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pokerman wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:I want Ricciardo to go just because it will start a bit of a chain reaction with drivers switching seats. Everything has become too static in the driver market. I wouldn't be surprised to see even Grosjean retained at Haas.

Yes Haas have already said that they are going to retain Grosjean.

last i saw, they said they would not be discussing 2019 drivers until after the summer break

pc27b wrote:

pokerman wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:I want Ricciardo to go just because it will start a bit of a chain reaction with drivers switching seats. Everything has become too static in the driver market. I wouldn't be surprised to see even Grosjean retained at Haas.

Yes Haas have already said that they are going to retain Grosjean.

last i saw, they said they would not be discussing 2019 drivers until after the summer break

This came from Gunther Steiner as a way of repaying Grosjean for his loyalty to the team with him being there at the beginning.

Ferrari - bring in Leclerc to replace Räikkönen for 2019. It is due, really.

The only reason I can see they wouldn't announce Leclerc as a Ferrari driver this coming week is due to the quick turnaround to Austria (and then Silverstone the following weekend). Or perhaps if he crashes into Kimi on the opening lap today! Otherwise I think it now is just a matter of when, not if.

If indeed Kimi has chosen to retire I absolutely think they should go for Leclerc.

Jenson's Understeer wrote:The only reason I can see they wouldn't announce Leclerc as a Ferrari driver this coming week is due to the quick turnaround to Austria (and then Silverstone the following weekend). Or perhaps if he crashes into Kimi on the opening lap today! Otherwise I think it now is just a matter of when, not if.

They will probably drag it out and officially announce at Monza, being their home track and everything

Jenson's Understeer wrote:The only reason I can see they wouldn't announce Leclerc as a Ferrari driver this coming week is due to the quick turnaround to Austria (and then Silverstone the following weekend). Or perhaps if he crashes into Kimi on the opening lap today! Otherwise I think it now is just a matter of when, not if.

Don't Ferrari usually make driver announcements somewhere around the Monza GP?

mds wrote:

Jenson's Understeer wrote:The only reason I can see they wouldn't announce Leclerc as a Ferrari driver this coming week is due to the quick turnaround to Austria (and then Silverstone the following weekend). Or perhaps if he crashes into Kimi on the opening lap today! Otherwise I think it now is just a matter of when, not if.

Don't Ferrari usually make driver announcements somewhere around the Monza GP?

As far as Raikkonen has been concerned, In 2015 and 2017, the announcement that he was being retained was made prior to Spa (so the first race after the summer break) but in 2016 it was made on July 8th, a couple of days before the British GP. Vettel's contract extension was announced a day before the Belgium race last year. So based on previous events it would seem an announcement in the week leading up to Spa is more likely, but they have made an earlier announcement in the last three years.

Saying all of that, I suppose there is also an argument that the best decision would be to wait until after the season to confirm it all. Not sure Kimi's performances are going to get any better if he's told he's being replaced at the end of the season (although if he knows it is coming, why not just get it all out in the open?)

With Grosjean on zero points to his team-mate's 27, it's surprising there's not more talk of Leclerc going to Haas in 2019. Ferrari is a bold bet, but a Ferrari customer team would be a step up from Sauber without risking an unknown quantity in a top seat.

Toby. wrote:With Grosjean on zero points to his team-mate's 27, it's surprising there's not more talk of Leclerc going to Haas in 2019. Ferrari is a bold bet, but a Ferrari customer team would be a step up from Sauber without risking an unknown quantity in a top seat.

Why would Ferrari do that? Alfa Romeo Sauber is owned by them basically, Haas is just a customer. They would only do that with riders that they want to park somewhere and not completely lose, like RB did with Sainz. Leclerc will go to Ferrari.

Jenson's Understeer wrote:

mds wrote:

Jenson's Understeer wrote:The only reason I can see they wouldn't announce Leclerc as a Ferrari driver this coming week is due to the quick turnaround to Austria (and then Silverstone the following weekend). Or perhaps if he crashes into Kimi on the opening lap today! Otherwise I think it now is just a matter of when, not if.

Don't Ferrari usually make driver announcements somewhere around the Monza GP?

As far as Raikkonen has been concerned, In 2015 and 2017, the announcement that he was being retained was made prior to Spa (so the first race after the summer break) but in 2016 it was made on July 8th, a couple of days before the British GP. Vettel's contract extension was announced a day before the Belgium race last year. So based on previous events it would seem an announcement in the week leading up to Spa is more likely, but they have made an earlier announcement in the last three years.

Sorry, I actually should have said "driver change announcements". Think Schumacher leaving was announced around Monza? And both Raikkonen as well as Vettel coming into Ferrari as well?

Llotyhy wrote:

Toby. wrote:With Grosjean on zero points to his team-mate's 27, it's surprising there's not more talk of Leclerc going to Haas in 2019. Ferrari is a bold bet, but a Ferrari customer team would be a step up from Sauber without risking an unknown quantity in a top seat.

Why would Ferrari do that? Alfa Romeo Sauber is owned by them basically, Haas is just a customer. They would only do that with riders that they want to park somewhere and not completely lose, like RB did with Sainz. Leclerc will go to Ferrari.

They might do it if they want to keep Raikkonen for another year, or sign Ricciardo.

Sure Sauber is owned by them, but Haas has a better opportunity to show what Leclerc could do if given a car that can achieve podiums. It would give them a chance to see how he handles himself against a better team-mate, and against better opposition, than what he would generally face in a Sauber.

I wouldn't pretend to understand the minds inside Ferrari. Hell, I'd have dropped Raikkonen four years ago and brought in somebody better.

Toby. wrote: Sure Sauber is owned by them, but Haas has a better opportunity to show what Leclerc could do if given a car that can achieve podiums. It would give them a chance to see how he handles himself against a better team-mate, and against better opposition, than what he would generally face in a Sauber.

But they have no control whatsoever on Haas. They've been unable in the past to put Giovinazzi there, they don't control Haas at all. Haas choose their own drivers and they want them to have some experience.

Ferrari and Sauber are closer than ever, given the Alfa Romeo link, and Ferrari can follow their drivers much more closely when at Sauber instead of Haas. So I don't think Leclerc will go to another team where they have less control over him.

It's like RBR purposely putting their young drivers at other midfield teams just because they're faster than the STR. Sure, they did let Sainz go to Renault on loan, but it's not their preferred way of handling drivers. Sainz basically forced their hand because he would have walked if they didn't let him.
Leclerc is not in the same situation as Sainz, he won't moan if he has to be at Sauber for one more year, so the need to get him at Haas is not as acute.

While Haas is a better bet for having a car to compete regularly in the midfield right now they’re not looking for a driver who’s only there for a year or two being groomed for Ferrari. They want to hire their own driver that they can keep.

There’s also the point that next year Sauber could be close to the performance of Haas anyway. They’ve shown in the past that they develop a good car when they have good factory backing when BMW was with them. Not the same I know but still better funding and support than in the past.

mds wrote:

Jenson's Understeer wrote:

mds wrote:

Jenson's Understeer wrote:The only reason I can see they wouldn't announce Leclerc as a Ferrari driver this coming week is due to the quick turnaround to Austria (and then Silverstone the following weekend). Or perhaps if he crashes into Kimi on the opening lap today! Otherwise I think it now is just a matter of when, not if.

Don't Ferrari usually make driver announcements somewhere around the Monza GP?

As far as Raikkonen has been concerned, In 2015 and 2017, the announcement that he was being retained was made prior to Spa (so the first race after the summer break) but in 2016 it was made on July 8th, a couple of days before the British GP. Vettel's contract extension was announced a day before the Belgium race last year. So based on previous events it would seem an announcement in the week leading up to Spa is more likely, but they have made an earlier announcement in the last three years.

Sorry, I actually should have said "driver change announcements". Think Schumacher leaving was announced around Monza? And both Raikkonen as well as Vettel coming into Ferrari as well?

I don't think those are relevant because both were coming in from different teams and so when the announcement was made was somewhat dictated by factors outside of Ferrari's control. Leclerc, on the other hand, is a Ferrari-contracted driver already so it's completely up to them if/when they make that announcement. That was why I pointed towards the contract extensions because like Leclerc, they're in-house Ferrari decisions.

This is new news to me! Incase Ferrari sign Leclerc & Alonso decides to leave McLaren / F1, it is assumed that McLaren would be interested in signing Raikkonen. He would become the no.1 driver there for sure.
http://sport.bt.com/f1/mclaren-consider ... 4280495584

UnlikeUday wrote:This is new news to me! Incase Ferrari sign Leclerc & Alonso decides to leave McLaren / F1, it is assumed that McLaren would be interested in signing Raikkonen. He would become the no.1 driver there for sure.
http://sport.bt.com/f1/mclaren-consider ... 4280495584

Based on what? I don't see anything "for sure" about that at all.

UnlikeUday wrote:This is new news to me! Incase Ferrari sign Leclerc & Alonso decides to leave McLaren / F1, it is assumed that McLaren would be interested in signing Raikkonen. He would become the no.1 driver there for sure.
http://sport.bt.com/f1/mclaren-consider ... 4280495584

I feel sorry for Vandoorne is this article is true. He has a dog of a car and will now be the fall guy because he can't keep up with Alonso, who himself fairly comprehensively whipped Kimi when they partnered up?

sandman1347 wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:This is new news to me! Incase Ferrari sign Leclerc & Alonso decides to leave McLaren / F1, it is assumed that McLaren would be interested in signing Raikkonen. He would become the no.1 driver there for sure.
http://sport.bt.com/f1/mclaren-consider ... 4280495584

Based on what? I don't see anything "for sure" about that at all.

Considering his age & experience, I on't believe he would given only an equal status with Vandoorne or Norris. I was anyway being sarcastic as he's unofficially no.2 at Ferrari.

Jenson's Understeer wrote:The only reason I can see they wouldn't announce Leclerc as a Ferrari driver this coming week is due to the quick turnaround to Austria (and then Silverstone the following weekend). Or perhaps if he crashes into Kimi on the opening lap today! Otherwise I think it now is just a matter of when, not if.

I would have thought that would be something they would like to announce at Monza?

Toby. wrote:With Grosjean on zero points to his team-mate's 27, it's surprising there's not more talk of Leclerc going to Haas in 2019. Ferrari is a bold bet, but a Ferrari customer team would be a step up from Sauber without risking an unknown quantity in a top seat.

Ferrari have no say in the Haas drivers especially after they got fobbed off with Gutierrez, I'm hearing that both Grosjean and KMag will be retained.

Sauber are being strengthened by Ferrari possibly as a forward look to the budget cap proposed for 2021 so rather than laying off staff at Ferrari they can reassign them, so in that respect Leclerc would stay at Sauber rather than go to Haas.

UnlikeUday wrote:This is new news to me! Incase Ferrari sign Leclerc & Alonso decides to leave McLaren / F1, it is assumed that McLaren would be interested in signing Raikkonen. He would become the no.1 driver there for sure.
http://sport.bt.com/f1/mclaren-consider ... 4280495584

Shut that door!

Clearly for marketing reasons they need an established big name driver in the team and Kimi is a world champion after all, all this talk spells no future at McLaren for Vandoorne then.

Zoue wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:This is new news to me! Incase Ferrari sign Leclerc & Alonso decides to leave McLaren / F1, it is assumed that McLaren would be interested in signing Raikkonen. He would become the no.1 driver there for sure.
http://sport.bt.com/f1/mclaren-consider ... 4280495584

I feel sorry for Vandoorne is this article is true. He has a dog of a car and will now be the fall guy because he can't keep up with Alonso, who himself fairly comprehensively whipped Kimi when they partnered up?

Indeed performance wise there is no reason to believe that Kimi would be quicker than Vandoorne, McLaren clearly need a name in the car to please their owners/sponsors.

The Kimi to Mclaren was put about on another site this morning as 'Wouldn't it be funny if Kimi went to Mclaren' etc.
Soon after, it started 'doing the rounds'

Would either Mclaren or Kimi benefit from it?

moby wrote:The Kimi to Mclaren was put about on another site this morning as 'Wouldn't it be funny if Kimi went to Mclaren' etc.
Soon after, it started 'doing the rounds'

Would either Mclaren or Kimi benefit from it?

I've seen a couple of reports recently where Kimi was praised for his technical feedback at Ferrari and I know he received praise for the same while at McLaren, so even though I'm very sceptical of the news it does make some sense from McLaren's POV. They need some decent development input, that's for sure. From a speed viewpoint, in terms of making the most of the car's potential, I think it's clear Kimi doesn't have that ability any more and McLaren would need their other driver to step up to the plate.

From Kimi's viewpoint, it makes less sense IMO. He's consistently stated for years that he's only interested in driving where he has the opportunity to win races, which McLaren sadly doesn't look like giving him. Ironically, if they did then they wouldn't need Kimi any more...

So I'm very doubtful, but it does make sense from one perspective

Let's be honest here, Alonso is the only thing that is keeping McLaren relevant these days. If you replaced Alonso with a rookie like Norris and keep the same results, they are officially a midfield team. Zak Brown is more interested in making McLaren a brand than he is in making McLaren competitive again. That's the only logical explanation I can find for them singing Raikkonen. They need a WDC and popular driver to remain relevant.

KingVoid wrote:Let's be honest here, Alonso is the only thing that is keeping McLaren relevant these days. If you replaced Alonso with a rookie like Norris and keep the same results, they are officially a midfield team. Zak Brown is more interested in making McLaren a brand than he is in making McLaren competitive again. That's the only logical explanation I can find for them singing Raikkonen. They need a WDC and popular driver to remain relevant.

I'd add that, unlike Williams, I can see Mclaren deciding that they don't want to compete in F1 anymore. Losing in F1 for $250 million a year probably makes a lot less sense than winning in Indy for 1/10th the price. Over the last decade they have really stepped up their game in the production car market and I think that might become their core focus in the near future (sports cars and such).

I actually think that once any vestige of hope for a return to the front is finally stamped out (probably around 2021), we will see Mclaren move on from F1. I know that's hard to imagine. I struggle to imagine it myself as McLaren have been in F1 my whole life but I think their time is almost up. Unless of course they either manage to pull a rabbit out of a hat or Liberty Media really succeed at controlling costs. the point is that I don't see them being content as a midfield team long-term.

So Motorsport.com is reporting Ricciardo is close to signing an extension with Red Bull, that Mercedes will retain Bottas and Hamilton, Sainz will remain with Renault (possibly signing permanently) and the only change might be Leclerc replacing Raikkonen.

Pretty dull silly season, then!

Jenson's Understeer wrote:So Motorsport.com is reporting Ricciardo is close to signing an extension with Red Bull, that Mercedes will retain Bottas and Hamilton, Sainz will remain with Renault (possibly signing permanently) and the only change might be Leclerc replacing Raikkonen.

Pretty dull silly season, then!

Would have expected all of this to be honest. Just Leclerc-Raikkonen I have no clue, Ferrari have surprised me in the past.

Jenson's Understeer wrote:So Motorsport.com is reporting Ricciardo is close to signing an extension with Red Bull, that Mercedes will retain Bottas and Hamilton, Sainz will remain with Renault (possibly signing permanently) and the only change might be Leclerc replacing Raikkonen.

Pretty dull silly season, then!

That also means Perez and Ocon will almost certainly stay at FI.

mds wrote:

Jenson's Understeer wrote:So Motorsport.com is reporting Ricciardo is close to signing an extension with Red Bull, that Mercedes will retain Bottas and Hamilton, Sainz will remain with Renault (possibly signing permanently) and the only change might be Leclerc replacing Raikkonen.

Pretty dull silly season, then!

Would have expected all of this to be honest. Just Leclerc-Raikkonen I have no clue, Ferrari have surprised me in the past.

yeah, same. I've never seen any advantage to Ricciardo leaving Red Bull and the rest is no surprise, either.

I also have no idea how the Leclerc-Raikkonen thing will pan out. I don't see much reason not to, tbh, but it wouldn't really surprise me either way

Jenson's Understeer wrote:So Motorsport.com is reporting Ricciardo is close to signing an extension with Red Bull, that Mercedes will retain Bottas and Hamilton, Sainz will remain with Renault (possibly signing permanently) and the only change might be Leclerc replacing Raikkonen.

Pretty dull silly season, then!

You don't find the possibility of Leclerc going to Ferrari exciting?

pokerman wrote:

Jenson's Understeer wrote:So Motorsport.com is reporting Ricciardo is close to signing an extension with Red Bull, that Mercedes will retain Bottas and Hamilton, Sainz will remain with Renault (possibly signing permanently) and the only change might be Leclerc replacing Raikkonen.

Pretty dull silly season, then!

You don't find the possibility of Leclerc going to Ferrari exciting?

Not as exciting as a Dan rematch for me personally but it could've been worse.

Rumours in the paddock Lewis asked that Bottas be retained as part of his contract extension. Ted dismisses it on the grounds Mercedes were going to do it anyway.

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/ ... sip-column (In the video with Ted)

pokerman wrote:

Jenson's Understeer wrote:So Motorsport.com is reporting Ricciardo is close to signing an extension with Red Bull, that Mercedes will retain Bottas and Hamilton, Sainz will remain with Renault (possibly signing permanently) and the only change might be Leclerc replacing Raikkonen.

Pretty dull silly season, then!

You don't find the possibility of Leclerc going to Ferrari exciting?

What really is ironical that Leclerc no doubt would be thrilled but as the season / time went by, he ofcourse would get upto speed but would he be allowed o compete with Vettel? Out of all the top teams, Ferrari is the most tenacious when it comes to favouring their top / no. 1 driver!

I see 0% of McLaren keeping both their current drivers. Also, I really wouldn't be surprised by changes at Toro Rosso. It's not over yet.

I've been trying to think of ways this silly season could still actually be interesting. Most of them seem to revolve around Alonso and Sainz. For example, if Alonso decides to leave McLaren but doesn't want to finish his F1 career just yet, maybe he takes Sainz' seat at Renault and Sainz ends up back at Toro Rosso? If Alonso stays with McLaren, that probably leaves one of Vandoorne or Norris available, so do Red Bull try and sign whichever it is and place them with Toro Rosso?

UnlikeUday wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Jenson's Understeer wrote:So Motorsport.com is reporting Ricciardo is close to signing an extension with Red Bull, that Mercedes will retain Bottas and Hamilton, Sainz will remain with Renault (possibly signing permanently) and the only change might be Leclerc replacing Raikkonen.

Pretty dull silly season, then!

You don't find the possibility of Leclerc going to Ferrari exciting?

What really is ironical that Leclerc no doubt would be thrilled but as the season / time went by, he ofcourse would get upto speed but would he be allowed o compete with Vettel? Out of all the top teams, Ferrari is the most tenacious when it comes to favouring their top / no. 1 driver!

I think this isn't really borne out by the facts, tbh. When Ferrari partnered Kimi and Massa they competed on equal terms. When Alonso came onboard it was quickly apparent that he was much better than Massa, so Ferrari focused on him. A similar thing happened at McLaren with Hamilton and Kovaleinen and it's only natural for teams to throw their efforts behind the driver who is delivering.

Same when Alonso partnered Kimi - Alonso was much better - and now with Vettel and Kimi we see the same pattern. The fact that Vettel is favoured - and I think there's little doubt he is - has more to do with him being far superior to Kimi than it has to do with him getting special treatment. Whether the same thing would happen with Leclerc depends entirely on whether Leclerc rises to the challenge and matches, or beats, Vettel. If he does, then Ferrari will no doubt focus on him

Jenson's Understeer wrote:I've been trying to think of ways this silly season could still actually be interesting. Most of them seem to revolve around Alonso and Sainz. For example, if Alonso decides to leave McLaren but doesn't want to finish his F1 career just yet, maybe he takes Sainz' seat at Renault and Sainz ends up back at Toro Rosso? If Alonso stays with McLaren, that probably leaves one of Vandoorne or Norris available, so do Red Bull try and sign whichever it is and place them with Toro Rosso?

Yes, I can see this happening. Vandoorne will end up at TR alongside Gasly.

Jenson's Understeer wrote:For example, if Alonso decides to leave McLaren but doesn't want to finish his F1 career just yet, maybe he takes Sainz' seat at Renault and Sainz ends up back at Toro Rosso?

Both moves are highly unlikely imo. Renault have gone on record to say that they cannot yet give Alonso a car to compete for titles and they don't want a frustrated Alonso. Sainz has already stated he doesn't want to drive for STR anymore.

If Alonso stays with McLaren, that probably leaves one of Vandoorne or Norris available, so do Red Bull try and sign whichever it is and place them with Toro Rosso?

Would suspect Red Bull to try that, they would at least try to go after Norris, but a third option would be for McLaren to try and get Norris in another team.

Honestly, if Mclaren are really serious about returning to the top step of the podium at some point, their top brass need to finally face reality. They need to acknowledge where they are and start making the appropriate decisions to change their position with a long-term mentality and focus.

For starters, they and not Fernando, should initiate a split with the 2-time WDC. Are they going to find a better driver to replace him? Of course not. Any driver that's anywhere near his league is already on a much better team than Mclaren. That doesn't matter though. What matters is that the charade stop and that people start to face reality. Instead of this never-ending story about when will Alonso have a car worthy of his talents, they need to move towards simply focusing on improving as a team and as a package. Paying him what they pay him is just folly when the car is too slow for him to make much of a difference. It's a waste of money. Again, nothing to do with his driving (which has been top-notch). It's just that it only makes sense to pay top dollar for an elite driver when you have the car to actually contend for something.

They should also part ways with Eric and Zack ASAP. Not sure how much of a dumpster fire needs to occur for someone to face a consequence but this organization has basically sat on its hands while their standing in F1 has evaporated. The team needs a MAJOR shakeup. They need new leadership and a new direction. THIS IS A FAILED ERA.