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Zoue wrote:

Invade wrote:

KingVoid wrote:Complete domination by Mercedes today. Ferrari has never had that kind of advantage this season in any race.

You can change your points system. Not every 10>9 is the same.

I think Mercedes were unquestionably much better this weekend, though. Perhaps not dominant in qualifying, but untouchable in the race

F1_Ernie wrote:The change of tyres is only for another 2 grand prixs? Pirelli need to leave F1, they are awful.

“Aggressive” tyres will make Spanish GP a break from the norm – Pirelli

The norm being a 1 stop strategy, if you don't get a safety car or rain then the racing is rubbish. Can't have the majority of grand prixs doing 1 stops.

davidheath461 wrote:

F1_Ernie wrote:The change of tyres is only for another 2 grand prixs? Pirelli need to leave F1, they are awful.

“Aggressive” tyres will make Spanish GP a break from the norm – Pirelli

The norm being a 1 stop strategy, if you don't get a safety car or rain then the racing is rubbish. Can't have the majority of grand prixs doing 1 stops.

Bring back the blistering tyres from the early 2000's - those Spanish Grand Prix were much better than the borefest we saw today.

mikeyg123 wrote:

davidheath461 wrote:

F1_Ernie wrote:The change of tyres is only for another 2 grand prixs? Pirelli need to leave F1, they are awful.

“Aggressive” tyres will make Spanish GP a break from the norm – Pirelli

The norm being a 1 stop strategy, if you don't get a safety car or rain then the racing is rubbish. Can't have the majority of grand prixs doing 1 stops.

Bring back the blistering tyres from the early 2000's - those Spanish Grand Prix were much better than the borefest we saw today.

Most races in the early 00s were one stops.

davidheath461 wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

davidheath461 wrote:

F1_Ernie wrote:The change of tyres is only for another 2 grand prixs? Pirelli need to leave F1, they are awful.

“Aggressive” tyres will make Spanish GP a break from the norm – Pirelli

The norm being a 1 stop strategy, if you don't get a safety car or rain then the racing is rubbish. Can't have the majority of grand prixs doing 1 stops.

Bring back the blistering tyres from the early 2000's - those Spanish Grand Prix were much better than the borefest we saw today.

Most races in the early 00s were one stops.

Apologies, i meant 2010s.

ynot22 wrote:Yep. Pirelli just handed the championship to Mercedes. While other teams designed their or the tire compounds and thicknesses speced, Mercedes got Pirelli to change it to suit their car. The only competitive season in half a decade just got gifted to them.
Fell asleep after the safety car and didn’t miss a thing. Such is the state of F1 again. Thanks Pirelli

mikeyg123 wrote:

davidheath461 wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

davidheath461 wrote:

F1_Ernie wrote:The change of tyres is only for another 2 grand prixs? Pirelli need to leave F1, they are awful.

“Aggressive” tyres will make Spanish GP a break from the norm – Pirelli

The norm being a 1 stop strategy, if you don't get a safety car or rain then the racing is rubbish. Can't have the majority of grand prixs doing 1 stops.

Bring back the blistering tyres from the early 2000's - those Spanish Grand Prix were much better than the borefest we saw today.

Most races in the early 00s were one stops.

Apologies, i meant 2010s.

But then we had drivers driving round literally seconds slower per lap than they could because 2 quick laps would burn the tyres out. That's really not a desirable scenario either. Maybe more on track action but not any actual racing.

ynot22 wrote:Yep. Pirelli just handed the championship to Mercedes. While other teams designed their cars for the tire compounds and thicknesses speced, Mercedes got Pirelli to change it to suit their car. The only competitive season in half a decade just got gifted to them.
Fell asleep after the safety car and didn’t miss a thing. Such is the state of F1 again. Thanks Pirelli

ynot22 wrote:Yep. Pirelli just handed the championship to Mercedes. While other teams designed their cars for the tire compounds and thicknesses speced, Mercedes got Pirelli to change it to suit their car. The only competitive season in half a decade just got gifted to them.
Fell asleep after the safety car and didn’t miss a thing. Such is the state of F1 again. Thanks Pirelli

Lojik wrote:

ynot22 wrote:Yep. Pirelli just handed the championship to Mercedes. While other teams designed their cars for the tire compounds and thicknesses speced, Mercedes got Pirelli to change it to suit their car. The only competitive season in half a decade just got gifted to them.
Fell asleep after the safety car and didn’t miss a thing. Such is the state of F1 again. Thanks Pirelli

It's my understanding that the tires are only being changed for more abrasive circuits, Barcelona, Silverstone & Paul Ricard. Don't know if any others but certainly not for every track.

Having said that, if I were to mark Pirelli out of 10 for their time in F1, I would give them a 3 or 4. I think they have generally been terrible.

sandman1347 wrote:Okay, so now that we've had a moment to let this last race sink in, let's take a look at this bizarre season to date:

1. Australia-Hamilton sets pole with ease and, while Bottas did not complete a lap in Q3 and had to start 10th, he was close enough to Hamilton in Q2 that we can assume he would have been pretty quick in Q3 as well. Ferrari were well off the pace in Q3 though it must be said that they did not improve their lap times on their second runs. In the race, Hamilton was also fastest by a good margin. If not for the VSC, it would have been a comfortable win for him. So at this stage, Mercedes looked to be the dominant team.

2. Bahrain-A grid penalty for Hamilton really hurt his weekend but the Ferraris were easily the quickest in qualifying anyway; locking out the front row. During the race, Vettel seemed to have better pace than Bottas during the first stint, however, his tires did seem to go off first. Ferrari pulled a clever strategic stroke to switch Vettel to a 1-stopper and hold off Bottas at the end. Overall, Ferrari seemed quicker here but Mercedes seemed to have better tire life.

3. China-This was a race where Ferrari again seemed easily to be the quickest. This time, their advantage went beyond Saturday and they were fastest during the race as well. They were caught napping with Bottas undercutting Vettel and they were unlucky with the safety car but they were, again, fastest. Hamilton seemed completely lost this weekend and was struggling in ways that we've never seen at that circuit.

4. Baku-Again, Ferrari seemed to have the pace advantage. Vettel took a comfortable pole and Raikkonen was actually quicker through two sectors in qualifying only to throw it away in the final sector. During the race, Vettel seemed comfortably fastest over the first stint but tire life and safety car periods came back into play and Ferrari lost out again. The pattern of Ferrari being quicker continued but the pattern of Mercedes getting better tire life also continued quietly.

5. Spain-Qualifying here was bizarre. In Q2, all 4 Ferrari and Mercedes drivers used the soft tires and the Ferraris were quicker. In Q3, the Mercs switched to SS tires and fired in the quickest laps of the weekend while the Ferrari drivers both had off-track excursions on their first hot laps with SS tires and eventually logged their times on the softs. Mercedes took pole but there was some question of which car had the absolute pace advantage as it seemed more like Ferrari just couldn't get the SS tires to work for them. During the race, the track temps were much lower and the Mercs seemed to have pace in hand over the Ferraris much the way they did in Australia. they also showed greater tire life yet again as Vettel had to do a second stop while both Hamilton and Bottas made it a one-stop race.

Overall trends after 5 races:
1. The Ferraris seem to be better relative to Mercedes on power circuits, China, Bahrain and Baku are all power circuits and the Ferraris seemed to have the edge there. They consistently have the higher top-speed and they seem to thrive in high-speed sectors.
2. The Mercedes seem to be better relative to Ferrari on twisty, corner-heavy tracks. Australia and Barcelona are both dominated by corners, difficult to pass on and very twisty. The Mercs seem to be the car for those conditions this year (which is a role-reversal from a year ago).
3. The Mercs seem to get better life out of the tires this year. They have had better stint length and durability all year. This gives them some added flexibility.
4. There doesn't seem to be a particular qualifying edge in the sense that neither car performs much better in qualifying than in the race. As such, qualifying can be a much more reliable predictor of race pace this year between these two teams.

Lotus49 wrote:Spain

Merc>Ferrari>Red Bull

Zoue wrote:

Lotus49 wrote:Spain

Merc>Ferrari>Red Bull

In qualifying maybe, but in the race? Max was putting in competitive times even with a damaged car. Are we sure Vettel could have gone quicker than him?

Lotus49 wrote:

Zoue wrote:

Lotus49 wrote:Spain

Merc>Ferrari>Red Bull

In qualifying maybe, but in the race? Max was putting in competitive times even with a damaged car. Are we sure Vettel could have gone quicker than him?

I think following another car around here is murder tbh. Maybe they had too much tyre wear on the Ferrari to be 2nd quickest but overall including qualifying ahead advantage and Seb's first stint I'd go Ferrari.

davidheath461 wrote:

sandman1347 wrote:Okay, so now that we've had a moment to let this last race sink in, let's take a look at this bizarre season to date:

1. Australia-Hamilton sets pole with ease and, while Bottas did not complete a lap in Q3 and had to start 10th, he was close enough to Hamilton in Q2 that we can assume he would have been pretty quick in Q3 as well. Ferrari were well off the pace in Q3 though it must be said that they did not improve their lap times on their second runs. In the race, Hamilton was also fastest by a good margin. If not for the VSC, it would have been a comfortable win for him. So at this stage, Mercedes looked to be the dominant team.

2. Bahrain-A grid penalty for Hamilton really hurt his weekend but the Ferraris were easily the quickest in qualifying anyway; locking out the front row. During the race, Vettel seemed to have better pace than Bottas during the first stint, however, his tires did seem to go off first. Ferrari pulled a clever strategic stroke to switch Vettel to a 1-stopper and hold off Bottas at the end. Overall, Ferrari seemed quicker here but Mercedes seemed to have better tire life.

3. China-This was a race where Ferrari again seemed easily to be the quickest. This time, their advantage went beyond Saturday and they were fastest during the race as well. They were caught napping with Bottas undercutting Vettel and they were unlucky with the safety car but they were, again, fastest. Hamilton seemed completely lost this weekend and was struggling in ways that we've never seen at that circuit.

4. Baku-Again, Ferrari seemed to have the pace advantage. Vettel took a comfortable pole and Raikkonen was actually quicker through two sectors in qualifying only to throw it away in the final sector. During the race, Vettel seemed comfortably fastest over the first stint but tire life and safety car periods came back into play and Ferrari lost out again. The pattern of Ferrari being quicker continued but the pattern of Mercedes getting better tire life also continued quietly.

5. Spain-Qualifying here was bizarre. In Q2, all 4 Ferrari and Mercedes drivers used the soft tires and the Ferraris were quicker. In Q3, the Mercs switched to SS tires and fired in the quickest laps of the weekend while the Ferrari drivers both had off-track excursions on their first hot laps with SS tires and eventually logged their times on the softs. Mercedes took pole but there was some question of which car had the absolute pace advantage as it seemed more like Ferrari just couldn't get the SS tires to work for them. During the race, the track temps were much lower and the Mercs seemed to have pace in hand over the Ferraris much the way they did in Australia. they also showed greater tire life yet again as Vettel had to do a second stop while both Hamilton and Bottas made it a one-stop race.

Overall trends after 5 races:
1. The Ferraris seem to be better relative to Mercedes on power circuits, China, Bahrain and Baku are all power circuits and the Ferraris seemed to have the edge there. They consistently have the higher top-speed and they seem to thrive in high-speed sectors.
2. The Mercedes seem to be better relative to Ferrari on twisty, corner-heavy tracks. Australia and Barcelona are both dominated by corners, difficult to pass on and very twisty. The Mercs seem to be the car for those conditions this year (which is a role-reversal from a year ago).
3. The Mercs seem to get better life out of the tires this year. They have had better stint length and durability all year. This gives them some added flexibility.
4. There doesn't seem to be a particular qualifying edge in the sense that neither car performs much better in qualifying than in the race. As such, qualifying can be a much more reliable predictor of race pace this year between these two teams.

Good summary.

Alot of pundits predicting Mercedes to be 3rd quickest at Monaco (seemingly based on last year) but seems like they might have a good chance there.

Zoue wrote:

Lotus49 wrote:

Zoue wrote:

Lotus49 wrote:Spain

Merc>Ferrari>Red Bull

In qualifying maybe, but in the race? Max was putting in competitive times even with a damaged car. Are we sure Vettel could have gone quicker than him?

I think following another car around here is murder tbh. Maybe they had too much tyre wear on the Ferrari to be 2nd quickest but overall including qualifying ahead advantage and Seb's first stint I'd go Ferrari.

yeah I do think that without the VSC Vettel would have stayed ahead of Max, so completely agree that the qualifying advantage made them the better car to have this weekend. Just not completely convinced they had better race pace. I don't think they could get anywhere near Ricciardo's times

F1_Ernie wrote:I'm sure I saw Ricciardo was 20 seconds behind Verstappen at one point, did this actually happen and how?

Lotus49 wrote:

Zoue wrote:

Lotus49 wrote:

Zoue wrote:

Lotus49 wrote:Spain

Merc>Ferrari>Red Bull

In qualifying maybe, but in the race? Max was putting in competitive times even with a damaged car. Are we sure Vettel could have gone quicker than him?

I think following another car around here is murder tbh. Maybe they had too much tyre wear on the Ferrari to be 2nd quickest but overall including qualifying ahead advantage and Seb's first stint I'd go Ferrari.

yeah I do think that without the VSC Vettel would have stayed ahead of Max, so completely agree that the qualifying advantage made them the better car to have this weekend. Just not completely convinced they had better race pace. I don't think they could get anywhere near Ricciardo's times

Maybe yeah but Dan was messing about a bit though I think. Doing what Alonso got caned for doing, basically saving up ers and fuel for a couple of laps and then going all out.

I don't buy his it was just on a knife edge talk for that part of the race anyway, I think he was going for the FL.

Tbh the tyres were so weird here it's hard to be confident on anything though, I've never seen the softest tyre completely abandoned en masse before. Bonkers.

Zoue wrote:

F1_Ernie wrote:I'm sure I saw Ricciardo was 20 seconds behind Verstappen at one point, did this actually happen and how?

spun at T10 shortly after the restart. Here they said he lost around 12s

AnRs wrote:That Merc was a beast this weekend, lot's of conspiracy theories around the Pirellis, Merc looks unbeatable again

mikeyg123 wrote:

davidheath461 wrote:

F1_Ernie wrote:The change of tyres is only for another 2 grand prixs? Pirelli need to leave F1, they are awful.

“Aggressive” tyres will make Spanish GP a break from the norm – Pirelli

The norm being a 1 stop strategy, if you don't get a safety car or rain then the racing is rubbish. Can't have the majority of grand prixs doing 1 stops.

Bring back the blistering tyres from the early 2000's - those Spanish Grand Prix were much better than the borefest we saw today.

Most races in the early 00s were one stops.

ynot22 wrote:Yep. Pirelli just handed the championship to Mercedes. While other teams designed their cars for the tire compounds and thicknesses speced, Mercedes got Pirelli to change it to suit their car. The only competitive season in half a decade just got gifted to them.
Fell asleep after the safety car and didn’t miss a thing. Such is the state of F1 again. Thanks Pirelli

Johnson wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

davidheath461 wrote:

F1_Ernie wrote:The change of tyres is only for another 2 grand prixs? Pirelli need to leave F1, they are awful.

“Aggressive” tyres will make Spanish GP a break from the norm – Pirelli

The norm being a 1 stop strategy, if you don't get a safety car or rain then the racing is rubbish. Can't have the majority of grand prixs doing 1 stops.

Bring back the blistering tyres from the early 2000's - those Spanish Grand Prix were much better than the borefest we saw today.

Most races in the early 00s were one stops.

Were they? I don't remember that. With refueling, it moves it much more toward 2 stops as you are carrying all that weight when you don't need too. I barely remember any one stoppers during the refuel era unless a fast car was way down the grid and had to try something different.

Johnson wrote:

ynot22 wrote:Yep. Pirelli just handed the championship to Mercedes. While other teams designed their cars for the tire compounds and thicknesses speced, Mercedes got Pirelli to change it to suit their car. The only competitive season in half a decade just got gifted to them.
Fell asleep after the safety car and didn’t miss a thing. Such is the state of F1 again. Thanks Pirelli

The tyres will be the same as before for 14 of the last 16 races

KingVoid wrote:

Johnson wrote:

ynot22 wrote:Yep. Pirelli just handed the championship to Mercedes. While other teams designed their cars for the tire compounds and thicknesses speced, Mercedes got Pirelli to change it to suit their car. The only competitive season in half a decade just got gifted to them.
Fell asleep after the safety car and didn’t miss a thing. Such is the state of F1 again. Thanks Pirelli

The tyres will be the same as before for 14 of the last 16 races

That is still an undeserved advantage for Mercedes in 3 races, which could be crucial at the end of the season.

If today is anything to go by, Hamilton will win easily in Britain and France.

mikeyg123 wrote:

KingVoid wrote:

Johnson wrote:

ynot22 wrote:Yep. Pirelli just handed the championship to Mercedes. While other teams designed their cars for the tire compounds and thicknesses speced, Mercedes got Pirelli to change it to suit their car. The only competitive season in half a decade just got gifted to them.
Fell asleep after the safety car and didn’t miss a thing. Such is the state of F1 again. Thanks Pirelli

The tyres will be the same as before for 14 of the last 16 races

That is still an undeserved advantage for Mercedes in 3 races, which could be crucial at the end of the season.

If today is anything to go by, Hamilton will win easily in Britain and France.

Except it's not true. Many teams experienced blistering in the pre season test which brought about the change. There was concerns that with the blistering so bad in freezing temperature's had it been a warm sunny day then the compound would't have lasted a lap. Why would Pirelli do anything at the behest of Mercedes?

KingVoid wrote:There is also no doubt that if a tyre change by Pirelli made Ferrari 1 second/lap faster the media outrage would have been much greater.

KingVoid wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

KingVoid wrote:

Johnson wrote:

ynot22 wrote:Yep. Pirelli just handed the championship to Mercedes. While other teams designed their cars for the tire compounds and thicknesses speced, Mercedes got Pirelli to change it to suit their car. The only competitive season in half a decade just got gifted to them.
Fell asleep after the safety car and didn’t miss a thing. Such is the state of F1 again. Thanks Pirelli

The tyres will be the same as before for 14 of the last 16 races

That is still an undeserved advantage for Mercedes in 3 races, which could be crucial at the end of the season.

If today is anything to go by, Hamilton will win easily in Britain and France.

Except it's not true. Many teams experienced blistering in the pre season test which brought about the change. There was concerns that with the blistering so bad in freezing temperature's had it been a warm sunny day then the compound would't have lasted a lap. Why would Pirelli do anything at the behest of Mercedes?

The race simulations in testing suggested that they could have easily done the race on a two stop. Pirelli were aiming to make the majority of races this year two stop. There’s nothing today that suggested the normal compound tyres would have struggled with completing the race in a two stop.

Several teams have blisters during testing, but Mercedes was definitely the most vocal and kept showing off their blisters to manipulate Pirelli.

mikeyg123 wrote:

KingVoid wrote:There is also no doubt that if a tyre change by Pirelli made Ferrari 1 second/lap faster the media outrage would have been much greater.

Mercedes were also by far the quickest around Barcelona in winter testing. I think it's far more likely that the car just suits the track rather than some kind of Merc/Pirelli conspiracy.

KingVoid wrote:

Johnson wrote:

ynot22 wrote:Yep. Pirelli just handed the championship to Mercedes. While other teams designed their cars for the tire compounds and thicknesses speced, Mercedes got Pirelli to change it to suit their car. The only competitive season in half a decade just got gifted to them.
Fell asleep after the safety car and didn’t miss a thing. Such is the state of F1 again. Thanks Pirelli

The tyres will be the same as before for 14 of the last 16 races

That is still an undeserved advantage for Mercedes in 3 races, which could be crucial at the end of the season.

If today is anything to go by, Hamilton will win easily in Britain and France.

sandman1347 wrote:

KingVoid wrote:

Johnson wrote:

ynot22 wrote:Yep. Pirelli just handed the championship to Mercedes. While other teams designed their cars for the tire compounds and thicknesses speced, Mercedes got Pirelli to change it to suit their car. The only competitive season in half a decade just got gifted to them.
Fell asleep after the safety car and didn’t miss a thing. Such is the state of F1 again. Thanks Pirelli

The tyres will be the same as before for 14 of the last 16 races

That is still an undeserved advantage for Mercedes in 3 races, which could be crucial at the end of the season.

If today is anything to go by, Hamilton will win easily in Britain and France.

You're not even acknowledging the actual reasons for the tire modifications. You are also ignoring the fact that Red Bull didn't lose anything to Mercedes and the rest of the field didn't experience a wild swing in performance either. The fact that Ferrari struggled to adapt is not Mercedes' fault. It's clear the tire change benefited them relative to Ferrari but can you honestly say that it's not more down to Ferrari struggling rather than Mercedes doing particularly well?