2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

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mikeyg123
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Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

lucifers wrote:
PzR Slim wrote:Every driver to pit every lap under the VSC from now on?
well a trend might start
Why? You lose loads of time by pitting. Just not as much time as you do when you pit without the VSC.

Syholl
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Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Syholl »

How did Haas mess up those pit stops so badly. Real shame for them....!!

VDV23
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Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by VDV23 »

bourbon19 wrote:It was lucky, but to give a bit of due credit, Ferrari's strategy of keeping Vettel out for those near 30 laps and being in the lead paid off when the VSC occurred. Vettel admitted that he'd been hoping for one. I wrongly bemoaned their doing so at the time, but going for broke worked for them this time.
To be honest, it was their only strategy at this point and it made a lot of sense. He had zero pressure from 4th and he was off the pace compared to Kimi & Lewis so pitting him right both made no sense.

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spiritone
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Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by spiritone »

Verstappen couldn't pass, hamilton couldn't pass, just a parade. New rules need to take a good look at aero effect on passing. Nice that these cars are super fast but it is making for bad racing. Hope kimi can keep up his pace in this his last year of F1.

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UnlikeUday
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Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by UnlikeUday »

bourbon19 wrote:It was lucky, but to give a bit of due credit, Ferrari's strategy of keeping Vettel out for those near 30 laps and being in the lead paid off when the VSC occurred. Vettel admitted that he'd been hoping for one. I wrongly bemoaned their doing so at the time, but going for broke worked for them this time.
Well Ferrari always pit Raikkonen first (if he's in Vettel's way) which then allows Vettel to push harder & extend his 1st stint. It's happened many times in 2017 as well.
Feel The Fourth

sandman1347
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Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by sandman1347 »

mikeyg123 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Alonso is just so good.

Beating four faster cars right now.
He's having a good day but he just lucked out with the safety car. It's all but impossible to pass here and Alonso and Vettel really lucked out.
It's not really all luck though is it. 3 out of those 4 drivers have made mistakes in quali or the race. It's vintage Alonso. Going through the race and just picking off positions.
Nah, after the first lap he gained everything at the VSC.
Sorry but you're wrong. He overtook Sainz before the VSC when he went off and Max would have been ahead of him had he not spun as well. Only Hulk was helpless due to the VSC.
Sorry but that's not accurate at all. Alonso was in 10th place on lap 22 before the pit stops began. He gained two positions over the next two laps when Sainz ran off track and when Max pit. Then the VSC period happened and both Haas drivers ahead of him went out of the race. Also he was able to jump Hulkenberg and Verstappen in the process. He went from net 9th to 5th without an on-track passing maneuver. From there he held his position against the Red Bull but passing on this track is impossible in these cars.

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UnlikeUday
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Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by UnlikeUday »

spiritone wrote:Verstappen couldn't pass, hamilton couldn't pass, just a parade. New rules need to take a good look at aero effect on passing. Nice that these cars are super fast but it is making for bad racing. Hope kimi can keep up his pace in this his last year of F1.
I'd blame the race track for this. Melbourne is notorious for very few overtakes. I bet You'll see much more overtaking in Bahrain & China.
Feel The Fourth

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UnlikeUday
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Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by UnlikeUday »

Syholl wrote:How did Haas mess up those pit stops so badly. Real shame for them....!!
Wheel nut issues.
Feel The Fourth

lamo

Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by lamo »

pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:You shouldn't be allowed to pit under a VSC it's a farce and I've said this before.
Yeah, that's right, punish the team/driver for their strategy. so if their tires were shot, they have to stay out for whatever happens?
:uhoh:
You can't lost time under a VSC even if your tyres are shot, it makes the race a lottery.
The VSC runs at 40-50 seconds per lap slower than racing speed, being on shot tyres is completely irrelevant

jiminwatford
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Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by jiminwatford »

I don't understand what Mercedes are saying. How could Lewis have stayed in front?
Last edited by jiminwatford on Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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LKS1
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Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by LKS1 »

Blake wrote:
spiritone wrote:Not only hamilton screwed on that virtual safety car but kimi lost out too. Kimi had him covered until once again ferrari gives him the worst strategy.
Oh get over it!!!

Ferrari pitted him first, just as they would have done Vettel had Seb been showing the better pace and ahead of his teammate at the time. They had No idea There was going to be a timely VSC.
Exactly, but the race commentators suggested that perhaps Ferrari were favouring Seb by giving him the 'overcut'. Of course this line of discussion was cut short when Lewis immediately pitted to cover Kimi :lol: .

I was thinking about switching off (on the basis of same old- quali position determines race result/Merc. the best car) - but am so glad I didn't as the race provided a few laughs!

In addition to the one mentioned above, I KNEW that Lewis would ask 'What happened there guys?' (subtext 'what did you do wrong') when Seb came out in front. :lol:

Crofty starting a crusade against the unfairness of Seb being able to take the lead under the VSC. :lol:

Webber insinuating during the podium interviews that Haas' mistakes were actually a Ferrari plot. :lol:

lamo

Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by lamo »

UnlikeUday wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:It was lucky, but to give a bit of due credit, Ferrari's strategy of keeping Vettel out for those near 30 laps and being in the lead paid off when the VSC occurred. Vettel admitted that he'd been hoping for one. I wrongly bemoaned their doing so at the time, but going for broke worked for them this time.
Well Ferrari always pit Raikkonen first (if he's in Vettel's way) which then allows Vettel to push harder & extend his 1st stint. It's happened many times in 2017 as well.

Completely wrong.

Pitting first means you exit the pits and are much quicker than the car that stayed out. Kimi was extending his net gap to Vettel as Vettel stayed out. The only track this isn’t the case on is Monaco because it takes several laps to get heat into the new tyre. Vettel was going to exit the pits about 6-7 seconds behind Kimi today. He was 4 seconds behind Kimi when Kimi pitted, kimi had closed an additional 2 seconds whilst Vettel stayed out. Kimi was the quicker Ferrari driver today.
Last edited by lamo on Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:52 am, edited 2 times in total.

Syholl
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Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Syholl »

UnlikeUday wrote:
Syholl wrote:How did Haas mess up those pit stops so badly. Real shame for them....!!
Wheel nut issues.
Both times the pit crews were waving to indicate a problem.... how were they released?

mikeyg123
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Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

sandman1347 wrote: Sorry but that's not accurate at all. Alonso was in 10th place on lap 22 before the pit stops began. He gained two positions over the next two laps when Sainz ran off track and when Max pit. Then the VSC period happened and both Haas drivers ahead of him went out of the race. Also he was able to jump Hulkenberg and Verstappen in the process. He went from net 9th to 5th without an on-track passing maneuver. From there he held his position against the Red Bull but passing on this track is impossible in these cars.
So how does that make what I said inaccurate in any way? Alonso finished ahead of 4 quicker cars. Three of them made major mistakes over the weekend.

jiminwatford
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Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by jiminwatford »

jiminwatford wrote:I don't understand what Mercedes are saying. How could Lewis have stayed in front?
Oh I see, Lewis simply should gone a little quicker had they known the gap was too big (according to Ted and Martin)

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Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by jiminwatford »

jiminwatford wrote:
jiminwatford wrote:I don't understand what Mercedes are saying. How could Lewis have stayed in front?
Oh I see, Lewis simply should gone a little quicker had they known the gap was too big (according to Ted and Martin)
Having a little chat with myself now. I don't know if it was practical to go a second or so more in the few laps between leaving the pits and the VSC. Wouldn't that add to the overall wear on tyres they want to last the rest of the race?

Of course if they knew if the VSC was coming, yes, but otherwise.. ?

jiminwatford
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Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by jiminwatford »

jiminwatford wrote:
jiminwatford wrote:
jiminwatford wrote:I don't understand what Mercedes are saying. How could Lewis have stayed in front?
Oh I see, Lewis simply should gone a little quicker had they known the gap was too big (according to Ted and Martin)
Having a little chat with myself now. I don't know if it was practical to go a second or so more in the few laps between leaving the pits and the VSC. Wouldn't that add to the overall wear on tyres they want to last the rest of the race?

Of course if they knew if the VSC was coming, yes, but otherwise.. ?
I think i need some sleep. Obviously Mercedes think they could have and would have if their data had told them to :)

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Alienturnedhuman
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Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

jiminwatford wrote:
jiminwatford wrote:
jiminwatford wrote:I don't understand what Mercedes are saying. How could Lewis have stayed in front?
Oh I see, Lewis simply should gone a little quicker had they known the gap was too big (according to Ted and Martin)
Having a little chat with myself now. I don't know if it was practical to go a second or so more in the few laps between leaving the pits and the VSC. Wouldn't that add to the overall wear on tyres they want to last the rest of the race?

Of course if they knew if the VSC was coming, yes, but otherwise.. ?
The teams have a VSC delta. This is the time the gap they have to be within to avoid the car that hasn't pitted yet not get ahead when they pit. The best strategy is to have about 3 seconds less than this and maintain that gap. Mercedes miscalculated, Hamilton was maintaining a 12 second gap when he needed about 10.

Hamilton had the pace to do this comfortably, it was a calculation error, and consequentially a Mercedes screw up that they lost the race. This was not an unlucky VSC race loss, it was a Merc error plain and simple.

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Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Migen »

I was under the impression that the drivers have "the earliest time of arrival" displayed on their steering wheel and updated not only on the 3 sector times, but continuously in real time by GPS (edit: basically, you cant just "floor" it at maximum speed for the 90% of a certain sector and then take the last 200 meters very slowly)

If thats the case, it begs the question... could Lewis have gone a bit faster but was wrongly told by Mercedes pit crew that he had a considerable buffer in hand?

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Alienturnedhuman
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Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

Migen wrote:I was under the impression that the drivers have "the earliest time of arrival" displayed on their steering wheel and updated not only on the 3 sector times, but continuously in real time by GPS.
If thats the case, it begs the question... could Lewis have gone a bit faster but was wrongly told by Mercedes pit crew that he had a considerable buffer in hand?
No, this is not what Mercedes are referring to. The inept Sky team have woefully misinformed the viewers by concentrating on this for some incredibly bizarre reason. The lap deltas don't come from the team, they come from race control, Mercedes have no hand in calculating them or delivering them. Hamilton didn't drive too slowly, F1 drivers are experts at driving to sectors on demand.

The issue is BEFORE the Haas incidents occurred. After Hamilton pitted and Vettel remained out, Mercedes calculated how far ahead Vettel had to be in order to take the lead if a VSC came out. They calculated it at 15 seconds. It was actually 11 seconds. Therefore they told Hamilton to maintain the 12 second gap he had as IF a VSC came out - according to their calculations - Vettel wouldn't take the lead if he pitted. However, as it turned out, they were wrong. Hamilton had the pace to close the gap to 10 seconds or even less, he was holding back to save tyre life, however closing to 9 seconds really wouldn't have affected it too much.

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Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Zoue »

Good result for Ferrari, but they were also somewhat lucky and the way Hamilton could take half a second out of Vettel's lead seemingly at will bodes ominous for everyone else. I burst out laughing when he was all over the back of the Ferrari and asked "can I attack yet?" over the team radio. They have so much pace in hand in that car it's almost unreal.

Ferrari are lucky it's a track where overtaking is next to impossible. Most other tracks the end result would have been completely different.

The Red Bulls also looked super-quick in race pace. Max's error cost them but they looked faster than the Ferraris here

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Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by jiminwatford »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Migen wrote:I was under the impression that the drivers have "the earliest time of arrival" displayed on their steering wheel and updated not only on the 3 sector times, but continuously in real time by GPS.
If thats the case, it begs the question... could Lewis have gone a bit faster but was wrongly told by Mercedes pit crew that he had a considerable buffer in hand?
No, this is not what Mercedes are referring to. The inept Sky team have woefully misinformed the viewers by concentrating on this for some incredibly bizarre reason. The lap deltas don't come from the team, they come from race control, Mercedes have no hand in calculating them or delivering them. Hamilton didn't drive too slowly, F1 drivers are experts at driving to sectors on demand.

The issue is BEFORE the Haas incidents occurred. After Hamilton pitted and Vettel remained out, Mercedes calculated how far ahead Vettel had to be in order to take the lead if a VSC came out. They calculated it at 15 seconds. It was actually 11 seconds. Therefore they told Hamilton to maintain the 12 second gap he had as IF a VSC came out - according to their calculations - Vettel wouldn't take the lead if he pitted. However, as it turned out, they were wrong. Hamilton had the pace to close the gap to 10 seconds or even less, he was holding back to save tyre life, however closing to 9 seconds really wouldn't have affected it too much.
Yes, that's how i understand it. Accordingly they would have been able to create the safe gap had they known the correct figure to be behind Vettel (before the VSC)
Last edited by jiminwatford on Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

Prema
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Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Prema »

Migen wrote:I was under the impression that the drivers have "the earliest time of arrival" displayed on their steering wheel and updated not only on the 3 sector times, but continuously in real time by GPS (edit: basically, you cant just "floor" it at maximum speed for the 90% of a certain sector and then take the last 200 meters very slowly)

If thats the case, it begs the question... could Lewis have gone a bit faster but was wrongly told by Mercedes pit crew that he had a considerable buffer in hand?
Toto Wolff, in a post-race interview on German RTL, said that their calculation of a safe gap under the VSC turned out to be erroneous.

Migen
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Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Migen »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Migen wrote:I was under the impression that the drivers have "the earliest time of arrival" displayed on their steering wheel and updated not only on the 3 sector times, but continuously in real time by GPS.
If thats the case, it begs the question... could Lewis have gone a bit faster but was wrongly told by Mercedes pit crew that he had a considerable buffer in hand?
No, this is not what Mercedes are referring to. The inept Sky team have woefully misinformed the viewers by concentrating on this for some incredibly bizarre reason. The lap deltas don't come from the team, they come from race control, Mercedes have no hand in calculating them or delivering them. Hamilton didn't drive too slowly, F1 drivers are experts at driving to sectors on demand.

The issue is BEFORE the Haas incidents occurred. After Hamilton pitted and Vettel remained out, Mercedes calculated how far ahead Vettel had to be in order to take the lead if a VSC came out. They calculated it at 15 seconds. It was actually 11 seconds. Therefore they told Hamilton to maintain the 12 second gap he had as IF a VSC came out - according to their calculations - Vettel wouldn't take the lead if he pitted. However, as it turned out, they were wrong. Hamilton had the pace to close the gap to 10 seconds or even less, he was holding back to save tyre life, however closing to 9 seconds really wouldn't have affected it too much.
Ohh ok. Now it all makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up.
Yeah, I had hard time understanding what SkyF1 was refereeing to, in few race episodes today.

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purchville
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Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by purchville »

Well done to Daniel Ricciardo for restoring some semblance of integrity to Australian sport today. Solid drive from him.
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- 2014 Championship 6th position
- 2016 Championship 9th position

lamo

Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by lamo »

Zoue wrote:Good result for Ferrari, but they were also somewhat lucky and the way Hamilton could take half a second out of Vettel's lead seemingly at will bodes ominous for everyone else. I burst out laughing when he was all over the back of the Ferrari and asked "can I attack yet?" over the team radio. They have so much pace in hand in that car it's almost unreal.

Ferrari are lucky it's a track where overtaking is next to impossible. Most other tracks the end result would have been completely different.

The Red Bulls also looked super-quick in race pace. Max's error cost them but they looked faster than the Ferraris here
All spot on. Without errors/penalties, Vettel might have finished this race 5th amazingly. Max and Bottas would have been ahead without qualifying errors. Bitter sweet for Seb, he got a race win but on a clean weekend he likely would have been 5th today.

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Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by wolfticket »

jiminwatford wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Migen wrote:I was under the impression that the drivers have "the earliest time of arrival" displayed on their steering wheel and updated not only on the 3 sector times, but continuously in real time by GPS.
If thats the case, it begs the question... could Lewis have gone a bit faster but was wrongly told by Mercedes pit crew that he had a considerable buffer in hand?
No, this is not what Mercedes are referring to. The inept Sky team have woefully misinformed the viewers by concentrating on this for some incredibly bizarre reason. The lap deltas don't come from the team, they come from race control, Mercedes have no hand in calculating them or delivering them. Hamilton didn't drive too slowly, F1 drivers are experts at driving to sectors on demand.

The issue is BEFORE the Haas incidents occurred. After Hamilton pitted and Vettel remained out, Mercedes calculated how far ahead Vettel had to be in order to take the lead if a VSC came out. They calculated it at 15 seconds. It was actually 11 seconds. Therefore they told Hamilton to maintain the 12 second gap he had as IF a VSC came out - according to their calculations - Vettel wouldn't take the lead if he pitted. However, as it turned out, they were wrong. Hamilton had the pace to close the gap to 10 seconds or even less, he was holding back to save tyre life, however closing to 9 seconds really wouldn't have affected it too much.
Yes, that's how i understand it. Accordingly they would have been able to create the safe gap had they known the correct figure to be behind Vettel (before the VSC)
I think in retrospect they could have, I'm still not 100% sure they would have even with the right data. Hamilton would have had to push fairly hard at the beginning of a long stint and the chances of a VSC in the narrow window where it happened in a manner that cost them the lead were low.
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lamo

Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by lamo »

wolfticket wrote:
jiminwatford wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Migen wrote:I was under the impression that the drivers have "the earliest time of arrival" displayed on their steering wheel and updated not only on the 3 sector times, but continuously in real time by GPS.
If thats the case, it begs the question... could Lewis have gone a bit faster but was wrongly told by Mercedes pit crew that he had a considerable buffer in hand?
No, this is not what Mercedes are referring to. The inept Sky team have woefully misinformed the viewers by concentrating on this for some incredibly bizarre reason. The lap deltas don't come from the team, they come from race control, Mercedes have no hand in calculating them or delivering them. Hamilton didn't drive too slowly, F1 drivers are experts at driving to sectors on demand.

The issue is BEFORE the Haas incidents occurred. After Hamilton pitted and Vettel remained out, Mercedes calculated how far ahead Vettel had to be in order to take the lead if a VSC came out. They calculated it at 15 seconds. It was actually 11 seconds. Therefore they told Hamilton to maintain the 12 second gap he had as IF a VSC came out - according to their calculations - Vettel wouldn't take the lead if he pitted. However, as it turned out, they were wrong. Hamilton had the pace to close the gap to 10 seconds or even less, he was holding back to save tyre life, however closing to 9 seconds really wouldn't have affected it too much.
Yes, that's how i understand it. Accordingly they would have been able to create the safe gap had they known the correct figure to be behind Vettel (before the VSC)
I think in retrospect they could have, I'm still not 100% sure they would have even with the right data. Hamilton would have had to push fairly hard at the beginning of a long stint and the chances of a VSC in the narrow window where it happened in a manner that cost them the lead were low.
They say they had the pace to do so. Mercedes thought the race was over, Hamilton was in complete conservation mode. They thought he needed to be within 15 seconds of Vettel, he was within 11. In there heads, it was race over. There was no need to push at all at this point.

If the VSC came 2 laps later, Hamilton would have still had the lead as he was lapping 0.5 a lap quicker than Vettel even without pushing.

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Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Gumption »

lamo wrote:
Zoue wrote:Good result for Ferrari, but they were also somewhat lucky and the way Hamilton could take half a second out of Vettel's lead seemingly at will bodes ominous for everyone else. I burst out laughing when he was all over the back of the Ferrari and asked "can I attack yet?" over the team radio. They have so much pace in hand in that car it's almost unreal.

Ferrari are lucky it's a track where overtaking is next to impossible. Most other tracks the end result would have been completely different.

The Red Bulls also looked super-quick in race pace. Max's error cost them but they looked faster than the Ferraris here
All spot on. Without errors/penalties, Vettel might have finished this race 5th amazingly. Max and Bottas would have been ahead without qualifying errors. Bitter sweet for Seb, he got a race win but on a clean weekend he likely would have been 5th today.
Vettel made a qualifying error too so without errors/penalties he probably would have started 2nd and may have cruised to 2nd (or 3rd if Kimi had Vettel's strategy and took the lead during the VSC).

lamo

Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by lamo »

Gumption wrote:
lamo wrote:
Zoue wrote:Good result for Ferrari, but they were also somewhat lucky and the way Hamilton could take half a second out of Vettel's lead seemingly at will bodes ominous for everyone else. I burst out laughing when he was all over the back of the Ferrari and asked "can I attack yet?" over the team radio. They have so much pace in hand in that car it's almost unreal.

Ferrari are lucky it's a track where overtaking is next to impossible. Most other tracks the end result would have been completely different.

The Red Bulls also looked super-quick in race pace. Max's error cost them but they looked faster than the Ferraris here
All spot on. Without errors/penalties, Vettel might have finished this race 5th amazingly. Max and Bottas would have been ahead without qualifying errors. Bitter sweet for Seb, he got a race win but on a clean weekend he likely would have been 5th today.
Vettel made a qualifying error too so without errors/penalties he probably would have started 2nd and may have cruised to 2nd (or 3rd if Kimi had Vettel's strategy and took the lead during the VSC).
Bottas almost certainly would have started 2nd and I read that Max lost the most time of everybody due to error. So surely he starts 4th if everybody nailed it.

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Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Migen »

lamo wrote:
Zoue wrote:Good result for Ferrari, but they were also somewhat lucky and the way Hamilton could take half a second out of Vettel's lead seemingly at will bodes ominous for everyone else. I burst out laughing when he was all over the back of the Ferrari and asked "can I attack yet?" over the team radio. They have so much pace in hand in that car it's almost unreal.

Ferrari are lucky it's a track where overtaking is next to impossible. Most other tracks the end result would have been completely different.

The Red Bulls also looked super-quick in race pace. Max's error cost them but they looked faster than the Ferraris here
All spot on. Without errors/penalties, Vettel might have finished this race 5th amazingly. Max and Bottas would have been ahead without qualifying errors. Bitter sweet for Seb, he got a race win but on a clean weekend he likely would have been 5th today.
That looks like a "worst case scenario", but it has to be said that Vettel could have also finished 2nd on merit today... meaning:
On used US tires, Vettel was barely loosing 1 tenth per lap to Kimi and without the SC/VSC (which forced Vettel to pit out of opportunism to take the lead), Vettel could have extended his stint for another 5 laps or more and then probably mount the 1 step faster SS tires (or at least, have much fresher S tires) and then close up and attempt to pass Kimi by the end of the race. Difficult yes, but not impossible by any means.

Zoue
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Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Zoue »

Migen wrote:
lamo wrote:
Zoue wrote:Good result for Ferrari, but they were also somewhat lucky and the way Hamilton could take half a second out of Vettel's lead seemingly at will bodes ominous for everyone else. I burst out laughing when he was all over the back of the Ferrari and asked "can I attack yet?" over the team radio. They have so much pace in hand in that car it's almost unreal.

Ferrari are lucky it's a track where overtaking is next to impossible. Most other tracks the end result would have been completely different.

The Red Bulls also looked super-quick in race pace. Max's error cost them but they looked faster than the Ferraris here
All spot on. Without errors/penalties, Vettel might have finished this race 5th amazingly. Max and Bottas would have been ahead without qualifying errors. Bitter sweet for Seb, he got a race win but on a clean weekend he likely would have been 5th today.
That looks like a "worst case scenario", but it has to be said that Vettel could have also finished 2nd on merit today... meaning:
On used US tires, Vettel was barely loosing 1 tenth per lap to Kimi and without the SC/VSC (which forced Vettel to pit out of opportunism to take the lead), Vettel could have extended his stint for another 5 laps or more and then probably mount the 1 step faster SS tires (or at least, have much fresher S tires) and then close up and attempt to pass Kimi by the end of the race. Difficult yes, but not impossible by any means.
I think any pass would have been wishful thinking. Both Hamilton and Verstappen had cars that were significantly superior to the ones they were trying to overtake, but couldn't make any headway. It would have been a tall order to expect Vetrtel to pass Kimi today.

lamo

Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by lamo »

Migen wrote:
lamo wrote:
Zoue wrote:Good result for Ferrari, but they were also somewhat lucky and the way Hamilton could take half a second out of Vettel's lead seemingly at will bodes ominous for everyone else. I burst out laughing when he was all over the back of the Ferrari and asked "can I attack yet?" over the team radio. They have so much pace in hand in that car it's almost unreal.

Ferrari are lucky it's a track where overtaking is next to impossible. Most other tracks the end result would have been completely different.

The Red Bulls also looked super-quick in race pace. Max's error cost them but they looked faster than the Ferraris here
All spot on. Without errors/penalties, Vettel might have finished this race 5th amazingly. Max and Bottas would have been ahead without qualifying errors. Bitter sweet for Seb, he got a race win but on a clean weekend he likely would have been 5th today.
That looks like a "worst case scenario", but it has to be said that Vettel could have also finished 2nd on merit today... meaning:
On used US tires, Vettel was barely loosing 1 tenth per lap to Kimi and without the SC/VSC (which forced Vettel to pit out of opportunism to take the lead), Vettel could have extended his stint for another 5 laps or more and then probably mount the 1 step faster SS tires (or at least, have much fresher S tires) and then close up and attempt to pass Kimi by the end of the race. Difficult yes, but not impossible by any means.
Vettels tyres were gone. He lost nearly 1 second to Kimi in the 3 laps before the VSC and was lapping 0.5-0.7 slower than he was 3-4 laps before those 3 laps.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... 0Raikkonen

Migen
Posts: 805
Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 12:49 pm

Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Migen »

Zoue wrote:
Migen wrote:
lamo wrote:
Zoue wrote:Good result for Ferrari, but they were also somewhat lucky and the way Hamilton could take half a second out of Vettel's lead seemingly at will bodes ominous for everyone else. I burst out laughing when he was all over the back of the Ferrari and asked "can I attack yet?" over the team radio. They have so much pace in hand in that car it's almost unreal.

Ferrari are lucky it's a track where overtaking is next to impossible. Most other tracks the end result would have been completely different.

The Red Bulls also looked super-quick in race pace. Max's error cost them but they looked faster than the Ferraris here
All spot on. Without errors/penalties, Vettel might have finished this race 5th amazingly. Max and Bottas would have been ahead without qualifying errors. Bitter sweet for Seb, he got a race win but on a clean weekend he likely would have been 5th today.
That looks like a "worst case scenario", but it has to be said that Vettel could have also finished 2nd on merit today... meaning:
On used US tires, Vettel was barely loosing 1 tenth per lap to Kimi and without the SC/VSC (which forced Vettel to pit out of opportunism to take the lead), Vettel could have extended his stint for another 5 laps or more and then probably mount the 1 step faster SS tires (or at least, have much fresher S tires) and then close up and attempt to pass Kimi by the end of the race. Difficult yes, but not impossible by any means.
I think any pass would have been wishful thinking. Both Hamilton and Verstappen had cars that were significantly superior to the ones they were trying to overtake, but couldn't make any headway. It would have been a tall order to expect Vetrtel to pass Kimi today.
Well, depends to what extend in comparison with Mercedes and Red Bull the Ferraris might be susceptible following in dirty air. 1 step faster tires + DRS would have given him a better chance than what Ricciardo(with a marginally slower car) had vs Kimi in comparison.

Zoue
Posts: 25158
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am

Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Zoue »

Migen wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Migen wrote:
lamo wrote:
Zoue wrote:Good result for Ferrari, but they were also somewhat lucky and the way Hamilton could take half a second out of Vettel's lead seemingly at will bodes ominous for everyone else. I burst out laughing when he was all over the back of the Ferrari and asked "can I attack yet?" over the team radio. They have so much pace in hand in that car it's almost unreal.

Ferrari are lucky it's a track where overtaking is next to impossible. Most other tracks the end result would have been completely different.

The Red Bulls also looked super-quick in race pace. Max's error cost them but they looked faster than the Ferraris here
All spot on. Without errors/penalties, Vettel might have finished this race 5th amazingly. Max and Bottas would have been ahead without qualifying errors. Bitter sweet for Seb, he got a race win but on a clean weekend he likely would have been 5th today.
That looks like a "worst case scenario", but it has to be said that Vettel could have also finished 2nd on merit today... meaning:
On used US tires, Vettel was barely loosing 1 tenth per lap to Kimi and without the SC/VSC (which forced Vettel to pit out of opportunism to take the lead), Vettel could have extended his stint for another 5 laps or more and then probably mount the 1 step faster SS tires (or at least, have much fresher S tires) and then close up and attempt to pass Kimi by the end of the race. Difficult yes, but not impossible by any means.
I think any pass would have been wishful thinking. Both Hamilton and Verstappen had cars that were significantly superior to the ones they were trying to overtake, but couldn't make any headway. It would have been a tall order to expect Vetrtel to pass Kimi today.
Well, depends to what extend in comparison with Mercedes and Red Bull the Ferraris might be susceptible following in dirty air. 1 step faster tires + DRS would have given him a better chance than what Ricciardo(with a marginally slower car) had vs Kimi in comparison.
Not sure if I understood you right. I think the Red Bull was significantly quicker than the Ferrari today. Ricciardo's fastest lap was nearly half a second faster than Kimi's and at the time Kimi was in clear air and should have been pushing. The Ferrrari looked to be the slowest top team during the race

lamo

Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by lamo »

Migen wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Migen wrote:
lamo wrote:
Zoue wrote:Good result for Ferrari, but they were also somewhat lucky and the way Hamilton could take half a second out of Vettel's lead seemingly at will bodes ominous for everyone else. I burst out laughing when he was all over the back of the Ferrari and asked "can I attack yet?" over the team radio. They have so much pace in hand in that car it's almost unreal.

Ferrari are lucky it's a track where overtaking is next to impossible. Most other tracks the end result would have been completely different.

The Red Bulls also looked super-quick in race pace. Max's error cost them but they looked faster than the Ferraris here
All spot on. Without errors/penalties, Vettel might have finished this race 5th amazingly. Max and Bottas would have been ahead without qualifying errors. Bitter sweet for Seb, he got a race win but on a clean weekend he likely would have been 5th today.
That looks like a "worst case scenario", but it has to be said that Vettel could have also finished 2nd on merit today... meaning:
On used US tires, Vettel was barely loosing 1 tenth per lap to Kimi and without the SC/VSC (which forced Vettel to pit out of opportunism to take the lead), Vettel could have extended his stint for another 5 laps or more and then probably mount the 1 step faster SS tires (or at least, have much fresher S tires) and then close up and attempt to pass Kimi by the end of the race. Difficult yes, but not impossible by any means.
I think any pass would have been wishful thinking. Both Hamilton and Verstappen had cars that were significantly superior to the ones they were trying to overtake, but couldn't make any headway. It would have been a tall order to expect Vetrtel to pass Kimi today.
Well, depends to what extend in comparison with Mercedes and Red Bull the Ferraris might be susceptible following in dirty air. 1 step faster tires + DRS would have given him a better chance than what Ricciardo(with a marginally slower car) had vs Kimi in comparison.
I dont see him as quick enough to do that. Even with 8 lap fresher tyres than Kimi in the 2nd stint today, he wasn’t massively quicker than him. You need to be about 2 seconds per lap quicker to overtake at Albert Park.

Even with a tyre age and compound advantage I don’t see it happening. He also would have had to close the 5-6 second gap to Kimi if there wasn’t a SC. The older the tyre gets the less advantage it has too, so his compound advantage would be less by the time he caught Kimi.

Kimi was actually impressive today, his fastest lap was 0.1 quicker than Vettels and both Ferrari’s were pushing in the last stint and Kimi did that on much older tyres.

Migen
Posts: 805
Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 12:49 pm

Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Migen »

lamo wrote:
Migen wrote:
lamo wrote:
Zoue wrote:Good result for Ferrari, but they were also somewhat lucky and the way Hamilton could take half a second out of Vettel's lead seemingly at will bodes ominous for everyone else. I burst out laughing when he was all over the back of the Ferrari and asked "can I attack yet?" over the team radio. They have so much pace in hand in that car it's almost unreal.

Ferrari are lucky it's a track where overtaking is next to impossible. Most other tracks the end result would have been completely different.

The Red Bulls also looked super-quick in race pace. Max's error cost them but they looked faster than the Ferraris here
All spot on. Without errors/penalties, Vettel might have finished this race 5th amazingly. Max and Bottas would have been ahead without qualifying errors. Bitter sweet for Seb, he got a race win but on a clean weekend he likely would have been 5th today.
That looks like a "worst case scenario", but it has to be said that Vettel could have also finished 2nd on merit today... meaning:
On used US tires, Vettel was barely loosing 1 tenth per lap to Kimi and without the SC/VSC (which forced Vettel to pit out of opportunism to take the lead), Vettel could have extended his stint for another 5 laps or more and then probably mount the 1 step faster SS tires (or at least, have much fresher S tires) and then close up and attempt to pass Kimi by the end of the race. Difficult yes, but not impossible by any means.
Vettels tyres were gone. He lost nearly 1 second to Kimi in the 3 laps before the VSC and was lapping 0.5-0.7 slower than he was 3-4 laps before those 3 laps.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... 0Raikkonen
He lost 6 tenths on lap 24 and then a mere 0.036 seconds on the next lap before the VSC... lap 24 could have been a 1 off (or maybe a back-marker interference?). As a whole, Vettel lost NOTHING to Kimi during those 8 laps of extended stint.

Zoue
Posts: 25158
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am

Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Zoue »

Hilarious interview on Dutch TV. Dutch reporter asks Lewis if he lost the race during the SC. The look on Lewis' face was priceless. Honestly, I feel sorry for these guys that they have to answer such idiotic questions!

lamo

Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by lamo »

Migen wrote:
lamo wrote:
Migen wrote:
lamo wrote:
Zoue wrote:Good result for Ferrari, but they were also somewhat lucky and the way Hamilton could take half a second out of Vettel's lead seemingly at will bodes ominous for everyone else. I burst out laughing when he was all over the back of the Ferrari and asked "can I attack yet?" over the team radio. They have so much pace in hand in that car it's almost unreal.

Ferrari are lucky it's a track where overtaking is next to impossible. Most other tracks the end result would have been completely different.

The Red Bulls also looked super-quick in race pace. Max's error cost them but they looked faster than the Ferraris here
All spot on. Without errors/penalties, Vettel might have finished this race 5th amazingly. Max and Bottas would have been ahead without qualifying errors. Bitter sweet for Seb, he got a race win but on a clean weekend he likely would have been 5th today.
That looks like a "worst case scenario", but it has to be said that Vettel could have also finished 2nd on merit today... meaning:
On used US tires, Vettel was barely loosing 1 tenth per lap to Kimi and without the SC/VSC (which forced Vettel to pit out of opportunism to take the lead), Vettel could have extended his stint for another 5 laps or more and then probably mount the 1 step faster SS tires (or at least, have much fresher S tires) and then close up and attempt to pass Kimi by the end of the race. Difficult yes, but not impossible by any means.
Vettels tyres were gone. He lost nearly 1 second to Kimi in the 3 laps before the VSC and was lapping 0.5-0.7 slower than he was 3-4 laps before those 3 laps.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... 0Raikkonen
He lost 6 tenths on lap 24 and then a mere 0.036 seconds on the next lap before the VSC... lap 24 could have been a 1 off (or maybe a back-marker interference?). As a whole, Vettel lost NOTHING to Kimi during those 8 laps of extended stint.
He lost 1 second on Kimi’s out lap, although its not captured in those numbers. Kimi did a blistering out lap - attempting to undercut Hamilton. Kimi after that was running a pace, he said on the radio “why didn’t you tell me to drive faster” when he emerged behind Vettel.

But he lost no more over the next 7 laps, however, like I said his times were now slow. If he went any further he was going to lose time to Kimi.

babararacucudada
Posts: 1689
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:08 pm

Re: 2018 Australia Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by babararacucudada »

It would be nice to have overtaking on the track in a F1 race - it is supposed to be the pinnacle of Motor Racing.

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