When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renault]

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Exediron
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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by Exediron »

j man wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:I think this is The beginning of Ricciardo’s slide into obscurity. Renault will be mid field at best and he won’t have the opportunity to shine that he does now. It looks to me like he’s running from Max, as I can’t see anything that would suggest Renault are a better bet than Red Bull
I think the biggest danger to Ricciardo is Hulkenberg.
:thumbup:

I wouldn't be so sure that Ricciardo will win that battle. Hulkenberg is very underrated in my opinion.
Win or lose, the comparative people are about to get some juicy data! :]
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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by Mr-E »

On a personal level I don't like this (Like it matters).. I am a Dan Fan, but I really don't like Renault. And I like RBR. Now I hope Sainz comes to RBR and hands Max some humble pie.
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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by Lotus49 »

Exediron wrote:
j man wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:I think this is The beginning of Ricciardo’s slide into obscurity. Renault will be mid field at best and he won’t have the opportunity to shine that he does now. It looks to me like he’s running from Max, as I can’t see anything that would suggest Renault are a better bet than Red Bull
I think the biggest danger to Ricciardo is Hulkenberg.
:thumbup:

I wouldn't be so sure that Ricciardo will win that battle. Hulkenberg is very underrated in my opinion.
Win or lose, the comparative people are about to get some juicy data! :]
What does the Ricciardo-Vettel-Raikkonen-Alonso-Button-Perez-Hulk cross comparison data suggest we'll see in the quali battle between Hulk and Dan?
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by Exediron »

Lotus49 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
j man wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:I think this is The beginning of Ricciardo’s slide into obscurity. Renault will be mid field at best and he won’t have the opportunity to shine that he does now. It looks to me like he’s running from Max, as I can’t see anything that would suggest Renault are a better bet than Red Bull
I think the biggest danger to Ricciardo is Hulkenberg.
:thumbup:

I wouldn't be so sure that Ricciardo will win that battle. Hulkenberg is very underrated in my opinion.
Win or lose, the comparative people are about to get some juicy data! :]
What does the Ricciardo-Vettel-Raikkonen-Alonso-Button-Perez-Hulk cross comparison data suggest we'll see in the quali battle between Hulk and Dan?
Well, since you asked... if I remember the numbers correctly it would go something like this:

Ricciardo > Vettel ~ 1 tenth

Vettel > Raikkonen ~ 2 tenths
Alonso > Raikkonen ~ 3 tenths
Alonso > Vettel ~ 1 tenth
Ricciardo = Alonso

Alonso > Button ~ 2 tenths
Button = Perez
Perez = Hulk

Ricciardo > Hulk ~ 2 tenths
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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by Covalent »

This could actually be Hulkenberg´s last chance for a top drive - if he beats Ricciardo. He recently stated he´s given up on one.

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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by Zoue »

iano wrote:
Zoue wrote:I think this is The beginning of Ricciardo’s slide into obscurity. Renault will be mid field at best and he won’t have the opportunity to shine that he does now. It looks to me like he’s running from Max, as I can’t see anything that would suggest Renault are a better bet than Red Bull
You could be right about the slide to obscurity for Ricciardo. It is even possible it is the start of a slide into obscurity for Red Bull too... but I do think there is a good chance Honda can get it together and avoid that.

Red Bull no longer wanted Ricciardo for anything other than being a wing man for Max, so yes he probably ran from that.

Once the new deal with Max was signed his fate was sealed, as they were never going to match that for Ricciardo, ensuring he would become a clear #2 if he signed a new contract. He could survive as 'equal' only until the new contract was in place confirming him as second driver.

On that basis, Red Bull simply found themselves not wanting Ricciardo anymore. Do you stay where you are not wanted?

There is a slim chance he can shine in the future at Renault. But that slim chance is greater than the chance he could shine at Red Bull, when the team only want to him to shine when Max fails, and when Max does finish in the points, they do not want Ricciardo taking points from Max by finishing ahead.

Regardless of who is the better right now between Max and Ricciardo, Max has the greater potential. On the basis of that potential they committed last year to a contract with Max that ensured Ricciardo would be sidelined. Look at what happened at Azerbaijan.
There’s a lot of supposition here. I don’t think there is any evidence that Dan has been sidelined for anyone. He has equal opportunity at RB and every chance to shine IF he’s good enough. And I don’t see any evidence that RB don’t want him anymore. Quite the contrary, really

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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by Lotus49 »

Exediron wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
j man wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I think the biggest danger to Ricciardo is Hulkenberg.
:thumbup:

I wouldn't be so sure that Ricciardo will win that battle. Hulkenberg is very underrated in my opinion.
Win or lose, the comparative people are about to get some juicy data! :]
What does the Ricciardo-Vettel-Raikkonen-Alonso-Button-Perez-Hulk cross comparison data suggest we'll see in the quali battle between Hulk and Dan?
Well, since you asked... if I remember the numbers correctly it would go something like this:

Ricciardo > Vettel ~ 1 tenth

Vettel > Raikkonen ~ 2 tenths
Alonso > Raikkonen ~ 3 tenths
Alonso > Vettel ~ 1 tenth
Ricciardo = Alonso

Alonso > Button ~ 2 tenths
Button = Perez
Perez = Hulk

Ricciardo > Hulk ~ 2 tenths
Thanks. :thumbup:

That (Dan-Hulk) actually sounds about right to me, maybe 1 and a half, although I think Hulk will get the better of him in the wet so the overall score could be close if there's a few of them.

Will be good to finally see Hulk next to someone widely regarded in that upper bracket. This could finally get Hulk and Perez some credit.
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by pokerman »

Verstappen33 wrote:I believe 20 mil.
Since he resigned his contract, a new salary has been agreed to. The previous contract stated a lesser salary than Ricciardo's.

But come one guys, Kimi! I would love to see that happening. Max and Kimi at Red Bull.
That would only be interesting in comparing the size of Kimi's beating relative to how Vettel beats him.
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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by pokerman »

Zoue wrote:I think this is The beginning of Ricciardo’s slide into obscurity. Renault will be mid field at best and he won’t have the opportunity to shine that he does now. It looks to me like he’s running from Max, as I can’t see anything that would suggest Renault are a better bet than Red Bull
Well it's a good career move to get away from a driver that you fear is faster and will beat you hence lowering your stock, then sometime down the line you may have more chance of getting into a better car if Renault themselves don't step up.
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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:I think this is The beginning of Ricciardo’s slide into obscurity. Renault will be mid field at best and he won’t have the opportunity to shine that he does now. It looks to me like he’s running from Max, as I can’t see anything that would suggest Renault are a better bet than Red Bull
I think the biggest danger to Ricciardo is Hulkenberg.
It's going to be interesting to see the performance differential then we get a better insight into just how fast Verstappen himself is.
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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by pokerman »

Exediron wrote:
j man wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:I think this is The beginning of Ricciardo’s slide into obscurity. Renault will be mid field at best and he won’t have the opportunity to shine that he does now. It looks to me like he’s running from Max, as I can’t see anything that would suggest Renault are a better bet than Red Bull
I think the biggest danger to Ricciardo is Hulkenberg.
:thumbup:

I wouldn't be so sure that Ricciardo will win that battle. Hulkenberg is very underrated in my opinion.
Win or lose, the comparative people are about to get some juicy data! :]
Yeah I've just posted that. :lol:
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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by pokerman »

Exediron wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
j man wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote: I think the biggest danger to Ricciardo is Hulkenberg.
:thumbup:

I wouldn't be so sure that Ricciardo will win that battle. Hulkenberg is very underrated in my opinion.
Win or lose, the comparative people are about to get some juicy data! :]
What does the Ricciardo-Vettel-Raikkonen-Alonso-Button-Perez-Hulk cross comparison data suggest we'll see in the quali battle between Hulk and Dan?
Well, since you asked... if I remember the numbers correctly it would go something like this:

Ricciardo > Vettel ~ 1 tenth

Vettel > Raikkonen ~ 2 tenths
Alonso > Raikkonen ~ 3 tenths
Alonso > Vettel ~ 1 tenth
Ricciardo = Alonso

Alonso > Button ~ 2 tenths
Button = Perez
Perez = Hulk

Ricciardo > Hulk ~ 2 tenths
Yeah that's not too far out, if however it's quite close then that points to 2014 being an outlier.
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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by pokerman »

Zoue wrote:
iano wrote:
Zoue wrote:I think this is The beginning of Ricciardo’s slide into obscurity. Renault will be mid field at best and he won’t have the opportunity to shine that he does now. It looks to me like he’s running from Max, as I can’t see anything that would suggest Renault are a better bet than Red Bull
You could be right about the slide to obscurity for Ricciardo. It is even possible it is the start of a slide into obscurity for Red Bull too... but I do think there is a good chance Honda can get it together and avoid that.

Red Bull no longer wanted Ricciardo for anything other than being a wing man for Max, so yes he probably ran from that.

Once the new deal with Max was signed his fate was sealed, as they were never going to match that for Ricciardo, ensuring he would become a clear #2 if he signed a new contract. He could survive as 'equal' only until the new contract was in place confirming him as second driver.

On that basis, Red Bull simply found themselves not wanting Ricciardo anymore. Do you stay where you are not wanted?

There is a slim chance he can shine in the future at Renault. But that slim chance is greater than the chance he could shine at Red Bull, when the team only want to him to shine when Max fails, and when Max does finish in the points, they do not want Ricciardo taking points from Max by finishing ahead.

Regardless of who is the better right now between Max and Ricciardo, Max has the greater potential. On the basis of that potential they committed last year to a contract with Max that ensured Ricciardo would be sidelined. Look at what happened at Azerbaijan.
There’s a lot of supposition here. I don’t think there is any evidence that Dan has been sidelined for anyone. He has equal opportunity at RB and every chance to shine IF he’s good enough. And I don’t see any evidence that RB don’t want him anymore. Quite the contrary, really
There's more than one person brought up the Baku incident, it would be quite interesting to see if Ricciardo has anything different to say about that after he leaves Red Bull, then there is Austrian qualifying were Ricciardo seemed to be quite paranoid that Red Bull were favouring Verstappen, it was quite strange behaviour from him, maybe that was the first sign he wanted out at Red Bull, he also waited a really long time to see what Hamilton was doing even though it seemed obvious to most that Hamilton would resign for Mercedes. I guess there were a few signs things were not right for one reason or another.
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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by pokerman »

Lotus49 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
j man wrote: :thumbup:

I wouldn't be so sure that Ricciardo will win that battle. Hulkenberg is very underrated in my opinion.
Win or lose, the comparative people are about to get some juicy data! :]
What does the Ricciardo-Vettel-Raikkonen-Alonso-Button-Perez-Hulk cross comparison data suggest we'll see in the quali battle between Hulk and Dan?
Well, since you asked... if I remember the numbers correctly it would go something like this:

Ricciardo > Vettel ~ 1 tenth

Vettel > Raikkonen ~ 2 tenths
Alonso > Raikkonen ~ 3 tenths
Alonso > Vettel ~ 1 tenth
Ricciardo = Alonso

Alonso > Button ~ 2 tenths
Button = Perez
Perez = Hulk

Ricciardo > Hulk ~ 2 tenths
Thanks. :thumbup:

That (Dan-Hulk) actually sounds about right to me, maybe 1 and a half, although I think Hulk will get the better of him in the wet so the overall score could be close if there's a few of them.

Will be good to finally see Hulk next to someone widely regarded in that upper bracket. This could finally get Hulk and Perez some credit.
...and Ocon.
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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by Lotus49 »

pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Exediron wrote: Win or lose, the comparative people are about to get some juicy data! :]
What does the Ricciardo-Vettel-Raikkonen-Alonso-Button-Perez-Hulk cross comparison data suggest we'll see in the quali battle between Hulk and Dan?
Well, since you asked... if I remember the numbers correctly it would go something like this:

Ricciardo > Vettel ~ 1 tenth

Vettel > Raikkonen ~ 2 tenths
Alonso > Raikkonen ~ 3 tenths
Alonso > Vettel ~ 1 tenth
Ricciardo = Alonso

Alonso > Button ~ 2 tenths
Button = Perez
Perez = Hulk

Ricciardo > Hulk ~ 2 tenths
Thanks. :thumbup:

That (Dan-Hulk) actually sounds about right to me, maybe 1 and a half, although I think Hulk will get the better of him in the wet so the overall score could be close if there's a few of them.

Will be good to finally see Hulk next to someone widely regarded in that upper bracket. This could finally get Hulk and Perez some credit.
...and Ocon.
Yeah true,good point.

It's a bit of a blow for him really, with Stroll snr sniffing about his FI seat,Dan in the Renault seat,Bottas getting an extension and Russell and Norris doing so well in F2. You'd think one of him,Perez or Sainz could be in a spot of bother unbelievably if Alonso decides to stay at Macca and Williams and/or FI don't go the Mercedes partner route.

Silly season got interesting for a change.
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by oz_karter »

pokerman wrote:Yeah that's not too far out, if however it's quite close then that points to 2014 being an outlier.
I don’t really get how an entire year can be an outlier. One race or a short patch of races, but not a whole year. It was pretty comprehensive.

Ricciardo should be a step quicker than Hulkenberg, but the Hulk is no slouch.

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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:I think this is The beginning of Ricciardo’s slide into obscurity. Renault will be mid field at best and he won’t have the opportunity to shine that he does now. It looks to me like he’s running from Max, as I can’t see anything that would suggest Renault are a better bet than Red Bull
I think the biggest danger to Ricciardo is Hulkenberg.
Not in any way. Ricciardo will smoke him in qualy and races.
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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

oz_karter wrote:
pokerman wrote:Yeah that's not too far out, if however it's quite close then that points to 2014 being an outlier.
I don’t really get how an entire year can be an outlier. One race or a short patch of races, but not a whole year. It was pretty comprehensive.

Ricciardo should be a step quicker than Hulkenberg, but the Hulk is no slouch.
Hulk is no slouch but he’s not on Ricciardo's level. Hulk had consistently had excellent showings in first halves of some races only to plummet through the field and finish poorly in those races. That’s either poor management of your race or panic.
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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by RaggedMan »

How big is Dan? Hulk has been disadvantaged by his height, and subsequently his weight, thus far but next year is when they go to weight being driver+seat so the jockey sized drivers will have fewer options for ballast placement.
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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by mikeyg123 »

RaggedMan wrote:How big is Dan? Hulk has been disadvantaged by his height, and subsequently his weight, thus far but next year is when they go to weight being driver+seat so the jockey sized drivers will have fewer options for ballast placement.
I think people overate how much of a difference that will make. I would say at most half a tenth between the heaviest and lightest drivers. The major penalty to being heavy is when it pushes the car overweight.

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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by oz_karter »

Interesting report on the PF1 site:

https://www.planetf1.com/news/horner-th ... ng-report/

According to Horner, Red Bull were under the impression Ricciardo was re-signing. They had agreed to a 1-year deal and probably a financial improvement.

The Renault deal is rumoured to be 20M pounds per year. I doubt Red Bull were offering that.

Horner thought Ricciardo was joking when he got the phone call on Thursday. Seems like everyone got a shock.

Red Bull even had a press release and promo ready to go, they were just waiting for the signature.

I wonder what changed Ricciardo's mind? Renault obviously hung a big carrot in the past week.

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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by iano »

Zoue wrote:
iano wrote:
Zoue wrote:I think this is The beginning of Ricciardo’s slide into obscurity. Renault will be mid field at best and he won’t have the opportunity to shine that he does now. It looks to me like he’s running from Max, as I can’t see anything that would suggest Renault are a better bet than Red Bull
You could be right about the slide to obscurity for Ricciardo. It is even possible it is the start of a slide into obscurity for Red Bull too... but I do think there is a good chance Honda can get it together and avoid that.

Red Bull no longer wanted Ricciardo for anything other than being a wing man for Max, so yes he probably ran from that.

Once the new deal with Max was signed his fate was sealed, as they were never going to match that for Ricciardo, ensuring he would become a clear #2 if he signed a new contract. He could survive as 'equal' only until the new contract was in place confirming him as second driver.

On that basis, Red Bull simply found themselves not wanting Ricciardo anymore. Do you stay where you are not wanted?

There is a slim chance he can shine in the future at Renault. But that slim chance is greater than the chance he could shine at Red Bull, when the team only want to him to shine when Max fails, and when Max does finish in the points, they do not want Ricciardo taking points from Max by finishing ahead.

Regardless of who is the better right now between Max and Ricciardo, Max has the greater potential. On the basis of that potential they committed last year to a contract with Max that ensured Ricciardo would be sidelined. Look at what happened at Azerbaijan.
There’s a lot of supposition here. I don’t think there is any evidence that Dan has been sidelined for anyone. He has equal opportunity at RB and every chance to shine IF he’s good enough. And I don’t see any evidence that RB don’t want him anymore. Quite the contrary, really
It depends on the interpretation of the words "don't want him anymore". I did not mean it to imply that they were declaring "Get out and never come back, we don't want you even if you would drive for free!"

However I do feel it is quite clear they do not want him as much as the want Verstappen. My supposition is that Ricciardo was not offered a contract with the same pay as Verstappen that clearly states the drivers will be treated equally.

I have not heard a single person saying that he was offered that, and many saying he was not offered that.

If you don't offer the same pay, to me that equates to you do not want them as much. Therefore Ricciardo is not as wanted as Verstappen. I am not suggesting it is wrong of Red Bull to feel that way. I think I was team boss I would think the same way, ignoring the debates about who is better and just assuming it is very close, when a 20yr old is already as good (or even almost as good) as a 29 yr old.......
If Red Bull prefer Verstappen, but still really really wanted Ricciardo, given they already have Verstappen under contract, they would have matched the figure for Ricciardo. They had to know if they did not match it there was a chance he would leave. Reality is, they could afford that risk.

Now Verstappen is out his slump, and probably has learnt from it and will be more consistent as a result.... how much to Red Bull still want Ricciardo? Not enough for Ricciardo, I suggest.

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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by Jezza13 »

oz_karter wrote:Interesting report on the PF1 site:

https://www.planetf1.com/news/horner-th ... ng-report/

According to Horner, Red Bull were under the impression Ricciardo was re-signing. They had agreed to a 1-year deal and probably a financial improvement.

The Renault deal is rumoured to be 20M pounds per year. I doubt Red Bull were offering that.

Horner thought Ricciardo was joking when he got the phone call on Thursday. Seems like everyone got a shock.

Red Bull even had a press release and promo ready to go, they were just waiting for the signature.

I wonder what changed Ricciardo's mind? Renault obviously hung a big carrot in the past week.
Not sure but I doubt it's the $$$$ that changed his mind.

I'm hoping Renault let him on some grand plan they have & that convinced him to make the jump.
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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by iano »

Jezza13 wrote:
oz_karter wrote:Interesting report on the PF1 site:

https://www.planetf1.com/news/horner-th ... ng-report/

According to Horner, Red Bull were under the impression Ricciardo was re-signing. They had agreed to a 1-year deal and probably a financial improvement.

The Renault deal is rumoured to be 20M pounds per year. I doubt Red Bull were offering that.

Horner thought Ricciardo was joking when he got the phone call on Thursday. Seems like everyone got a shock.

Red Bull even had a press release and promo ready to go, they were just waiting for the signature.

I wonder what changed Ricciardo's mind? Renault obviously hung a big carrot in the past week.
Not sure but I doubt it's the $$$$ that changed his mind.

I'm hoping Renault let him on some grand plan they have & that convinced him to make the jump.
The absolute $$$ ...perhaps not. But the relative $$$ to your teammate tells you what treatment you will get within the team.

Without the Renault deal he may have signed with Red Bull...... but not been happy at all. However it is possible Horner erroneously thought Ricciardo was happy with the deal. He can be hard to read.

Image

Beleriand_K

Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by Beleriand_K »

Jezza13 wrote:Not sure but I doubt it's the $$$$ that changed his mind.
No, I don't think money has got anything to do with it either. An F1 driver doesn't drive to make as much money as possible. At least not until he can see the end of his career approaching.

If the big guns on the grid were given the choice to either be payed 50 mio. USD per year to drive for an equivalent to HTS, Minardi, Super Aguri etc for the rest of their career or to drive for Mercedes or Ferrari for nothing, they would all chose the winning seat.

I believe it was Horners comments about building the team around Verstappen that send Ricciardo into the arms of Renault. What driver with championship ambitions would drive for a team, that openly declares that they are building the team around your competitor?

Geckko65
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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by Geckko65 »

Impressed by this decision. One of the most difficult thing for a driver is to predict which car will be the championship winning car in the next year or two.

Ricci is backing himself as a driver and a team member. Great stuff.

What is interesting is the “he’s running away from a better teammate” narrative. A “better teammate” who, potentially, may have finished behind Ricci in three consecutive seasons.

I believe Renault would have taken Ricci over Verstappen had that been the choice on the table.

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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by Geckko65 »

iano wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
oz_karter wrote:Interesting report on the PF1 site:

https://www.planetf1.com/news/horner-th ... ng-report/

According to Horner, Red Bull were under the impression Ricciardo was re-signing. They had agreed to a 1-year deal and probably a financial improvement.

The Renault deal is rumoured to be 20M pounds per year. I doubt Red Bull were offering that.

Horner thought Ricciardo was joking when he got the phone call on Thursday. Seems like everyone got a shock.

Red Bull even had a press release and promo ready to go, they were just waiting for the signature.

I wonder what changed Ricciardo's mind? Renault obviously hung a big carrot in the past week.
Not sure but I doubt it's the $$$$ that changed his mind.

I'm hoping Renault let him on some grand plan they have & that convinced him to make the jump.
The absolute $$$ ...perhaps not. But the relative $$$ to your teammate tells you what treatment you will get within the team.

Without the Renault deal he may have signed with Red Bull...... but not been happy at all. However it is possible Horner erroneously thought Ricciardo was happy with the deal. He can be hard to read.

Image
I think Red Bull is the least attractive option for a driver. I can’t think of any other team that treats drivers as pure commodities. Without a championship winning car, they don’t offer a lot for quality driver.

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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by ALESI »

I'm impressed that you guys think Ricciardo isn't only interested in the money.... but I'm not so sure it's so easy to dismiss. The guy is in his 8th season in F1 and while he wants to win for sure, and he would jump at the chance of a WDC winning car, at the moment there's no reason to believe one is available. He probably doesn't believe the Honda hype, and sees a chance of a works drive against a team mate he believes he can beat (and thus keep his own reputation alive). Since he has almost no chance of being WDC the next two years maybe it's a smart move to earn $40m instead of $12m... it's not like he's signed for Williams after all.
Shoot999: "And anyone who puts a Y on the end of his name as a nickname should be punched in the face repeatedly."

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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by Rockie »

ALESI wrote:I'm impressed that you guys think Ricciardo isn't only interested in the money.... but I'm not so sure it's so easy to dismiss. The guy is in his 8th season in F1 and while he wants to win for sure, and he would jump at the chance of a WDC winning car, at the moment there's no reason to believe one is available. He probably doesn't believe the Honda hype, and sees a chance of a works drive against a team mate he believes he can beat (and thus keep his own reputation alive). Since he has almost no chance of being WDC the next two years maybe it's a smart move to earn $40m instead of $12m... it's not like he's signed for Williams after all.

Exactly outside of Ferrari or Mercedes till the rules change no one else is winning the title, why not make as much money as possible and when them seats open up try for them.

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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by Jezza13 »

Rockie wrote:
ALESI wrote:I'm impressed that you guys think Ricciardo isn't only interested in the money.... but I'm not so sure it's so easy to dismiss. The guy is in his 8th season in F1 and while he wants to win for sure, and he would jump at the chance of a WDC winning car, at the moment there's no reason to believe one is available. He probably doesn't believe the Honda hype, and sees a chance of a works drive against a team mate he believes he can beat (and thus keep his own reputation alive). Since he has almost no chance of being WDC the next two years maybe it's a smart move to earn $40m instead of $12m... it's not like he's signed for Williams after all.

Exactly outside of Ferrari or Mercedes till the rules change no one else is winning the title, why not make as much money as possible and when them seats open up try for them.
Then why didn't he sign for Macca when they came knocking with a big cheque in their hands?

Also, when the next round of musical chairs opens up, he'll probably be competing with Verstappen, Ocon, Leclerc plus other young drivers for top seats and maybe even still Hamilton & Vettel too after spending 2 yrs as #2 at RB.

In my view if he'd waited he'd have missed his opportunity
Only took 7 yrs, 5 mths & 21 days.

Cooper, Arrows, Brabham, Ligier, Lotus, Tyrrell, Minardi, McLaren, Sauber, Williams,

Remember the garagista's. The heart & soul of F1. They raced to race.

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750k2
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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by 750k2 »

Renault is a works team - Let's see what pulls out in Spain in the first test.
Why does everyone think Renault won't/can't build a good motor or chassie?
Remember What was lewis thinking with going to merc.
Danny might just look like a wizard in a year or 2.
Timing is everything and if Renault can assemble the right minds Dan
absolutely has the race craft to be multi WC.
Put straight wings on and it could be a 6 way fight in a season or 2

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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by Rockie »

Jezza13 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
ALESI wrote:I'm impressed that you guys think Ricciardo isn't only interested in the money.... but I'm not so sure it's so easy to dismiss. The guy is in his 8th season in F1 and while he wants to win for sure, and he would jump at the chance of a WDC winning car, at the moment there's no reason to believe one is available. He probably doesn't believe the Honda hype, and sees a chance of a works drive against a team mate he believes he can beat (and thus keep his own reputation alive). Since he has almost no chance of being WDC the next two years maybe it's a smart move to earn $40m instead of $12m... it's not like he's signed for Williams after all.

Exactly outside of Ferrari or Mercedes till the rules change no one else is winning the title, why not make as much money as possible and when them seats open up try for them.
Then why didn't he sign for Macca when they came knocking with a big cheque in their hands?

Also, when the next round of musical chairs opens up, he'll probably be competing with Verstappen, Ocon, Leclerc plus other young drivers for top seats and maybe even still Hamilton & Vettel too after spending 2 yrs as #2 at RB.

In my view if he'd waited he'd have missed his opportunity
I think you misread my response there, all I'm saying is the move is good for him as he will be pushing Renault forward and making more money whilst waiting for the top seats to open up.

Renault offered him more than Redbull.

Also only a driver who has got no choice will sign for Mclaren now, a team in disarray.

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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by Jezza13 »

It's going to be interesting to see the dynamic between Ricciardo & RB for the 2nd half of the season.
Only took 7 yrs, 5 mths & 21 days.

Cooper, Arrows, Brabham, Ligier, Lotus, Tyrrell, Minardi, McLaren, Sauber, Williams,

Remember the garagista's. The heart & soul of F1. They raced to race.

2017 WCC CPTTC - Jalopy Racing (Herb & Me)

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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by Rockie »

750k2 wrote:Renault is a works team - Let's see what pulls out in Spain in the first test.
Why does everyone think Renault won't/can't build a good motor or chassie?
Remember What was lewis thinking with going to merc.
Danny might just look like a wizard in a year or 2.
Timing is everything and if Renault can assemble the right minds Dan
absolutely has the race craft to be multi WC.
Put straight wings on and it could be a 6 way fight in a season or 2
When Lewis joined Mercedes they were already a race winning team, also had been working on the hybrid engine before others.

Folks just didn't pay attention, a look back and reports pointed to Mercedes dominating this era once they get there tyre issues sorted.

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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by kleefton »

Exediron wrote: Well, since you asked... if I remember the numbers correctly it would go something like this:

Ricciardo > Vettel ~ 1 tenth

Vettel > Raikkonen ~ 2 tenths
Alonso > Raikkonen ~ 3 tenths
Alonso > Vettel ~ 1 tenth
Ricciardo = Alonso

Alonso > Button ~ 2 tenths
Button = Perez
Perez = Hulk

Ricciardo > Hulk ~ 2 tenths
This would make a lot of sense if we didn't have the Hulk >Sainz and Sainz=Verstappen history.

I just have a strong feeling that Hulk is going to be a lot closer to Ricc than many think. He might even be faster, especially in the first few races.
I'm talking qualifying though. In the races I do believe Ricc is better.

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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by moby »

I see it more about Dan getting out of Red Bull than being about getting a drive at Renault.
Red bull, While being very good to it's drivers during their development (well, those they keep anyway) but they are a management handcuff.

Dan knows far more about what goes on at Red Bull, and what is about to go on at Red Bull than we ever hear, and is in the best position to make the decision.

If he liked it there, and though things would go his way, he would stay. I don't think he has any fear of slugging it out with Max, with or without his dad, but no driver can fight the management, and Max is going to be the poster boy there so is going to get the rub of the green.

Dan is as established as it is possible to be without a championship, and Red Bull is not going to win the championship next year,or probably not the year after either.

The money from Renault is good, but he is already OK for pocket change for the foreseeable future, so look down the road.

At worse case, in 2 years he is looking for a drive again, and the possibility Hamilton or Vettel is retiring, best case, he becomes the lead in Renault, and the next gen engine and new rules pot them int contention for the title.

Being a French team, I don't know if it will be less political or not, but he already has the taste of Red Bull in his mouth, so try some wine, he can always spit, and walk away with very little difference in reputation and a pocket full of cash.

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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by Jezza13 »

Rockie wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
ALESI wrote:I'm impressed that you guys think Ricciardo isn't only interested in the money.... but I'm not so sure it's so easy to dismiss. The guy is in his 8th season in F1 and while he wants to win for sure, and he would jump at the chance of a WDC winning car, at the moment there's no reason to believe one is available. He probably doesn't believe the Honda hype, and sees a chance of a works drive against a team mate he believes he can beat (and thus keep his own reputation alive). Since he has almost no chance of being WDC the next two years maybe it's a smart move to earn $40m instead of $12m... it's not like he's signed for Williams after all.

Exactly outside of Ferrari or Mercedes till the rules change no one else is winning the title, why not make as much money as possible and when them seats open up try for them.
Then why didn't he sign for Macca when they came knocking with a big cheque in their hands?

Also, when the next round of musical chairs opens up, he'll probably be competing with Verstappen, Ocon, Leclerc plus other young drivers for top seats and maybe even still Hamilton & Vettel too after spending 2 yrs as #2 at RB.

In my view if he'd waited he'd have missed his opportunity
I think you misread my response there, all I'm saying is the move is good for him as he will be pushing Renault forward and making more money whilst waiting for the top seats to open up.

Renault offered him more than Redbull.

Also only a driver who has got no choice will sign for Mclaren now, a team in disarray.
Agree with that but I think this seat is as top a seat as he's going to get unless Leclerc, Verstappen, Ocon & co fall in a heap.

Chance of #1 drive at a works Renault team. Historically that's turned out to be a pretty good gig.
Only took 7 yrs, 5 mths & 21 days.

Cooper, Arrows, Brabham, Ligier, Lotus, Tyrrell, Minardi, McLaren, Sauber, Williams,

Remember the garagista's. The heart & soul of F1. They raced to race.

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Geckko65
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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by Geckko65 »

ALESI wrote:I'm impressed that you guys think Ricciardo isn't only interested in the money.... but I'm not so sure it's so easy to dismiss. The guy is in his 8th season in F1 and while he wants to win for sure, and he would jump at the chance of a WDC winning car, at the moment there's no reason to believe one is available. He probably doesn't believe the Honda hype, and sees a chance of a works drive against a team mate he believes he can beat (and thus keep his own reputation alive). Since he has almost no chance of being WDC the next two years maybe it's a smart move to earn $40m instead of $12m... it's not like he's signed for Williams after all.
When was Ricci last beaten by a teammate? We are talking over a season, on the only metric that matters; WDC points.

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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by mikeyg123 »

Geckko65 wrote:
ALESI wrote:I'm impressed that you guys think Ricciardo isn't only interested in the money.... but I'm not so sure it's so easy to dismiss. The guy is in his 8th season in F1 and while he wants to win for sure, and he would jump at the chance of a WDC winning car, at the moment there's no reason to believe one is available. He probably doesn't believe the Honda hype, and sees a chance of a works drive against a team mate he believes he can beat (and thus keep his own reputation alive). Since he has almost no chance of being WDC the next two years maybe it's a smart move to earn $40m instead of $12m... it's not like he's signed for Williams after all.
When was Ricci last beaten by a teammate? We are talking over a season, on the only metric that matters; WDC points.
Judging on your metric 2015.

da4an1qu1
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Re: When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renau

Post by da4an1qu1 »

So, in the previous weeks I've been of the mind that RBR don't actually want to keep Ricciardo... they want to go back to Vettel-Webber situation, and like Ferrari and to some extent Mercedes, have a clear number one...and though they rate Ricciardo, they wanted to facilitate an exit. Not matching Verstappen's salary, making statements that Max is the driver to pin their future success on...

So, though there would be many greater factors that swayed Ricciardo to Renault, I think there is quite clearly a revenge element. A 'well, you will reap what you have sown'... because the debates in the last few hours over Gasly and Sainz Jr as replacements have exposed what appears to be a misjudgement by RBR.

People are saying that RBR will go for Gasly over Sainz Jr, and therefore bring down the combined age/experience of their drivers right down (Sainz is only a year older, but has more F1 miles under his belt). At exactly the time they will need a driver with vast experience for their first season with Honda. Sure Gasly will have had one years experience with Honda, I still think Ricciardo would have provided more valuable feedback for RBR and Honda to develop the car. And I think Ricciardo knows that, and is in a way punishing RBR for not adequately valuing his importance there.

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