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Exediron wrote:

pokerman wrote:

BMWSauber84 wrote:

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Maybe, Ferrari should really reconsidering their driver policy.

Räikkönen keeps avoiding to win a race, even despite being in the best or co-best car for one-a-half seasons.

And how many potential wins/podiums has Vettel thrown away by driving mistakes in the last 20 or so races? Six?!? That is way too much for an unchallenged No. 1 in a top team!

Ferrari letting Vettel go would be frankly lunacy. He'd be off to build another team around him and be a thorn in Ferraris side again.

What team would that be?

Does Vettel have the money himself to build a team around him?

Renault would be the obvious one.

If Renault are so obvious why doesn't Alonso go there?

pokerman wrote: If Renault are so obvious why doesn't Alonso go there?

Maybe Renault don't want him, as they have shown no interest.

pokerman wrote:

BMWSauber84 wrote:

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Maybe, Ferrari should really reconsidering their driver policy.

Räikkönen keeps avoiding to win a race, even despite being in the best or co-best car for one-a-half seasons.

And how many potential wins/podiums has Vettel thrown away by driving mistakes in the last 20 or so races? Six?!? That is way too much for an unchallenged No. 1 in a top team!

Ferrari letting Vettel go would be frankly lunacy. He'd be off to build another team around him and be a thorn in Ferraris side again.

What team would that be?

Does Vettel have the money himself to build a team around him?

I'm talking moving to another team and winning there. You don't let a top driver go unless you are 100 percent convinced you have a better replacement.

Vettel would likely spend a couple of seasons in a stop gap midfield runner like Renault then slot into Hamiltons Merc upon his retirement. Or go back to Red Bull.

BMWSauber84 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

BMWSauber84 wrote:

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Maybe, Ferrari should really reconsidering their driver policy.

Räikkönen keeps avoiding to win a race, even despite being in the best or co-best car for one-a-half seasons.

And how many potential wins/podiums has Vettel thrown away by driving mistakes in the last 20 or so races? Six?!? That is way too much for an unchallenged No. 1 in a top team!

Ferrari letting Vettel go would be frankly lunacy. He'd be off to build another team around him and be a thorn in Ferraris side again.

What team would that be?

Does Vettel have the money himself to build a team around him?

I'm talking moving to another team and winning there. You don't let a top driver go unless you are 100 percent convinced you have a better replacement.

Vettel would likely spend a couple of seasons in a stop gap midfield runner like Renault then slot into Hamiltons Merc upon his retirement. Or go back to Red Bull.

Well, get Ricciardo in, there you have your better replacement.

But I was originally referring to put a driver next to Vettel who is more of a challenge and can score when Vettel makes his mistakes. Räikkönen has proven again and again and again that he cannot do this. Time to try someone knew.

Since Hamilton and Verstappen were not available this time (afaik) and Alonso may not be wanted, my choice hierarchy would have been
Vettel
+
1. Ricciardo
2. Leclerc
3. Bottas
etc. pp.

Rockie wrote:

pokerman wrote: If Renault are so obvious why doesn't Alonso go there?

Maybe Renault don't want him, as they have shown no interest.

They said they were not ready to win so not ready for a driver of his standing, they also said this of Hamilton so why would Vettel be different?

BMWSauber84 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

BMWSauber84 wrote:

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Maybe, Ferrari should really reconsidering their driver policy.

Räikkönen keeps avoiding to win a race, even despite being in the best or co-best car for one-a-half seasons.

And how many potential wins/podiums has Vettel thrown away by driving mistakes in the last 20 or so races? Six?!? That is way too much for an unchallenged No. 1 in a top team!

Ferrari letting Vettel go would be frankly lunacy. He'd be off to build another team around him and be a thorn in Ferraris side again.

What team would that be?

Does Vettel have the money himself to build a team around him?

I'm talking moving to another team and winning there. You don't let a top driver go unless you are 100 percent convinced you have a better replacement.

Vettel would likely spend a couple of seasons in a stop gap midfield runner like Renault then slot into Hamiltons Merc upon his retirement. Or go back to Red Bull.

Ferrari could have replaced Vettel with Ricciardo if Vettel left, they might even chew off their right arm and sign Alonso?

pokerman wrote:

BMWSauber84 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

BMWSauber84 wrote:

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Maybe, Ferrari should really reconsidering their driver policy.

Räikkönen keeps avoiding to win a race, even despite being in the best or co-best car for one-a-half seasons.

And how many potential wins/podiums has Vettel thrown away by driving mistakes in the last 20 or so races? Six?!? That is way too much for an unchallenged No. 1 in a top team!

Ferrari letting Vettel go would be frankly lunacy. He'd be off to build another team around him and be a thorn in Ferraris side again.

What team would that be?

Does Vettel have the money himself to build a team around him?

I'm talking moving to another team and winning there. You don't let a top driver go unless you are 100 percent convinced you have a better replacement.

Vettel would likely spend a couple of seasons in a stop gap midfield runner like Renault then slot into Hamiltons Merc upon his retirement. Or go back to Red Bull.

Ferrari could have replaced Vettel with Ricciardo if Vettel left, they might even chew off their right arm and sign Alonso?

Ferrari would have no trouble getting a replacement. But Seb and Ferrari are committed to one another. I think it would take another 2014 or two for Seb to ever look outside Ferrari

Ferrari picked their man, they won't change now. Sounds like the new boss is one for wanting to keep a steady ship so I think Kimi'll get the gig and obviously stick with Seb.

pokerman wrote:

Exediron wrote:

pokerman wrote:Does Vettel have the money himself to build a team around him?

Renault would be the obvious one.

If Renault are so obvious why doesn't Alonso go there?

Because he hasn't been fired? I'm not implying Vettel would go to Renault over Ferrari by choice, it's just the obvious next team if he has to leave Ferrari for some reason and is looking to build another team up. He's quite a bit younger than Alonso, as well.

Exediron wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Exediron wrote:

pokerman wrote:Does Vettel have the money himself to build a team around him?

Renault would be the obvious one.

If Renault are so obvious why doesn't Alonso go there?

Because he hasn't been fired? I'm not implying Vettel would go to Renault over Ferrari by choice, it's just the obvious next team if he has to leave Ferrari for some reason and is looking to build another team up. He's quite a bit younger than Alonso, as well.

I honestly don't see why Ferrari would fear Vettel going to Renault, it's going to be years before Renault are going to competitive, in the meantime how much say would a Max Verstappen fancy driving for Ferrari in 2021?

Like I said in the short term there are replacements for Vettel, Vettel is very good but he's not a Schumacher or a Senna.

I have a feeling that Marchionne’s death will mean that Kimi stays at Ferrari for another season.

Arrivabene is good friends with Raikkonen, while Marchionne wanted Leclerc in the seat for next year.

KingVoid wrote:I have a feeling that Marchionne’s death will mean that Kimi stays at Ferrari for another season.

Arrivabene is good friends with Raikkonen, while Marchionne wanted Leclerc in the seat for next year.

As a sign of respect, shouldn't they get Leclerc in? Maybe Sauber is going to get a good financial push & they need someone of Raikkonen's experience to keep the development rate high.

KingVoid wrote:I have a feeling that Marchionne’s death will mean that Kimi stays at Ferrari for another season.

Arrivabene is good friends with Raikkonen, while Marchionne wanted Leclerc in the seat for next year.

Honestly I've been working off the I'll believe it when I see it principle with the Leclerc to Ferrari thing. The kids an amazing talent it's clear to see and I'd love to see him get the drive but the rumours about it being a done deal started after his 6/7th GP. That's a massive shift in recent Ferrari driver policy.

I think Ferrari would want more experience than that personally. There's a reason Mercedes went for Bottas and not Ocon last year for instance, he was a safer pair of hands at that moment in time and the top teams are going for the WCC, they need some assurance that their driver is going to be able to bring home the points.

Black_Flag_11 wrote:

KingVoid wrote:I have a feeling that Marchionne’s death will mean that Kimi stays at Ferrari for another season.

Arrivabene is good friends with Raikkonen, while Marchionne wanted Leclerc in the seat for next year.

Honestly I've been working off the I'll believe it when I see it principle with the Leclerc to Ferrari thing. The kids an amazing talent it's clear to see and I'd love to see him get the drive but the rumours about it being a done deal started after his 6/7th GP. That's a massive shift in recent Ferrari driver policy.

I think Ferrari would want more experience than that personally. There's a reason Mercedes went for Bottas and not Ocon last year for instance, he was a safer pair of hands at that moment in time and the top teams are going for the WCC, they need some assurance that their driver is going to be able to bring home the points.

BIB: We also can't rule out the possibility that Ferrari themselves started the rumours as a method to motivate Kimi (or as he was driving as well as he has for a few years now, keep him motivated).

There is no pressure for Ferrari to get Leclerc for next year. They might as well give him another year in Sauber. Merc are set for next year and Red Bull are likely to have Ricciardo again, so it's not like any other top teams are trying to get him for next year either.

froze wrote:There is no pressure for Ferrari to get Leclerc for next year. They might as well give him another year in Sauber. Merc are set for next year and Red Bull are likely to have Ricciardo again, so it's not like any other top teams are trying to get him for next year either.

The only thing I can see changing that tbf is if Kimi has decided to retire. In that instance they may think it's not worth getting a Perez, Magnussen etc. in and just get their main junior in the car now.

KingVoid wrote:I have a feeling that Marchionne’s death will mean that Kimi stays at Ferrari for another season.

Arrivabene is good friends with Raikkonen, while Marchionne wanted Leclerc in the seat for next year.

I think you are right. And I think it would be a shame. Even years of underperforming save your drive for the best and most prestigious team in F1 - so much about competitiveness.

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:

KingVoid wrote:I have a feeling that Marchionne’s death will mean that Kimi stays at Ferrari for another season.

Arrivabene is good friends with Raikkonen, while Marchionne wanted Leclerc in the seat for next year.

I think you are right. And I think it would be a shame. Even years of underperforming save your drive for the best and most prestigious team in F1 - so much about competitiveness.

It just shows how much they are dependent on a no.2 driver to succeed.

UnlikeUday wrote:

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:

KingVoid wrote:I have a feeling that Marchionne’s death will mean that Kimi stays at Ferrari for another season.

Arrivabene is good friends with Raikkonen, while Marchionne wanted Leclerc in the seat for next year.

I think you are right. And I think it would be a shame. Even years of underperforming save your drive for the best and most prestigious team in F1 - so much about competitiveness.

It just shows how much they are dependent on a no.2 driver to succeed.

How do you mean this? Not at all or what?

Interesting interview with Cyril Abiteboul on Sky after FP1. Didn't sound great for Sainz, normally when pressed on their drivers for next year the TP's are pretty vague and complimentary of their current drivers but Cyril was very clear that they had options for next year that were attractive and that Ocon was one of them. He also said Renault had a good driver line up for where they are now but that they need to think about where they want to be.

Sounds like their not happy with Hulk/Sainz as a line up for if they get further up the grid.

Black_Flag_11 wrote:Interesting interview with Cyril Abiteboul on Sky after FP1. Didn't sound great for Sainz, normally when pressed on their drivers for next year the TP's are pretty vague and complimentary of their current drivers but Cyril was very clear that they had options for next year that were attractive and that Ocon was one of them. He also said Renault had a good driver line up for where they are now but that they need to think about where they want to be.

Sounds like their not happy with Hulk/Sainz as a line up for if they get further up the grid.

Toto Wolff has said he won't block Ocon if Renault were to sign him:
https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/2118 ... ault-move/

Looks more and more than Sainz is toasted, his only hope may be if Alonso convince McLaren to sign him.

I think it's McLaren or nothing for him, indeed.

Robot wrote:Looks more and more than Sainz is toasted, his only hope may be if Alonso convince McLaren to sign him.

Assuming he doesn't have any other team to go to, does Sainz find McLaren worth driving for? I think Toro Rosso are much better but it would be a downgrade from Renault.

I feel the reason his future at Renault has been cut short is because f the Red Bull-Renault divorce. Sainz is doing pretty good & if he's still getting sacked from Renault, the divorce has to be the most primary reason for this.

Ocon was a Renault development driver & he's French. Ocon is a good prospect for Renault no doubt. Ocon has all good things going for him just like how Checo was considered hot property in 2012 but sadly he drove for McLaren. Had he not, who knows if he had gotten a chance by Ferrari.

Llotyhy wrote:I think it's McLaren or nothing for him, indeed.

I think Sainz will have a number of options.

mikeyg123 wrote:

Llotyhy wrote:I think it's McLaren or nothing for him, indeed.

I think Sainz will have a number of options.

Like? Which teams?

UnlikeUday wrote:

Robot wrote:Looks more and more than Sainz is toasted, his only hope may be if Alonso convince McLaren to sign him.

I think Toro Rosso are much better but it would be a downgrade from Renault.

How is Toro Rosso much better than McLaren?

They may be better right now - although not by much, if they are - but looking long term, Toro Rosso is a dead end. They will never be a front-running team, and the path to winning at Red Bull passes through a driver Sainz has already been partnered with, didn't like, and beat him.

McLaren isn't winning now, but some day they might be. They still have money and resources, and they're nobody's B team. If Sainz wants to win a championship long term, McLaren is a far better choice than Toro Rosso.

Black_Flag_11 wrote:Interesting interview with Cyril Abiteboul on Sky after FP1. Didn't sound great for Sainz, normally when pressed on their drivers for next year the TP's are pretty vague and complimentary of their current drivers but Cyril was very clear that they had options for next year that were attractive and that Ocon was one of them. He also said Renault had a good driver line up for where they are now but that they need to think about where they want to be.

Sounds like their not happy with Hulk/Sainz as a line up for if they get further up the grid.

Well the Hulk is basically a top line midfield driver and he's beating Sainz, if they ever become a top team then they need a top line driver to lead the team.

UnlikeUday wrote:

Robot wrote:Looks more and more than Sainz is toasted, his only hope may be if Alonso convince McLaren to sign him.

Assuming he doesn't have any other team to go to, does Sainz find McLaren worth driving for? I think Toro Rosso are much better but it would be a downgrade from Renault.

I feel the reason his future at Renault has been cut short is because f the Red Bull-Renault divorce. Sainz is doing pretty good & if he's still getting sacked from Renault, the divorce has to be the most primary reason for this.

Ocon was a Renault development driver & he's French. Ocon is a good prospect for Renault no doubt. Ocon has all good things going for him just like how Checo was considered hot property in 2012 but sadly he drove for McLaren. Had he not, who knows if he had gotten a chance by Ferrari.

Apart from both Ocon and Renault being French there is another dynamic to this, Ocon has been getting the better of Perez this year, Perez who beat the Hulk, Hulk who is presently beating Sainz.

pokerman wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:

Robot wrote:Looks more and more than Sainz is toasted, his only hope may be if Alonso convince McLaren to sign him.

Assuming he doesn't have any other team to go to, does Sainz find McLaren worth driving for? I think Toro Rosso are much better but it would be a downgrade from Renault.

I feel the reason his future at Renault has been cut short is because f the Red Bull-Renault divorce. Sainz is doing pretty good & if he's still getting sacked from Renault, the divorce has to be the most primary reason for this.

Ocon was a Renault development driver & he's French. Ocon is a good prospect for Renault no doubt. Ocon has all good things going for him just like how Checo was considered hot property in 2012 but sadly he drove for McLaren. Had he not, who knows if he had gotten a chance by Ferrari.

Apart from both Ocon and Renault being French there is another dynamic to this, Ocon has been getting the better of Perez this year, Perez who beat the Hulk, Hulk who is presently beating Sainz.

Exactly. If Renault do want Ocon it's probably simply due to Ocon being a better driver than they already have

With Ocon possibly coming free with the FI fiasco it’ll be easier for Renault to pick him up if they want to.

If that’s the case and Haas decides to drop Grosjean (I’m not convinced they will) I’d rather see Sainz take that seat than Perez. Between the way Perez races his team mates and the way Ericsson races everyone it would be intra-Team chaos every weekend.

Edit: Obviously I posted this prior to finishing my coffee and wrote Ericsson instead of Magnussen.

RaggedMan wrote:With Ocon possibly coming free with the FI fiasco it’ll be easier for Renault to pick him up if they want to.

If that’s the case and Haas decides to drop Grosjean (I’m not convinced they will) I’d rather see Sainz take that seat than Perez. Between the way Perez races his team mates and the way Ericsson races everyone it would be intra-Team chaos every weekend.

Checo never had any altercations with Hulk. This year there's a better understanding between Checo & Ocon. Sainz is also a good driver no doubt in that but he has time on his side + McLaren have showed interest in him whereas Haas have shown interest in Checo.

UnlikeUday wrote:

RaggedMan wrote:With Ocon possibly coming free with the FI fiasco it’ll be easier for Renault to pick him up if they want to.

If that’s the case and Haas decides to drop Grosjean (I’m not convinced they will) I’d rather see Sainz take that seat than Perez. Between the way Perez races his team mates and the way Ericsson races everyone it would be intra-Team chaos every weekend.

Checo never had any altercations with Hulk. This year there's a better understanding between Checo & Ocon. Sainz is also a good driver no doubt in that but he has time on his side + McLaren have showed interest in him whereas Haas have shown interest in Checo.

I think that’s mainly due to a combination of Perez feeling he had Hulk beat and Hulk being a very clean driver. IMO Perez races his team mate harder when he feels he has something to prove like with Button at Mclaren and last year with Ocon and I feel like it would be the same when he’s the new guy at the team.

With rumours sprouting that Ricciardo will join Renault for 2019, this comes as a surprise. Renault is bound to improve whereas Red Bull with Honda engine is a little unknown:

https://www.racefans.net/2018/08/03/dan ... 19-season/

This means:

Renault - Ricciardo / Hulkenberg
Red Bull - Sainz / Verstappen

This surely leaves Ocon out in the cold as he was poised to join Renault. Also weren't Sainz & Verstappen not on good terms. Guess they'll have to break the ice & start a new bond together.

UnlikeUday wrote:With rumours sprouting that Ricciardo will join Renault for 2019, this comes as a surprise. Renault is bound to improve whereas Red Bull with Honda engine is a little unknown:

https://www.racefans.net/2018/08/03/dan ... 19-season/

This means:

Renault - Ricciardo / Hulkenberg
Red Bull - Sainz / Verstappen

This surely leaves Ocon out in the cold as he was poised to join Renault. Also weren't Sainz & Verstappen not on good terms. Guess they'll have to break the ice & start a new bond together.

A lot of talk a month or so ago about Gasly being the one to go to Red Bull if Ricciardo goes. That would leave Sainz to hope for Mclaren or Williams. Ocon still has a contract in place with FI don't forget.

Good move by Dan I think, with a rules change coming up a Renault works team is pretty good place to be. Also a good move for Renault, puts one of the elite current drivers in their car.

mikeyg123 wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:With rumours sprouting that Ricciardo will join Renault for 2019, this comes as a surprise. Renault is bound to improve whereas Red Bull with Honda engine is a little unknown:

https://www.racefans.net/2018/08/03/dan ... 19-season/

This means:

Renault - Ricciardo / Hulkenberg
Red Bull - Sainz / Verstappen

This surely leaves Ocon out in the cold as he was poised to join Renault. Also weren't Sainz & Verstappen not on good terms. Guess they'll have to break the ice & start a new bond together.

A lot of talk a month or so ago about Gasly being the one to go to Red Bull if Ricciardo goes. That would leave Sainz to hope for Mclaren or Williams. Ocon still has a contract in place with FI don't forget.

Yeah, Gasly will get the nod for Red Bull. Sainz to Williams is not going to happen, so he'll have to be hoping for McLaren, like a lot of other drivers. Ocon will probably be fine. Mercedes will make sure he'll have a seat for next season.

mikeyg123 wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:With rumours sprouting that Ricciardo will join Renault for 2019, this comes as a surprise. Renault is bound to improve whereas Red Bull with Honda engine is a little unknown:

https://www.racefans.net/2018/08/03/dan ... 19-season/

This means:

Renault - Ricciardo / Hulkenberg
Red Bull - Sainz / Verstappen

This surely leaves Ocon out in the cold as he was poised to join Renault. Also weren't Sainz & Verstappen not on good terms. Guess they'll have to break the ice & start a new bond together.

A lot of talk a month or so ago about Gasly being the one to go to Red Bull if Ricciardo goes. That would leave Sainz to hope for Mclaren or Williams. Ocon still has a contract in place with FI don't forget.

Yeah but Force India is an unknown now. There were rumours Perez may go to Haas. Now it looks Ocon will be stuck till something good comes his way.

Red Bull have just confirmed he's leaving!

Now I can't help but wonder if the Ocon/Renault stuff was to throw everyone off the Ricciardo situation, or a way to pressure Ricciardo into making his decision sooner rather than later?

Yes, confirmed on twitter and their website.