[Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

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Covalent
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by Covalent »

pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Exediron wrote: I honestly do think most people consider the cars to be very close with a slight edge to Ferrari.

Does that make Lewis an underdog? Not really, no. See: very close, slight edge.
Not sure. I do think that there are a lot of people that do think that (myself included), but a lot of them also claim that Ferrari is clearly better, with AMUS and other data to prove.

I tend to agree with Covalent though, I try not to generalise what do people think too much. Just because a few people have been vocal one way or the other, doesn't represent all, most, few or whatever percentage one may feel to assign.

Maybe we should have a poll at the end of the year to get this over with.

Then again, it makes for a good debate!
There was a similar poll earlier in the year between Hamilton and Vettel which Hamilton won by a landslide so one poster accused the poll of being bias, Covalent has already said that he doesn't care that much what a few people might say in this thread.
I dare you to quote me on where I've said that.
Ah so you confused "most people thing the same way" with "I think most people in this thread think the same way".
So it was an outright lie.

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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by Covalent »

pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote: Maybe you need to read through the thread rather than joining at the 11th hour?
Ah so you confused "most people thing the same way" with "I think most people in this thread think the same way".
No which again shows quite clearly that you have not read the thread.
Why are you so obsessed with what I have read? Should I read through all the pages of whichever thread I'm taking part in? Where is this rule stated?
I'm tempted to say something untrue about Hamilton in the Kimi thread just so that you would have to read through all the hundreds of pages.
You would see what has been discussed and what relevant evidence has been brought forward.
Your claim was that "most people think the same way"; No matter how many times I read this thread over and over would prove that to be either true or false.

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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by BMWSauber84 »

I wonder if Red Bull may have been better off switching to Honda for 2018 rather than waiting. Points wise they possibly would not have been better off.

But longer term, a season of two cars running Honda engines would have allowed extra research and understanding to prepare for 2019.

Red Bull would still have been third in the constructors standings in 2018 albeit a bit further back. They'd probably still have won Monaco and Mexico.

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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

BMWSauber84 wrote:I wonder if Red Bull may have been better off switching to Honda for 2018 rather than waiting. Points wise they possibly would not have been better off.

But longer term, a season of two cars running Honda engines would have allowed extra research and understanding to prepare for 2019.

Red Bull would still have been third in the constructors standings in 2018 albeit a bit further back. They'd probably still have won Monaco and Mexico.
I believe they extended their contract for 2 years back in 2016, so next year was their next opportunity to leave Renault. Besides after the McLaren years I can fully understand wanting to trial them in a Toro Rosso.

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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by aice »

Just checked AMUS power rankings. Unsurprisingly, Ferrari ranked ahead of Mercedes in Mexico

Overall, AMUS scores 11--7 to Ferrari (with USA being a draw).

Vettel gives his views on the strength of the SF71H

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/25093/fe ... ettel.html
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by shoot999 »

*****!!!!! youtube F1 showing the 2008 Brazil race 'live'. about 55 laps to go

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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by pokerman »

Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote: Not sure. I do think that there are a lot of people that do think that (myself included), but a lot of them also claim that Ferrari is clearly better, with AMUS and other data to prove.

I tend to agree with Covalent though, I try not to generalise what do people think too much. Just because a few people have been vocal one way or the other, doesn't represent all, most, few or whatever percentage one may feel to assign.

Maybe we should have a poll at the end of the year to get this over with.

Then again, it makes for a good debate!
There was a similar poll earlier in the year between Hamilton and Vettel which Hamilton won by a landslide so one poster accused the poll of being bias, Covalent has already said that he doesn't care that much what a few people might say in this thread.
I dare you to quote me on where I've said that.
Ah so you confused "most people thing the same way" with "I think most people in this thread think the same way".
So it was an outright lie.
You said you don't care to read what people have said.
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by pokerman »

Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote: Ah so you confused "most people thing the same way" with "I think most people in this thread think the same way".
No which again shows quite clearly that you have not read the thread.
Why are you so obsessed with what I have read? Should I read through all the pages of whichever thread I'm taking part in? Where is this rule stated?
I'm tempted to say something untrue about Hamilton in the Kimi thread just so that you would have to read through all the hundreds of pages.
You would see what has been discussed and what relevant evidence has been brought forward.
Your claim was that "most people think the same way"; No matter how many times I read this thread over and over would prove that to be either true or false.
Even though you don't have the actual time to read the posts?
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by pokerman »

Black_Flag_11 wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:I wonder if Red Bull may have been better off switching to Honda for 2018 rather than waiting. Points wise they possibly would not have been better off.

But longer term, a season of two cars running Honda engines would have allowed extra research and understanding to prepare for 2019.

Red Bull would still have been third in the constructors standings in 2018 albeit a bit further back. They'd probably still have won Monaco and Mexico.
I believe they extended their contract for 2 years back in 2016, so next year was their next opportunity to leave Renault. Besides after the McLaren years I can fully understand wanting to trial them in a Toro Rosso.
Yeah they have been quite sensible how they have done it.
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by pokerman »

aice wrote:Just checked AMUS power rankings. Unsurprisingly, Ferrari ranked ahead of Mercedes in Mexico

Overall, AMUS scores 11--7 to Ferrari (with USA being a draw).

Vettel gives his views on the strength of the SF71H

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/25093/fe ... ettel.html
Yeah there's been a thread created for that, it looks like Vettel doesn't agree with AMuS?
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by Exediron »

pokerman wrote:You said you don't care to read what people have said.
Come on, this is getting ridiculous. He never said that. If you guys want to take this thread over with your argument, at least make it about something other than semantics. Most people or most people in this thread - who cares? At least talk about something with a point!
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by pokerman »

Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:You said you don't care to read what people have said.
Come on, this is getting ridiculous. He never said that. If you guys want to take this thread over with your argument, at least make it about something other than semantics. Most people or most people in this thread - who cares? At least talk about something with a point!
Point taken.

Edit: I've read through the posts and Covalent didn't say what I said he did so I apologise, just my poor take on him not having read previous posts and how I interpreted most people in this thread as being different to most people in general.
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by Covalent »

pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote: There was a similar poll earlier in the year between Hamilton and Vettel which Hamilton won by a landslide so one poster accused the poll of being bias, Covalent has already said that he doesn't care that much what a few people might say in this thread.
I dare you to quote me on where I've said that.
Ah so you confused "most people thing the same way" with "I think most people in this thread think the same way".
So it was an outright lie.
You said you don't care to read what people have said.
Again, please provide a quote.

Spoiler alert: He won't be able to find one.

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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by Covalent »

pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote: No which again shows quite clearly that you have not read the thread.
Why are you so obsessed with what I have read? Should I read through all the pages of whichever thread I'm taking part in? Where is this rule stated?
I'm tempted to say something untrue about Hamilton in the Kimi thread just so that you would have to read through all the hundreds of pages.
You would see what has been discussed and what relevant evidence has been brought forward.
Your claim was that "most people think the same way"; No matter how many times I read this thread over and over would prove that to be either true or false.
Even though you don't have the actual time to read the posts?
I'm sorry what exactly is the question?

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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by Covalent »

Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:You said you don't care to read what people have said.
Come on, this is getting ridiculous. He never said that. If you guys want to take this thread over with your argument, at least make it about something other than semantics. Most people or most people in this thread - who cares? At least talk about something with a point!
Yes it is getting quite ridiculous.

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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by Exediron »

pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:You said you don't care to read what people have said.
Come on, this is getting ridiculous. He never said that. If you guys want to take this thread over with your argument, at least make it about something other than semantics. Most people or most people in this thread - who cares? At least talk about something with a point!
Point taken.

Edit: I've read through the posts and Covalent didn't say what I said he did so I apologise, just my poor take on him not having read previous posts and how I interpreted most people in this thread as being different to most people in general.
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by Invade »

For Brazil I have the following:

Qualifying: Mercedes = Ferrari > Red Bull

Race: Red Bull > Mercedes = Ferrari

Race Weekend: Red Bull = Mercedes = Ferrari

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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by Pullrod »

Invade wrote:For Brazil I have the following:

Qualifying: Mercedes = Ferrari > Red Bull

Race: Red Bull > Mercedes = Ferrari

Race Weekend: Red Bull = Mercedes = Ferrari
No!

It is a fight between RB and Ferrari for the best car but in the last 2 races Mercedes has been absolutely out of it and is at this moment the 3rd best car.

As Hamilton said(about him and Alonso) this year RB car despite the reliability is a very very good car and would have been way higher in the standings if they(driver + team) didn't waste so many points at the beginning of the year.

No idea how Mercedes/Hamilton keep winning races(luck I know but still) with their shocking race pace and traction LOL. Their car is appaling at the moment.

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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by Exediron »

Pullrod wrote:
Invade wrote:For Brazil I have the following:

Qualifying: Mercedes = Ferrari > Red Bull

Race: Red Bull > Mercedes = Ferrari

Race Weekend: Red Bull = Mercedes = Ferrari
No!

It is a fight between RB and Ferrari for the best car but in the last 2 races Mercedes has been absolutely out of it and is at this moment the 3rd best car.

As Hamilton said(about him and Alonso) this year RB car despite the reliability is a very very good car and would have been way higher in the standings if they(driver + team) didn't waste so many points at the beginning of the year.

No idea how Mercedes/Hamilton keep winning races(luck I know but still) with their shocking race pace and traction LOL. Their car is appaling at the moment.
The Mercedes was much slower than the Ferrari in Mexico. None of that was on display yesterday in Brazil.

Personally, I would say that RBR had the best car on balance this weekend. A little bit off in qualifying, true, but they weren't just a little bit ahead in the race - they actually had the pace to pass both Mercedes and both Ferraris on track, and Max - with a damaged car - still reeled Hamilton right back in. The points are given out on Sunday, so a car that has the ability to win from fifth on the grid is the best car over a weekend.
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by F1_Ernie »

Invade wrote:For Brazil I have the following:

Qualifying: Mercedes = Ferrari > Red Bull

Race: Red Bull > Mercedes = Ferrari

Race Weekend: Red Bull = Mercedes = Ferrari
Ferrari was faster then Mercedes, Kimi was held up for around 30 laps behind Bottas and still finished under 5 seconds. Without Bottas holding up Kimi and Ricciardo I doubt Hamilton would have got a podium and he would have been fighting those cars which would have dealt more damage to the tyres. Hamilton needed clear air, Ferrari tyre choice and slow Bottas to help him out.
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by AnRs »

Qualy Merc -> Ferrari -> Red Bull
Race Red Bull -> Merc -> Ferrari

Might be a bit masked by Bottas once again doing his wingman job, but that's my opinion.
Merc have now won 75% off all races during the hybrid era and F1 pundits desperately try to tell that they're 3rd fastest now..

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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by Invade »

Exediron wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
Invade wrote:For Brazil I have the following:

Qualifying: Mercedes = Ferrari > Red Bull

Race: Red Bull > Mercedes = Ferrari

Race Weekend: Red Bull = Mercedes = Ferrari
No!

It is a fight between RB and Ferrari for the best car but in the last 2 races Mercedes has been absolutely out of it and is at this moment the 3rd best car.

As Hamilton said(about him and Alonso) this year RB car despite the reliability is a very very good car and would have been way higher in the standings if they(driver + team) didn't waste so many points at the beginning of the year.

No idea how Mercedes/Hamilton keep winning races(luck I know but still) with their shocking race pace and traction LOL. Their car is appaling at the moment.
The Mercedes was much slower than the Ferrari in Mexico. None of that was on display yesterday in Brazil.

Personally, I would say that RBR had the best car on balance this weekend. A little bit off in qualifying, true, but they weren't just a little bit ahead in the race - they actually had the pace to pass both Mercedes and both Ferraris on track, and Max - with a damaged car - still reeled Hamilton right back in. The points are given out on Sunday, so a car that has the ability to win from fifth on the grid is the best car over a weekend.
I forgot to take into account Max's floor damage, so yeah, Red Bull probably "was the car to have" over the weekend.

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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by sandman1347 »

Exediron wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
Invade wrote:For Brazil I have the following:

Qualifying: Mercedes = Ferrari > Red Bull

Race: Red Bull > Mercedes = Ferrari

Race Weekend: Red Bull = Mercedes = Ferrari
No!

It is a fight between RB and Ferrari for the best car but in the last 2 races Mercedes has been absolutely out of it and is at this moment the 3rd best car.

As Hamilton said(about him and Alonso) this year RB car despite the reliability is a very very good car and would have been way higher in the standings if they(driver + team) didn't waste so many points at the beginning of the year.

No idea how Mercedes/Hamilton keep winning races(luck I know but still) with their shocking race pace and traction LOL. Their car is appaling at the moment.
The Mercedes was much slower than the Ferrari in Mexico. None of that was on display yesterday in Brazil.

Personally, I would say that RBR had the best car on balance this weekend. A little bit off in qualifying, true, but they weren't just a little bit ahead in the race - they actually had the pace to pass both Mercedes and both Ferraris on track, and Max - with a damaged car - still reeled Hamilton right back in. The points are given out on Sunday, so a car that has the ability to win from fifth on the grid is the best car over a weekend.
I think you might have missed something. If not for Bottas holding up both Raikkonen and Vettel, Hamilton would have had both Ferraris and both Red Bulls breathing down his neck. The Red Bulls were easily faster than the Mercs and, judging by how easily Raikkonen left Bottas behind once he finally got past him and how easily he closed down Hamilton too, I think it's safe to say that the Ferrari was also quicker than the Mercedes.

Mercedes' race pace has vanished in the last few rounds. The high altitude and high track temperatures have really not suited them.

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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by F1_Ernie »

sandman1347 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
Invade wrote:For Brazil I have the following:

Qualifying: Mercedes = Ferrari > Red Bull

Race: Red Bull > Mercedes = Ferrari

Race Weekend: Red Bull = Mercedes = Ferrari
No!

It is a fight between RB and Ferrari for the best car but in the last 2 races Mercedes has been absolutely out of it and is at this moment the 3rd best car.

As Hamilton said(about him and Alonso) this year RB car despite the reliability is a very very good car and would have been way higher in the standings if they(driver + team) didn't waste so many points at the beginning of the year.

No idea how Mercedes/Hamilton keep winning races(luck I know but still) with their shocking race pace and traction LOL. Their car is appaling at the moment.
The Mercedes was much slower than the Ferrari in Mexico. None of that was on display yesterday in Brazil.

Personally, I would say that RBR had the best car on balance this weekend. A little bit off in qualifying, true, but they weren't just a little bit ahead in the race - they actually had the pace to pass both Mercedes and both Ferraris on track, and Max - with a damaged car - still reeled Hamilton right back in. The points are given out on Sunday, so a car that has the ability to win from fifth on the grid is the best car over a weekend.
I think you might have missed something. If not for Bottas holding up both Raikkonen and Vettel, Hamilton would have had both Ferraris and both Red Bulls breathing down his neck. The Red Bulls were easily faster than the Mercs and, judging by how easily Raikkonen left Bottas behind once he finally got past him and how easily he closed down Hamilton too, I think it's safe to say that the Ferrari was also quicker than the Mercedes.

Mercedes' race pace has vanished in the last few rounds. The high altitude and high track temperatures have really not suited them.
I'm sure Pirelli increased the psi again but i don't know if that made any difference. IMO Kimi and Ricciardo would have both finished ahead of Hamilton, take away the time lost behind Bottas plus 12lap and 20lap fresher tyres for both drivers and Hamilton would have needed to put more stress on the tyres to up his pace and defend.
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by pokerman »

F1_Ernie wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
Invade wrote:For Brazil I have the following:

Qualifying: Mercedes = Ferrari > Red Bull

Race: Red Bull > Mercedes = Ferrari

Race Weekend: Red Bull = Mercedes = Ferrari
No!

It is a fight between RB and Ferrari for the best car but in the last 2 races Mercedes has been absolutely out of it and is at this moment the 3rd best car.

As Hamilton said(about him and Alonso) this year RB car despite the reliability is a very very good car and would have been way higher in the standings if they(driver + team) didn't waste so many points at the beginning of the year.

No idea how Mercedes/Hamilton keep winning races(luck I know but still) with their shocking race pace and traction LOL. Their car is appaling at the moment.
The Mercedes was much slower than the Ferrari in Mexico. None of that was on display yesterday in Brazil.

Personally, I would say that RBR had the best car on balance this weekend. A little bit off in qualifying, true, but they weren't just a little bit ahead in the race - they actually had the pace to pass both Mercedes and both Ferraris on track, and Max - with a damaged car - still reeled Hamilton right back in. The points are given out on Sunday, so a car that has the ability to win from fifth on the grid is the best car over a weekend.
I think you might have missed something. If not for Bottas holding up both Raikkonen and Vettel, Hamilton would have had both Ferraris and both Red Bulls breathing down his neck. The Red Bulls were easily faster than the Mercs and, judging by how easily Raikkonen left Bottas behind once he finally got past him and how easily he closed down Hamilton too, I think it's safe to say that the Ferrari was also quicker than the Mercedes.

Mercedes' race pace has vanished in the last few rounds. The high altitude and high track temperatures have really not suited them.
I'm sure Pirelli increased the psi again but i don't know if that made any difference. IMO Kimi and Ricciardo would have both finished ahead of Hamilton, take away the time lost behind Bottas plus 12lap and 20lap fresher tyres for both drivers and Hamilton would have needed to put more stress on the tyres to up his pace and defend.
Paul di Resta said that it was ridiculous how high Pirelli are running the tyre pressures, the Mercs have no pace in the race because they are lunching the tyres.

The Merc and Ferrari were quite even in qualifying but Merc's tyre wear made it inferior in the race, the Ferrari's starting on the soft tyres was probably a mistake?
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by Covalent »

pokerman wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Pullrod wrote: No!

It is a fight between RB and Ferrari for the best car but in the last 2 races Mercedes has been absolutely out of it and is at this moment the 3rd best car.

As Hamilton said(about him and Alonso) this year RB car despite the reliability is a very very good car and would have been way higher in the standings if they(driver + team) didn't waste so many points at the beginning of the year.

No idea how Mercedes/Hamilton keep winning races(luck I know but still) with their shocking race pace and traction LOL. Their car is appaling at the moment.
The Mercedes was much slower than the Ferrari in Mexico. None of that was on display yesterday in Brazil.

Personally, I would say that RBR had the best car on balance this weekend. A little bit off in qualifying, true, but they weren't just a little bit ahead in the race - they actually had the pace to pass both Mercedes and both Ferraris on track, and Max - with a damaged car - still reeled Hamilton right back in. The points are given out on Sunday, so a car that has the ability to win from fifth on the grid is the best car over a weekend.
I think you might have missed something. If not for Bottas holding up both Raikkonen and Vettel, Hamilton would have had both Ferraris and both Red Bulls breathing down his neck. The Red Bulls were easily faster than the Mercs and, judging by how easily Raikkonen left Bottas behind once he finally got past him and how easily he closed down Hamilton too, I think it's safe to say that the Ferrari was also quicker than the Mercedes.

Mercedes' race pace has vanished in the last few rounds. The high altitude and high track temperatures have really not suited them.
I'm sure Pirelli increased the psi again but i don't know if that made any difference. IMO Kimi and Ricciardo would have both finished ahead of Hamilton, take away the time lost behind Bottas plus 12lap and 20lap fresher tyres for both drivers and Hamilton would have needed to put more stress on the tyres to up his pace and defend.
Paul di Resta said that it was ridiculous how high Pirelli are running the tyre pressures, the Mercs have no pace in the race because they are lunching the tyres.

The Merc and Ferrari were quite even in qualifying but Merc's tyre wear made it inferior in the race, the Ferrari's starting on the soft tyres was probably a mistake?
Good news for Merc fans is that apparently Pirelli will have the Merc-favoring tyres in all races next season.

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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by pokerman »

Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Exediron wrote: The Mercedes was much slower than the Ferrari in Mexico. None of that was on display yesterday in Brazil.

Personally, I would say that RBR had the best car on balance this weekend. A little bit off in qualifying, true, but they weren't just a little bit ahead in the race - they actually had the pace to pass both Mercedes and both Ferraris on track, and Max - with a damaged car - still reeled Hamilton right back in. The points are given out on Sunday, so a car that has the ability to win from fifth on the grid is the best car over a weekend.
I think you might have missed something. If not for Bottas holding up both Raikkonen and Vettel, Hamilton would have had both Ferraris and both Red Bulls breathing down his neck. The Red Bulls were easily faster than the Mercs and, judging by how easily Raikkonen left Bottas behind once he finally got past him and how easily he closed down Hamilton too, I think it's safe to say that the Ferrari was also quicker than the Mercedes.

Mercedes' race pace has vanished in the last few rounds. The high altitude and high track temperatures have really not suited them.
I'm sure Pirelli increased the psi again but i don't know if that made any difference. IMO Kimi and Ricciardo would have both finished ahead of Hamilton, take away the time lost behind Bottas plus 12lap and 20lap fresher tyres for both drivers and Hamilton would have needed to put more stress on the tyres to up his pace and defend.
Paul di Resta said that it was ridiculous how high Pirelli are running the tyre pressures, the Mercs have no pace in the race because they are lunching the tyres.

The Merc and Ferrari were quite even in qualifying but Merc's tyre wear made it inferior in the race, the Ferrari's starting on the soft tyres was probably a mistake?
Good news for Merc fans is that apparently Pirelli will have the Merc-favoring tyres in all races next season.
Yes I heard that, is that to stop the blistering problems?
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by Johnson »

Who would have thought after Vettel winning the first 2 races that Red Bull would win at least as many of the remaining races as him. Red Bull v Ferrari are 4-4 in wins since then. Red Bull vs Vettel 4-3.

If the season was to start with how the cars have been the last 8 races then we will have a 3 or more way fight for the WDC next year with at least 1 driver from each of the big three teams.

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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by pokerman »

Johnson wrote:Who would have thought after Vettel winning the first 2 races that Red Bull would win at least as many of the remaining races as him. Red Bull v Ferrari are 4-4 in wins since then. Red Bull vs Vettel 4-3.

If the season was to start with how the cars have been the last 8 races then we will have a 3 or more way fight for the WDC next year with at least 1 driver from each of the big three teams.
It's been brought to my attention that the late season form of Red Bull coincides with Pirelli upping the tyre pressures which has caused blistering problems for some teams in particular Mercedes, least affected have been Red Bull, let's say the pressures have been unusually high.
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by Mercedes-Benz »

RBR is easily the best car for race. The grip they have and their car is too very good on tyres. They hardly struggle in the races like Ferrari and Mercedes. I thought Ferrari would be good in the race, their pace looked good on Fridays but had blistering more than others. May be they went too conservative with set-up and harder tyres. SS definitely helped RBR and Mercedes in the start.
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by F1_Ernie »

Mercedes-Benz wrote:RBR is easily the best car for race. The grip they have and their car is too very good on tyres. They hardly struggle in the races like Ferrari and Mercedes. I thought Ferrari would be good in the race, their pace looked good on Fridays but had blistering more than others. May be they went too conservative with set-up and harder tyres. SS definitely helped RBR and Mercedes in the start.
Ferrari had more blistering than Mercedes? I don't think so. The tyre wear of the Mercedes was pretty bad and driving in clear air helped Hamilton. Without Bottas driving slow Hamilton is struggling for a podium place. Ferrari was actually very good in Mexico too.
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by Invade »

Given the Pure Pitwall vid from Mercedes, it seems Lewis's PU problems were quite serious and compromised his pace substantially. It explain how Lewis suddenly wasn't able to produce the expected pace a few laps after his pitstop. This is interesting, as Lewis might have had Verstappen covered otherwise, and it makes the gulf between him and Bottas even more blatant.



2:25

edit:

Later on James also talks about how Bottas was also handcuffed as a knock-on effect from the Mexican GP. So both Mercedes were handcuffed regarding power and made all necessary precautions to finish the race with Bottas. Now that both Championships are cleared up, I wonder if they'll take risks for the final GP of the season in Abu Dhabi.
Last edited by Invade on Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by Lotus49 »

Hard to tell anything for AD with all that went on yeah. Engines turned down for Merc, sensor problems for the quickest Ferrari and the ridiculously high tyre pressures muddy the water somewhat.

Horner said Red Bull also completely ignored qualifying and set the cars up for the race instead which buffed their competitiveness relative to the others. They should've been doing this all year in their unique position but I assume because of the drivers wanting to beat each other in quali its harder to enforce.

I get the feeling Liberty want the tyre pressures high to bring RB into it so the season doesn't fizzle out. Tin foil hat time.
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by Invade »

Lotus49 wrote:Hard to tell anything for AD with all that went on yeah. Engines turned down for Merc, sensor problems for the quickest Ferrari and the ridiculously high tyre pressures muddy the water somewhat.

Horner said Red Bull also completely ignored qualifying and set the cars up for the race instead which buffed their competitiveness relative to the others. They should've been doing this all year in their unique position but I assume because of the drivers wanting to beat each other in quali its harder to enforce.

I get the feeling Liberty want the tyre pressures high to bring RB into it so the season doesn't fizzle out. Tin foil hat time.
I agree. They might be testing that to how how it could shake up the competitive scene in 2019. I don't mind either. Aren't those thinner tread tyres being used for all races in 2019??

It makes sense to give a little nudge and change the angle of attack, so to speak, as long as there's not a scandalous and consistent bias.

This could be rubbish, of course...

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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by Siao7 »

A piece to get the old debate going again:

https://www.racefans.net/2018/11/15/ana ... lower-car/

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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by pokerman »

Siao7 wrote:A piece to get the old debate going again:

https://www.racefans.net/2018/11/15/ana ... lower-car/
So after 14 races it was 9-5 in Ferrari's favour but after Mexico it was 10-9 to Mercedes which of course includes the Mercedes getting thrashed in Mexico, this sounds confused? :?
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by sandman1347 »

pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:A piece to get the old debate going again:

https://www.racefans.net/2018/11/15/ana ... lower-car/
So after 14 races it was 9-5 in Ferrari's favour but after Mexico it was 10-9 to Mercedes which of course includes the Mercedes getting thrashed in Mexico, this sounds confused? :?
Yeah that doesn't compute at all does it? Ferrari were easily quicker in races like Austin, Mexico (and probably now Brazil). Many believe that their car was quicker in Singapore as well. There's no way it was ever 10-9. The most generous estimates have it 12-8 right now between the two teams.

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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

sandman1347 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:A piece to get the old debate going again:

https://www.racefans.net/2018/11/15/ana ... lower-car/
So after 14 races it was 9-5 in Ferrari's favour but after Mexico it was 10-9 to Mercedes which of course includes the Mercedes getting thrashed in Mexico, this sounds confused? :?
Yeah that doesn't compute at all does it? Ferrari were easily quicker in races like Austin, Mexico (and probably now Brazil). Many believe that their car was quicker in Singapore as well. There's no way it was ever 10-9. The most generous estimates have it 12-8 right now between the two teams.
The only way someone could call Singapore in favour of Ferrari is if they are delusional. It's one of the easiest races to call all season.

That said i agree the racefans one seems odd, I make it 12-8 to Ferrari.

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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by Exediron »

Black_Flag_11 wrote:That said i agree the racefans one seems odd, I make it 12-8 to Ferrari.
The problem with the RaceFans one is that it looks (as far as I'm aware) only at fastest laps, and doesn't take into account that Merc's problems stem from tyre management in the race, not outright speed. In Mexico they had the outright pace to stay with Ferrari, but couldn't come near them on tyre life, making the Ferrari clearly the better car.
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Re: [Merged] Mercedes v Ferrari v Red Bull - 2018 edition

Post by sandman1347 »

Black_Flag_11 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:A piece to get the old debate going again:

https://www.racefans.net/2018/11/15/ana ... lower-car/
So after 14 races it was 9-5 in Ferrari's favour but after Mexico it was 10-9 to Mercedes which of course includes the Mercedes getting thrashed in Mexico, this sounds confused? :?
Yeah that doesn't compute at all does it? Ferrari were easily quicker in races like Austin, Mexico (and probably now Brazil). Many believe that their car was quicker in Singapore as well. There's no way it was ever 10-9. The most generous estimates have it 12-8 right now between the two teams.
The only way someone could call Singapore in favour of Ferrari is if they are delusional. It's one of the easiest races to call all season.

That said i agree the racefans one seems odd, I make it 12-8 to Ferrari.
There are quotes from both Vettel and Raikkonen from Singapore claiming they should have had the pole position. Are they "delusional"? Ferrari botched that weekend completely but it wasn't down to the car's level of performance.

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