Grand Prix Driver on Amazon
Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:55 am
Has anybody else been watching this? It's really good. Shows the depth of Mclaren's issues with Honda. They couldn't even get the engine to fire up for an in house demo.
Yeah I watched the whole lot in one night.mikeyg123 wrote:Has anybody else been watching this? It's really good. Shows the depth of Mclaren's issues with Honda. They couldn't even get the engine to fire up for an in house demo.
Wait until you hear Zak Browninky38 wrote:Yeah I watched the whole lot in one night.mikeyg123 wrote:Has anybody else been watching this? It's really good. Shows the depth of Mclaren's issues with Honda. They couldn't even get the engine to fire up for an in house demo.
Whilst the original idea was to concentrate on Stoffell, I found myself fast forwarding through those bits. I was more interested in the issues with the car and engine.
Were Honda expecting to fire the engine up remotely without the usual starter?
I really like these fly on the wall type of documentaries and I would have liked to have seen the whole season rather than roughly 8 weeks with the team.
Not sure about Michael Douglas as a narrator. Can't even pronounce Renault properly
Yes, that was really interesting.Exediron wrote:I watched the whole thing last week in one go, and I loved it. It's really a monument to how McLaren and Honda couldn't make the relationship work, but the level of behind-the-scenes access is far beyond what you usually get form anything F1.
As a McLaren fan, one of my favorite moments is right at the start when they're preparing the conference table for a shareholder meeting: an employee goes from seat to seat making sure that the spacing is precise and everybody's materials are laid out exactly the same. Love it or hate it, that perfectly encapsulates the modern McLaren culture for me.
Another scene that tickled my fancy was where Stoffel and Alonso are getting ready for the big media day, and the media guy asks Alonso if there will be more overtaking in 2017. Alonso says no, there will be less. Then they ask if that's what he's going to tell the press, and he says no, he'll say that we'll have to wait and see. You get a feeling that talking to the media has become so familiar by now that it's second nature to him, whereas Stoff is still trying to figure the whole thing out. Their rookie / veteran dynamic is very clear in scenes like that.
I don't know if they're going to make more like this in the future, but I'd definitely watch if they do.
Yeah, it's too short. But I'm not going to complain too much, since getting anything at all inside an F1 team is so rare.LBET wrote:Finished watching it. It could have been so much better. Agree with Understeer on epi 4.
Watched it last night, im guessing mc honda thought it would be a great underdog story coming from a disappointing opening campaign to what their expections were for the 2017 season. Thats probably why it was documented imo. (Maybe a sponsorship from amazon if the season went well)TheBlackFlag wrote:Is anybody else surprised that Honda let this film happen? We knew they were struggling but...yikes.
I think Vandoorne did OK. Alonso's just better. I doubt anybody seriously expected Vandoorne to be much better in his rookie year. Bottas is the only driver on the grid to outscore an experienced team mate in their rookie years. Quality drivers usually make a big improvement in their second season.kleefton wrote:Watching this, it's clear Mclaren suffered two huge disappointments in 2017, one was Honda and the other was Vandoorne. Both were expected great things of, both failed, especially Honda. It's clear now that they had to hold onto Alonso at any cost, and in order to do that, Honda had to be let go. Still think it's an unbelievable documentary albeit too short.
mikeyg123 wrote:I think Vandoorne did OK. Alonso's just better. I doubt anybody seriously expected Vandoorne to be much better in his rookie year. Bottas is the only driver on the grid to outscore an experienced team mate in their rookie years. Quality drivers usually make a big improvement in their second season.kleefton wrote:Watching this, it's clear Mclaren suffered two huge disappointments in 2017, one was Honda and the other was Vandoorne. Both were expected great things of, both failed, especially Honda. It's clear now that they had to hold onto Alonso at any cost, and in order to do that, Honda had to be let go. Still think it's an unbelievable documentary albeit too short.
Very interesting. I’ll give it a watch some time this week.inky38 wrote:Yeah I watched the whole lot in one night.mikeyg123 wrote:Has anybody else been watching this? It's really good. Shows the depth of Mclaren's issues with Honda. They couldn't even get the engine to fire up for an in house demo.
Whilst the original idea was to concentrate on Stoffell, I found myself fast forwarding through those bits. I was more interested in the issues with the car and engine.
Were Honda expecting to fire the engine up remotely without the usual starter?
I really like these fly on the wall type of documentaries and I would have liked to have seen the whole season rather than roughly 8 weeks with the team.
Not sure about Michael Douglas as a narrator. Can't even pronounce Renault properly
Yeah, and does anyone really think Bottas would have outscored Alonso in his rookie year?mikeyg123 wrote:I think Vandoorne did OK. Alonso's just better. I doubt anybody seriously expected Vandoorne to be much better in his rookie year. Bottas is the only driver on the grid to outscore an experienced team mate in their rookie years. Quality drivers usually make a big improvement in their second season.
No. It's very hard to compare Vandoorne and Alonso last year as they hardly ever both got to run clean. I would say the performance gap was similar to that of Bottas/Hamilton if I had to make an educated guess. If that is the case then that's good going for a rookie.Exediron wrote:Yeah, and does anyone really think Bottas would have outscored Alonso in his rookie year?mikeyg123 wrote:I think Vandoorne did OK. Alonso's just better. I doubt anybody seriously expected Vandoorne to be much better in his rookie year. Bottas is the only driver on the grid to outscore an experienced team mate in their rookie years. Quality drivers usually make a big improvement in their second season.
I think Vandoorne had very much a season of two parts. From the time of his big step-up on, he was very acceptable for a rookie and showed the flashes of brilliance we all expected: before that, he was more like 6-7 tenths off on average and was quite disappointing. But he did get through his issues, and most importantly he did show a consistent improvement throughout the season, so I tend to think that he performed better than most people give him credit for.mikeyg123 wrote:No. It's very hard to compare Vandoorne and Alonso last year as they hardly ever both got to run clean. I would say the performance gap was similar to that of Bottas/Hamilton if I had to make an educated guess. If that is the case then that's good going for a rookie.Exediron wrote:Yeah, and does anyone really think Bottas would have outscored Alonso in his rookie year?mikeyg123 wrote:I think Vandoorne did OK. Alonso's just better. I doubt anybody seriously expected Vandoorne to be much better in his rookie year. Bottas is the only driver on the grid to outscore an experienced team mate in their rookie years. Quality drivers usually make a big improvement in their second season.
Lets be honest if the Mclaren had been the best car last year and Alonso cantered to the WDC with Vandoorne picking up occasional wins everyone would be saying what a great rookie year he had.
Only through biased lenses you could say that. He was underwhelming, Alonso taken into account or not. He has not had one drive that is memorable so far. If he is to be so great he would already have one or a few, even in a difficult car. I am not saying he was awful, but he was definitely not top tier material. This is a guy that was touted to be better than Vettel and Hamilton, completely dominated his junior career. We are not talking about a Sirotkin equivalent here. In the documentary it was evident that Mclaren thought he would give Alonso a run for his money, he did not. Plain and simple.mikeyg123 wrote:I think Vandoorne did OK. Alonso's just better. I doubt anybody seriously expected Vandoorne to be much better in his rookie year. Bottas is the only driver on the grid to outscore an experienced team mate in their rookie years. Quality drivers usually make a big improvement in their second season.kleefton wrote:Watching this, it's clear Mclaren suffered two huge disappointments in 2017, one was Honda and the other was Vandoorne. Both were expected great things of, both failed, especially Honda. It's clear now that they had to hold onto Alonso at any cost, and in order to do that, Honda had to be let go. Still think it's an unbelievable documentary albeit too short.
Malaysia? Finished 7th, solidly outqualifying and outracing Alonso?kleefton wrote:Only through biased lenses you could say that. He was underwhelming, Alonso taken into account or not. He has not had one drive that is memorable so far. If he is to be so great he would already have one or a few, even in a difficult car. I am not saying he was awful, but he was definitely not top tier material. This is a guy that was touted to be better than Vettel and Hamilton, completely dominated his junior career. We are not talking about a Sirotkin equivalent here. In the documentary it was evident that Mclaren thought he would give Alonso a run for his money, he did not. Plain and simple.
That was a good drive, but that was certainly not memorable in my book. He was due to beat Alonso at some point, no? And if I remember correctly they were running different setups for that race, and the following races Alonso went back to dominating him. We know he was off the pace more often than not but taking that aside when has Vandoorne ever displayed great racecraft in F1? To be honest, I've seen more racecraft from Lance Stroll than I've seen from him. It seems a lot of people want the guy to be regarded as great but his first year was actually very mediocre.Exediron wrote:Malaysia? Finished 7th, solidly outqualifying and outracing Alonso?kleefton wrote:Only through biased lenses you could say that. He was underwhelming, Alonso taken into account or not. He has not had one drive that is memorable so far. If he is to be so great he would already have one or a few, even in a difficult car. I am not saying he was awful, but he was definitely not top tier material. This is a guy that was touted to be better than Vettel and Hamilton, completely dominated his junior career. We are not talking about a Sirotkin equivalent here. In the documentary it was evident that Mclaren thought he would give Alonso a run for his money, he did not. Plain and simple.
Nobody with any experience of F1 would expect Vandoorne to look Alonso's equal. That includes Mclaren. Nobody reasonable would expect someone to be "great" or "top tier" in his rookie year either. He did fine. Alonso is the best driver in F1 and even he was restricted to a couple of memorable performances in quali. Not much a driver can do in a car that is slow and woefully unreliable.kleefton wrote:Only through biased lenses you could say that. He was underwhelming, Alonso taken into account or not. He has not had one drive that is memorable so far. If he is to be so great he would already have one or a few, even in a difficult car. I am not saying he was awful, but he was definitely not top tier material. This is a guy that was touted to be better than Vettel and Hamilton, completely dominated his junior career. We are not talking about a Sirotkin equivalent here. In the documentary it was evident that Mclaren thought he would give Alonso a run for his money, he did not. Plain and simple.mikeyg123 wrote:I think Vandoorne did OK. Alonso's just better. I doubt anybody seriously expected Vandoorne to be much better in his rookie year. Bottas is the only driver on the grid to outscore an experienced team mate in their rookie years. Quality drivers usually make a big improvement in their second season.kleefton wrote:Watching this, it's clear Mclaren suffered two huge disappointments in 2017, one was Honda and the other was Vandoorne. Both were expected great things of, both failed, especially Honda. It's clear now that they had to hold onto Alonso at any cost, and in order to do that, Honda had to be let go. Still think it's an unbelievable documentary albeit too short.
Yes, i thought that too... seemed like McLaren had their own problems before Honda had even arrived....Herb wrote:Back on the subject...
I also enjoyed it, hoping there's a 2nd series from this season.
I was surprised that the main problem running up to testing for McLaren last year wasn't the engine, but problems getting the floor together.
Although the look on the engineers faces when talking about anyhing to do with Honda was hilarious.
Who would you say are the main people that need sending into the wilderness?GingerFurball wrote:There's a couple of people within McLaren that need pensioned off with Ron judging by that documentary.
They'll get top 5 for almost certain. The interesting thing will be how they stack up against Red Bull and Renault. At worse they have to be close to Red Bull.Seanie wrote:They need to be top 5 this year at least. Im not convinced the engine switch will be the magic bullet they need to get back to the top 3.
I don't think a series that is entirely devoted to an F1 team is off topic.dannyjames8 wrote:Shouldn't this be in the off topic category?
- going back to the old F1 drivers on top gear debate.
That's just a bunch of boloney. You seem to get your panties in a bunch everytime I say something about Vandoorne. And I didn't say that he had to be Alonso's equal. I just think, with all the hype surrounding him before he got to F1, he should have been closer and that he should have shown more on track. Causing an accident while being overtaken (In Bahrain?) is the main thing I remember him for on track. Not good. And in my view, he was more off the pace compared to Alonso than Raikonnen was. And Raikonnen has been a below average driver since he rejoined Ferrari. Which begs me to question, who are the drivers Vandoorne faced in the junior series? Anyone of them made it to F1 and were successful? It may be that his success in the junior series was against mediocre talent. In this case him having any real success in F1 is highly questionable.mikeyg123 wrote:Nobody with any experience of F1 would expect Vandoorne to look Alonso's equal. That includes Mclaren. Nobody reasonable would expect someone to be "great" or "top tier" in his rookie year either. He did fine. Alonso is the best driver in F1 and even he was restricted to a couple of memorable performances in quali. Not much a driver can do in a car that is slow and woefully unreliable.kleefton wrote:Only through biased lenses you could say that. He was underwhelming, Alonso taken into account or not. He has not had one drive that is memorable so far. If he is to be so great he would already have one or a few, even in a difficult car. I am not saying he was awful, but he was definitely not top tier material. This is a guy that was touted to be better than Vettel and Hamilton, completely dominated his junior career. We are not talking about a Sirotkin equivalent here. In the documentary it was evident that Mclaren thought he would give Alonso a run for his money, he did not. Plain and simple.mikeyg123 wrote:I think Vandoorne did OK. Alonso's just better. I doubt anybody seriously expected Vandoorne to be much better in his rookie year. Bottas is the only driver on the grid to outscore an experienced team mate in their rookie years. Quality drivers usually make a big improvement in their second season.kleefton wrote:Watching this, it's clear Mclaren suffered two huge disappointments in 2017, one was Honda and the other was Vandoorne. Both were expected great things of, both failed, especially Honda. It's clear now that they had to hold onto Alonso at any cost, and in order to do that, Honda had to be let go. Still think it's an unbelievable documentary albeit too short.
Which bit of what I wrote is "baloney"? Any specifics? What don't you agree with there?kleefton wrote:That's just a bunch of boloney. You seem to get your panties in a bunch everytime I say something about Vandoorne. And I didn't say that he had to be Alonso's equal. I just think, with all the hype surrounding him before he got to F1, he should have been closer and that he should have shown more on track. Causing an accident while being overtaken (In Bahrain?) is the main thing I remember him for on track. Not good. And in my view, he was more off the pace compared to Alonso than Raikonnen was. And Raikonnen has been a below average driver since he rejoined Ferrari. Which begs me to question, who are the drivers Vandoorne faced in the junior series? Anyone of them made it to F1 and were successful? It may be that his success in the junior series was against mediocre talent. In this case him having any real success in F1 is highly questionable.mikeyg123 wrote:Nobody with any experience of F1 would expect Vandoorne to look Alonso's equal. That includes Mclaren. Nobody reasonable would expect someone to be "great" or "top tier" in his rookie year either. He did fine. Alonso is the best driver in F1 and even he was restricted to a couple of memorable performances in quali. Not much a driver can do in a car that is slow and woefully unreliable.kleefton wrote:Only through biased lenses you could say that. He was underwhelming, Alonso taken into account or not. He has not had one drive that is memorable so far. If he is to be so great he would already have one or a few, even in a difficult car. I am not saying he was awful, but he was definitely not top tier material. This is a guy that was touted to be better than Vettel and Hamilton, completely dominated his junior career. We are not talking about a Sirotkin equivalent here. In the documentary it was evident that Mclaren thought he would give Alonso a run for his money, he did not. Plain and simple.mikeyg123 wrote:I think Vandoorne did OK. Alonso's just better. I doubt anybody seriously expected Vandoorne to be much better in his rookie year. Bottas is the only driver on the grid to outscore an experienced team mate in their rookie years. Quality drivers usually make a big improvement in their second season.kleefton wrote:Watching this, it's clear Mclaren suffered two huge disappointments in 2017, one was Honda and the other was Vandoorne. Both were expected great things of, both failed, especially Honda. It's clear now that they had to hold onto Alonso at any cost, and in order to do that, Honda had to be let go. Still think it's an unbelievable documentary albeit too short.