planetf1.com

pokerman wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

sandman1347 wrote:We seem to be in a period of rapid turnover in F1. An outgoing generation and a glut of new talent. It's unfortunate that there are currently so few seats. There's bound to be some drivers left on the sidelines.

Grosjean for me should be on borrowed time. At this stage, Haas should be looking to improve their driver lineup. I actually think neither of their drivers is worth keeping. They could easily improve with two youngsters IMO. Every point they've earned this year is all car with the exception of that great run at the end of the German GP from Grosjean and Magnussen's 5 in Australia after passing Max on the opening lap. Most of the time you're just happy to see them not crash out...

I wouldn't be a fan of either driver either, Grosjean is inconsistent, when Grosjean is on it KMag looks plain slow, I think that's because at his very best Grosjean can be very fast.

Grosjean has come forward and said that he hasn't been offered a new contract yet which would suggest that Haas themselves are not fully convinced of him, reports from Singapore said that Haas were disappointed with both drivers.

However who would you put in the Haas, I can't see many options bear in mind that Haas are not keen on inexperienced drivers or drivers affiliated to other teams.

Perez would be the obvious upgrade.

Surely he's nailed on for Force Stroll?

We don't know if Haas ever tried to get him.

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

sandman1347 wrote:We seem to be in a period of rapid turnover in F1. An outgoing generation and a glut of new talent. It's unfortunate that there are currently so few seats. There's bound to be some drivers left on the sidelines.

Grosjean for me should be on borrowed time. At this stage, Haas should be looking to improve their driver lineup. I actually think neither of their drivers is worth keeping. They could easily improve with two youngsters IMO. Every point they've earned this year is all car with the exception of that great run at the end of the German GP from Grosjean and Magnussen's 5 in Australia after passing Max on the opening lap. Most of the time you're just happy to see them not crash out...

I wouldn't be a fan of either driver either, Grosjean is inconsistent, when Grosjean is on it KMag looks plain slow, I think that's because at his very best Grosjean can be very fast.

Grosjean has come forward and said that he hasn't been offered a new contract yet which would suggest that Haas themselves are not fully convinced of him, reports from Singapore said that Haas were disappointed with both drivers.

However who would you put in the Haas, I can't see many options bear in mind that Haas are not keen on inexperienced drivers or drivers affiliated to other teams.

Perez would be the obvious upgrade.

Surely he's nailed on for Force Stroll?

We don't know if Haas ever tried to get him.

Exactly so why should we even consider him?

We're not really but he would've been an option if Haas wanted to upgrade their drivers. The point is they could've upgraded but if they didn't chase Perez they chose not to. Same with Ocon really. Haas aren't going to be competing at the front so I don't see the harm in taking Ocon for a year.

mikeyg123 wrote:We're not really but he would've been an option if Haas wanted to upgrade their drivers. The point is they could've upgraded but if they didn't chase Perez they chose not to. Same with Ocon really. Haas aren't going to be competing at the front so I don't see the harm in taking Ocon for a year.

Which circles back to their close ties with Ferrari and Ocon being a Mercedes driver.

pokerman wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:We're not really but he would've been an option if Haas wanted to upgrade their drivers. The point is they could've upgraded but if they didn't chase Perez they chose not to. Same with Ocon really. Haas aren't going to be competing at the front so I don't see the harm in taking Ocon for a year.

Which circles back to their close ties with Ferrari and Ocon being a Mercedes driver.

But they say they can hire who they want and haven't run a Ferrari driver in years.

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:We're not really but he would've been an option if Haas wanted to upgrade their drivers. The point is they could've upgraded but if they didn't chase Perez they chose not to. Same with Ocon really. Haas aren't going to be competing at the front so I don't see the harm in taking Ocon for a year.

Which circles back to their close ties with Ferrari and Ocon being a Mercedes driver.

But they say they can hire who they want and haven't run a Ferrari driver in years.

They also said that they wouldn't run a Mercedes driver.

pokerman wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:We're not really but he would've been an option if Haas wanted to upgrade their drivers. The point is they could've upgraded but if they didn't chase Perez they chose not to. Same with Ocon really. Haas aren't going to be competing at the front so I don't see the harm in taking Ocon for a year.

Which circles back to their close ties with Ferrari and Ocon being a Mercedes driver.

But they say they can hire who they want and haven't run a Ferrari driver in years.

They also said that they wouldn't run a Mercedes driver.

But not because of any relationship to Ferrari.

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:We're not really but he would've been an option if Haas wanted to upgrade their drivers. The point is they could've upgraded but if they didn't chase Perez they chose not to. Same with Ocon really. Haas aren't going to be competing at the front so I don't see the harm in taking Ocon for a year.

Which circles back to their close ties with Ferrari and Ocon being a Mercedes driver.

But they say they can hire who they want and haven't run a Ferrari driver in years.

They also said that they wouldn't run a Mercedes driver.

But not because of any relationship to Ferrari.

What would they gain if Ocon off to Merc in 2020 after an year with HAAS

robins13 wrote:
What would they gain if Ocon off to Merc in 2020 after an year with HAAS

More points and a higher position in the WCC earning them more money.

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:We're not really but he would've been an option if Haas wanted to upgrade their drivers. The point is they could've upgraded but if they didn't chase Perez they chose not to. Same with Ocon really. Haas aren't going to be competing at the front so I don't see the harm in taking Ocon for a year.

Which circles back to their close ties with Ferrari and Ocon being a Mercedes driver.

But they say they can hire who they want and haven't run a Ferrari driver in years.

They also said that they wouldn't run a Mercedes driver.

But not because of any relationship to Ferrari.

With a mention that Ferrari would probably not be happy.

pokerman wrote:

Fountoukos13 wrote:

sandman1347 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

sandman1347 wrote:We seem to be in a period of rapid turnover in F1. An outgoing generation and a glut of new talent. It's unfortunate that there are currently so few seats. There's bound to be some drivers left on the sidelines.

Grosjean for me should be on borrowed time. At this stage, Haas should be looking to improve their driver lineup. I actually think neither of their drivers is worth keeping. They could easily improve with two youngsters IMO. Every point they've earned this year is all car with the exception of that great run at the end of the German GP from Grosjean and Magnussen's 5 in Australia after passing Max on the opening lap. Most of the time you're just happy to see them not crash out...

I wouldn't be a fan of either driver either, Grosjean is inconsistent, when Grosjean is on it KMag looks plain slow, I think that's because at his very best Grosjean can be very fast.

Grosjean has come forward and said that he hasn't been offered a new contract yet which would suggest that Haas themselves are not fully convinced of him, reports from Singapore said that Haas were disappointed with both drivers.

However who would you put in the Haas, I can't see many options bear in mind that Haas are not keen on inexperienced drivers or drivers affiliated to other teams.

I think that Haas insisting on experience was maybe something that made sense when they were a new team. Currently though, they have the fourth best car and have maintained that level of performance all year through the development race. Force India have closed in but that's about it. IMO the most important thing about drivers is their level of performance; not experience. I think Haas will fully understand that by now.

I don't get the sense that they are anywhere near as beholden to Ferrari as some people seem to think. They are just a customer team and nothing more. Ferrari has no special hold over them so I wouldn't count out the likes of Ocon going there with an arrangement with Mercedes whereby they can swap him for Bottas should Merc make the call up. I don't think they would go for the rookie George Russell though. They will want an established commodity. Honestly, I think they should be open to him though purely because of talent. If they can gain 2-3 tenths through signing better drivers, they need to be open to that.

I was just thinking about it yesterday, when i heard the news about Giovinazzi's signing. Right now i think that Magnussen is safe because he is consistent and there aren't many options out there that would be an upgrade, plus i don't think they would want to change both drivers. Vandoorne might get in the mix for Grosjean seat. They won't go for a rookie, they don't want Ocon on a Mercedes contract and Perez is probably not available.

Vandoorne is rumoured to be going to Mercedes










in FE.

Not that they can't have both but... surely Ocon makes the most sense there? Send him to FE for the season, alongside becoming Mercedes reserve driver. Maybe even have him do some races out in Japan, or perhaps some of Indy's road courses, just to keep him busy and keep him racing as much as possible. Then bring him back into F1, either at Mercedes or work out a deal somewhere else, for 2020.

Jenson's Understeer wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Fountoukos13 wrote:

sandman1347 wrote:

pokerman wrote: I wouldn't be a fan of either driver either, Grosjean is inconsistent, when Grosjean is on it KMag looks plain slow, I think that's because at his very best Grosjean can be very fast.

Grosjean has come forward and said that he hasn't been offered a new contract yet which would suggest that Haas themselves are not fully convinced of him, reports from Singapore said that Haas were disappointed with both drivers.

However who would you put in the Haas, I can't see many options bear in mind that Haas are not keen on inexperienced drivers or drivers affiliated to other teams.

I think that Haas insisting on experience was maybe something that made sense when they were a new team. Currently though, they have the fourth best car and have maintained that level of performance all year through the development race. Force India have closed in but that's about it. IMO the most important thing about drivers is their level of performance; not experience. I think Haas will fully understand that by now.

I don't get the sense that they are anywhere near as beholden to Ferrari as some people seem to think. They are just a customer team and nothing more. Ferrari has no special hold over them so I wouldn't count out the likes of Ocon going there with an arrangement with Mercedes whereby they can swap him for Bottas should Merc make the call up. I don't think they would go for the rookie George Russell though. They will want an established commodity. Honestly, I think they should be open to him though purely because of talent. If they can gain 2-3 tenths through signing better drivers, they need to be open to that.

I was just thinking about it yesterday, when i heard the news about Giovinazzi's signing. Right now i think that Magnussen is safe because he is consistent and there aren't many options out there that would be an upgrade, plus i don't think they would want to change both drivers. Vandoorne might get in the mix for Grosjean seat. They won't go for a rookie, they don't want Ocon on a Mercedes contract and Perez is probably not available.

Vandoorne is rumoured to be going to Mercedes










in FE.

Not that they can't have both but... surely Ocon makes the most sense there? Send him to FE for the season, alongside becoming Mercedes reserve driver. Maybe even have him do some races out in Japan, or perhaps some of Indy's road courses, just to keep him busy and keep him racing as much as possible. Then bring him back into F1, either at Mercedes or work out a deal somewhere else, for 2020.

He could go to indycar and do the 12 road course races for Carpenter in his car, since he races only in ovals.

Russell & Ocon are on a consideration as per Steiner but he wants their situation with Mercedes to be solved before Steiner could take more interest in either of them. Haas otherwise now should be announcing their line-up in Japan.
https://www.planetf1.com/news/haas-woul ... r-russell/

Haas will keep Grosjean & Magnussen for 2019:

UnlikeUday wrote:Haas will keep Grosjean & Magnussen for 2019:

Hi mate, nothing is showing, can you send a link?

Siao7 wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:Haas will keep Grosjean & Magnussen for 2019:

Hi mate, nothing is showing, can you send a link?

Sure!
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... yigAY.html

Thank you, this works fine!

Supposedly, Ocon went to the Williams factory for a seat fitting. He did fit in the car, unlike his experience with McLaren where he was a little too tall for comfort.

Another supposed rumour is Williams are asking from Mercedes for $20 million for Ocon to race at the team. Mercedes are not willing to pay so much but Mercedes would want Williams to consider Ocon & Russell together as a package. Quite interesting but ironical as well.

https://thesportsrush.com/ocon-visited- ... 0-million/

UnlikeUday wrote:Supposedly, Ocon went to the Williams factory for a seat fitting. He did fit in the car, unlike his experience with McLaren where he was a little too tall for comfort.

Another supposed rumour is Williams are asking from Mercedes for $20 million for Ocon to race at the team. Mercedes are not willing to pay so much but Mercedes would want Williams to consider Ocon & Russell together as a package. Quite interesting but ironical as well.

https://thesportsrush.com/ocon-visited- ... 0-million/

What a business move that would be from Williams. Getting paid to have a Russell/Ocon line up, hope it's true and that they pull it off.

Mercedes would get somewhere for their junior talent to go and also be able to compare the two directly over a season.

Black_Flag_11 wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:Supposedly, Ocon went to the Williams factory for a seat fitting. He did fit in the car, unlike his experience with McLaren where he was a little too tall for comfort.

Another supposed rumour is Williams are asking from Mercedes for $20 million for Ocon to race at the team. Mercedes are not willing to pay so much but Mercedes would want Williams to consider Ocon & Russell together as a package. Quite interesting but ironical as well.

https://thesportsrush.com/ocon-visited- ... 0-million/

What a business move that would be from Williams. Getting paid to have a Russell/Ocon line up, hope it's true and that they pull it off.

Mercedes would get somewhere for their junior talent to go and also be able to compare the two directly over a season.

That would be good for the sport. I hate seeing Williams having such a poor driver lineup. Ocon and Russell would be an enormous step up for them.

BMWSauber84 wrote:

Black_Flag_11 wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:Supposedly, Ocon went to the Williams factory for a seat fitting. He did fit in the car, unlike his experience with McLaren where he was a little too tall for comfort.

Another supposed rumour is Williams are asking from Mercedes for $20 million for Ocon to race at the team. Mercedes are not willing to pay so much but Mercedes would want Williams to consider Ocon & Russell together as a package. Quite interesting but ironical as well.

https://thesportsrush.com/ocon-visited- ... 0-million/

What a business move that would be from Williams. Getting paid to have a Russell/Ocon line up, hope it's true and that they pull it off.

Mercedes would get somewhere for their junior talent to go and also be able to compare the two directly over a season.

That would be good for the sport. I hate seeing Williams having such a poor driver lineup. Ocon and Russell would be an enormous step up for them.

And to get paid to run the best driver line up possible!

Pride is the only thing holding back Williams right now. It's the only explanation for turning down the Mercedes gearbox, and it would be the only reason to price themselves out of a Russell/Ocon line up. They are probably going to be paid for Stroll to be taken off of their hands too to break his contract, it's such a no brainer it's hard to imagine what any possible objection could be other than a misguided sense of still beloning to the elite in F1 and still wishing to do things their own way despite better avenues clearly being open.

Flash2k11 wrote:Pride is the only thing holding back Williams right now. It's the only explanation for turning down the Mercedes gearbox, and it would be the only reason to price themselves out of a Russell/Ocon line up. They are probably going to be paid for Stroll to be taken off of their hands too to break his contract, it's such a no brainer it's hard to imagine what any possible objection could be other than a misguided sense of still beloning to the elite in F1 and still wishing to do things their own way despite better avenues clearly being open.

Nothing more the Williams way than giving a talented young Brit a chance. And In Ocon they'd have a much better driver than they've had this year. Williams aren't good but I honestly think with two good drivers they'd be in the midfield battle.

Daniil Kyvat's return to Toro Rosso has been confirmed:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/toro ... y/3185386/

Kvyat returns with Toro Rosso:

owenmahamilton wrote:Daniil Kyvat's return to Toro Rosso has been confirmed:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/toro ... y/3185386/

Love Franz Tost's comment. " I believe he deserves another chance in Formula 1".

BS. He's in the team because he was the only reasonable option available and Marko told Tost he was getting him.

Wonder how long the contract's for?

Jezza13 wrote:

owenmahamilton wrote:Daniil Kyvat's return to Toro Rosso has been confirmed:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/toro ... y/3185386/

Love Franz Tost's comment. " I believe he deserves another chance in Formula 1".

BS. He's in the team because he was the only reasonable option available and Marko told Tost he was getting him.

Wonder how long the contract's for?

True. He was recalled just because Red Bull's driver programme has run DRY!

Jezza13 wrote:

owenmahamilton wrote:Daniil Kyvat's return to Toro Rosso has been confirmed:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/toro ... y/3185386/

Love Franz Tost's comment. " I believe he deserves another chance in Formula 1".

BS. He's in the team because he was the only reasonable option available and Marko told Tost he was getting him.

Wonder how long the contract's for?

I agree Marko simply told him who he was getting but to be fair I think Tost has been quite high in praise for Kvyat before, saying he was the best driver he worked with bar Vettel IIRC, so I don't have a hard time believing him here.

I'm pleased for Kvyat. His behaviour since losing his Torro Rosso seat has been ultra professional despite the fact he had every right to lambast Helmut. His time at Ferrari will have helped him too.

Helmut Marko has said he would consider Ocon for the remaining Toro Rosso seat only if Mercedes were to sever their ties with Ocon:
http://www.espn.in/f1/story/_/id/248295 ... tipulation

Still think Ocon would be better off as a reserve for Force India / Mercedes in 2019 & get his supposed shot with Mercedes in 2020.

Kvyat?

They all kept repeating that Kvyat has "matured". I hope so, for his own sake, but 'me thinks they do protest too much'. He is talented, but he has a five-cent head and little control over his emotions. He was doing well as a test driver because I fear that is what his temperament is suited for.

For his sake and everyone else's, I truly hope he doesn't turn back into what he was when he was in an actual race car.

I think the Torpedo will be fine. Im glad to see him back. But I also find it quite bizarre. Even more bizarre will be if Gasly vastly underperforms at Redbull and the Torpedo is promoted to Redbull again.

kleefton wrote:I think the Torpedo will be fine. Im glad to see him back. But I also find it quite bizarre. Even more bizarre will be if Gasly vastly underperforms at Redbull and the Torpedo is promoted to Redbull again.

I'd imagine Red Bull would look outside their own programme if Gasly is deemed not good enough?

TheBlackFlag wrote:They all kept repeating that Kvyat has "matured". I hope so, for his own sake, but 'me thinks they do protest too much'. He is talented, but he has a five-cent head and little control over his emotions. He was doing well as a test driver because I fear that is what his temperament is suited for.

For his sake and everyone else's, I truly hope he doesn't turn back into what he was when he was in an actual race car.

If he hadn't matured then there is absolutely no way he'd have his seat back. I know the RB young driver programme is in a state of flux but there were other options had they not wanted Kvyat.

I was happy to hear that Kvyat is returning. I think he has a lot of talent and wasn't given a proper chance last time around. I remember him in GP2, good stuff.

bourbon19 wrote:I was happy to hear that Kvyat is returning. I think he has a lot of talent and wasn't given a proper chance last time around. I remember him in GP2, good stuff.

How on earth wasn't he given a proper chance? And trust me you don't remember watching him in GP2

Kvyats a clever ploy for Red Bull to win the WDCwith Verstappen, after all what happens just about every time Kvyat gets demoted, they will have Kvyat race every second race in the hope Max win the other half

I think with Haas when it comes to picking drivers, while Ferrari won't nfluence them as in who they want to the car..I'm sure they will not want anyone from another manufacturers driver programs either, so they do have influence..just not in the way we think

the sport needs crap teams like the Minardis of the world to cultivate the new drivers properly

Williams seem to be going the Tyrrell way, I remember in one season review (the 1997 one )Ken Tyrrell came off as a bit.. stuck in the past, never got tv money and stuff cos he wouldn't sign the concorde agreement or something stating it should stil be like the old days of buying a chassis and an engine and just going racing and stuff like that..and making quips about how Bernie was the tea boy once and I remember reading it thinking "Ken, I understand what your saying but your stance is having a negative impact on the teams fortunes" and Williams are going a similar route with this fierce independance, it screwed them outta BMW engines remember

Bobafett wrote:
the sport needs crap teams like the Minardis of the world to cultivate the new drivers properly

Minardi were not a crap team. They were a team of battlers who had a go & often punched above their weight.

Bobafett wrote: Williams seem to be going the Tyrrell way, I remember in one season review (the 1997 one )Ken Tyrrell came off as a bit.. stuck in the past, never got tv money and stuff cos he wouldn't sign the concorde agreement or something stating it should stil be like the old days of buying a chassis and an engine and just going racing and stuff like that..and making quips about how Bernie was the tea boy once and I remember reading it thinking "Ken, I understand what your saying but your stance is having a negative impact on the teams fortunes" and Williams are going a similar route with this fierce independance, it screwed them outta BMW engines remember

How is fighting to remain independent living in the past?

If that's the case then this sport is worse off than I thought.

Jezza13 wrote:

Bobafett wrote:
the sport needs crap teams like the Minardis of the world to cultivate the new drivers properly

Minardi were not a crap team. They were a team of battlers who had a go & often punched above their weight.

Bobafett wrote: Williams seem to be going the Tyrrell way, I remember in one season review (the 1997 one )Ken Tyrrell came off as a bit.. stuck in the past, never got tv money and stuff cos he wouldn't sign the concorde agreement or something stating it should stil be like the old days of buying a chassis and an engine and just going racing and stuff like that..and making quips about how Bernie was the tea boy once and I remember reading it thinking "Ken, I understand what your saying but your stance is having a negative impact on the teams fortunes" and Williams are going a similar route with this fierce independance, it screwed them outta BMW engines remember

How is fighting to remain independent living in the past?

If that's the case then this sport is worse off than I thought.

With Sauber struggling to survive and Peter Sauber having to step in when BMW left it may have been the end for Williams if BMW had bought them. This sport should be built on independent teams, if they move into being manufacturers like Ferrari did and McLaren are doing then fair enough as these are still true racing teams and not just in it for the advertising (shown by them staying when the going gets tough)