Silly Season 2019 (Updated - RPFI confirms Stroll)

[pokerman]

Maybe Indycar have given a hint regarding Alonso?

I saw that, and was considering making a hype thread for it!

But we can discuss it here. I'm thinking that, improbably enough, this announcement is going to be real and Alonso is leaving F1. I know it sounds crazy, but I've had the feeling for most of this year that he's done. A full Indy season would be so exciting, and I'd love to see him rejuvenated and away from the shackles of his current situation in F1.

Also, it explains why McLaren is talking about how attractive Sainz is: they're not looking to replace Vandoorne, they know they have to replace Alonso.

Well if he goes to Indycar full time it will be the first time I've watched the series for a long time, whilst there are no top seats available to him then his talent is wasted in F1 at least for the next 2 years, maybe he comes back to F1 in 2021 if he feels the rule changes offer him better opportunities?

[Exediron]

Well if he goes to Indycar full time it will be the first time I've watched the series for a long time, whilst there are no top seats available to him then his talent is wasted in F1 at least for the next 2 years, maybe he comes back to F1 in 2021 if he feels the rule changes offer him better opportunities?

If anyone could make a sabbatical actually work it might be Alonso, but I doubt it. There's no coming back from F1.

[pokerman]

I forgot all about the situation with Toyota, that being the case that the WEC title is so important to him, more important then a drive much further up the F1 grid then why stick around in the F1 midfield anyway unless it's just for the pay cheque?

What if the reason he thought it was so funny is that he's already decided to retire from F1?

Before now he had a reason to stay in the midfield at McLaren: the hope/belief that they would no longer be midfield once they got rid of the Honda engine. That didn't happen, so now he truly has no reason to stick around where he is.

I'm still sceptical that he would turn down a Red Bull drive also bearing in mind that at the start of the season Red Bull were the benchmark for both McLaren and Alonso, podiums, race wins etc., it seemed a worthwhile goal for Alonso at the time.

[mikeyg123]

I forgot all about the situation with Toyota, that being the case that the WEC title is so important to him, more important then a drive much further up the F1 grid then why stick around in the F1 midfield anyway unless it's just for the pay cheque?

What if the reason he thought it was so funny is that he's already decided to retire from F1?

Before now he had a reason to stay in the midfield at McLaren: the hope/belief that they would no longer be midfield once they got rid of the Honda engine. That didn't happen, so now he truly has no reason to stick around where he is.

I'm still sceptical that he would turn down a Red Bull drive also bearing in mind that at the start of the season Red Bull were the benchmark for both McLaren and Alonso, podiums, race wins etc., it seemed a worthwhile goal for Alonso at the time.

I think if he had to sacrifice the WEC he probably would. I just don't think he wants to touch Honda.

[pokerman]

I forgot all about the situation with Toyota, that being the case that the WEC title is so important to him, more important then a drive much further up the F1 grid then why stick around in the F1 midfield anyway unless it's just for the pay cheque?

What if the reason he thought it was so funny is that he's already decided to retire from F1?

Before now he had a reason to stay in the midfield at McLaren: the hope/belief that they would no longer be midfield once they got rid of the Honda engine. That didn't happen, so now he truly has no reason to stick around where he is.

I'm still sceptical that he would turn down a Red Bull drive also bearing in mind that at the start of the season Red Bull were the benchmark for both McLaren and Alonso, podiums, race wins etc., it seemed a worthwhile goal for Alonso at the time.

I think if he had to sacrifice the WEC he probably would. I just don't think he wants to touch Honda.

Maybe and it would be a bit about saving face as well, but still a poor decision if he's looking to stay in F1.

[mikeyg123]

I forgot all about the situation with Toyota, that being the case that the WEC title is so important to him, more important then a drive much further up the F1 grid then why stick around in the F1 midfield anyway unless it's just for the pay cheque?

What if the reason he thought it was so funny is that he's already decided to retire from F1?

Before now he had a reason to stay in the midfield at McLaren: the hope/belief that they would no longer be midfield once they got rid of the Honda engine. That didn't happen, so now he truly has no reason to stick around where he is.

I'm still sceptical that he would turn down a Red Bull drive also bearing in mind that at the start of the season Red Bull were the benchmark for both McLaren and Alonso, podiums, race wins etc., it seemed a worthwhile goal for Alonso at the time.

I think if he had to sacrifice the WEC he probably would. I just don't think he wants to touch Honda.

Maybe and it would be a bit about saving face as well, but still a poor decision if he's looking to stay in F1.

Depends what he wants from life. If he lies racing in F1 but wants to be free to do other stuff on his spare weekends then staying at Mclaren would be the best option. Neither Mclaren or Red Bull are going to win a championship in the next two years.

[Jenson's Understeer]

I think he'll disappear to IndyCar for 2019 but not actually say he's retired from F1. Above all else, including the Triple Crown, he wants another F1 WDC. The Triple Crown is a convenient alternative because of the bridges he's burned, but there's no question he would rather spend the next two/three years fighting for the F1 WDC and then go off in search of the Triple Crown. So i think he'll keep the door open for a return to F1 in the future.

That being said, I'd love to be wrong about that because I'd much rather see him in F1. Even stuck in the midfield with McLaren.

[iano]

Depends what he wants from life. If he lies racing in F1 but wants to be free to do other stuff on his spare weekends then staying at Mclaren would be the best option. Neither Mclaren or Red Bull are going to win a championship in the next two years.

Not only are Red Bull not very likely to win a drivers championship.... even if they do they would prefer to win with Verstappen (who is their future) than with Alonso (who would then retire). It just does not add up for Red Bull to offer him a drive alongside Verstappen anyway... but certainly not to then have him as No1!!

[kleefton]

I think he'll disappear to IndyCar for 2019 but not actually say he's retired from F1. Above all else, including the Triple Crown, he wants another F1 WDC. The Triple Crown is a convenient alternative because of the bridges he's burned, but there's no question he would rather spend the next two/three years fighting for the F1 WDC and then go off in search of the Triple Crown. So i think he'll keep the door open for a return to F1 in the future.

That being said, I'd love to be wrong about that because I'd much rather see him in F1. Even stuck in the midfield with McLaren.

I am tired of seeing him in a midfield car personally. I feel like we are being cheated with that guy stuck pretty much in no man's land for so long. I was so hoping he would get the Redbull drive. I know he wasn't going to win a WDC there, but dare I say it would have been a must watch, and the thought of him racing against Vettel, Ham and Verstappen is nothing short of mouth watering. But alas it will never happen. His only chance at a WDC in the near future is if one of the top guys retires. At that point, I'd expect all the talk about his toxic personality to go out the window and he would be a solid candidate for that vacant seat. Heck, he probably should be the favorite to land it.

[Lotus49]

Given the grief he gave Honda then for various reasons there's no way he would be putting his name forward, but given the choice would you want to drive a Red Bull or a McLaren?

The question changes when it's "would you want to drive a Red Bull-Honda or a McLaren-Renault" after having endured a 3-year nightmare with Honda

If it was any other engine I would fully expect him to have been on the phone and for Horner's comments to actually mean something

It only changes because of what Alonso said about Honda so he's hardly going to have the temerity to ask to drive a Honda powered car.

However if Red Bull approached Alonso does he turn down a car that can get him some podiums and maybe the occasional win and stay in a car were he would be lucky to finish in the top 6, if it's the latter then what's Alonso staying in F1 for, just to collect a pay cheque?

It would depend if they wanted him to give up driving for Toyota, if they did then no I don't think he'd be interested at all. Why swap a WEC title to fight Max for 5th place and hopefully some podiums or a win if Honda hit the ground running and the integration goes well?

If it was still RB-Renault with no engine switch then yeah he'd obviously be interested but he knows full well what both Honda and an engine switch can do when it goes wrong so on that alone he might not have any interest at all. Add in possibly giving up the WEC title and I think it's a pretty obvious no thank you.

Only Mercedes and Ferrari have any real shot of title competitiveness every year so he'd have been wanting one of them obviously. Ideally though you want McLaren to come good.

I forgot all about the situation with Toyota, that being the case that the WEC title is so important to him, more important then a drive much further up the F1 grid then why stick around in the F1 midfield anyway unless it's just for the pay cheque?

I don't think he planned on being in the midfield. He needed to see where McLaren measured up and where Renault measured up PU wise and he got both answers this year and he may well leave for Indy now it's beyond clear that neither McLaren-Renault or in all likelihood Red Bull-Honda are up to taking on Mercedes and Ferrari, they've just got it wrapped up until 2021.

If he stays at McLaren for next year it may well be about the money. Having his own team is something he clearly enjoys in esports and it's not F1 levels of expense to run an IndyCar team so maybe he'll need all the cash he can get soon.

[UnlikeUday]

Does this mean he's leaving F1:

[JN23]

Alonso leaving McLaren might be good news for Sainz as he can take his seat?

[UnlikeUday]

Alonso leaving McLaren might be good news for Sainz as he can take his seat?

A relief for Sainz. It's a shame Alonso's quitting F1. He surely deserved more than 2 WDCs!

[mcdo]

Is there any indication at all that Alonso was trying to get into Red Bull?

Given the grief he gave Honda then for various reasons there's no way he would be putting his name forward, but given the choice would you want to drive a Red Bull or a McLaren?

The question changes when it's "would you want to drive a Red Bull-Honda or a McLaren-Renault" after having endured a 3-year nightmare with Honda

If it was any other engine I would fully expect him to have been on the phone and for Horner's comments to actually mean something

It only changes because of what Alonso said about Honda so he's hardly going to have the temerity to ask to drive a Honda powered car.

However if Red Bull approached Alonso does he turn down a car that can get him some podiums and maybe the occasional win and stay in a car were he would be lucky to finish in the top 6, if it's the latter then what's Alonso staying in F1 for, just to collect a pay cheque?

Yeah but he's a Toyota driver until midway through 2019. How could it possibly happen?

Anyway, it's a moot point now

[pokerman]

What if the reason he thought it was so funny is that he's already decided to retire from F1?

Before now he had a reason to stay in the midfield at McLaren: the hope/belief that they would no longer be midfield once they got rid of the Honda engine. That didn't happen, so now he truly has no reason to stick around where he is.

I'm still sceptical that he would turn down a Red Bull drive also bearing in mind that at the start of the season Red Bull were the benchmark for both McLaren and Alonso, podiums, race wins etc., it seemed a worthwhile goal for Alonso at the time.

I think if he had to sacrifice the WEC he probably would. I just don't think he wants to touch Honda.

Maybe and it would be a bit about saving face as well, but still a poor decision if he's looking to stay in F1.

Depends what he wants from life. If he lies racing in F1 but wants to be free to do other stuff on his spare weekends then staying at Mclaren would be the best option. Neither Mclaren or Red Bull are going to win a championship in the next two years.

Well he's gone to Indycars, I think a better option than staying in F1 with McLaren.

[pokerman]

Depends what he wants from life. If he lies racing in F1 but wants to be free to do other stuff on his spare weekends then staying at Mclaren would be the best option. Neither Mclaren or Red Bull are going to win a championship in the next two years.

Not only are Red Bull not very likely to win a drivers championship.... even if they do they would prefer to win with Verstappen (who is their future) than with Alonso (who would then retire). It just does not add up for Red Bull to offer him a drive alongside Verstappen anyway... but certainly not to then have him as No1!!

Well we were looking at it from Alonso's point of view rather than Red Bulls.

[pokerman]

Alonso leaving McLaren might be good news for Sainz as he can take his seat?

Yes that ties in with recent rumours and might even save Sainz's F1 career, something that Alonso might be concerned about and has enough influence within McLaren to facilitate?

[KingVoid]

Ideal:

Mercedes - Hamilton, Bottas
Ferrari - Vettel, Leclerc
Red Bull - Verstappen, Ocon
Renault - Ricciardo, Hulkenberg
Haas - Magnussen, Grosjean
McLaren - Sainz, Norris
Force India - Stroll, Perez
Toro Rosso - Gasly, Albon
Sauber - Giovinazzi, Ericsson
Williams - Vandoorne, Russell

Realistic:

Mercedes - Hamilton, Bottas
Ferrari - Vettel, Raikkonen
Red Bull - Verstappen, Gasly
Renault - Ricciardo, Hulkenberg
Haas - Magnussen, Leclerc
McLaren - Ocon, Norris
Force India - Stroll, Perez
Toro Rosso - Sainz, Vandoorne
Williams - Sirotkin, Russell
Sauber - Ericsson, Giovinazzi

[UnlikeUday]

With Alonso leaving, Sainz is expected to join McLaren with the team bound to make an announcement soon. This also would mean Gasly goes to Red Bull.
http://www.espn.in/f1/story/_/id/243790 ... so-mclaren

[Jezza13]

With Alonso leaving, Sainz is expected to join McLaren with the team bound to make an announcement soon. This also would mean Gasly goes to Red Bull.
http://www.espn.in/f1/story/_/id/243790 ... so-mclaren

And Vandoorne lives to fight another day.

Next year could be a do or die year in the careers of both these drivers I reckon. There'll be a lot of pressure on both of them to step up & beat the other driver.

[UnlikeUday]

With Alonso leaving, Sainz is expected to join McLaren with the team bound to make an announcement soon. This also would mean Gasly goes to Red Bull.
http://www.espn.in/f1/story/_/id/243790 ... so-mclaren

And Vandoorne lives to fight another day.

Next year could be a do or die year in the careers of both these drivers I reckon. There'll be a lot of pressure on both of them to step up & beat the other driver.

Question is how do You step up in a McLaren?

[Jezza13]

With Alonso leaving, Sainz is expected to join McLaren with the team bound to make an announcement soon. This also would mean Gasly goes to Red Bull.
http://www.espn.in/f1/story/_/id/243790 ... so-mclaren

And Vandoorne lives to fight another day.

Next year could be a do or die year in the careers of both these drivers I reckon. There'll be a lot of pressure on both of them to step up & beat the other driver.

Question is how do You step up in a McLaren?

You do the only thing you can do.

You flog your teammate.

[stevey]

looking at the lineup for 2019 makes me realize a lack of British racing talent on the grid, i'm interested in who will be the next big British driver after Hamilton leaves.

[Black_Flag_11]

looking at the lineup for 2019 makes me realize a lack of British racing talent on the grid, i'm interested in who will be the next big British driver after Hamilton leaves.

Well Russell and Norris are the next two promising junior drivers coming through the ranks and they happen to both be British so it will be one of/both of them.

[mikeyg123]

looking at the lineup for 2019 makes me realize a lack of British racing talent on the grid, i'm interested in who will be the next big British driver after Hamilton leaves.

With Russell, Norris and Albon leading in F2 and Ticktum the next in line on the RBR conveyor belt we should be fine. I'd be very surprised if at least two of them aren't in F1 by 2020.

[BMWSauber84]

It's the right call from Fernando. The Mclaren gamble hasn't paid off. I can understand him trying this season out, as he was looking to see if Mclaren could show this season that they could be competitive for 2019. Sadly they still look years away from being competitive.

[JN23]

If Norris doesn't win F2 and Russell does, where does Russell fit into all of this? A seat at Williams maybe?

Of the top of my head

Merc - Ham/Bottas
Ferrari - Vettel/Kimi
RB - Verstappen/Gasly
Renault - Ric/Hulk
FI - Stroll/Ocon
Mclaren - Sainz/Vandoorne
Sauber - Ericcson/Leclerc
Hass - Magnussen/???
Williams - Perez/Russell

I guess Perez could also end up at Haas, as could Leclerc. Or Leclerc could go to Ferrari leaving another seat open further down the grid. Norris winning the title could still mean the end of Vandoorne

[Noni]

This has been one hell of a silly season IMO!!...

Probably the most craziest so far!......

[Jenson's Understeer]

If Norris doesn't win F2 and Russell does, where does Russell fit into all of this? A seat at Williams maybe?

Of the top of my head

Merc - Ham/Bottas
Ferrari - Vettel/Kimi
RB - Verstappen/Gasly
Renault - Ric/Hulk
FI - Stroll/Ocon
Mclaren - Sainz/Vandoorne
Sauber - Ericcson/Leclerc
Hass - Magnussen/???
Williams - Perez/Russell

That aligns pretty closely with my thinking...

- Kimi staying at Ferrari makes sense right now. He's driving well, he's playing the team game, Seb wants him there and Leclerc's last made a few notable errors recently. That's not really a criticism of him; just a reminder that he is still a driver who has completed less than a dozen races in F1 and rushing him into the Ferrari seat, if there is a feasible alternative, might not be the best thing for him long-term. In that case, I'd see Leclerc being promoted to Haas to partner Magnussen, with Giovinazzi taking his seat at Sauber.
- I still think Red Bull's best choice would be to promote Sainz, make it clear he has to co-exist with Verstappen, and give Gasly another year with Toro Rosso. It helps Gasly develop, gives Red Bull a more experienced partner for Verstappen, and doesn't leave them scrambling around to try to find two new Toro Rosso drivers. And yet all the speculation has Sainz going to McLaren and Gasly being promoted to Red Bull, so it's hard to believe that won't be what happens.
- Stroll to Force India is basically a certainty, and Ocon remaining makes sense if Lawrence is looking to have closer ties to Mercedes.
- The other Mercedes youngest would then end up at Williams, and having been shuffled out at Force India, Sergio Perez takes his substantial Mexican backing to Williams, a team who would welcome that given they're losing Martini and Lance Stroll. It would be tough on Sirotkin, who would most likely find himself out of F1 without ever really having had a car to show what he can do. The only other alternative would be Perez taking Ericsson's seat at Sauber, alongside Giovinazzi, or even ending up at Haas with Leclerc remaining at Sauber. Unless Ferrari do promote Leclerc, in which case there would be a potentially free seat at both Ferrari customer teams that Perez could target.
- As for Toro Rosso, (shrug). Vandoorne if he gets bumped out at McLaren, or perhaps Norris if Vandoorne keeps his seat and they can work out a deal with McLaren? And then the other seat... I'm even more at a loss. I don't see the FIA letting Ticktum race. They wouldn't even let him test, after all. Alex Albon was previously backed by Red Bull and would qualify for a Superlicense with a top-5 finish in this year's F2 standings, which seems possible. So maybe he ends up back in the fold.

Mercedes: Hamilton/Bottas
Ferrari: Vettel/Raikkonen
Red Bull: Verstappen/Gasly
Renault: Ricciardo/Hulkenberg
Force India: Stroll/Ocon
Haas: Magnussen/Leclerc
McLaren: Sainz/Vandoorne (or Norris)
Toro Rosso: Albon/Norris (or Vandoorne)
Sauber: Ericsson/Giovinazzi
Williams: Russell/Perez

Maybe? I don't know. So many moving parts this year.

[mikeyg123]

I'm concerned we may lose Perez. If so it will be a travesty. There will be drivers on the grid in 2019 that can't hold a candle to him IMO.

[Jenson's Understeer]

I'm concerned we may lose Perez. If so it will be a travesty. There will be drivers on the grid in 2019 that can't hold a candle to him IMO.

I'm curious what makes you think that he might not be on the grid next year? Haas, Sauber and Williams are all potential options, and for Williams particularly he makes too much sense not to be going after.

I personally think Grosjean will be the guy who gets shuffled out - he's just picked the wrong year to have a nightmare season, especially when you consider that last year he was the better of the Haas pairing.

[mikeyg123]

I'm concerned we may lose Perez. If so it will be a travesty. There will be drivers on the grid in 2019 that can't hold a candle to him IMO.

I'm curious what makes you think that he might not be on the grid next year? Haas, Sauber and Williams are all potential options, and for Williams particularly he makes too much sense not to be going after.

I personally think Grosjean will be the guy who gets shuffled out - he's just picked the wrong year to have a nightmare season, especially when you consider that last year he was the better of the Haas pairing.

I think he could go to all three but I can see reasons why they may not be available to him as well. Haas have made zero noise about ditching Grosjean, Sauber is probably a no go if Ferrari don't go for Leclerc and Williams will probably go with Russell plus the highest bidder. Perez brings money but does he bring more than Sirotkin?

Haas is my biggest hope for him. I think he would do well for them.

[Exediron]

Perez brings money but does he bring more than Sirotkin?

I believe that he does, or at least very close. These amounts are rarely known, but Perez's sponsorship is supposed to be in the low teens, much like or above Sirotkin's amount. Plus the extra results would pay for any possible gap.

[Paolo_Lasardi]

I'm concerned we may lose Perez. If so it will be a travesty. There will be drivers on the grid in 2019 that can't hold a candle to him IMO.

Yes, me as well. I have a feeling we will see him racing Formula E instead.

[Lt. Drebin]

I'm concerned we may lose Perez. If so it will be a travesty. There will be drivers on the grid in 2019 that can't hold a candle to him IMO.

Courtesy of very low number of teams. We need at least 3 more teams to let the drivers have their seat, ideally eve more (so that we have DNQ's again). See what happened with Pascal Wehrlein? He beat or matched his team mates (Haryanto, Ericcson and Ocon), and still lost a drive. It's like musical chairs now in F1.

[UnlikeUday]

I'm concerned we may lose Perez. If so it will be a travesty. There will be drivers on the grid in 2019 that can't hold a candle to him IMO.

I'm not worried because:

- He had recently said he has a couple of options for next year. Don't know if couple of teams have approached him or whether he thinks a few teams will have a vacant seat & he can try to negotiate.
- He brings considerable sponsorship with him.
- In 2016 & 2017, he was 'best of the rest' driver. He has achieved the most podiums in a midfield car in recent times & he can pull out results out of nowhere.

No way, he's off the grid. I'd rather be more concerned for Grosjean, Sirotkin, Vandoorne & Ericsson if You ask me. It's just that I'm not concerned for them as I rate Checo much higher than all these combined.

[UnlikeUday]

Sainz confirmed at McLaren:
https://www.mclaren.com/formula1/inside ... aren-2019/

[pokerman]

If Norris doesn't win F2 and Russell does, where does Russell fit into all of this? A seat at Williams maybe?

Of the top of my head

Merc - Ham/Bottas
Ferrari - Vettel/Kimi
RB - Verstappen/Gasly
Renault - Ric/Hulk
FI - Stroll/Ocon
Mclaren - Sainz/Vandoorne
Sauber - Ericcson/Leclerc
Hass - Magnussen/???
Williams - Perez/Russell

I guess Perez could also end up at Haas, as could Leclerc. Or Leclerc could go to Ferrari leaving another seat open further down the grid. Norris winning the title could still mean the end of Vandoorne

I believe that Sirotkin has a contract with Williams for next season so put Perez in the Haas.

[pokerman]

Trying to decipher everything that's being said this is how I'm seeing the landscape at the moment:-

Mercedes
Hamilton
Bottas

Ferrari
Vettel
Raikkonen

Red Bull
Verstappen
Gasly

Renault
Ricciardo
Hulkenberg

McLaren
Sainz
Vandoorne

Force India
Stroll
Perez

Williams
Sirotkin
Ocon

STR
Norris
Giovinazzi/Albon

Haas
Magnussen
Grosjean/Leclerc

Sauber
Ericsson
Leclerc/Giovinazzi

The main factor that might change the line ups is just how committed are both Mercedes and Ferrari to their junior drivers. Both Ricciardo joining Renault and the Strolls buying Force India have put the spanner in the works for the Mercedes junior drivers, to get both drivers on the grid as far as I can see would involve finding Ocon a seat at McLaren so that Russell can join Williams but there appears to be no real strong rumours that will happen whereas for instance there is a strong rumour that Perez is close to signing for Force India.

Meanwhile in regards to Ferrari to get both their juniors on the grid would involve Leclerc replacing Grosjean at Haas so Giovinazzi can join Sauber but again there are no strong rumours this will happen whilst there is a rumour that Giovinazzi might be of interest to STR.

Regarding STR, Will Buxton is campaigning for former Red Bull junior Albon to get a seat there, what is also of interest concerning Albon is that he is part Thai and Red Bull is co-owned by a Thai, Albon is one of the front runners in F2 being up there with Russell and Norris.

The Norris tie in with STR is thought to be some kind of part ex deal with Sainz, I'm not sure if James Key may also be wrapped in with this but that would be highly speculative.

[RaggedMan]

I don't see the upside to placing Leclerc at Haas for either him or the team. Haas might be willing to take on Ferrari Academy/affiliated drivers but they're looking to be competitors themselves so I don't see them willing to take on one that might only be there for 1 season. Haas would be better off taking on Giovinazzi IMO.

While Leclerc might benefit from being in a more competitive car. The Sauber isn't as bad as it has been the last few years, and could well be better in 2019, he really needs is more race seat time which he can get plenty of where he is now and doesn't need the complication of adapting to a new team.