Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

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Driver(s) of the day was / were:-

1. Lewis Hamilton
60
36%
2. Valtteri Bottas
24
14%
3. Sebastian Vettel
4
2%
4. Kimi Raikkonen
31
18%
5. Daniel Ricciardo
0
No votes
6. Max Verstappen
1
1%
7. Sergio Perez
8
5%
8. Esteban Ocon
8
5%
9. Sergey Sirotkin
0
No votes
10. Lance Stroll
10
6%
11. Fernando Alonso
0
No votes
12. Stoffel Vandoorne
0
No votes
13. Pierre Gasly
0
No votes
14. Brandon Hartley
0
No votes
15. Romain Grosjean
20
12%
16. Kevin Magnussen
0
No votes
17. Nico Hulkenberg
2
1%
18. Carlos Sainz
0
No votes
19. Marcus Ericsson
0
No votes
20. Charles Leclerc
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 168

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UnlikeUday
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Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by UnlikeUday »

For me,

Hamilton, Verstappen & Perez
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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by JN23 »

UnlikeUday wrote:For me,

Hamilton, Verstappen & Perez


Verstappen despite his dangerous/stupid move on Bottas?

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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by JN23 »

Hamilton, Grosjean and Stroll for me.

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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by froze »

Hamilton, Raikkonen, Bottas, because:

Hamilton: Was hanging in there and managed to make it stick when it mattered.
Raikkonen: There is nothing he could've done better after being sandwiched by the Mercs. Not a foot wrong in the whole weekend, but lost to Merc's team effort.
Bottas: Basically the instigator in Hamilton's win. Did a tremendous favor for his teammate.
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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by Lojik »

froze wrote:Hamilton, Raikkonen, Bottas, because:

Hamilton: Was hanging in there and managed to make it stick when it mattered.
Raikkonen: There is nothing he could've done better after being sandwiched by the Mercs. Not a foot wrong in the whole weekend, but lost to Merc's team effort.
Bottas: Basically the instigator in Hamilton's win. Did a tremendous favor for his teammate.


:thumbup:

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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by UnlikeUday »

JN23 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:For me,

Hamilton, Verstappen & Perez


Verstappen despite his dangerous/stupid move on Bottas?


Verstappen for being competitive enough on a power track. Ricciardo was never close to him anywhere throughout the weekend.
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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by Flash2k11 »

Went Hamilton, Bottas and Grosjean

Hamilton was flawless. Bottas did _the_ job on Raikonnen and contributed as much to the win as Hamilton himself. Grosjean for keeping it tidy and winning the B league.
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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by wolfticket »

Hamilton, Raikkonen and Grosjean for me.
===\ō͡≡\ō͡≡o˞̶ ===\ō͡≡\ō͡≡o˞̶ ===\ō͡≡\ō͡≡o˞̶ ===\ō͡≡\ō͡≡o˞̶ ===\ō͡≡\ō͡≡o˞̶===

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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

Hamilton!
Grosjean, Stroll

Speechless about Vettel - another top result he threw away all by himself. The fourth this season alone.

Ferrari has the best car, but its drivers ...

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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by j man »

Top drawer stuff from Hamilton today. A worthy winner.

Credit to Grosjean as best of the rest, he's really turned things around after his disastrous start to the year. Perhaps he's not finished in F1 yet...

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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by Laz_T800 »

Voted, for the podium guys.
Best race from Lewis for many years.

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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by Lt. Drebin »

HAM
GRO
STR
The end is near

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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by Zoue »

Lojik wrote:
froze wrote:Hamilton, Raikkonen, Bottas, because:

Hamilton: Was hanging in there and managed to make it stick when it mattered.
Raikkonen: There is nothing he could've done better after being sandwiched by the Mercs. Not a foot wrong in the whole weekend, but lost to Merc's team effort.
Bottas: Basically the instigator in Hamilton's win. Did a tremendous favor for his teammate.


:thumbup:

:thumbup:

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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

I think it is between Hamilton, Kimi, Bottas and Grosjean. Bottas though did not have a good start, but I don't believe his pace was lacking today. That Red Bull looked to be set up very well for the race. Once Verstappen pitted, he certainly stepped on it and did some very good team work. Then when he did pit, he was very quick indeed. And it will have almost certainly looked the same as Hamilton's pass on Kimi. Bottas had easily done enough to get the pass. And given what Verstappen did earlier, then this, I don't blame Bottas for not trying anything else really. But if it wasn't for Verstappen doing what he did, Bottas likely will have been between 5 and 10 seconds further up, likely managing to find a way past Kimi conciderign his tyres. This was a good day for Bottas despite his bad start and underwhelming performance in practice and qualifying. He also really helped Hamilton win by holding Kimi up. Just a shame that Verstappen prevented a good overtake by some very dirty driving. Doing soemthing like that when he'd already been warned is so poor.

Kimi's start and fight with Hamilton was brilliant. The team did pit him too early, but I think his driving style didn't help his tyre life. He looked to give the tyred quitea battering the way he drove over some kerbs. Still a very solid race, but it is between him and Bottas that I'm unsure who to vote for. Given I think Bottas will have got past without Verstappen messign his race up, I think I may go for Bottas.

Grosjean has really got himself togeather now. I have thought all season that he is actually able to perform better than Magnussen. But he just hasn't been on that level enough this season for me to say he's a better driver than his team mate. But I do think he's a fair bit faster when he keeps things clean. Today was one of those weekends. Excellent from him.

Hamilton was not far off Ferrari in qualifying, which was pretty good considering the pace advantage Ferrari had. Hamilton's overtake was good, but soon got undone. But he kept very close to Kimi all the time. I still have to say that Bottas really helped back Kimi into Hamilton. But even so, that Overtake Hamilton did looked great. A bit of help from his team mate, but still a really strong race. Did better than 2 stronger cars. But if anything, I may be able to say that Bottas did too.

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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by JN23 »

Laz_T800 wrote:Voted, for the podium guys.
Best race from Lewis for many years.


The other that impressed me with Lewis today was how feisty/aggressive he got at the start. I've not seen that from him for some time - maybe he knew he had to make a move at the start to have a chance of beating at least one Ferrari?

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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

I maybe should give some credit to Stroll. He obviously had a solid race, but I think it is much more to do with the Williams suiting this track. It wasn't just him that was in this position, his team mate was close. Williams in the past has suddenly got much better here. Remember 2016. At this stage of the season, it looked like Force Indid had started to get the better of Williams. But Botats suddenly outqualified both Red Bulls. Some credit can go to him, but the car clearly was better here than at other tracks. So I think that is one reason why Stroll has managed to finish ahead of other teams. But then also remember Ricciardo retired. Don't want to be harsh, but I'm sure it is more the car than Stroll suddenly being good.

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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by Flash2k11 »

JN23 wrote:
Laz_T800 wrote:Voted, for the podium guys.
Best race from Lewis for many years.


The other that impressed me with Lewis today was how feisty/aggressive he got at the start. I've not seen that from him for some time - maybe he knew he had to make a move at the start to have a chance of beating at least one Ferrari?


I think Wolff gave the game away on that front on the grid pre race, he said the start was the oppertunity.
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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by F1-Dave »

Flash2k11 wrote:Went Hamilton, Bottas and Grosjean

Hamilton was flawless. Bottas did _the_ job on Raikonnen and contributed as much to the win as Hamilton himself. Grosjean for keeping it tidy and winning the B league.


This for me. Hamilton for not putting a wheel wrong, Bottas for engineering the race win, and Grosjean for being best of the rest.

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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by Jezza13 »

Grosjean for an uneventful drive to 6th
Raikonnen for taking it to the Mercs
Bottas for knowing his place and setting up the win for Hamilton

Honorable mention to James Vowes for great strategy & Max Verstappen for continuing to prove speed isn't all it takes to be a good driver
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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by Jezza13 »

UnlikeUday wrote:
JN23 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:For me,

Hamilton, Verstappen & Perez


Verstappen despite his dangerous/stupid move on Bottas?


Verstappen for being competitive enough on a power track. Ricciardo was never close to him anywhere throughout the weekend.


Except when he was 4/10ths quicker than him in FP1 and a 10th slower in FP2.
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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by FormulaFun »

Jezza13 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
JN23 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:For me,

Hamilton, Verstappen & Perez


Verstappen despite his dangerous/stupid move on Bottas?


Verstappen for being competitive enough on a power track. Ricciardo was never close to him anywhere throughout the weekend.


Except when he was 4/10ths quicker than him in FP1 and a 10th slower in FP2.


Wouldn't really read much into practice times, verstappen was deffo superior in terms of pace this time. Shame he doesn't have Riccardo's race craft. Not really a fan of verstappen tho tbh.

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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by Jezza13 »

FormulaFun wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
JN23 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:For me,

Hamilton, Verstappen & Perez


Verstappen despite his dangerous/stupid move on Bottas?


Verstappen for being competitive enough on a power track. Ricciardo was never close to him anywhere throughout the weekend.


Except when he was 4/10ths quicker than him in FP1 and a 10th slower in FP2.


Wouldn't really read much into practice times, verstappen was deffo superior in terms of pace this time. Shame he doesn't have Riccardo's race craft. Not really a fan of verstappen tho tbh.


In the context of the statement practice times are relevant.
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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by UnlikeUday »

Jezza13 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
JN23 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:For me,

Hamilton, Verstappen & Perez


Verstappen despite his dangerous/stupid move on Bottas?


Verstappen for being competitive enough on a power track. Ricciardo was never close to him anywhere throughout the weekend.


Except when he was 4/10ths quicker than him in FP1 and a 10th slower in FP2.


Sadly, I'm expecting Ricciardo's car to keep suffering issues. Red Bull will never digest the fact he's leaving them unceremoniously!
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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by Mort Canard »

Hamilton & Raikkonen for the racelong battle at the front.

For being the best of the rest champion Grosjean. If he keeps this up he may keep his seat.

Honorable mention to Valtteri Bottas for keeping himself in competition today despite not being comfortable with the car today and having to drive to team orders.
Last edited by Mort Canard on Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by sandman1347 »

Hamilton-Top drive! Loads of attacking and defending and never put a wheel wrong in the process. The top drivers are controlled AND on the limit and it's great to watch a driver perform with aggression and still remain fully under control.

Grosjean-Quiet performance bet easily the best of the rest outside of the big three teams. Ro-Gro has legitimate pace. Perhaps he's too mistake prone and inconsistent to ever truly interest the very best teams but his pace is undeniable.

Honorable mention Raikkonen and Bottas-Both Finns performed admirably today. I thought Raikkonen fought hard against a hard-charging Hamilton and really held his own for the msot part. He just ran out of tire at the end after being double teamed early in his last stint. The teamwork by Valteri with lewis was effective in this race and Bottas really helped Hamilton to win while maximizing his own result.

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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by MB-BOB »

froze wrote:Hamilton, Raikkonen, Bottas, because:

Hamilton: Was hanging in there and managed to make it stick when it mattered.
Raikkonen: There is nothing he could've done better after being sandwiched by the Mercs. Not a foot wrong in the whole weekend, but lost to Merc's team effort.
Bottas: Basically the instigator in Hamilton's win. Did a tremendous favor for his teammate.


Right on all points... :thumbup:
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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by Dash33 »

froze wrote:Hamilton, Raikkonen, Bottas, because:
Yes, thank god for Bottas otherwise Hamilton would just be another also ran.... dont be silly, Hamilton was clearly the fastest guy out tere today. He didnt need anyones help.

Hamilton: Was hanging in there and managed to make it stick when it mattered.
Raikkonen: There is nothing he could've done better after being sandwiched by the Mercs. Not a foot wrong in the whole weekend, but lost to Merc's team effort.
Bottas: Basically the instigator in Hamilton's win. Did a tremendous favor for his teammate.

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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by Dash33 »

Flash2k11 wrote:Went Hamilton, Bottas and Grosjean

Hamilton was flawless. Bottas did _the_ job on Raikonnen and contributed as much to the win as Hamilton himself. Grosjean for keeping it tidy and winning the B league.


Another silly comment. Bottas contributed as much to Hamiltons win as Hamilton? Personally I think that was as good a drive as Ive witnessed Hamilton deliver. No help from Bottas was required, even though some was given.

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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by JN23 »

Mort Canard wrote:Hamilton & Raikkonen for the racelong battle at the front.

For being the best of the rest champion Grosjean. If he keeps this up he may keep his seat.

Honorable mention to Valtteri Bottas for keeping himself in competition today despite not being comfortable with the car today and having to drive to team orders.


If he hadn't had an awful first eight races then he could very easily be seventh ahead of Hulk. He's only seventeen points behind him.

In the last six races he's scored in five and retired in the other. In those six races no one outside of the top six has scored more than him. He's also scored more than Ricciardo in that time but that's partly down to four retirements for Daniel.

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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by Dash33 »

MB-BOB wrote:
froze wrote:Hamilton, Raikkonen, Bottas, because:

Hamilton: Was hanging in there and managed to make it stick when it mattered.
Raikkonen: There is nothing he could've done better after being sandwiched by the Mercs. Not a foot wrong in the whole weekend, but lost to Merc's team effort.
Bottas: Basically the instigator in Hamilton's win. Did a tremendous favor for his teammate.


Right on all points... :thumbup:


Except Hamilton engineered his win, not Bottas. Bottas helped bunch them up but I think Hamilton would have caught and passed KR regardless.

A phenomenal race from Hamilton that should not be credited to Bottas

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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by Flash2k11 »

Dash33 wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:Went Hamilton, Bottas and Grosjean

Hamilton was flawless. Bottas did _the_ job on Raikonnen and contributed as much to the win as Hamilton himself. Grosjean for keeping it tidy and winning the B league.


Another silly comment. Bottas contributed as much to Hamiltons win as Hamilton? Personally I think that was as good a drive as Ive witnessed Hamilton deliver. No help from Bottas was required, even though some was given.


Behave, Kimi may well have burnt his tyres going for gold when undercutting Hamilton, but Bottas backing him up lap upon lap, his dirty air contributing to Kimi's tyre problem and then allowing Hamilton to close up quickly without taking the life out of his tyres absolute contributed to Hamilton winning.

As said, Hamilton was flawless, but flawless would not have been good enough today without help from firstly Ferrari, and secondly from Bottas.
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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by Mort Canard »

Flash2k11 wrote:
Dash33 wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:Went Hamilton, Bottas and Grosjean

Hamilton was flawless. Bottas did _the_ job on Raikonnen and contributed as much to the win as Hamilton himself. Grosjean for keeping it tidy and winning the B league.


Another silly comment. Bottas contributed as much to Hamiltons win as Hamilton? Personally I think that was as good a drive as Ive witnessed Hamilton deliver. No help from Bottas was required, even though some was given.


Behave, Kimi may well have burnt his tyres going for gold when undercutting Hamilton, but Bottas backing him up lap upon lap, his dirty air contributing to Kimi's tyre problem and then allowing Hamilton to close up quickly without taking the life out of his tyres absolute contributed to Hamilton winning.

As said, Hamilton was flawless, but flawless would not have been good enough today without help from firstly Ferrari, and secondly from Bottas.


I'm not entirely sure that Hamilton would have been able to get by Kimi if Kimi had just been in race management mode and taking care of his tires, instead of trying to get by Bottas. Probably could have gone either way.

It was Kimi against two Silver Arrows and Lewis drive coupled with the Silver Arrows strategy won out. Great drive for Lewis and great teamwork for Merc.
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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by Dash33 »

Flash2k11 wrote:
Dash33 wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:Went Hamilton, Bottas and Grosjean

Hamilton was flawless. Bottas did _the_ job on Raikonnen and contributed as much to the win as Hamilton himself. Grosjean for keeping it tidy and winning the B league.


Silly to state that without Bottas he wouldn't have won.

Another silly comment. Bottas contributed as much to Hamiltons win as Hamilton? Personally I think that was as good a drive as Ive witnessed Hamilton deliver. No help from Bottas was required, even though some was given.


Behave, Kimi may well have burnt his tyres going for gold when undercutting Hamilton, but Bottas backing him up lap upon lap, his dirty air contributing to Kimi's tyre problem and then allowing Hamilton to close up quickly without taking the life out of his tyres absolute contributed to Hamilton winning.

As said, Hamilton was flawless, but flawless would not have been good enough today without help from firstly Ferrari, and secondly from Bottas.


There are many factors in a race but you categorically state that Hamilton would not have won without Bottas. I think that's silly. My opinion is that he was clearly the fastest guy out there and, as you state, he drove flawlessly. So I would credit him with the win, simple as that. You can speculate but it is Hamilton who raced and won. One Ferrari made an error and the other wasn't quite fast enough on the day.

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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by Zoue »

Flash2k11 wrote:
Dash33 wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:Went Hamilton, Bottas and Grosjean

Hamilton was flawless. Bottas did _the_ job on Raikonnen and contributed as much to the win as Hamilton himself. Grosjean for keeping it tidy and winning the B league.


Another silly comment. Bottas contributed as much to Hamiltons win as Hamilton? Personally I think that was as good a drive as Ive witnessed Hamilton deliver. No help from Bottas was required, even though some was given.


Behave, Kimi may well have burnt his tyres going for gold when undercutting Hamilton, but Bottas backing him up lap upon lap, his dirty air contributing to Kimi's tyre problem and then allowing Hamilton to close up quickly without taking the life out of his tyres absolute contributed to Hamilton winning.

As said, Hamilton was flawless, but flawless would not have been good enough today without help from firstly Ferrari, and secondly from Bottas.

I tend to agree here. It was a combination of events. Hamilton drove well but the combination of Ferrari rear tyre wear (I say Ferrari as it happened to Vettel too) and Bottas holding Kimi up allowed Hamilton to catch Kimi and eventually pass him. Without those two events it's probable Kimi would have stayed out in front

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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by Zoue »

Dash33 wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
Dash33 wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:Went Hamilton, Bottas and Grosjean

Hamilton was flawless. Bottas did _the_ job on Raikonnen and contributed as much to the win as Hamilton himself. Grosjean for keeping it tidy and winning the B league.


Silly to state that without Bottas he wouldn't have won.

Another silly comment. Bottas contributed as much to Hamiltons win as Hamilton? Personally I think that was as good a drive as Ive witnessed Hamilton deliver. No help from Bottas was required, even though some was given.


Behave, Kimi may well have burnt his tyres going for gold when undercutting Hamilton, but Bottas backing him up lap upon lap, his dirty air contributing to Kimi's tyre problem and then allowing Hamilton to close up quickly without taking the life out of his tyres absolute contributed to Hamilton winning.

As said, Hamilton was flawless, but flawless would not have been good enough today without help from firstly Ferrari, and secondly from Bottas.


There are many factors in a race but you categorically state that Hamilton would not have won without Bottas. I think that's silly. My opinion is that he was clearly the fastest guy out there and, as you state, he drove flawlessly. So I would credit him with the win, simple as that. You can speculate but it is Hamilton who raced and won. One Ferrari made an error and the other wasn't quite fast enough on the day.
It's not silly to recognise factors at play. Nor does it discredit Hamilton to acknowledge that other events helped him secure his win. Bottas allowed Hamilton to close the gap, and then Kimi's struggles with the tyres allowed him to overtake. Without both of those factors it looked like Kimi had enough to secure the win, even though Hamilton did ultimately look faster

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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by Dash33 »

Zoue wrote:
Dash33 wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
Dash33 wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:Went Hamilton, Bottas and Grosjean

Hamilton was flawless. Bottas did _the_ job on Raikonnen and contributed as much to the win as Hamilton himself. Grosjean for keeping it tidy and winning the B league.


Silly to state that without Bottas he wouldn't have won.

Another silly comment. Bottas contributed as much to Hamiltons win as Hamilton? Personally I think that was as good a drive as Ive witnessed Hamilton deliver. No help from Bottas was required, even though some was given.


Behave, Kimi may well have burnt his tyres going for gold when undercutting Hamilton, but Bottas backing him up lap upon lap, his dirty air contributing to Kimi's tyre problem and then allowing Hamilton to close up quickly without taking the life out of his tyres absolute contributed to Hamilton winning.

As said, Hamilton was flawless, but flawless would not have been good enough today without help from firstly Ferrari, and secondly from Bottas.


There are many factors in a race but you categorically state that Hamilton would not have won without Bottas. I think that's silly. My opinion is that he was clearly the fastest guy out there and, as you state, he drove flawlessly. So I would credit him with the win, simple as that. You can speculate but it is Hamilton who raced and won. One Ferrari made an error and the other wasn't quite fast enough on the day.
It's not silly to recognise factors at play. Nor does it discredit Hamilton to acknowledge that other events helped him secure his win. Bottas allowed Hamilton to close the gap, and then Kimi's struggles with the tyres allowed him to overtake. Without both of those factors it looked like Kimi had enough to secure the win, even though Hamilton did ultimately look faster



Its not silly to take other factors in to account but to say he wouldn't have won without it is, in my opinion. I think he would have likely won without Bottas.

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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by Zoue »

Dash33 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Dash33 wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
Behave, Kimi may well have burnt his tyres going for gold when undercutting Hamilton, but Bottas backing him up lap upon lap, his dirty air contributing to Kimi's tyre problem and then allowing Hamilton to close up quickly without taking the life out of his tyres absolute contributed to Hamilton winning.

As said, Hamilton was flawless, but flawless would not have been good enough today without help from firstly Ferrari, and secondly from Bottas.


There are many factors in a race but you categorically state that Hamilton would not have won without Bottas. I think that's silly. My opinion is that he was clearly the fastest guy out there and, as you state, he drove flawlessly. So I would credit him with the win, simple as that. You can speculate but it is Hamilton who raced and won. One Ferrari made an error and the other wasn't quite fast enough on the day.
It's not silly to recognise factors at play. Nor does it discredit Hamilton to acknowledge that other events helped him secure his win. Bottas allowed Hamilton to close the gap, and then Kimi's struggles with the tyres allowed him to overtake. Without both of those factors it looked like Kimi had enough to secure the win, even though Hamilton did ultimately look faster



Its not silly to take other factors in to account but to say he wouldn't have won without it is, in my opinion. I think he would have likely won without Bottas.

It's possible that he may have won, but it's equally possible that he may not have. Like it or not Bottas' actions and Kiimi's tyres did influence the outcome and the only real question is to what degree. It's hardly silly to take a position on that

j man
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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by j man »

Zoue wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
Dash33 wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:Went Hamilton, Bottas and Grosjean

Hamilton was flawless. Bottas did _the_ job on Raikonnen and contributed as much to the win as Hamilton himself. Grosjean for keeping it tidy and winning the B league.


Another silly comment. Bottas contributed as much to Hamiltons win as Hamilton? Personally I think that was as good a drive as Ive witnessed Hamilton deliver. No help from Bottas was required, even though some was given.


Behave, Kimi may well have burnt his tyres going for gold when undercutting Hamilton, but Bottas backing him up lap upon lap, his dirty air contributing to Kimi's tyre problem and then allowing Hamilton to close up quickly without taking the life out of his tyres absolute contributed to Hamilton winning.

As said, Hamilton was flawless, but flawless would not have been good enough today without help from firstly Ferrari, and secondly from Bottas.

I tend to agree here. It was a combination of events. Hamilton drove well but the combination of Ferrari rear tyre wear (I say Ferrari as it happened to Vettel too) and Bottas holding Kimi up allowed Hamilton to catch Kimi and eventually pass him. Without those two events it's probable Kimi would have stayed out in front

If you ask me Hamilton would have won anyway given how dramatically Kimi's tyres fell off the cliff at the end. We can point to the laps he spent following Bottas but I think it was more due to him being forced to push hard early on in the stint to match Hamilton's pace, after all Vettel had the same issues and Hamilton himself was able to follow Kimi for many laps without the dirty air giving him excessive tyre wear.

I see people claiming that Hamilton won in an inferior car today but I don't believe that is the case. The Mercedes may have been slower but the Ferrari cannot be considered to have been the best car this weekend if it couldn't keep its tyres in shape over a normal race stint.

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KingVoid
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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by KingVoid »

Hamilton was incredible today.

I don't understand the votes for Kimi.

Zoue
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Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2018 Italian Grand Prix

Post by Zoue »

j man wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
Dash33 wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:Went Hamilton, Bottas and Grosjean

Hamilton was flawless. Bottas did _the_ job on Raikonnen and contributed as much to the win as Hamilton himself. Grosjean for keeping it tidy and winning the B league.


Another silly comment. Bottas contributed as much to Hamiltons win as Hamilton? Personally I think that was as good a drive as Ive witnessed Hamilton deliver. No help from Bottas was required, even though some was given.


Behave, Kimi may well have burnt his tyres going for gold when undercutting Hamilton, but Bottas backing him up lap upon lap, his dirty air contributing to Kimi's tyre problem and then allowing Hamilton to close up quickly without taking the life out of his tyres absolute contributed to Hamilton winning.

As said, Hamilton was flawless, but flawless would not have been good enough today without help from firstly Ferrari, and secondly from Bottas.

I tend to agree here. It was a combination of events. Hamilton drove well but the combination of Ferrari rear tyre wear (I say Ferrari as it happened to Vettel too) and Bottas holding Kimi up allowed Hamilton to catch Kimi and eventually pass him. Without those two events it's probable Kimi would have stayed out in front

If you ask me Hamilton would have won anyway given how dramatically Kimi's tyres fell off the cliff at the end. We can point to the laps he spent following Bottas but I think it was more due to him being forced to push hard early on in the stint to match Hamilton's pace, after all Vettel had the same issues and Hamilton himself was able to follow Kimi for many laps without the dirty air giving him excessive tyre wear.

I see people claiming that Hamilton won in an inferior car today but I don't believe that is the case. The Mercedes may have been slower but the Ferrari cannot be considered to have been the best car this weekend if it couldn't keep its tyres in shape over a normal race stint.

It is of course possible that Kimi's tyres may have gone anyway, but they were undoubtedly hurt by the time he spent behind Bottas and he had a reasonably decent lead over Hamilton that he could afford to look after them properly without the added stress of having to do defensive driving. It's impossible to say to what extent, really. But if Kimi had not had the tyre issues then I think it's probable he would have stayed ahead

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