Vettel and pressure - according to Ric and Ham

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davidheath461
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Vettel and pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by davidheath461 »

Hamilton:

"Seb showed more nerves this season than before," Hamilton told Stuttgarter Nachrichten newspaper.

"None of us are superman, and everyone can fail under extreme pressure," Some reached that point sooner, others later.


http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns37927.html

Ricciardo:

"Looking at Lewis' season, I respect that," "For sure he had a good car but I think Seb's car was also as good and Lewis maintained a cooler head and a better level of consistency and composure. You have to respect that. In the heat of battle he was always very calm and he drove a very good season."


http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/216 ... ettel-2017
Last edited by Mod Blue on Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Changed title - doesnt match driver quotes.

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Blinky McSquinty
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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by Blinky McSquinty »

And the point of this exercise is ... ?

Oh, I get it, let's attempt to besmirch and put down drivers by pointing out the opinions by other drivers. Can I go next? Are any drivers immune? How about gingers, and can we body shame too?
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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by Ennis »

Blinky McSquinty wrote:And the point of this exercise is ... ?

Oh, I get it, let's attempt to besmirch and put down drivers by pointing out the opinions by other drivers. Can I go next? Are any drivers immune? How about gingers, and can we body shame too?


:uhoh:

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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by Rockie »

I'm sure if Vettel had an engine mode to go to that can save him in the race like the Merc drivers he would just have been fine.

Vettel delivered three of the best qualifying laps witnessed this this season.

As for Ricciardo when he gets to Vettels level he can talk, for now he should concentrate on being team leader at Redbull.

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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by mikeyg123 »

Vettel was better than Hamilton in the first part of the season, Hamilton better than Vettel in the second half. The difference between them largely was Baku.

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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by Blake »

davidheath461 wrote:Hamilton:

"Seb showed more nerves this season than before," Hamilton told Stuttgarter Nachrichten newspaper.

"None of us are superman, and everyone can fail under extreme pressure," Some reached that point sooner, others later.


http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns37927.html

Ricciardo:

"Looking at Lewis' season, I respect that," "For sure he had a good car but I think Seb's car was also as good and Lewis maintained a cooler head and a better level of consistency and composure. You have to respect that. In the heat of battle he was always very calm and he drove a very good season."


http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/216 ... ettel-2017


:lol:
From those quotes, you feel a general condemnation that Vettel cracks under pressure thread title is justified... lewis simply said that Seb showed more nerves this year while saying EVERYONE can fall to it... and thing saying that "none of US are superman" noting that he said "US" which would include himself.

As for Ricciado's comment, you only read what you wanted to see, not what Danny said. He never said a word about Seb cracking under pressure in your quote. What he did say is that Lewis handled it better, which can't be argued.

In other words... just another davidheath461 smear of Vettel in case we had forgotten the agenda.
;)
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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by Zoue »

davidheath461 wrote:Hamilton:

"Seb showed more nerves this season than before," Hamilton told Stuttgarter Nachrichten newspaper.

"None of us are superman, and everyone can fail under extreme pressure," Some reached that point sooner, others later.


http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns37927.html

Ricciardo:

"Looking at Lewis' season, I respect that," "For sure he had a good car but I think Seb's car was also as good and Lewis maintained a cooler head and a better level of consistency and composure. You have to respect that. In the heat of battle he was always very calm and he drove a very good season."


http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/216 ... ettel-2017

Not sure how you conclude from that that Vettel cracked under pressure? Oh, wait, I've just noticed who posted. Now I understand :-|

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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by KingVoid »

davidheath :lol:

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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

Rockie wrote:I'm sure if Vettel had an engine mode to go to that can save him in the race like the Merc drivers he would just have been fine.

Vettel delivered three of the best qualifying laps witnessed this this season.

As for Ricciardo when he gets to Vettels level he can talk, for now he should concentrate on being team leader at Redbull.


Well, Ricciardo beat Vettel very clearly when they were teammates; it was not even close. Ricciardo seems to be on ahigher level than Vettl. ;)

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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by davidheath461 »

Blake wrote:
As for Ricciado's comment, you only read what you wanted to see, not what Danny said. He never said a word about Seb cracking under pressure in your quote. What he did say is that Lewis handled it better, which can't be argued.

;)


So what happened to the notion that Vettel steps up a gear after the summer break, and performs when the title pressure is on? Ironically it was Hamilton who stepped up a gear, while Vettel only won 1 race after the summer break.

Hopefully that myth can finally be put to bed.

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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by Exediron »

davidheath461 wrote:So what happened to the notion that Vettel steps up a gear after the summer break, and performs when the title pressure is on? Ironically it was Hamilton who stepped up a gear, while Vettel only won 1 race after the summer break.

Hopefully that myth can finally be put to bed.

That myth has been put to bed ever since he left RBR, since it's become clearer with every passing season that the one who really steps it up after the summer break is Adrian Newey.
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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by Zoue »

davidheath461 wrote:
Blake wrote:
As for Ricciado's comment, you only read what you wanted to see, not what Danny said. He never said a word about Seb cracking under pressure in your quote. What he did say is that Lewis handled it better, which can't be argued.

;)


So what happened to the notion that Vettel steps up a gear after the summer break, and performs when the title pressure is on? Ironically it was Hamilton who stepped up a gear, while Vettel only won 1 race after the summer break.

Hopefully that myth can finally be put to bed.

up until this year he had done, so unclear why that was supposed to be a myth.

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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by davidheath461 »

Rockie wrote:I'm sure if Vettel had an engine mode to go to that can save him in the race like the Merc drivers he would just have been fine.

Vettel delivered three of the best qualifying laps witnessed this this season.


Singapore, Mexico and ?

I agree that the 2 above were excellent qualifying laps. :thumbup:

However, it's not much good getting pole if you crash into someone else on the first lap.

As for Ricciardo when he gets to Vettels level he can talk, for now he should concentrate on being team leader at Redbull.


Ricciardo already proved he was on (or above) Vettel's level in 2014.

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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by davidheath461 »

Zoue wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
Blake wrote:
As for Ricciado's comment, you only read what you wanted to see, not what Danny said. He never said a word about Seb cracking under pressure in your quote. What he did say is that Lewis handled it better, which can't be argued.

;)


So what happened to the notion that Vettel steps up a gear after the summer break, and performs when the title pressure is on? Ironically it was Hamilton who stepped up a gear, while Vettel only won 1 race after the summer break.

Hopefully that myth can finally be put to bed.

up until this year he had done, so unclear why that was supposed to be a myth.


so why didn't he do it this year?

Ah yes, because Newey wasn't there to give him a magical upgrade. ;)

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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by davidheath461 »

Exediron wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:So what happened to the notion that Vettel steps up a gear after the summer break, and performs when the title pressure is on? Ironically it was Hamilton who stepped up a gear, while Vettel only won 1 race after the summer break.

Hopefully that myth can finally be put to bed.

That myth has been put to bed ever since he left RBR, since it's become clearer with every passing season that the one who really steps it up after the summer break is Adrian Newey.


:thumbup: Well said

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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by Zoue »

davidheath461 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
Blake wrote:
As for Ricciado's comment, you only read what you wanted to see, not what Danny said. He never said a word about Seb cracking under pressure in your quote. What he did say is that Lewis handled it better, which can't be argued.

;)


So what happened to the notion that Vettel steps up a gear after the summer break, and performs when the title pressure is on? Ironically it was Hamilton who stepped up a gear, while Vettel only won 1 race after the summer break.

Hopefully that myth can finally be put to bed.

up until this year he had done, so unclear why that was supposed to be a myth.


so why didn't he do it this year?

Ah yes, because Newey wasn't there to give him a magical upgrade. ;)

So because he's done it in the past he has to do it every year?

Could be Newey, of course, although that doesn't explain why Mark never stepped up to the plate in the same way. But again, not sure why not doing it this year invalidates him doing it in seasons past? Strange logic

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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by Blake »

davidheath461 wrote:
Blake wrote:
As for Ricciado's comment, you only read what you wanted to see, not what Danny said. He never said a word about Seb cracking under pressure in your quote. What he did say is that Lewis handled it better, which can't be argued.

;)


So what happened to the notion that Vettel steps up a gear after the summer break, and performs when the title pressure is on? Ironically it was Hamilton who stepped up a gear, while Vettel only won 1 race after the summer break.

Hopefully that myth can finally be put to bed.

So that is your response to my post pointing out that your thread title name was untrue? That you apparently only saw what you wanted to see in Danny's actual comment. Diversion tactics yet again. LMAO.

I personally don't give a damn about some so-called myth, never did, nor did I ever use it. The sole purpose of your thread was to create yet another bash of Vettel, and other than attracting one of the forum's other continual Vettel critics, it has failed miserably, heath.
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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by P-F1 Mod »

I was about to lock this thread due to a blatant attempt by a known anti-Vettel poster to attack Vettel. The last few posts made me rethink, but I'm watching this one closely.

Also, please remember that calling out trolls in public doesn't actually help - report them and they'll be dealt with far more efficiently.
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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by Warheart01 »

I'm actually glad this is brought up. Vettel has had this reputation of ''never crumbling under pressure'', while Hamilton has had the opposite reputation for some strange reason. Always have I felt that it should be the other way around and the 2017 F1 season proved I was right.

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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by Zoue »

Warheart01 wrote:I'm actually glad this is brought up. Vettel has had this reputation of ''never crumbling under pressure'', while Hamilton has had the opposite reputation for some strange reason. Always have I felt that it should be the other way around and the 2017 F1 season proved I was right.

It really doesn't. In the past Vettel has usually finished the season really strongly. This time it wasn't to be. Doesn't prove a single thing, since every situation is different.

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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by davidheath461 »

Zoue wrote:So because he's done it in the past he has to do it every year?


The question i asked is why didn't he do it this year? It seems you can't answer that.

Vettel had the potential to win 4 races after the summer break. He only won 1.

1 of the races he didn't win was due to mechanical failure, the other 2 were because he crashed into other drivers.

Could be Newey, of course, although that doesn't explain why Mark never stepped up to the plate in the same way. But again, not sure why not doing it this year invalidates him doing it in seasons past? Strange logic


The idea is that we're trying to separate driver performance from car performance. And as you say it could have been Newey.

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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by davidheath461 »

Blake wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
Blake wrote:
As for Ricciado's comment, you only read what you wanted to see, not what Danny said. He never said a word about Seb cracking under pressure in your quote. What he did say is that Lewis handled it better, which can't be argued.

;)


So what happened to the notion that Vettel steps up a gear after the summer break, and performs when the title pressure is on? Ironically it was Hamilton who stepped up a gear, while Vettel only won 1 race after the summer break.

Hopefully that myth can finally be put to bed.

So that is your response to my post pointing out that your thread title name was untrue? That you apparently only saw what you wanted to see in Danny's actual comment. Diversion tactics yet again. LMAO.

I personally don't give a damn about some so-called myth, never did, nor did I ever use it. The sole purpose of your thread was to create yet another bash of Vettel, and other than attracting one of the forum's other continual Vettel critics, it has failed miserably, heath.


I was just using the title provided by the article provider (grandprix.com). If you're not happy with it then i suggest you contact that website. I'm not hear to argue semantics.

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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by mikeyg123 »

davidheath461 wrote:
Zoue wrote:So because he's done it in the past he has to do it every year?


The question i asked is why didn't he do it this year? It seems you can't answer that.

Vettel had the potential to win 4 races after the summer break. He only won 1.

1 of the races he didn't win was due to mechanical failure, the other 2 were because he crashed into other drivers.

Could be Newey, of course, although that doesn't explain why Mark never stepped up to the plate in the same way. But again, not sure why not doing it this year invalidates him doing it in seasons past? Strange logic


The idea is that we're trying to separate driver performance from car performance. And as you say it could have been Newey.


Vettel clearly stepped up a level towards the end of the season in years gone past. I fail to see how Vettel not being able to do that this year changes that.

If Hamilton performs poorly in the next wet weather race does that mean his 4 year unbeaten run in the wet didn't happen?

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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by davidheath461 »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Vettel clearly stepped up a level towards the end of the season in years gone past. I fail to see how Vettel not being able to do that this year changes that.


2010 - he just stopped making silly mistakes and started doing what he should have been doing all season (i.e. winning from pole).

2011 - no step up in performance after the summer break.

2012 - The Newey upgrades at Singapore/Japan is clearly what brought him back into contention. 3 front row lockouts for Red Bull between Japan and India which was massive in a season like 2012.

2013 - Tyre changes played into Red Bull's hands. He was also performing very well before the summer break.

I don't really see how it's clear that Vettel stepped up in previous years.

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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by Rockie »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Rockie wrote:I'm sure if Vettel had an engine mode to go to that can save him in the race like the Merc drivers he would just have been fine.

Vettel delivered three of the best qualifying laps witnessed this this season.

As for Ricciardo when he gets to Vettels level he can talk, for now he should concentrate on being team leader at Redbull.


Well, Ricciardo beat Vettel very clearly when they were teammates; it was not even close. Ricciardo seems to be on ahigher level than Vettl. ;)


When he has 4 titles, we can have this discussion again or he beats Max without reliability issues.

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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by Rockie »

davidheath461 wrote:
Rockie wrote:I'm sure if Vettel had an engine mode to go to that can save him in the race like the Merc drivers he would just have been fine.

Vettel delivered three of the best qualifying laps witnessed this this season.


Singapore, Mexico and ?

I agree that the 2 above were excellent qualifying laps. :thumbup:

However, it's not much good getting pole if you crash into someone else on the first lap.

As for Ricciardo when he gets to Vettels level he can talk, for now he should concentrate on being team leader at Redbull.


Ricciardo already proved he was on (or above) Vettel's level in 2014.


Austin


Well like I said one swallow does not make a summer right now Max has his number.

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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by Lt. Drebin »

You can really single out only Baku, yet even that was not "under pressure" but because Hamilton did not accelerate out of the corner and therefore started a chain of events. Now, you can feel free to pee on the wounded lion, but the lion will come alive for the beginning of the next season, so beware!

Go Vettel! 8)
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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by Rockie »

Warheart01 wrote:I'm actually glad this is brought up. Vettel has had this reputation of ''never crumbling under pressure'', while Hamilton has had the opposite reputation for some strange reason. Always have I felt that it should be the other way around and the 2017 F1 season proved I was right.


Yup just like '14 proved you right smh.

It's as if Vettel naysayers wait till he does wrong and then go you see I told you so.

What is most funny is Hamilton could not hold a candle to Vettel in the 1st half of the season, and I reckon had Malaysia and Japan turbo and spark plug failure not happened this cracking under pressure nonsense won't come up.

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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by mikeyg123 »

davidheath461 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Vettel clearly stepped up a level towards the end of the season in years gone past. I fail to see how Vettel not being able to do that this year changes that.


2010 - he just stopped making silly mistakes and started doing what he should have been doing all season (i.e. winning from pole).

So he stepped up then?

2011 - no step up in performance after the summer break.

He was performing brilliantly anyway

2012 - The Newey upgrades at Singapore/Japan is clearly what brought him back into contention. 3 front row lockouts for Red Bull between Japan and India which was massive in a season like 2012.

He didn't even have the quickest car towards the end of 2012. He still managed to win 4 races in a row in the last 6 races. He won one the whole rest of the season. He clearly stepped up.

2013 - Tyre changes played into Red Bull's hands. He was also performing very well before the summer break.

He won every single race after the summer break. It's not like Webber was finishing second every race either. Again,
clear improvement.


I don't really see how it's clear that Vettel stepped up in previous years.

What would have needed to happen for it to be clear to you?

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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by davidheath461 »

mikeyg123 wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Vettel clearly stepped up a level towards the end of the season in years gone past. I fail to see how Vettel not being able to do that this year changes that.


2010 - he just stopped making silly mistakes and started doing what he should have been doing all season (i.e. winning from pole).

So he stepped up then?

2011 - no step up in performance after the summer break.

He was performing brilliantly anyway

2012 - The Newey upgrades at Singapore/Japan is clearly what brought him back into contention. 3 front row lockouts for Red Bull between Japan and India which was massive in a season like 2012.

He didn't even have the quickest car towards the end of 2012. He still managed to win 4 races in a row in the last 6 races. He won one the whole rest of the season. He clearly stepped up.

2013 - Tyre changes played into Red Bull's hands. He was also performing very well before the summer break.

He won every single race after the summer break. It's not like Webber was finishing second every race either. Again,
clear improvement.


I don't really see how it's clear that Vettel stepped up in previous years.

What would have needed to happen for it to be clear to you?


2010 - This is the only one you could argue. His performance level didn't really improve though in terms of outright speed. He just started doing what he should have been doing all season.

2011 - so no step up in performance? glad we agree.

2012 - Of those 4 races, he had a dominant car in 3 of them (Japan, Korea, India) while in Singapore Hamilton retired infront of him, and he choked in qualifying after dominating practice. You have to kidding on this one. It was clearly the Newey upgrades which propelled him to those wins.

Perhaps you should read this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/20118852

2013 - I guess we were watching different seasons. You seem to be judging Vettel's performance purely by his results. His driving performance was great before and after the summer break. What allowed to win every race after the summer break was the tyre change. Webber's managed to haul himself back up into 3rd place in the WDC following the summer break despite 3 DNFs. He finished on the podium in all the other races.

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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by davidheath461 »

Rockie wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
Rockie wrote:I'm sure if Vettel had an engine mode to go to that can save him in the race like the Merc drivers he would just have been fine.

Vettel delivered three of the best qualifying laps witnessed this this season.


Singapore, Mexico and ?

I agree that the 2 above were excellent qualifying laps. :thumbup:

However, it's not much good getting pole if you crash into someone else on the first lap.

As for Ricciardo when he gets to Vettels level he can talk, for now he should concentrate on being team leader at Redbull.


Ricciardo already proved he was on (or above) Vettel's level in 2014.


Austin


Well like I said one swallow does not make a summer right now Max has his number.


It was certainly more than one swallow. Vettel was firmly put in his place by Ricciardo over a 20 race season.

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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by davidheath461 »

Rockie wrote:
Warheart01 wrote:I'm actually glad this is brought up. Vettel has had this reputation of ''never crumbling under pressure'', while Hamilton has had the opposite reputation for some strange reason. Always have I felt that it should be the other way around and the 2017 F1 season proved I was right.


Yup just like '14 proved you right smh.

It's as if Vettel naysayers wait till he does wrong and then go you see I told you so.

What is most funny is Hamilton could not hold a candle to Vettel in the 1st half of the season,
and I reckon had Malaysia and Japan turbo and spark plug failure not happened this cracking under pressure nonsense won't come up.


I guess it's kind of ironic then that Hamilton was the one who "stepped up a gear" after the summer break. :)

The cracking under pressure is not without basis. It comes from incidents like Singapore and Mexico.
Last edited by davidheath461 on Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:33 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by mikeyg123 »

davidheath461 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Vettel clearly stepped up a level towards the end of the season in years gone past. I fail to see how Vettel not being able to do that this year changes that.


2010 - he just stopped making silly mistakes and started doing what he should have been doing all season (i.e. winning from pole).

So he stepped up then?

2011 - no step up in performance after the summer break.

He was performing brilliantly anyway

2012 - The Newey upgrades at Singapore/Japan is clearly what brought him back into contention. 3 front row lockouts for Red Bull between Japan and India which was massive in a season like 2012.

He didn't even have the quickest car towards the end of 2012. He still managed to win 4 races in a row in the last 6 races. He won one the whole rest of the season. He clearly stepped up.

2013 - Tyre changes played into Red Bull's hands. He was also performing very well before the summer break.

He won every single race after the summer break. It's not like Webber was finishing second every race either. Again,
clear improvement.


I don't really see how it's clear that Vettel stepped up in previous years.

What would have needed to happen for it to be clear to you?


2010 - This is the only one you could argue. His performance level didn't really improve though in terms of outright speed. He just started doing what he should have been doing all season.

2011 - so no step up in performance? glad we agree.

2012 - Of those 4 races, he had a dominant car in 3 of them (Japan, Korea, India) while in Singapore Hamilton retired infront of him, and he choked in qualifying after dominating practice. You have to kidding on this one. It was clearly the Newey upgrades which propelled him to those wins.

Perhaps you should read this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/20118852

2013 - I guess we were watching different seasons. You seem to be judging Vettel's performance purely by his results. His driving performance was great before and after the summer break. What allowed to win every race after the summer break was the tyre change. Webber's managed to haul himself back up into 3rd place in the WDC following the summer break despite 3 DNFs. He finished on the podium in all the other races.


In 2012 what makes you think it was Red Bull improving rather than Vettel? Could it have been Vettel? Could it perhaps not be a bit of both?

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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by davidheath461 »

mikeyg123 wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Vettel clearly stepped up a level towards the end of the season in years gone past. I fail to see how Vettel not being able to do that this year changes that.


2010 - he just stopped making silly mistakes and started doing what he should have been doing all season (i.e. winning from pole).

So he stepped up then?

2011 - no step up in performance after the summer break.

He was performing brilliantly anyway

2012 - The Newey upgrades at Singapore/Japan is clearly what brought him back into contention. 3 front row lockouts for Red Bull between Japan and India which was massive in a season like 2012.

He didn't even have the quickest car towards the end of 2012. He still managed to win 4 races in a row in the last 6 races. He won one the whole rest of the season. He clearly stepped up.

2013 - Tyre changes played into Red Bull's hands. He was also performing very well before the summer break.

He won every single race after the summer break. It's not like Webber was finishing second every race either. Again,
clear improvement.


I don't really see how it's clear that Vettel stepped up in previous years.

What would have needed to happen for it to be clear to you?


2010 - This is the only one you could argue. His performance level didn't really improve though in terms of outright speed. He just started doing what he should have been doing all season.

2011 - so no step up in performance? glad we agree.

2012 - Of those 4 races, he had a dominant car in 3 of them (Japan, Korea, India) while in Singapore Hamilton retired infront of him, and he choked in qualifying after dominating practice. You have to kidding on this one. It was clearly the Newey upgrades which propelled him to those wins.

Perhaps you should read this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/20118852

2013 - I guess we were watching different seasons. You seem to be judging Vettel's performance purely by his results. His driving performance was great before and after the summer break. What allowed to win every race after the summer break was the tyre change. Webber's managed to haul himself back up into 3rd place in the WDC following the summer break despite 3 DNFs. He finished on the podium in all the other races.


In 2012 what makes you think it was Red Bull improving rather than Vettel? Could it have been Vettel? Could it perhaps not be a bit of both?


Firstly, did you read the article i sent you? That has details on the major upgrades for the Asian leg that Red Bull used.

Following the introduction of these upgrades, Red Bull suddenly started locking out the front row having not done so all season. It doesn't take a genius to see that it was Newey who stepped up, rather than Vettel.

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Re: Vettel and pressure - according to Ric and Ham

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mikeyg123
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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by mikeyg123 »

davidheath461 wrote:Firstly, did you read the article i sent you? That has details on the major upgrades for the Asian leg that Red Bull used.

Following the introduction of these upgrades, Red Bull suddenly started locking out the front row having not done so all season. It doesn't take a genius to see that it was Newey who stepped up, rather than Vettel.


Why Can't it be both? Earlier in the season we saw Webber pretty much equalling Vettel.

funkymonkey
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Re: Vettel and pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by funkymonkey »

Frankly speaking, the end result wasn't affected by anything that was in Vettel's control. He lost few points in Baku for sure because of his stupidity but that was about it.
Singapore incident could have happened with anyone. He had to defend and it caused pileup.
Even if both those victories been with Vettel, even with 6 races to go, most people had recognised the limitations Ferrari's car has and the tracks coming up in last 6 races. Hamilton had dominant car which didnt work at couple of places. Rest all tracks it was either completely dominant or very close to the pace setters, not to mention they had the car that could easily lead from the front. Ferrari never really had it at enough tracks.
At most, we were expecting little more fight from Ferrari but that mechanical DNF just ended any fight that was left in the season. Hamilton never really was under serious pressure. He didnt make many mistakes this season. Must give that to him.

Frankly Ferrari shouldnt be disappointed. They made very significant gains. They need to keep pushing with the staff they have and seriously needs to stop chopping and changing management and leadership positions inside the team. They just need that extra performance from engine during quali and looks where their concept of short wheelbase went wrong this year.

Rest, there isnt significant thing to worry about be it drivers or technical side of their team.

Rockie
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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by Rockie »

davidheath461 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
Rockie wrote:I'm sure if Vettel had an engine mode to go to that can save him in the race like the Merc drivers he would just have been fine.

Vettel delivered three of the best qualifying laps witnessed this this season.


Singapore, Mexico and ?

I agree that the 2 above were excellent qualifying laps. :thumbup:

However, it's not much good getting pole if you crash into someone else on the first lap.

As for Ricciardo when he gets to Vettels level he can talk, for now he should concentrate on being team leader at Redbull.


Ricciardo already proved he was on (or above) Vettel's level in 2014.


Austin


Well like I said one swallow does not make a summer right now Max has his number.


It was certainly more than one swallow. Vettel was firmly put in his place by Ricciardo over a 20 race season.


By this I'm getting english is not your first language.

Rockie
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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by Rockie »

davidheath461 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Warheart01 wrote:I'm actually glad this is brought up. Vettel has had this reputation of ''never crumbling under pressure'', while Hamilton has had the opposite reputation for some strange reason. Always have I felt that it should be the other way around and the 2017 F1 season proved I was right.


Yup just like '14 proved you right smh.

It's as if Vettel naysayers wait till he does wrong and then go you see I told you so.

What is most funny is Hamilton could not hold a candle to Vettel in the 1st half of the season,
and I reckon had Malaysia and Japan turbo and spark plug failure not happened this cracking under pressure nonsense won't come up.


I guess it's kind of ironic then that Hamilton was the one who "stepped up a gear" after the summer break. :)

The cracking under pressure is not without basis. It comes from incidents like Singapore and Mexico.


Hamilton didn't step up after the break rather they could use the extra engine mode in the Mercedes so you end up with a race like Monza or Austin, also it's like saying Bottas stepped up after Hamilton won the title.

In Mexico he recovered back, as oppose to Hamilton.

davidheath461
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Re: Vettel cracked under pressure - according to Ric and Ham

Post by davidheath461 »

Rockie wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
Rockie wrote:I'm sure if Vettel had an engine mode to go to that can save him in the race like the Merc drivers he would just have been fine.

Vettel delivered three of the best qualifying laps witnessed this this season.


Singapore, Mexico and ?

I agree that the 2 above were excellent qualifying laps. :thumbup:

However, it's not much good getting pole if you crash into someone else on the first lap.

As for Ricciardo when he gets to Vettels level he can talk, for now he should concentrate on being team leader at Redbull.


Ricciardo already proved he was on (or above) Vettel's level in 2014.


Austin


Well like I said one swallow does not make a summer right now Max has his number.


It was certainly more than one swallow. Vettel was firmly put in his place by Ricciardo over a 20 race season.


By this I'm getting english is not your first language.


:?:

If you didn't get it - my point is that Ricciardo beating Vettel in 2014 certainly wasn't a one off or a fluke.

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