Silly Season 2019 (Updated - RPFI confirms Stroll)

Zoue · Post by **Zoue** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:23 pm

mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:Why on earth would Ricciardo go to McLaren, a team who are the slowest of the three Renault-powered teams (despite having the best driver of the lot) when he has said if he leaves Red Bull it will be in pursuit of a shot at the WDC? McLaren have shown zero ability to provide such an opportunity for their drivers for over half a decade and right now, the only thing they've got going for them is the history behind the team.

Right now if he's going to leave Red Bull but stay with a Renault-powered team then Renault are by far and away the better choice, and even then he's still hoping that a) their progress continues and b) Honda's progress falters.

Exediron wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:Supposedly, McLaren have offered a multi year deal to Ricciardo where he'll get $20 million per year.
https://www.foxsports.com.au/motorsport ... b4f756211c
If true, that has to mean they're looking to get rid of Vandoorne. Even if Alonso leaves, they're adamant that they're going to give Norris a seat: a multi-year deal could only be filling Vandoorne's slot.

Mind you, that first 'if' is a big one. We're well and truly into Silly Season now.
BIB: I actually disagree. I think Alonso is as good as gone, if not from F1 then certainly from McLaren, and Ricciardo simply represents the best available driver to replace him. So it's logical they would have some interest in him regardless of the likelihood that they can actually attract him. Realistically, they won't, and they'll end up replacing Alonso from within (Norris) and keeping Vandoorne.
How would it be not true though that if Ricciardo did sign for McLaren then Vandoorne would be gone.

The actual merry go round would then see Sainz at Red Bull and Vandoorne at Renault.
I only see them signing Ricciardo if Alonso leaves, freeing up a lot of budget to spend on Ricciardo.

I also somehow think that Alonso has made up his mind about leaving and has informed McLaren already.

I'm kinda with you on this. I think Alonso will be the one to go as it doesn't look like McLaren will be in a position to catch the leaders for the foreseeable future. Have a feeling they will be taking him to Indy

Lt. Drebin · Post by **Lt. Drebin** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:24 pm

Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:Mclaren will either fold or be sold in 3-4 years at most. Big name gone wrong path. Ricciardo has no business going there.
Are you talking about McLaren Technology Group, composed of McLaren Racing, McLaren Automotive, and McLaren Applied Technologies, with over 5,000 employees and revenue in excess of 500 million dollars?

No. I am talking about currently hugely unsuccessful Mclaren F1 team. The past glory and the big name is all what is left out of them.

mds · Post by **mds** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:25 pm

Jezza13 wrote:
mds wrote:
Hamilton is yet to sign, yes? So it makes sense that Mercedes would like to have options, and in that regard talks with Ricciardo seem logical.
Both seem comfortable they'll be together next year and the delay is just to allow them to focus on the Ferrari threat

http://www.espn.com.au/f1/story/_/id/23 ... ract-talks

And again, what option does Hamilton have if he wants to stay in F1? No chance Ferrari or RB. So what are his options?

He's in a similar, albeit a slightly stronger boat, as Ricciardo. Hamilton's not going anywhere next year and both him & Merc know it.

I agree that that is highly likely, doesn't mean there can't be some talks for when the unthinkable happens. Drivers and teams talk all the time, sometimes serious, other times casual and non-committed.

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:39 pm

mds wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:If true what does that say of McLaren's incumbent drivers given that surely Norris will be in the team next year?
The assumption is that Norris will be in the team next year, but we don't know that for sure.
I don't think we should even assume that. Not long ago someone from team management indicated the situation wasn't that easy and that the amount of control they had over other teams was limited - so from that it followed that they were mainly looking to get hem in another team.

The bottom line is though if McLaren can't give Norris a seat in F1 for next year then he's a free agent, Red Bull have already come knocking at the door.

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:42 pm

mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:Why on earth would Ricciardo go to McLaren, a team who are the slowest of the three Renault-powered teams (despite having the best driver of the lot) when he has said if he leaves Red Bull it will be in pursuit of a shot at the WDC? McLaren have shown zero ability to provide such an opportunity for their drivers for over half a decade and right now, the only thing they've got going for them is the history behind the team.

Right now if he's going to leave Red Bull but stay with a Renault-powered team then Renault are by far and away the better choice, and even then he's still hoping that a) their progress continues and b) Honda's progress falters.

Exediron wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:Supposedly, McLaren have offered a multi year deal to Ricciardo where he'll get $20 million per year.
https://www.foxsports.com.au/motorsport ... b4f756211c
If true, that has to mean they're looking to get rid of Vandoorne. Even if Alonso leaves, they're adamant that they're going to give Norris a seat: a multi-year deal could only be filling Vandoorne's slot.

Mind you, that first 'if' is a big one. We're well and truly into Silly Season now.
BIB: I actually disagree. I think Alonso is as good as gone, if not from F1 then certainly from McLaren, and Ricciardo simply represents the best available driver to replace him. So it's logical they would have some interest in him regardless of the likelihood that they can actually attract him. Realistically, they won't, and they'll end up replacing Alonso from within (Norris) and keeping Vandoorne.
How would it be not true though that if Ricciardo did sign for McLaren then Vandoorne would be gone.

The actual merry go round would then see Sainz at Red Bull and Vandoorne at Renault.
I only see them signing Ricciardo if Alonso leaves, freeing up a lot of budget to spend on Ricciardo.

I also somehow think that Alonso has made up his mind about leaving and has informed McLaren already.

Well that is the gist of what is being said.

Jezza13 · Post by **Jezza13** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:56 pm

Just thinking how interesting it'd be if Vettel was off contract at the end of this year too.

UnlikeUday · Post by **UnlikeUday** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:05 pm

The win at Le Mans could've reshuffled Alonso's priorities. He knows or probably feels he's not going to be in a race winning car in F1. Winning in any category surely gives quite a high. Alonso winning at Le Mans & struggling for so many years in F1 might've forced him into quitting F1 based on his recent win.

If Alonso leaves, McLaren would want some good driver to fill his shoes. Ricciardo is a close fit but Ricciardo I'm sure won't get motivated enough to sign for McLaren.

Johnson · Post by **Johnson** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:57 pm

Does anybody know how wealthy the Ricciardo family are? I know Daniel Ricciardo came from money and his family are involved in the mining business. I'm pretty certain the family wealth isn't the Lance Stroll league but maybe this will play a part in his decisions.

Most drivers, from relatively normal backgrounds would factor wages into a decision. Maybe Ricciardo has the luxury to not have to worry about earning half at Red Bull than he would at Mclaren.

Jenson's Understeer · Post by **Jenson's Understeer** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:54 pm

Johnson wrote:Does anybody know how wealthy the Ricciardo family are? I know Daniel Ricciardo came from money and his family are involved in the mining business. I'm pretty certain the family wealth isn't the Lance Stroll league but maybe this will play a part in his decisions.

Most drivers, from relatively normal backgrounds would factor wages into a decision. Maybe Ricciardo has the luxury to not have to worry about earning half at Red Bull than he would at Mclaren.

He's already said that money isn't the main factor in the decision:

"I know what I want, and the performance side is more important than ticking the money box, if you like," he said. "Having the chance to be able to fight for something really meaningful – races, championships – that's the absolute priority. It's not even close."

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ricc ... ke-985855/

He's not going to drive for free but I think if he feels Red Bull are his best option, he'd absolutely stay there on a lower salary than what he could get elsewhere.

paulsf1fix · Post by **paulsf1fix** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:52 pm

It's being reported that Ferrari are or could promote Charles Leclerc to replace Kimi Raikkonen for 2019, this is being reported by Autosport. Last time they did this report in which they list 'Autosport has learned' it was about Red Bull going with the Honda engines. So if this happens I wonder if they (Ferrari) promote either Danil Kvyat or Antonio Giovinazzi to Sauber for 2019. Interesting....

Warheart01 · Post by **Warheart01** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:12 pm

Oh what a joy it will be watching Leclerc wipe the floor with Vettel, if it's true he gets the 2019 drive.

Jenson's Understeer · Post by **Jenson's Understeer** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:06 pm

Part of me wonders if it is too soon for Charles, but that's purely because I don't think another year at Sauber (or Haas) would do him any harm. Saying that, all I have to do is cast my mind back to Baku last year and the performance he put in days after the passing of his father. If he can deliver a result under that kind of emotional pressure, I do genuinely believe he'll be able to handle whatever pressure comes with such an early promotion to Ferrari should that be what happens.

paulsf1fix wrote:It's being reported that Ferrari are or could promote Charles Leclerc to replace Kimi Raikkonen for 2019, this is being reported by Autosport. Last time they did this report in which they list 'Autosport has learned' it was about Red Bull going with the Honda engines. So if this happens I wonder if they (Ferrari) promote either Danil Kvyat or Antonio Giovinazzi to Sauber for 2019. Interesting....

As an aside, a reminder of how ridiculous it is that both Autosport and Motorsport continue to exist: Motorsport.com had the exact same article as Autosport.com, but changed 'Autosport.com has learned' to 'Motorsport.com has learned'

sandman1347 · Post by **sandman1347** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:48 pm

That is MASSIVE if it's true. Leclerc facing Vettel in the same car (potentially a defending champion) at just 21 years of age? That's a big ask and I'm sure Ferrari will start with him in the #2 role but, if the kid proves to be quicker than Vettel (which I don't think is impossible), things will get interesting. Easily shoots to the top of the list of most anticipated teammate matchups.

Zoue · Post by **Zoue** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:56 pm

Jenson's Understeer wrote:Part of me wonders if it is too soon for Charles, but that's purely because I don't think another year at Sauber (or Haas) would do him any harm. Saying that, all I have to do is cast my mind back to Baku last year and the performance he put in days after the passing of his father. If he can deliver a result under that kind of emotional pressure, I do genuinely believe he'll be able to handle whatever pressure comes with such an early promotion to Ferrari should that be what happens.

paulsf1fix wrote:It's being reported that Ferrari are or could promote Charles Leclerc to replace Kimi Raikkonen for 2019, this is being reported by Autosport. Last time they did this report in which they list 'Autosport has learned' it was about Red Bull going with the Honda engines. So if this happens I wonder if they (Ferrari) promote either Danil Kvyat or Antonio Giovinazzi to Sauber for 2019. Interesting....
As an aside, a reminder of how ridiculous it is that both Autosport and Motorsport continue to exist: Motorsport.com had the exact same article as Autosport.com, but changed 'Autosport.com has learned' to 'Motorsport.com has learned'

yeah ever since they were bought out the two sites have basically published identikit articles. Pointless, really

Zoue · Post by **Zoue** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:00 pm

paulsf1fix wrote:It's being reported that Ferrari are or could promote Charles Leclerc to replace Kimi Raikkonen for 2019, this is being reported by Autosport. Last time they did this report in which they list 'Autosport has learned' it was about Red Bull going with the Honda engines. So if this happens I wonder if they (Ferrari) promote either Danil Kvyat or Antonio Giovinazzi to Sauber for 2019. Interesting....

A part of me will be sad to see Kimi go, but I think it would be a positive move to promote Leclerc. Would be interesting to see what he can do. I don't think he needs to serve a longer apprenticeship

Black_Flag_11 · Post by **Black_Flag_11** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:28 pm

Hmmm don't think I believe the Leclerc one. If they were going to promote him directly to the main team I imagine they would place him with Sauber for 1 more season to see how he develops.

He's been very impressive but it would be a bit of a shock for Ferrari to take him on the basis of his performance in 7 races.

Asphalt_World · Post by **Asphalt_World** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:41 pm

Whilst it's no guarantee, Autosport don't normally deal with gossip like some pages do. Must be some decent evidence if they are promoting this story so much.

Black_Flag_11 · Post by **Black_Flag_11** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:44 pm

Asphalt_World wrote:Whilst it's no guarantee, Autosport don't normally deal with gossip like some pages do. Must be some decent evidence if they are promoting this story so much.

Yeah they seem pretty confident, though they do say in the article that no decision has been made per their info. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see this happen for 2020, but I would be surprised if it happened for 2019, especially after Kimi's best start to a season since his Ferrari return.

It would be cool to see though and I'd be quite impressed with Ferrari for the massive change in approach regarding how experienced their drivers need to be.

mikeyg123 · Post by **mikeyg123** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:47 pm

Black_Flag_11 wrote:Hmmm don't think I believe the Leclerc one. If they were going to promote him directly to the main team I imagine they would place him with Sauber for 1 more season to see how he develops.

He's been very impressive but it would be a bit of a shock for Ferrari to take him on the basis of his performance in 7 races.

I don't actually think it's that much of a risk. What does Kimi do that Leclerc wouldn't?

Llotyhy · Post by **Llotyhy** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:51 pm

Apparently this article: http://www.circusf1.com/2018/06/raikkon ... e-anno.php says that Kimi told Ferrari that he wanted to quit after this season (I can't read Italian). Maybe someone here can?

If that's true it doesn't make any sense to take someone else over Leclerc for one season, because they will surely want Leclerc in the seat in 2020 at the latest.

F1 MERCENARY · Post by **F1 MERCENARY** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:20 pm

Warheart01 wrote:Oh what a joy it will be watching Leclerc wipe the floor with Vettel, if it's true he gets the 2019 drive.

You must be sniffing some magic pixie dust from tinker bell herself!

How or why some people continue to believe that Vettel is some 2nd rate driver is beyond comprehension. Vettel will beat Leclerc should they be paired together. He’s simply too good a qualifier and no one is better at distancing themselves from the pack while leading. Not even Hamilton sometimes can create a gap as large as Vettel can in the first couple of laps. I’m not saying Leclerc isn’t capable of beating Vettel, but to say so as though it’s a foregone conclusion is a bit over the top as he is still quite young yet and Vettel is a proven quantity in the way of being an all-time great.

I’ll wait to see them on track together before putting my money on the kid. So much was said about Vandoorne taking the fight to Alonso based on his prior successes leading up to F1, but to this point my assessment of those assumptions has been 1,000,000% correct and Alonso has been able to beat him regularly with relative ease, and possibly exposing Vandoorne in that perhaps it says a little something about the level of opposition he faced in the lower categories.

Black_Flag_11 · Post by **Black_Flag_11** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:21 pm

mikeyg123 wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:Hmmm don't think I believe the Leclerc one. If they were going to promote him directly to the main team I imagine they would place him with Sauber for 1 more season to see how he develops.

He's been very impressive but it would be a bit of a shock for Ferrari to take him on the basis of his performance in 7 races.
I don't actually think it's that much of a risk. What does Kimi do that Leclerc wouldn't?

Agree with you, it would just fly in the face of the usual Ferrari driver policy is all. If Kimi has made the decision to call it quits though then that makes a little more sense.

UnlikeUday · Post by **UnlikeUday** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:54 am

There are couple of reasons why they would sign Leclerc (prematurely):

- He's a Ferrari Academy driver.
- He's got talent.
- Because he's young, somewhat inexperienced (when it comes to F1), he'd fit into the no.2 driver role well where he would comply with all intra team rules, which I doubt Ricciardo or Perez would do.

Toby. · Post by **Toby.** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:26 am

Maybe it's wishful thinking by me but it would seem to me to make more sense for Ferrari to not risk it, sign Ricciardo on a two-year contract and then review which way to go with drivers when both Ricciardo and Vettel's contracts are up at the end of 2020.

Leclerc is still an unknown quantity at the top level and Ferrari desperately need two good drivers if they're thinking they can win a WCC, which they haven't done in 10 years this year.

Llotyhy · Post by **Llotyhy** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:39 am

They're not willing to pay his salary according to the reports. Plus, they don't want to lose their investment into Leclerc and risk losing him to another team (he's not their property, he has a contract).

The chance Ricciardo is going to Ferrari (or Mercedes) really is very very small, no matter what he himself or the media are telling us.

mikeyg123 · Post by **mikeyg123** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:46 am

I want Ricciardo to go just because it will start a bit of a chain reaction with drivers switching seats. Everything has become too static in the driver market. I wouldn't be surprised to see even Grosjean retained at Haas.

Llotyhy · Post by **Llotyhy** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:58 am

mikeyg123 wrote:I want Ricciardo to go just because it will start a bit of a chain reaction with drivers switching seats. Everything has become too static in the driver market. I wouldn't be surprised to see even Grosjean retained at Haas.

We probably won't need Ricciardo for that. With Raikkonen quitting and Alonso looking like going to Indycar we might get that after all. I really wouldn't rule out the Ricciardo to McLaren story either. I think it would be a great opportunity for him to be lead driver in a big team/organization and he would get the salary that fits that. Reports say that if McLaren can't get Ricciardo they'll try to go for Sainz, I don't know if that's true, but it looks like they want an experienced driver. I think this silly season is far from over.

Jenson's Understeer · Post by **Jenson's Understeer** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:26 am

Llotyhy wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:I want Ricciardo to go just because it will start a bit of a chain reaction with drivers switching seats. Everything has become too static in the driver market. I wouldn't be surprised to see even Grosjean retained at Haas.

We probably won't need Ricciardo for that. With Raikkonen quitting and Alonso looking like going to Indycar we might get that after all. I really wouldn't rule out the Ricciardo to McLaren story either. I think it would be a great opportunity for him to be lead driver in a big team/organization and he would get the salary that fits that. Reports say that if McLaren can't get Ricciardo they'll try to go for Sainz, I don't know if that's true, but it looks like they want an experienced driver. I think this silly season is far from over.

BIB: I'd tend to agree with Mikey. If they both promote from within then it won't set off a chain reaction at all as the only seat that would then need filling is Leclerc's at Sauber, which I'd bet my house on Giovinazzi taking.

However, Ricciardo to Ferrari would open up a seat at Red Bull which Sainz would take, so that's not too exciting, but all of a sudden there would be a seat available at Renault. My guess is they would immediately turn their attention to Fernando Alonso, who right now would surely be more interested in racing for the quicker team (with whom he has very positive memories) than McLaren with whom his memories are largely negative. Failing that I suspect they would try and prise Ocon away from Mercedes, and if they couldn't get him they'd attempt to reunite the Hulkenberg/Perez partnership. If they got Alonso then Norris takes that seat, but if they got one of the Force India drivers then you've got FI looking for a driver. Perhaps George Russell if it is Ocon who moves to Renault, or Lance Stroll if they lost Perez (and the considerable Mexican backing that comes with him). One of the Haas drivers might be available in that scenario (as Leclerc wouldn't have moved to Ferrari but instead could be 'promoted' to Haas) so there would be a more experienced option if they fancied it. And then Giovinazzi takes the seat at Sauber.

Ricciardo to Mercedes... depends who he replaces. If it were Hamilton leaving F1 then all of the above would apply. If it were Bottas then I'd imagine Ricciardo > Mercedes, Sainz > Red Bull, Bottas > Renault, which is a shake-up but nowhere near as big.

Zoue · Post by **Zoue** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:41 am

mikeyg123 wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:Hmmm don't think I believe the Leclerc one. If they were going to promote him directly to the main team I imagine they would place him with Sauber for 1 more season to see how he develops.

He's been very impressive but it would be a bit of a shock for Ferrari to take him on the basis of his performance in 7 races.
I don't actually think it's that much of a risk. What does Kimi do that Leclerc wouldn't?

Agreed. And if a driver is as good as Leclerc is supposed to be, I don't see that it should be that much of a risk anyway.

Beleriand_K · Post by **Beleriand_K** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:59 am

Teddy007 wrote:Right now, is not the time to go to Mclaren.

They need to get their issues sorted out.

Maybe it is exactly the right time to go to McLaren. McLarens F1 team is deeply disappointing this season, but they are a big organization with big money behind. Yesterday Martin Whitmarsh talked about the need to replace senior members of the company, and today there's rumours of a potential strike at McLaren because the employees don't believe in the "big four" management team anymore.

This obviously can't go on, and it's just a matter of when, not if, something is done about it. And with McLaren back on track with a Renault-engine which Red Bull has already won two races with this season, it could be a bright future for McLaren.

We saw Hamilton leaving McLaren for a - at that time - mediocre Mercedes team, and history shows the brilliance of that decision. The same goes for Schumachers move to Ferrari, which wasn't a winning team when he joined them, but had the potential to be a winner again. And they did.

Maybe Ricciardo can do a Hamilton/Schumacher at McLaren?

Zoue · Post by **Zoue** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:18 am

Beleriand_K wrote:
Teddy007 wrote:Right now, is not the time to go to Mclaren.

They need to get their issues sorted out.
Maybe it is exactly the right time to go to McLaren. McLarens F1 team is deeply disappointing this season, but they are a big organization with big money behind. Yesterday Martin Whitmarsh talked about the need to replace senior members of the company, and today there's rumours of a potential strike at McLaren because the employees don't believe in the "big four" management team anymore.

This obviously can't go on, and it's just a matter of when, not if, something is done about it. And with McLaren back on track with a Renault-engine which Red Bull has already won two races with this season, it could be a bright future for McLaren.

We saw Hamilton leaving McLaren for a - at that time - mediocre Mercedes team, and history shows the brilliance of that decision. The same goes for Schumachers move to Ferrari, which wasn't a winning team when he joined them, but had the potential to be a winner again. And they did.

Maybe Ricciardo can do a Hamilton/Schumacher at McLaren?

Thing is if any of those rumours are true, then it would take a lot more than a driver to fix it.

Jenson's Understeer · Post by **Jenson's Understeer** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:23 am

Beleriand_K wrote:
Teddy007 wrote:Right now, is not the time to go to Mclaren.

They need to get their issues sorted out.
Maybe it is exactly the right time to go to McLaren. McLarens F1 team is deeply disappointing this season, but they are a big organization with big money behind. Yesterday Martin Whitmarsh talked about the need to replace senior members of the company, and today there's rumours of a potential strike at McLaren because the employees don't believe in the "big four" management team anymore.

This obviously can't go on, and it's just a matter of when, not if, something is done about it. And with McLaren back on track with a Renault-engine which Red Bull has already won two races with this season, it could be a bright future for McLaren.

We saw Hamilton leaving McLaren for a - at that time - mediocre Mercedes team, and history shows the brilliance of that decision. The same goes for Schumachers move to Ferrari, which wasn't a winning team when he joined them, but had the potential to be a winner again. And they did.

Maybe Ricciardo can do a Hamilton/Schumacher at McLaren?

People (including Daniel himself) keep referring to what has happened with Hamilton at Mercedes, or how things went with Schumacher and Ferrari, but there is one huge difference between those two situations and a potential Ricciardo/McLaren agreement: McLaren are a customer team. Mercedes and Ferrari are both works teams. If Ricciardo wants the best chance at replicating Hamilton and Schumacher then he should be looking at Enstone and disregarding McLaren's advances.

veffy · Post by **veffy** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:29 am

Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Beleriand_K wrote:
Teddy007 wrote:Right now, is not the time to go to Mclaren.

They need to get their issues sorted out.
Maybe it is exactly the right time to go to McLaren. McLarens F1 team is deeply disappointing this season, but they are a big organization with big money behind. Yesterday Martin Whitmarsh talked about the need to replace senior members of the company, and today there's rumours of a potential strike at McLaren because the employees don't believe in the "big four" management team anymore.

This obviously can't go on, and it's just a matter of when, not if, something is done about it. And with McLaren back on track with a Renault-engine which Red Bull has already won two races with this season, it could be a bright future for McLaren.

We saw Hamilton leaving McLaren for a - at that time - mediocre Mercedes team, and history shows the brilliance of that decision. The same goes for Schumachers move to Ferrari, which wasn't a winning team when he joined them, but had the potential to be a winner again. And they did.

Maybe Ricciardo can do a Hamilton/Schumacher at McLaren?
People (including Daniel himself) keep referring to what has happened with Hamilton at Mercedes, or how things went with Schumacher and Ferrari, but there is one huge difference between those two situations and a potential Ricciardo/McLaren agreement: McLaren are a customer team. Mercedes and Ferrari are both works teams. If Ricciardo wants the best chance at replicating Hamilton and Schumacher then he should be looking at Enstone and disregarding McLaren's advances.

I agree with this. Mclaren will come good but it feels like things there will get worse before they get better, they're still on the downward slope of their dip where as to pull off the Ham/Schu situations you're discussing it's all about jumping on board at that turning point and then growing together into championship operation.

I think a #1 move to Renault would be an excellent decision for Dan, it might not get him a championship in 2019 but it may very well in 2020 or 2021.

Zoue · Post by **Zoue** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:38 am

Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Beleriand_K wrote:
Teddy007 wrote:Right now, is not the time to go to Mclaren.

They need to get their issues sorted out.
Maybe it is exactly the right time to go to McLaren. McLarens F1 team is deeply disappointing this season, but they are a big organization with big money behind. Yesterday Martin Whitmarsh talked about the need to replace senior members of the company, and today there's rumours of a potential strike at McLaren because the employees don't believe in the "big four" management team anymore.

This obviously can't go on, and it's just a matter of when, not if, something is done about it. And with McLaren back on track with a Renault-engine which Red Bull has already won two races with this season, it could be a bright future for McLaren.

We saw Hamilton leaving McLaren for a - at that time - mediocre Mercedes team, and history shows the brilliance of that decision. The same goes for Schumachers move to Ferrari, which wasn't a winning team when he joined them, but had the potential to be a winner again. And they did.

Maybe Ricciardo can do a Hamilton/Schumacher at McLaren?
People (including Daniel himself) keep referring to what has happened with Hamilton at Mercedes, or how things went with Schumacher and Ferrari, but there is one huge difference between those two situations and a potential Ricciardo/McLaren agreement: McLaren are a customer team. Mercedes and Ferrari are both works teams. If Ricciardo wants the best chance at replicating Hamilton and Schumacher then he should be looking at Enstone and disregarding McLaren's advances.

It's a valid point, sadly. I said last year when McLaren were in the process of leaving Honda that I thought this could be the start of the road to perennial mediocrity for the team and I still worry that this will be the case. McLaren are better resourced than most, but they still lag behind the big manufacturers

Lojik · Post by **Lojik** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:34 am

Maybe if McLaren throw in a few chocolate bars they could temp Ricciardo

Beleriand_K · Post by **Beleriand_K** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:19 pm

Lojik wrote:Maybe if McLaren throw in a few chocolate bars they could temp Ricciardo

They are out of Freddos after each employee was awarded one bar worth 25p for finishing the Spain upgrade in time:

“For example, we were given two weeks to produce the Spain upgrade package in May. We all worked 24/7 to meet the deadline. We got it done in time. So a week later a Freddo was handed out to all staff involved as “a bonus”."

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:45 pm

paulsf1fix wrote:It's being reported that Ferrari are or could promote Charles Leclerc to replace Kimi Raikkonen for 2019, this is being reported by Autosport. Last time they did this report in which they list 'Autosport has learned' it was about Red Bull going with the Honda engines. So if this happens I wonder if they (Ferrari) promote either Danil Kvyat or Antonio Giovinazzi to Sauber for 2019. Interesting....

They will put Giovinazzi in the Sauber to replace Leclerc, that kind of solves a problem for Ferrari as they were wanting to find Giovinazzi a F1 berth.

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:55 pm

mikeyg123 wrote:I want Ricciardo to go just because it will start a bit of a chain reaction with drivers switching seats. Everything has become too static in the driver market. I wouldn't be surprised to see even Grosjean retained at Haas.

Yes Haas have already said that they are going to retain Grosjean.

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:56 pm

Llotyhy wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:I want Ricciardo to go just because it will start a bit of a chain reaction with drivers switching seats. Everything has become too static in the driver market. I wouldn't be surprised to see even Grosjean retained at Haas.
We probably won't need Ricciardo for that. With Raikkonen quitting and Alonso looking like going to Indycar we might get that after all. I really wouldn't rule out the Ricciardo to McLaren story either. I think it would be a great opportunity for him to be lead driver in a big team/organization and he would get the salary that fits that. Reports say that if McLaren can't get Ricciardo they'll try to go for Sainz, I don't know if that's true, but it looks like they want an experienced driver. I think this silly season is far from over.

I'm surprised Sainz's stock is still that high given that the Hulk is beating him.

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:59 pm

Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Llotyhy wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:I want Ricciardo to go just because it will start a bit of a chain reaction with drivers switching seats. Everything has become too static in the driver market. I wouldn't be surprised to see even Grosjean retained at Haas.

We probably won't need Ricciardo for that. With Raikkonen quitting and Alonso looking like going to Indycar we might get that after all. I really wouldn't rule out the Ricciardo to McLaren story either. I think it would be a great opportunity for him to be lead driver in a big team/organization and he would get the salary that fits that. Reports say that if McLaren can't get Ricciardo they'll try to go for Sainz, I don't know if that's true, but it looks like they want an experienced driver. I think this silly season is far from over.
BIB: I'd tend to agree with Mikey. If they both promote from within then it won't set off a chain reaction at all as the only seat that would then need filling is Leclerc's at Sauber, which I'd bet my house on Giovinazzi taking.

However, Ricciardo to Ferrari would open up a seat at Red Bull which Sainz would take, so that's not too exciting, but all of a sudden there would be a seat available at Renault. My guess is they would immediately turn their attention to Fernando Alonso, who right now would surely be more interested in racing for the quicker team (with whom he has very positive memories) than McLaren with whom his memories are largely negative. Failing that I suspect they would try and prise Ocon away from Mercedes, and if they couldn't get him they'd attempt to reunite the Hulkenberg/Perez partnership. If they got Alonso then Norris takes that seat, but if they got one of the Force India drivers then you've got FI looking for a driver. Perhaps George Russell if it is Ocon who moves to Renault, or Lance Stroll if they lost Perez (and the considerable Mexican backing that comes with him). One of the Haas drivers might be available in that scenario (as Leclerc wouldn't have moved to Ferrari but instead could be 'promoted' to Haas) so there would be a more experienced option if they fancied it. And then Giovinazzi takes the seat at Sauber.

Ricciardo to Mercedes... depends who he replaces. If it were Hamilton leaving F1 then all of the above would apply. If it were Bottas then I'd imagine Ricciardo > Mercedes, Sainz > Red Bull, Bottas > Renault, which is a shake-up but nowhere near as big.

If Sainz leaves Renault they are said to be interested in Vandoorne.