2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

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Clarky
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Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Clarky »

F1_Ernie wrote:Hamilton thinking wtf about his team again.
Keep screwing up when it comes to strategy's.

iceman_fan90
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Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by iceman_fan90 »

Invade wrote:
iceman_fan90 wrote:Ferrari had this in the bag until they tried to get way too cute with their "strategy". Just awful strategy on every single level. First, not covering Bottas' undercut attempt with Vettel. Then ruining Kimi's race by leaving him out for a disreputable reason which didn't even work and then not pitting Kimi on safety car for a fresh set of softs. Garbage on every single level. They did not deserve to win today.

This race seems like karma for the disrespect that they treated their last WDC with.
Ferrari's treatment of Kimi is pretty egregious. They only give a damn about Vettel - I truly believe that.
I would rather he just retire or race for a lower team like Force India or Renault. He is a former World Champion and should not have to deal with the disrespect of being forced to ruin his race for no other reason than to slow down another driver to help his teammate.

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Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by whitewolfarctic »

Kimi just plays it too safe honesty. He's actually one of the most polite drivers on the track at the moment. He practically waves the other drivers by when they're faster than him. He's always been my favorite but I wish he could be a little more aggressive, like his time at Lotus. Looks like a totally different driver these days.

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Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by whitewolfarctic »

Greenman wrote:.

Should we rename F1 "Formula Safety Car" ?

( Oh, and Verstaffen really needs a nickname. )

.
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Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

The inability of the supposed 'best drivers in the world' to pass without running other cars off the circuit is getting ridiculous. When will this be cracked down on with penalties being handed out?
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Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by lamo »

pokerman wrote:
wonder81 wrote:All things considered was worried Vettal was starting to pull away in the championship. This sets things up nicely now
Indeed, generally speaking poor race for Hamilton but he's lost little
Lost little?

Lewis gained hugely today. He has had 2 unlucky races (SC in Aus, Grid penalty Bahrain) and 1 poor one here. Yet he is 9 points behind in the WDC. At one point during the race he could have been leaving China 35 points down.

Hamilton will be down because he was slow this weekend, but all said and done he is back in the title fight when he could have been out of it today and needing a big comeback. Win the race in Baku and he leads the WDC or at worst is 2 points off of it.
Last edited by lamo on Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Invade »

iceman_fan90 wrote:
Invade wrote:
iceman_fan90 wrote:Ferrari had this in the bag until they tried to get way too cute with their "strategy". Just awful strategy on every single level. First, not covering Bottas' undercut attempt with Vettel. Then ruining Kimi's race by leaving him out for a disreputable reason which didn't even work and then not pitting Kimi on safety car for a fresh set of softs. Garbage on every single level. They did not deserve to win today.

This race seems like karma for the disrespect that they treated their last WDC with.
Ferrari's treatment of Kimi is pretty egregious. They only give a damn about Vettel - I truly believe that.
I would rather he just retire or race for a lower team like Force India or Renault. He is a former World Champion and should not have to deal with the disrespect of being forced to ruin his race for no other reason than to slow down another driver to help his teammate.
It's a shame because so far in 2018, all things considered, he looks plenty handy in qualifying and the race. Ferrari don't allow him to reach his current promise.

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Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Clarky »

Ferrari messed up and the beginning and Mercedes big time with Hamilton.

Congrats Red Bull the perfect strategy.

When is Max going to learn FFS.

lamo

Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by lamo »

IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:Can someone tell me why Bottas moving twice, including in the braking zone, not even mentioned? Is punishment waved off because Ricciardo managed to avoid it? What a farce.
I agree. He made his moves and broke the agreement to not move in the braking zone. Moving in the braking zone can lead to huge crashes. But if there is no contact and you still end up getting passed - you get away with it, which is fair enough.

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Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by sandman1347 »

What a shocking race this was. Just a few thoughts:

Amazing performance by Daniel! That was vintage Ricciardo. He is the ultimate opportunist and has won multiple races by switching to the quicker tire at the end and hunting the leaders down. Awesome to watch and he's doing his stock plenty of good heading into his new contract. This race shows that difference between him and Max. Daniel is a bit more patient, a bit more mature. Max perhaps has the higher ceiling of the two but Daniel brings a certain savvy and guile to the table that Max doesn't have yet.

For Bottas; this was a bit of a lost moment. He and Mercedes played it brilliantly by jumping Vettel with the quick stop and the quick lap by Valteri. He really had this one but, in actuality, the outcome was better this way for both him and the team. Okay, they lost a win but they lost it to Red Bull, not Ferrari. Bottas is now right in the thick of the points standings and both he and Hamilton trimmed Vettel's lead. That's a much better outcome than 1Bottas-2Vettel-3Hamilton for everyone at Mercedes.

For Vettel, this was a race where he got a little too complacent up front. Losing the lead to Bottas was really down to Ferrari getting caught napping and allowing Bottas to undercut him. After that, it was looking like 2nd place was a guarantee until the unfortunately timed safety car. Then Max made his contribution to the race and Seb looks up and finds himself barely in the points. This one will be frustrating but he earned the ability to have a race like this and still be first in the standings. After back to back wins this will be a bit of a wake up call. Any complacency that might have kicked in will be completely gone now.

Hamilton really dodged a bullet this weekend. This was really one of the most lackluster weekends I've seen from him in his whole career. Just never seemed to be able to produce the pace you expect from him. Anyone can have a bad weekend but this year was starting to feel like 2016 all over again; with him digging a massive hole early in the season that he would have to try to climb out of. Instead he catches an enormous break here with Max crashing into Vettel! Absolutely huge! It's early days and the points don't matter much except psychologically but he actually closes the gap to Vettel with this race. That's a big gift after a forgettable weekend. One element that really went against Hamilton was that Mercedes failed to pounce on the opportunity to pit him for fresh tires under the safety car. He might have won the race had they done that because he would have been ahead of Daniel and on the same tire. He'll still need to get his season back on track ASAP though. Qualifying and finishing behind Bottas in back to back races is not a good look.
Last edited by sandman1347 on Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:25 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Clarky »

mikeyg123 wrote:Merc dropped a bollock not bringing Hamilton in when the safety car came out.
Massive bollock

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Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Jezza13 »

funkymonkey wrote:And as far as Max goes, it is becoming a pattern now. He needs a more stern warning from stewards and FIA. Its getting ridiculous with the amount of incidents he is having, most of which are usually his mistake.
Can someone refresh my memory as to what was the catalyst for Kvyat being punted from RB?
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Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Clarky »

pokerman wrote:
wonder81 wrote:All things considered was worried Vettal was starting to pull away in the championship. This sets things up nicely now
Indeed, generally speaking poor race for Hamilton but he's lost little
Agreed about the race just didnt seem to have the pace but overall he gained.

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Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Battle Far »

The Senna/Schumacher "Divine Right To Tarmac" mindset is strong in Verstappen

Both he and Marquez in MotoGp need to sit out a few races to teach them humility

Will the Mclaren naysayers please now shut up, ALO 7th fastest race lap, just 0.5s behind HAM & BOT, 0.1s behind RAI and 0.2s faster than VET with that time set on the Medium tyre, compared to the others on Soft

Alonso finished 7th despite his strategy being ruined by the Red Bull no 2 teams obvious & successfull attempt to fix the result for their parent through a safety car*. Given his pace on the Medium tyre where might he have finished without the SC?




* I may not be entirely serious about this observation
Last edited by Battle Far on Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

Invade wrote:
iceman_fan90 wrote:
Invade wrote:
iceman_fan90 wrote:Ferrari had this in the bag until they tried to get way too cute with their "strategy". Just awful strategy on every single level. First, not covering Bottas' undercut attempt with Vettel. Then ruining Kimi's race by leaving him out for a disreputable reason which didn't even work and then not pitting Kimi on safety car for a fresh set of softs. Garbage on every single level. They did not deserve to win today.

This race seems like karma for the disrespect that they treated their last WDC with.
Ferrari's treatment of Kimi is pretty egregious. They only give a damn about Vettel - I truly believe that.
I would rather he just retire or race for a lower team like Force India or Renault. He is a former World Champion and should not have to deal with the disrespect of being forced to ruin his race for no other reason than to slow down another driver to help his teammate.
It's a shame because so far in 2018, all things considered, he looks plenty handy in qualifying and the race. Ferrari don't allow him to reach his current promise.
He doesn't help himself much TBH.

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Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by bourbon19 »

Asphalt_World wrote:The inability of the supposed 'best drivers in the world' to pass without running other cars off the circuit is getting ridiculous. When will this be cracked down on with penalties being handed out?
This.

lamo

Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by lamo »

funkymonkey wrote:Ferrari got away with potential strategy mistake in last race. THey didnt this time around. If both Ferrari and Merc keep trying to play the try to make it 1 stop safely mood, redbull is going to steal more races from both of them this season.

In an effort to outdo each other to 1 stop race, Mercedes and Ferrari both lost this race to RedBull.

Forget Vettel's misfortune today, that was ******* move by Max and Vettel was already on main straight when the safety car was declared, but they should have brought Kimi in. This is a wake up call for both Mercedes and Ferrari. They cant keep playing this go long, try to make every race 1 stop game anymore. Because if they keep doing that and there is any interruption, they will find themselves in such situation again and again. Its time that both of them try to find the fastest race speed for themselves. If it means making 2 stop every race, then so be it.
Indeed, I wondered myself if Red Bull would have won in Bahrain running a 2 stop as it was definitely quicker.

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Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Invade »

Battle Far wrote:The Senna/Schumacher "Divine Right To Tarmac" mindset is strong in Verstappen

Both he and Marquez in MotoGp need to sit out a few races to teach them humility

Will the Mclaren naysayers please now shut up, ALO 7th fastest race lap, just 0.5s behind HAM & BOT, 0.1s behind RAI and 0.2s faster than VET with that time set on the Medium tyre, compared to the others on Soft

Alonso finished 7th despite his strategy being ruined by the Red Bull no 2 teams obvious & successfull attempt to fix the result for their parent through a safety car*. Given his pace on the Medium tyre where might he have finished without the SC?




* I may not be entirely serious about this observation
Good spot - lol.

lamo

Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by lamo »

mikeyg123 wrote:Actually when you think about it once the safety car came out Kimi should have won the race really. Very poor race from him.
Im not so sure about that. I will run the numbers later, my gut feeling is you needed to be 1.1-1.2 seconds per lap at least to overtake. Kimi's tyre advantage over the other older Medium runners was more like 0.5-0.6 so it wasn't enoiugh. Red Bull drivers had the big enough delta to force the moves.

There is no way he should have won after the SC, he had Max ahead of him on a compound softer and newer tyres. Max should have won.
Last edited by lamo on Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by funkymonkey »

Glasnost wrote:
funkymonkey wrote:And as far as Max goes, it is becoming a pattern now. He needs a more stern warning from stewards and FIA. Its getting ridiculous with the amount of incidents he is having, most of which are usually his mistake.
I'm a pretty Big Dan fan, but It's almost as if Max is trying to pull the same moves as Dan's dive bombs, but the rest of the field doesn't have the same amount of respect for him and give him the space like they do Dan.
How often does Dan send the dive bomb and drivers stay wide.... Max go's for it and no quarter given.

Just an observation.
Sorry but nope.

Vettel had left plenty of room for him. And there was no space there when he went off while battling Hamilton. Issue is not the rest of the drivers, issue is Max. Nobody else. Dan's divebombs are opportunistic, and at he judges them better.
Last edited by funkymonkey on Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

gregs51 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Merc dropped a bollock not bringing Hamilton in when the safety car came out.
Yep, and it was immediately obvious as well. Third strategic mistake in as many races. Mercedes need to start asking questions internally.
They rely too much on computers whilst Red Bull are more racers I would say, there is a thing called commonsense.
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Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Mercedes-Benz »

It turned out to be good race thank to TRH drivers lol. But Ricciardo move on Bottas was lucky. In the end Bottas avoided the accident. Vettel also did well not to hit Alonso who deserved the penalty IMO
Last edited by Mercedes-Benz on Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Syholl »

Interesting that Toto said they made a decision to keep track position rather than pit for fresh tyres. They really need some new strategists in their team, as pitting was such an obvious move to make, especially for Hamilton.

Also, that safety car coming out in the middle of the pack really shows poor judgement by the powers that be. Although it made for an exciting race, races should not be decided this way!!

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Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Zoue »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:Did Lewis just push Max off there?
Nope, not even close to it from the onboards. Verstappen ran out of grip.
Yes, you're right. I just saw a replay. All Max

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Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Option or Prime »

Agree with that, can you imagine how much F1 would have been labelled as "boring" if there had been no safety cars this season!

lamo

Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by lamo »

pokerman wrote:
gregs51 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Merc dropped a bollock not bringing Hamilton in when the safety car came out.
Yep, and it was immediately obvious as well. Third strategic mistake in as many races. Mercedes need to start asking questions internally.
They rely too much on computers whilst Red Bull are more racers I would say, there is a thing called commonsense.
Im not sure how they can mess that up, they have a little thing on there screen that updates every second that tells them what to do if a SC is deployed. Toto said afterwards that they favoured track position over tyres. They did not expect Red Bulls to be able to overtake them. Even if Lewis did pit he still would have been behind Verstappen on the same tyre (so would have been 2nd). Lewis also had no new soft tyres
Last edited by lamo on Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

Syholl wrote:Interesting that Toto said they made a decision to keep track position rather than pit for fresh tyres. They really need some new strategists in their team, as pitting was such an obvious move to make, especially for Hamilton.

Also, that safety car coming out in the middle of the pack really shows poor judgement by the powers that be. Although it made for an exciting race, races should not be decided this way!!
Maybe they go for the option that will mix the race up more, unlike the VSC which unlike Australia would have just maintained the cars positions, conspiracy hat firmly on.
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Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by lamo »

Option or Prime wrote:Agree with that, can you imagine how much F1 would have been labelled as "boring" if there had been no safety cars this season!
Mercedes have lost 2 certain wins to SC timings. The Sky coverage are making a big deal about Mercedes not winning in the first 3 races, but they should have 2 wins now at least.

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Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

lamo wrote:
pokerman wrote:
gregs51 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Merc dropped a bollock not bringing Hamilton in when the safety car came out.
Yep, and it was immediately obvious as well. Third strategic mistake in as many races. Mercedes need to start asking questions internally.
They rely too much on computers whilst Red Bull are more racers I would say, there is a thing called commonsense.
Im not sure how they can mess that up, they have a little thing on there screen that updates every second that tells them what to do if a SC is deployed. Toto said afterwards that they favoured track position over tyres. They did not expect Red Bulls to be able to overtake them. Even if Lewis did pit he still would have been behind Verstappen on the same tyre (so would have been 2nd). Lewis also had no new soft tyres
Whereas Hamilton said during the SC period in a sort of resigned recognition, "are these cars behind me on fresh tyres?"
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Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
Syholl wrote:Interesting that Toto said they made a decision to keep track position rather than pit for fresh tyres. They really need some new strategists in their team, as pitting was such an obvious move to make, especially for Hamilton.

Also, that safety car coming out in the middle of the pack really shows poor judgement by the powers that be. Although it made for an exciting race, races should not be decided this way!!
Maybe they go for the option that will mix the race up more, unlike the VSC which unlike Australia would have just maintained the cars positions, conspiracy hat firmly on.
It actually came out just in time to pick up the race leader.

I don't think safety car calls should be influenced by who will and won't be effected by it. That's a dangerous path.

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Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by UnlikeUday »

Last time Red Bull driver clashed into Vettel's car, he was demoted to Toro Rosso. I don't expect same sanction again!
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Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by lamo »

Syholl wrote:Interesting that Toto said they made a decision to keep track position rather than pit for fresh tyres. They really need some new strategists in their team, as pitting was such an obvious move to make, especially for Hamilton.

Also, that safety car coming out in the middle of the pack really shows poor judgement by the powers that be. Although it made for an exciting race, races should not be decided this way!!
100% agree with that. Deploying a SC literally the moment Vettel and Bottas were unable to pit is a bit fishy. Literally if they deploy it 10 seconds earlier or later then Red Bull don't gain the upper hand.

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Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Option or Prime »

lamo wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:Agree with that, can you imagine how much F1 would have been labelled as "boring" if there had been no safety cars this season!
Mercedes have lost 2 certain wins to SC timings. The Sky coverage are making a big deal about Mercedes not winning in the first 3 races, but they should have 2 wins now at least.
Agree Mercedes have totally goofed, but so have Ferrari the only team that seem to be able to respond tactically is Red Bull!

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Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by F1_Ernie »

lamo wrote:
pokerman wrote:
gregs51 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Merc dropped a bollock not bringing Hamilton in when the safety car came out.
Yep, and it was immediately obvious as well. Third strategic mistake in as many races. Mercedes need to start asking questions internally.
They rely too much on computers whilst Red Bull are more racers I would say, there is a thing called commonsense.
Im not sure how they can mess that up, they have a little thing on there screen that updates every second that tells them what to do if a SC is deployed. Toto said afterwards that they favoured track position over tyres. They did not expect Red Bulls to be able to overtake them. Even if Lewis did pit he still would have been behind Verstappen on the same tyre (so would have been 2nd). Lewis also had no new soft tyres
I would rather have 3 lap old softs and keep your position than old medium tyres fighting 3 drivers behind you with fresh tyres.
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Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by lamo »

Option or Prime wrote:
lamo wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:Agree with that, can you imagine how much F1 would have been labelled as "boring" if there had been no safety cars this season!
Mercedes have lost 2 certain wins to SC timings. The Sky coverage are making a big deal about Mercedes not winning in the first 3 races, but they should have 2 wins now at least.
Agree Mercedes have totally goofed, but so have Ferrari the only team that seem to be able to respond tactically is Red Bull!
I don't think they goofed, Mercedes did everything right in Australia and today. The SC just screwed them. Nothing else they could have done to win those races.

lamo

Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by lamo »

Option or Prime wrote:
lamo wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:Agree with that, can you imagine how much F1 would have been labelled as "boring" if there had been no safety cars this season!
Mercedes have lost 2 certain wins to SC timings. The Sky coverage are making a big deal about Mercedes not winning in the first 3 races, but they should have 2 wins now at least.
Agree Mercedes have totally goofed, but so have Ferrari the only team that seem to be able to respond tactically is Red Bull!
I don't think they goofed, Mercedes did everything right in Australia and today. The SC just screwed them. Nothing else they could have done to win those races.

Edit - actually I forgot the SC delta in Australia they got wrong, but the SC timing still massively screwed them.

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Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Syholl »

Verstappen should have had a bigger penalty than that. Vettel’s race was ruined by that bizarre overtake attempt!!

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Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Option or Prime »

lamo wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
lamo wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:Agree with that, can you imagine how much F1 would have been labelled as "boring" if there had been no safety cars this season!
Mercedes have lost 2 certain wins to SC timings. The Sky coverage are making a big deal about Mercedes not winning in the first 3 races, but they should have 2 wins now at least.
Agree Mercedes have totally goofed, but so have Ferrari the only team that seem to be able to respond tactically is Red Bull!
I don't think they goofed, Mercedes did everything right in Australia and today. The SC just screwed them. Nothing else they could have done to win those races.
Not so sure about that what about Australia as well.

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Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by lucifers »

Greenman wrote:.

Should we rename F1 "Formula Safety Car" ?

( Oh, and Verstaffen really needs a nickname. )

.

Australia - ferrrari b team(Hass) cause vsc - Ferrari win
china - rebull b team(torro rosso) cause safety car - redbull win

in all seriousness what was merc and Ferrari doing with kimi and Hamilton strategy when the safety car came out.

lamo

Re: 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by lamo »

F1_Ernie wrote:
lamo wrote:
pokerman wrote:
gregs51 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Merc dropped a bollock not bringing Hamilton in when the safety car came out.
Yep, and it was immediately obvious as well. Third strategic mistake in as many races. Mercedes need to start asking questions internally.
They rely too much on computers whilst Red Bull are more racers I would say, there is a thing called commonsense.
Im not sure how they can mess that up, they have a little thing on there screen that updates every second that tells them what to do if a SC is deployed. Toto said afterwards that they favoured track position over tyres. They did not expect Red Bulls to be able to overtake them. Even if Lewis did pit he still would have been behind Verstappen on the same tyre (so would have been 2nd). Lewis also had no new soft tyres
I would rather have 3 lap old softs and keep your position than old medium tyres fighting 3 drivers behind you with fresh tyres.
In hindsight yes, but he gained a position by not pitting and on some tracks he would have held it.

Not sure what softs he had either, but the other ones he used in Q2 were 6 laps old.

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