
You really care about what the sensationalist tabloids say?

Rosberg and Perez had much more spectacular accidents in Monaco FP3 in recent years yet they were able to participate in Q. According to you, these accidents wouldn't be included in any analysis?

If you want to count FP mistakes, then you have to count Vettel's too. You also have to take into account Alonso's engine failures in FP.
Partially bad luck but also partially his own doing. You could argue that Vettel was unlucky in Hungary, because if the safety car never happened he would have won that race easily. Vettel was unaware of the rule and just trying to help Webber get a jump on the restart. Nevertheless I blame Vettel for that drive through, and I blame Alonso for Silverstone.
Not sure what Vettel falling asleep behind the safety car has to do with this.

Kubica forced Alonso off the track (they were side by side). Even Kubica himself had no problem with this move. The team told Alonso that they were talking to Charlie, therefore he didn't give the place back to Kubica immediately. Not sure why you think this was an Alonso mistake.
He was driving fine for 40 laps after the accident. When you look at his crash, it doesn’t look like his damaged chassis had anything to do with it. He just got on the wet curb, got wheelspin and crashed.
Wrong. Alonso reported that his car was behaving strangely on the straights and and pulling to the right.
The position from where these reliability problems occur is very relevant. A DNF from 9th is not the same as multiple mechanical failures from the lead.
As a measure of reliability of the car - the position is irrelevant.

His DNFs were from the lead because his car was a rocketship.
Alonso was not a top 3 driver in 2010. Hamilton, Kubica and Rosberg were the three best drivers that season. Alonso was on par with Vettel, joint fourth best.
I guess that's why the team bosses voted him driver of the year?

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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by Zoue »

pokerman wrote:
KingVoid wrote:0.347s I think
I guess we all have different methodologies I had Alonso's average for Kimi at 0.28s for the season.

Vettel's 2015 average was 0.24s.
which means they are pretty much even, I guess

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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by mikeyg123 »

Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
KingVoid wrote:0.347s I think
I guess we all have different methodologies I had Alonso's average for Kimi at 0.28s for the season.

Vettel's 2015 average was 0.24s.
which means they are pretty much even, I guess
I haven't crunched any nubers but Vettel and Alonso being pretty even on max pace is kind of what i would expect.

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Invade
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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by Invade »

Hamilton vs Alonso vs Vettel: the F1 statistics
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... statistics

...Will probably be of interest to some of you.

KingVoid
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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by KingVoid »

Invade wrote:Hamilton vs Alonso vs Vettel: the F1 statistics
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... statistics

...Will probably be of interest to some of you.
Wait... Alonso was faster than Hamilton in 2007?

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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by davidheath461 »

Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
KingVoid wrote:0.347s I think
I guess we all have different methodologies I had Alonso's average for Kimi at 0.28s for the season.

Vettel's 2015 average was 0.24s.
which means they are pretty much even, I guess
and ricciardo is faster than both?

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Invade
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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by Invade »

KingVoid wrote:
Invade wrote:Hamilton vs Alonso vs Vettel: the F1 statistics
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... statistics

...Will probably be of interest to some of you.
Wait... Alonso was faster than Hamilton in 2007?
There's some debate about that in the comments but Mark Hughes responds - IIRC.

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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by Lotus49 »

KingVoid wrote:
Invade wrote:Hamilton vs Alonso vs Vettel: the F1 statistics
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... statistics

...Will probably be of interest to some of you.
Wait... Alonso was faster than Hamilton in 2007?
Fuel corrected and displayed as a percentage anyway, yes.
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by davidheath461 »

Invade wrote:Hamilton vs Alonso vs Vettel: the F1 statistics
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... statistics

...Will probably be of interest to some of you.
But but Alonso always has number 1 status written into his contract so it's useless to compare him with his teammates. :lol: :lol: :lol:

KingVoid
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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by KingVoid »

davidheath461 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
KingVoid wrote:0.347s I think
I guess we all have different methodologies I had Alonso's average for Kimi at 0.28s for the season.

Vettel's 2015 average was 0.24s.
which means they are pretty much even, I guess
and ricciardo is faster than both?
It depends. Do you think that Trulli is faster than Hamilton in qualifying?

davidheath461
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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by davidheath461 »

Did Trulli ever face Hamilton in qualifying in the same car?

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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by Rockie »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
KingVoid wrote:0.347s I think
I guess we all have different methodologies I had Alonso's average for Kimi at 0.28s for the season.

Vettel's 2015 average was 0.24s.
which means they are pretty much even, I guess
I haven't crunched any nubers but Vettel and Alonso being pretty even on max pace is kind of what i would expect.

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Lotus49
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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by Lotus49 »

Average gap according to RaceFans

Alonso over Kimi...0.528 in 2014
Vettel over Kimi....0.463 in 2015
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by pokerman »

Rockie wrote:
pokerman wrote:
KingVoid wrote:0.347s I think
I guess we all have different methodologies I had Alonso's average for Kimi at 0.28s for the season.

Vettel's 2015 average was 0.24s.
Maybe cause he's using mean and not the average.
Which doesn't differentiate between drivers being a lot faster and drivers missing qualifying completely.
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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by pokerman »

Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
KingVoid wrote:0.347s I think
I guess we all have different methodologies I had Alonso's average for Kimi at 0.28s for the season.

Vettel's 2015 average was 0.24s.
which means they are pretty much even, I guess
Yes if you want to highlight individual years, Vettel and Kimi are into their 4th season as teammates.
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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by pokerman »

KingVoid wrote:
Invade wrote:Hamilton vs Alonso vs Vettel: the F1 statistics
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... statistics

...Will probably be of interest to some of you.
Wait... Alonso was faster than Hamilton in 2007?
According to his fuel corrected figures.
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Re: Alonso and Vettel

Post by pokerman »

davidheath461 wrote:
Invade wrote:Hamilton vs Alonso vs Vettel: the F1 statistics
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... statistics

...Will probably be of interest to some of you.
But but Alonso always has number 1 status written into his contract so it's useless to compare him with his teammates. :lol: :lol: :lol:
I guess you missed the part about Alonso having weaker teammates?
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