[Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

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UnlikeUday
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by UnlikeUday »

JN23 wrote:Not sure many saw Hamilton pole and win this weekend or a Hamilton win last weekend. So who wants to predict Russia?


If Honda's Spec 3 engine (to be introduced at the back of Toro Rosso) which should be 35hp more powerful bear fruitation, Renault would be dead last in terms of power output. All this would bode well for Red Bull come 2019.
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by F1_Ernie »

KingVoid wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:https://www.motorsportweek.com/news/id/19942

An article regarding how many points Vettel has lost, he defiantly should be leading this title race.

Fantasy standings: Vettel 310, Hamilton 257
Real standings: Vettel 241, Hamilton 281

This fantasy scenario is really the best possible scenario that could have ever happened for Vettel. I have no idea how on earth did they came to the conclusion that Raikkonen would have kept Hamilton behind him in Monza if Vettel was leading.


Vettel should be leading the championship, most of it is spot on. Well Monza was Ferraris fault, if Kimi doesn't push too long and too hard on a heavier full load then he doesn't ruin his tyres. Maybe they mean Kimi wouldn't have been asked to do that because the race win would have been secure with Vettel, the race could have played out differently which means Bottas might not have been used as a wingman and then Kimi's tyres don't get ruined for the second time.
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by pokerman »

Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:I need to revisit the posts before I comment further.

Regarding Hughes if he's seen as a flawed source then he shouldn't be used to validate posts.

I. Didn't. Use. Him.

You've used him in the past to validate your opinion.

I've used him in the past to counter other "expert" opinion, to demonstrate that even the experts don't always agree on things.

Anyway, highlighting somebody else's opinion doesn't mean that a position is uncontestable: it just means that you're not a lone voice. Sometimes you agree, sometimes you don't. It's silly to suggest that if you ever disagree with someone you can't echo their opinion under different circumstances.

But all this is going off tangent. Somebody else used Mark's opinion this time, but you seem to be using that to have a go at me? It goes back to what I said a few posts up that you appear to just be looking to make an argument? I don't see how my quoting Mark in the past has any bearing on whether I may contest what he says now.

If sources are seen as unreliable then they have no weight, sources are alright to back up what someone is saying but when they don't they are wrong, so any outside opinion has no more weight than the opinions put forward on here.
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by pokerman »

KingVoid wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:https://www.motorsportweek.com/news/id/19942

An article regarding how many points Vettel has lost, he defiantly should be leading this title race.

Fantasy standings: Vettel 310, Hamilton 257
Real standings: Vettel 241, Hamilton 281

This fantasy scenario is really the best possible scenario that could have ever happened for Vettel. I have no idea how on earth did they came to the conclusion that Raikkonen would have kept Hamilton behind him in Monza if Vettel was leading.

That's only 3 points though.
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by Zoue »

pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:I need to revisit the posts before I comment further.

Regarding Hughes if he's seen as a flawed source then he shouldn't be used to validate posts.

I. Didn't. Use. Him.

You've used him in the past to validate your opinion.

I've used him in the past to counter other "expert" opinion, to demonstrate that even the experts don't always agree on things.

Anyway, highlighting somebody else's opinion doesn't mean that a position is uncontestable: it just means that you're not a lone voice. Sometimes you agree, sometimes you don't. It's silly to suggest that if you ever disagree with someone you can't echo their opinion under different circumstances.

But all this is going off tangent. Somebody else used Mark's opinion this time, but you seem to be using that to have a go at me? It goes back to what I said a few posts up that you appear to just be looking to make an argument? I don't see how my quoting Mark in the past has any bearing on whether I may contest what he says now.

If sources are seen as unreliable then they have no weight, sources are alright to back up what someone is saying but when they don't they are wrong, so any outside opinion has no more weight than the opinions put forward on here.

It just means sources aren't infallible, that's all. Using someone to back up your point of view isn't exactly unusual, but that doesn't mean that the source then must be right every time. And sometimes Hughes writes with a lot of science to back him up, whereas other times he appears to be writing just an opinion piece. And when it comes to opinions I think his carries as much, or as little, weight as anyone else's.

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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by pokerman »

Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:You've used him in the past to validate your opinion.

I've used him in the past to counter other "expert" opinion, to demonstrate that even the experts don't always agree on things.

Anyway, highlighting somebody else's opinion doesn't mean that a position is uncontestable: it just means that you're not a lone voice. Sometimes you agree, sometimes you don't. It's silly to suggest that if you ever disagree with someone you can't echo their opinion under different circumstances.

But all this is going off tangent. Somebody else used Mark's opinion this time, but you seem to be using that to have a go at me? It goes back to what I said a few posts up that you appear to just be looking to make an argument? I don't see how my quoting Mark in the past has any bearing on whether I may contest what he says now.

If sources are seen as unreliable then they have no weight, sources are alright to back up what someone is saying but when they don't they are wrong, so any outside opinion has no more weight than the opinions put forward on here.

It just means sources aren't infallible, that's all. Using someone to back up your point of view isn't exactly unusual, but that doesn't mean that the source then must be right every time. And sometimes Hughes writes with a lot of science to back him up, whereas other times he appears to be writing just an opinion piece. And when it comes to opinions I think his carries as much, or as little, weight as anyone else's.

No sometimes he writes with a lot of science you agree with and sometimes he writes with a lot of science that you dismiss as just his flawed opinion because it disagrees with your own opinion.

Do you think that you have more science in your opinions than Mark Hughes?

As a stand alone thing you have every right to disagree with him but then going forward that kind of invalidates him as a source to back up your own opinions.
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by Zoue »

pokerman wrote:No sometimes he writes with a lot of science you agree with and sometimes he writes with a lot of science that you dismiss as just his flawed opinion because it disagrees with your own opinion.

Do you think that you have more science in your opinions than Mark Hughes?

As a stand alone thing you have every right to disagree with him but then going forward that kind of invalidates him as a source to back up your own opinions.

I don't recall seeing much evidence of science in the aforementioned article?

I don't think I've ever been a particular champion of Mark Hughes, or ever claimed he was infallible, so I'm a bit nonplussed why you are being so tenacious on this. I repeat, it wasn't me that brought him up this time but you appear to feel that I in particular shouldn't be allowed to comment on a post where he is quoted? Perhaps you might want to explain why that is?

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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by pokerman »

Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:No sometimes he writes with a lot of science you agree with and sometimes he writes with a lot of science that you dismiss as just his flawed opinion because it disagrees with your own opinion.

Do you think that you have more science in your opinions than Mark Hughes?

As a stand alone thing you have every right to disagree with him but then going forward that kind of invalidates him as a source to back up your own opinions.

I don't recall seeing much evidence of science in the aforementioned article?

I don't think I've ever been a particular champion of Mark Hughes, or ever claimed he was infallible, so I'm a bit nonplussed why you are being so tenacious on this. I repeat, it wasn't me that brought him up this time but you appear to feel that I in particular shouldn't be allowed to comment on a post where he is quoted? Perhaps you might want to explain why that is?

You're not a particular champion of Mark Hughes but then will use an article of his article to validate your opinion.
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by Zoue »

pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:No sometimes he writes with a lot of science you agree with and sometimes he writes with a lot of science that you dismiss as just his flawed opinion because it disagrees with your own opinion.

Do you think that you have more science in your opinions than Mark Hughes?

As a stand alone thing you have every right to disagree with him but then going forward that kind of invalidates him as a source to back up your own opinions.

I don't recall seeing much evidence of science in the aforementioned article?

I don't think I've ever been a particular champion of Mark Hughes, or ever claimed he was infallible, so I'm a bit nonplussed why you are being so tenacious on this. I repeat, it wasn't me that brought him up this time but you appear to feel that I in particular shouldn't be allowed to comment on a post where he is quoted? Perhaps you might want to explain why that is?

You're not a particular champion of Mark Hughes but then will use an article of his article to validate your opinion.

an article of his article? :?

Look, I'm not the first person to either agree or disagree with a pundit. What exactly is the root of your problem here?

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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by pokerman »

Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:No sometimes he writes with a lot of science you agree with and sometimes he writes with a lot of science that you dismiss as just his flawed opinion because it disagrees with your own opinion.

Do you think that you have more science in your opinions than Mark Hughes?

As a stand alone thing you have every right to disagree with him but then going forward that kind of invalidates him as a source to back up your own opinions.

I don't recall seeing much evidence of science in the aforementioned article?

I don't think I've ever been a particular champion of Mark Hughes, or ever claimed he was infallible, so I'm a bit nonplussed why you are being so tenacious on this. I repeat, it wasn't me that brought him up this time but you appear to feel that I in particular shouldn't be allowed to comment on a post where he is quoted? Perhaps you might want to explain why that is?

You're not a particular champion of Mark Hughes but then will use an article of his article to validate your opinion.

an article of his article? :?

Look, I'm not the first person to either agree or disagree with a pundit. What exactly is the root of your problem here?

Typo, You're not a particular champion of Mark Hughes but then will use an article of his to validate your opinion.

My problem is you can't bring forward a guy as an expert witness when half the time you think he is wrong.
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by Siao7 »

pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:No sometimes he writes with a lot of science you agree with and sometimes he writes with a lot of science that you dismiss as just his flawed opinion because it disagrees with your own opinion.

Do you think that you have more science in your opinions than Mark Hughes?

As a stand alone thing you have every right to disagree with him but then going forward that kind of invalidates him as a source to back up your own opinions.

I don't recall seeing much evidence of science in the aforementioned article?

I don't think I've ever been a particular champion of Mark Hughes, or ever claimed he was infallible, so I'm a bit nonplussed why you are being so tenacious on this. I repeat, it wasn't me that brought him up this time but you appear to feel that I in particular shouldn't be allowed to comment on a post where he is quoted? Perhaps you might want to explain why that is?

You're not a particular champion of Mark Hughes but then will use an article of his article to validate your opinion.

an article of his article? :?

Look, I'm not the first person to either agree or disagree with a pundit. What exactly is the root of your problem here?

Typo, You're not a particular champion of Mark Hughes but then will use an article of his to validate your opinion.

My problem is you can't bring forward a guy as an expert witness when half the time you think he is wrong.


I find it funny that you would question someone else's sources when half your posts quote "rumours say" or "heard around the paddock" Poker. Kind of ironic

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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by AnRs »

Will Merc continue there form they will sweep The end off this season to, like they have done since 2014, well do e!

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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by Exediron »

AnRs wrote:Will Merc continue there form they will sweep The end off this season to, like they have done since 2014, well do e!

They didn't sweep the end of the season last year - Max won in Mexico.
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by Flash2k11 »

Siao7 wrote:I find it funny that you would question someone else's sources when half your posts quote "rumours say" or "heard around the paddock" Poker. Kind of ironic


To be fair, at least he does quantify quotes with those statements, a lot of the time people are quite happy to post some properly ropey rumours as if they were unarguable fact.
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Zoue
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by Zoue »

pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:No sometimes he writes with a lot of science you agree with and sometimes he writes with a lot of science that you dismiss as just his flawed opinion because it disagrees with your own opinion.

Do you think that you have more science in your opinions than Mark Hughes?

As a stand alone thing you have every right to disagree with him but then going forward that kind of invalidates him as a source to back up your own opinions.

I don't recall seeing much evidence of science in the aforementioned article?

I don't think I've ever been a particular champion of Mark Hughes, or ever claimed he was infallible, so I'm a bit nonplussed why you are being so tenacious on this. I repeat, it wasn't me that brought him up this time but you appear to feel that I in particular shouldn't be allowed to comment on a post where he is quoted? Perhaps you might want to explain why that is?

You're not a particular champion of Mark Hughes but then will use an article of his article to validate your opinion.

an article of his article? :?

Look, I'm not the first person to either agree or disagree with a pundit. What exactly is the root of your problem here?

Typo, You're not a particular champion of Mark Hughes but then will use an article of his to validate your opinion.

My problem is you can't bring forward a guy as an expert witness when half the time you think he is wrong.

We appear to be going around i circles. I didn't bring him forward as an expert witness. You're probably better off making such a comment when I actually do, wouldn't you say?

Siao7
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by Siao7 »

Flash2k11 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:I find it funny that you would question someone else's sources when half your posts quote "rumours say" or "heard around the paddock" Poker. Kind of ironic


To be fair, at least he does quantify quotes with those statements, a lot of the time people are quite happy to post some properly ropey rumours as if they were unarguable fact.


Normally yes Poker does. There were a few occasions like the Ferrari burning oil I think or Hamilton's contract that was repeatedly claimed without much evidence at that time. That's what I was referring to.

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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by pokerman »

Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:I don't recall seeing much evidence of science in the aforementioned article?

I don't think I've ever been a particular champion of Mark Hughes, or ever claimed he was infallible, so I'm a bit nonplussed why you are being so tenacious on this. I repeat, it wasn't me that brought him up this time but you appear to feel that I in particular shouldn't be allowed to comment on a post where he is quoted? Perhaps you might want to explain why that is?

You're not a particular champion of Mark Hughes but then will use an article of his article to validate your opinion.

an article of his article? :?

Look, I'm not the first person to either agree or disagree with a pundit. What exactly is the root of your problem here?

Typo, You're not a particular champion of Mark Hughes but then will use an article of his to validate your opinion.

My problem is you can't bring forward a guy as an expert witness when half the time you think he is wrong.


I find it funny that you would question someone else's sources when half your posts quote "rumours say" or "heard around the paddock" Poker. Kind of ironic

It wasn't me questioning Mark Hughes' article.
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by Invade »

Here's an interesting report from much earlier in the year from some dude who calls himself Mark Hughes...


Mark Hughes
F1 Expert

F1 2018: Analysing the Ferrari, Mercedes and Red Bull battle
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/32420 ... ull-battle

pokerman
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by pokerman »

Invade wrote:Here's an interesting report from much earlier in the year from some dude who calls himself Mark Hughes...


Mark Hughes
F1 Expert

F1 2018: Analysing the Ferrari, Mercedes and Red Bull battle
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/32420 ... ull-battle

Indeed and after Hamilton's lucky Baku win I started a thread about how I was wondering when Hamilton was going to win a race given the speed of the Ferrari.

After Australia the Ferrari was the stronger car and this was a stage of the season were Vettel could have mounted a considerable lead in the WDC, Hamilton got lucky during this period.

Mercedes had the odd race were they were quicker soon after this period but recently we are back to races that Ferrari should have won if not for the weather or Ferrari/Vettel mistakes.
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by AnRs »

pokerman wrote:
Invade wrote:Here's an interesting report from much earlier in the year from some dude who calls himself Mark Hughes...


Mark Hughes
F1 Expert

F1 2018: Analysing the Ferrari, Mercedes and Red Bull battle
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/32420 ... ull-battle

Indeed and after Hamilton's lucky Baku win I started a thread about how I was wondering when Hamilton was going to win a race given the speed of the Ferrari.

After Australia the Ferrari was the stronger car and this was a stage of the season were Vettel could have mounted a considerable lead in the WDC, Hamilton got lucky during this period.

Mercedes had the odd race were they were quicker soon after this period but recently we are back to races that Ferrari should have won if not for the weather or Ferrari/Vettel mistakes.


Simply not true.

pokerman
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by pokerman »

AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Invade wrote:Here's an interesting report from much earlier in the year from some dude who calls himself Mark Hughes...


Mark Hughes
F1 Expert

F1 2018: Analysing the Ferrari, Mercedes and Red Bull battle
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/32420 ... ull-battle

Indeed and after Hamilton's lucky Baku win I started a thread about how I was wondering when Hamilton was going to win a race given the speed of the Ferrari.

After Australia the Ferrari was the stronger car and this was a stage of the season were Vettel could have mounted a considerable lead in the WDC, Hamilton got lucky during this period.

Mercedes had the odd race were they were quicker soon after this period but recently we are back to races that Ferrari should have won if not for the weather or Ferrari/Vettel mistakes.


Simply not true.

Another one sentence reply with no explanation.
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by AnRs »

pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Invade wrote:Here's an interesting report from much earlier in the year from some dude who calls himself Mark Hughes...


Mark Hughes
F1 Expert

F1 2018: Analysing the Ferrari, Mercedes and Red Bull battle
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/32420 ... ull-battle

Indeed and after Hamilton's lucky Baku win I started a thread about how I was wondering when Hamilton was going to win a race given the speed of the Ferrari.

After Australia the Ferrari was the stronger car and this was a stage of the season were Vettel could have mounted a considerable lead in the WDC, Hamilton got lucky during this period.

Mercedes had the odd race were they were quicker soon after this period but recently we are back to races that Ferrari should have won if not for the weather or Ferrari/Vettel mistakes.


Simply not true.

Another one sentence reply with no explanation.


Explain how Vettel or Raikkonen had the speed to take on Hamilton in the Merc then.

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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by pokerman »

AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Invade wrote:Here's an interesting report from much earlier in the year from some dude who calls himself Mark Hughes...


Mark Hughes
F1 Expert

F1 2018: Analysing the Ferrari, Mercedes and Red Bull battle
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/32420 ... ull-battle

Indeed and after Hamilton's lucky Baku win I started a thread about how I was wondering when Hamilton was going to win a race given the speed of the Ferrari.

After Australia the Ferrari was the stronger car and this was a stage of the season were Vettel could have mounted a considerable lead in the WDC, Hamilton got lucky during this period.

Mercedes had the odd race were they were quicker soon after this period but recently we are back to races that Ferrari should have won if not for the weather or Ferrari/Vettel mistakes.


Simply not true.

Another one sentence reply with no explanation.


Explain how Vettel or Raikkonen had the speed to take on Hamilton in the Merc then.

Like you explain your posts?
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by AnRs »

pokerman wrote:
Like you explain your posts?


Which haven't I explained to you?

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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by pokerman »

AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Like you explain your posts?


Which haven't I explained to you?

What can you explain in one or two sentences?

Am I prepared to compose a post that's going to take me at least 30 minutes for your wordly wise one sentence reply?
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by AnRs »

pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Like you explain your posts?


Which haven't I explained to you?

What can you explain in one or two sentences?

Am I prepared to compose a post that's going to take me at least 30 minutes for your wordly wise one sentence reply?


If you have so much trouble explaining why Ferrari where faster than Merc in Singapore maybe that's a clue?

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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by pokerman »

AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Like you explain your posts?


Which haven't I explained to you?

What can you explain in one or two sentences?

Am I prepared to compose a post that's going to take me at least 30 minutes for your wordly wise one sentence reply?


If you have so much trouble explaining why Ferrari where faster than Merc in Singapore maybe that's a clue?

When did one race become races that Ferrari should have won?
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by AnRs »

pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Like you explain your posts?


Which haven't I explained to you?

What can you explain in one or two sentences?

Am I prepared to compose a post that's going to take me at least 30 minutes for your wordly wise one sentence reply?


If you have so much trouble explaining why Ferrari where faster than Merc in Singapore maybe that's a clue?

When did one race become races that Ferrari should have won?


You wrote "Mercedes had the odd race were they were quicker soon after this period but recently we are back to races that Ferrari should have won if not for the weather or Ferrari/Vettel mistakes."

pokerman
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by pokerman »

AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:Which haven't I explained to you?

What can you explain in one or two sentences?

Am I prepared to compose a post that's going to take me at least 30 minutes for your wordly wise one sentence reply?


If you have so much trouble explaining why Ferrari where faster than Merc in Singapore maybe that's a clue?

When did one race become races that Ferrari should have won?


You wrote "Mercedes had the odd race were they were quicker soon after this period but recently we are back to races that Ferrari should have won if not for the weather or Ferrari/Vettel mistakes."

Even in Singapore it's being questioned whether or not Ferrari dropped the ball, should Mark Hughes qualifying article get referenced again which I guess you didn't read even though it was featured on here?

You know Singapore is maybe a turning point for Mercedes but even then the previous 4 races Ferrari looked stronger.
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Zoue
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by Zoue »

pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:What can you explain in one or two sentences?

Am I prepared to compose a post that's going to take me at least 30 minutes for your wordly wise one sentence reply?


If you have so much trouble explaining why Ferrari where faster than Merc in Singapore maybe that's a clue?

When did one race become races that Ferrari should have won?


You wrote "Mercedes had the odd race were they were quicker soon after this period but recently we are back to races that Ferrari should have won if not for the weather or Ferrari/Vettel mistakes."

Even in Singapore it's being questioned whether or not Ferrari dropped the ball, should Mark Hughes qualifying article get referenced again which I guess you didn't read even though it was featured on here?

You know Singapore is maybe a turning point for Mercedes but even then the previous 4 races Ferrari looked stronger.

they didn't look faster in the race in Monza

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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by AnRs »

pokerman wrote:Even in Singapore it's being questioned whether or not Ferrari dropped the ball, should Mark Hughes qualifying article get referenced again which I guess you didn't read even though it was featured on here?

You know Singapore is maybe a turning point for Mercedes but even then the previous 4 races Ferrari looked stronger.


IMO Monza was the last turning point where Merc looks faster and Singapore sealed that.
I read Mark Hughes but IMO it's just an opinion.

So, IMO it's not like we are "back to races that Ferrari should have won if not for the weather or Ferrari/Vettel mistakes."

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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by Siao7 »

pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:You're not a particular champion of Mark Hughes but then will use an article of his article to validate your opinion.

an article of his article? :?

Look, I'm not the first person to either agree or disagree with a pundit. What exactly is the root of your problem here?

Typo, You're not a particular champion of Mark Hughes but then will use an article of his to validate your opinion.

My problem is you can't bring forward a guy as an expert witness when half the time you think he is wrong.


I find it funny that you would question someone else's sources when half your posts quote "rumours say" or "heard around the paddock" Poker. Kind of ironic

It wasn't me questioning Mark Hughes' article.


I didn't say you were

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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by Johnson »

We only have Kimi to judge Monza race pace. I can’t think of a race day Ferrari looked strong in if you use Kimi to judge them. Hamilton is beating him 10-1 when they both finished.

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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by Zoue »

Johnson wrote:We only have Kimi to judge Monza race pace. I can’t think of a race day Ferrari looked strong in if you use Kimi to judge them. Hamilton is beating him 10-1 when they both finished.
By the same token there is zero evidence to suggest the Ferrari was faster. In the race that just wasn't the case

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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by Flash2k11 »

Zoue wrote:
Johnson wrote:We only have Kimi to judge Monza race pace. I can’t think of a race day Ferrari looked strong in if you use Kimi to judge them. Hamilton is beating him 10-1 when they both finished.
By the same token there is zero evidence to suggest the Ferrari was faster. In the race that just wasn't the case


There is only no evidence because Vettel's car was damaged and ended up at the back of the field. Without him as a marker, you are comparing the number 1 driver to the number 2. While Bottas' race was almost certainly compromised by strategy, he still never looked like getting near Raikonnen all afternoon. With the hindsight of Singapore, it could well be a driver slump, but at the time, Kimi looking that strong was a decent indicator that the Ferrari was definately up there with the Mercedes, though its impossible to draw a definitive conclusion on the Sunday.
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by Zoue »

Flash2k11 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Johnson wrote:We only have Kimi to judge Monza race pace. I can’t think of a race day Ferrari looked strong in if you use Kimi to judge them. Hamilton is beating him 10-1 when they both finished.
By the same token there is zero evidence to suggest the Ferrari was faster. In the race that just wasn't the case


There is only no evidence because Vettel's car was damaged and ended up at the back of the field. Without him as a marker, you are comparing the number 1 driver to the number 2. While Bottas' race was almost certainly compromised by strategy, he still never looked like getting near Raikonnen all afternoon. With the hindsight of Singapore, it could well be a driver slump, but at the time, Kimi looking that strong was a decent indicator that the Ferrari was definately up there with the Mercedes, though its impossible to draw a definitive conclusion on the Sunday.

I don't really disagree with what you write hear, but it still means that we can't say the Ferrari was quicker at Monza, because there was no evidence of that. I'm basically disagreeing with the claim that the Ferrari looked faster these last four races because I don't think that claim may be made for Monza

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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by pokerman »

Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:If you have so much trouble explaining why Ferrari where faster than Merc in Singapore maybe that's a clue?

When did one race become races that Ferrari should have won?


You wrote "Mercedes had the odd race were they were quicker soon after this period but recently we are back to races that Ferrari should have won if not for the weather or Ferrari/Vettel mistakes."

Even in Singapore it's being questioned whether or not Ferrari dropped the ball, should Mark Hughes qualifying article get referenced again which I guess you didn't read even though it was featured on here?

You know Singapore is maybe a turning point for Mercedes but even then the previous 4 races Ferrari looked stronger.

they didn't look faster in the race in Monza

Faster in qualifying which last year was so, so important when determining the faster car, the faster Ferrari driver was basically out of the race after the second corner so we don't know the actual state of play, if the cars were equal in the race that still gives it to the superior qualifying of the Ferrari, again like I say playing by last years rules.
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by pokerman »

AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:Even in Singapore it's being questioned whether or not Ferrari dropped the ball, should Mark Hughes qualifying article get referenced again which I guess you didn't read even though it was featured on here?

You know Singapore is maybe a turning point for Mercedes but even then the previous 4 races Ferrari looked stronger.


IMO Monza was the last turning point where Merc looks faster and Singapore sealed that.
I read Mark Hughes but IMO it's just an opinion.

So, IMO it's not like we are "back to races that Ferrari should have won if not for the weather or Ferrari/Vettel mistakes."

How can the Mercs look faster in Monza when Ferrari locked out the front row and Vettel was basically out of the race after the second corner?

Monza is actually seen by some as a mistake by Vettel, a race he could have won, as for Singapore you may not believe Hughes but even Vettel is basically saying that Ferrari messed up in qualifying and all things being equal they could have been on pole, let's see what Sochi brings.
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by pokerman »

Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:an article of his article? :?

Look, I'm not the first person to either agree or disagree with a pundit. What exactly is the root of your problem here?

Typo, You're not a particular champion of Mark Hughes but then will use an article of his to validate your opinion.

My problem is you can't bring forward a guy as an expert witness when half the time you think he is wrong.


I find it funny that you would question someone else's sources when half your posts quote "rumours say" or "heard around the paddock" Poker. Kind of ironic

It wasn't me questioning Mark Hughes' article.


I didn't say you were

Yes you did, it's actually Zoue that's questioning the source, a source that himself has used in the past which was the actual point I was making.
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by pokerman »

Zoue wrote:
Johnson wrote:We only have Kimi to judge Monza race pace. I can’t think of a race day Ferrari looked strong in if you use Kimi to judge them. Hamilton is beating him 10-1 when they both finished.
By the same token there is zero evidence to suggest the Ferrari was faster. In the race that just wasn't the case

Also you can't judge that Mercedes was faster in the race.
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