Massa retirement pt 2, The Real Deal
Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:59 pm
After 15 years in F1 and a very nearly championship in 2008 Felipe Massa has announced his retirement.
Again...Kev627 wrote:After 15 years in F1 and a very nearly championship in 2008 Felipe Massa has announced his retirement.
Rob Smedley, 2015:BMWSauber84 wrote:He has never really been quite the same driver since the 2009 accident. Coming back alongside Alonso really exposed that. It would have been tough even if Massa had been at his pre accident best.
"What we are seeing at the minute is definitely the best Felipe Massa that we have seen, definitely as good as 2008."
"I have worked with him for many years and I am still seeing him develop and it's good to see.
"That's a lad with 10 years-plus experience of driving Formula 1 cars, who is still able to develop and get better and better."
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/11850 ... -have-seen
I'd have to agree with this, I've never really been a fan either and always found him to be very overrated. To his credit though he was very gracious in defeat in 2008.Banana Man wrote:Never understood his popularity TBH. 14 full seasons and he has managed to beat his team mate twice. One was a sub-standard, can't be a*sed Villeneuve, the other a sub-standard, can't be a*sed Kimi. Obviously I've never met him but I don't think he comes across as particularly likable either. He just seems whiny and entitled most of the time.
It probably all comes from Brazil in 2008 where people said he was, "a champion for 30 seconds" etc. No he wasn't, he very nearly got very lucky but didn't. It it hadn't rained exactly when it did, Hamilton would probably have stayed ahead of Vettel and they would both have been ahead of Glock. If it hadn't been for Bourdais BS penalty the race before, 6th would have been enough anyway and I wont even go into Spa again.
I disagree. He always was a quick driver on his day but inconsistent and error-prone, throughout his whole career.BMWSauber84 wrote:He has never really been quite the same driver since the 2009 accident. Coming back alongside Alonso really exposed that. It would have been tough even if Massa had been at his pre accident best.
I give Massa a lot of credit for how he handled his defeat in 2008. That must have been beyond difficult. That and how he came back from his injury showed everyone how decent a person he is.j man wrote:I'd have to agree with this, I've never really been a fan either and always found him to be very overrated. To his credit though he was very gracious in defeat in 2008.Banana Man wrote:Never understood his popularity TBH. 14 full seasons and he has managed to beat his team mate twice. One was a sub-standard, can't be a*sed Villeneuve, the other a sub-standard, can't be a*sed Kimi. Obviously I've never met him but I don't think he comes across as particularly likable either. He just seems whiny and entitled most of the time.
It probably all comes from Brazil in 2008 where people said he was, "a champion for 30 seconds" etc. No he wasn't, he very nearly got very lucky but didn't. It it hadn't rained exactly when it did, Hamilton would probably have stayed ahead of Vettel and they would both have been ahead of Glock. If it hadn't been for Bourdais BS penalty the race before, 6th would have been enough anyway and I wont even go into Spa again.
He was consistently outperforming Raikkonen from Brazil 2007 to Hungary 2009 in fairness.Paolo_Lasardi wrote:I disagree. He always was a quick driver on his day but inconsistent and error-prone, throughout his whole career.BMWSauber84 wrote:He has never really been quite the same driver since the 2009 accident. Coming back alongside Alonso really exposed that. It would have been tough even if Massa had been at his pre accident best.
+++++Flash2k11 wrote:Just in time for Brazil, so hopefully this meant that Williams had the class to let him know that he wasn't in the running for next year before his final home race. He wont go down in history as one of the greats, but I can't think over many better poster children for hard work and perseverance as Massa in F1. He was always quick yet very error prone in the Sauber days, before honing his craft under Schumacher's wing at Ferrari. Came probably closer than any other driver ever to winning the WDC without actually doing so (a corner, or a 1 minute delay in that rain shower ._.) and also showed almighty courage and bravery to come back from an injury that would have caused men with lesser heart to toss in the towel.
I hope he gets the send off he deserves.
Flash2k11 wrote:Just in time for Brazil, so hopefully this meant that Williams had the class to let him know that he wasn't in the running for next year before his final home race. He wont go down in history as one of the greats, but I can't think over many better poster children for hard work and perseverance as Massa in F1. He was always quick yet very error prone in the Sauber days, before honing his craft under Schumacher's wing at Ferrari. Came probably closer than any other driver ever to winning the WDC without actually doing so (a corner, or a 1 minute delay in that rain shower ._.) and also showed almighty courage and bravery to come back from an injury that would have caused men with lesser heart to toss in the towel.
I hope he gets the send off he deserves.
Who actually rates Massa though? I don't think the consensus has had him in the top 10 drivers on the grid for any period other than 2007-2009.Herb Tarlik wrote:
All that said, I think he is one of the most radically overrated drivers in recent history.
He was also faster than Kimi through 2007 too (which people often forget/overlook) he just made a few more errors, had slightly worst luck and there were two wet races in 2 of the final 3 races before which Massa was only 7 points behind Raikkonen. We all know what Massa is like in the wet. Kimi out scored him by 7 points over those 2 wet races.BMWSauber84 wrote:He was consistently outperforming Raikkonen from Brazil 2007 to Hungary 2009 in fairness.Paolo_Lasardi wrote:I disagree. He always was a quick driver on his day but inconsistent and error-prone, throughout his whole career.BMWSauber84 wrote:He has never really been quite the same driver since the 2009 accident. Coming back alongside Alonso really exposed that. It would have been tough even if Massa had been at his pre accident best.
He was immediately fast when he came back. He was leading the WDC the next year after the first couple of races...BMWSauber84 wrote:He has never really been quite the same driver since the 2009 accident. Coming back alongside Alonso really exposed that. It would have been tough even if Massa had been at his pre accident best.
Only because of Alonso's troublesome Australian grand Prix. Massa was well behind on race pace under normal conditions.Siao7 wrote:He was immediately fast when he came back. He was leading the WDC the next year after the first couple of races...BMWSauber84 wrote:He has never really been quite the same driver since the 2009 accident. Coming back alongside Alonso really exposed that. It would have been tough even if Massa had been at his pre accident best.
True, but he was leading the practise times as well if I remember correctly and during the winter testingBMWSauber84 wrote:Only because of Alonso's troublesome Australian grand Prix. Massa was well behind on race pace under normal conditions.Siao7 wrote:He was immediately fast when he came back. He was leading the WDC the next year after the first couple of races...BMWSauber84 wrote:He has never really been quite the same driver since the 2009 accident. Coming back alongside Alonso really exposed that. It would have been tough even if Massa had been at his pre accident best.
Judging from some here in this thread, Massa gets some degree of rating. I dont know why, as the guy is just not quick. This isn't the thread to speak down on him though so I'm going to stop here.lamo wrote:Who actually rates Massa though? I don't think the consensus has had him in the top 10 drivers on the grid for any period other than 2007-2009.Herb Tarlik wrote:
All that said, I think he is one of the most radically overrated drivers in recent history.
He holds the all time record for most seasons lost to a team mate and it is going to take some beating. 12 seasons going to be 13 if he doesn't come back against Stroll, that is going to be very very hard to beat. Not sure if he holds it for consecutive seasons, he is about to post number 9 this season.
I'm not sure if its just a longevity respect thing, but he has that horrible combination of not being very quick and always finding someone else to blame. Makes him very difficult to like.Herb Tarlik wrote:Judging from some here in this thread, Massa gets some degree of rating. I dont know why, as the guy is just not quick. This isn't the thread to speak down on him though so I'm going to stop here.lamo wrote:Who actually rates Massa though? I don't think the consensus has had him in the top 10 drivers on the grid for any period other than 2007-2009.Herb Tarlik wrote:
All that said, I think he is one of the most radically overrated drivers in recent history.
He holds the all time record for most seasons lost to a team mate and it is going to take some beating. 12 seasons going to be 13 if he doesn't come back against Stroll, that is going to be very very hard to beat. Not sure if he holds it for consecutive seasons, he is about to post number 9 this season.
The best one I read was that the head injury did affect his driving but it went away when he joined WilliamsGingerFurball wrote:It's amazing how many excuses were made for him to explain a 4 year period where he barely scored a podium while his team-mate won 11 races and nearly won 2 titles.
I think that it's clear that he was a second driver in the team with zero chances for a victory. "Fernando is faster than you" was applied when necessary. Testing parts for Alonso was his duty.GingerFurball wrote:It's amazing how many excuses were made for him to explain a 4 year period where he barely scored a podium while his team-mate won 11 races and nearly won 2 titles.
Taking a grid penalty so that Alonso will start on the clean side or being overtaken in the pitlane didn't help either.Lt. Drebin wrote:I think that it's clear that he was a second driver in the team with zero chances for a victory. "Fernando is faster than you" was applied when necessary. Testing parts for Alonso was his duty.GingerFurball wrote:It's amazing how many excuses were made for him to explain a 4 year period where he barely scored a podium while his team-mate won 11 races and nearly won 2 titles.
Thank you for reminding us on the shameful part of Ferrari team against his reputation, tough, he stayed loyal.Siao7 wrote:Taking a grid penalty so that Alonso will start on the clean side or being overtaken in the pitlane didn't help either.Lt. Drebin wrote:I think that it's clear that he was a second driver in the team with zero chances for a victory. "Fernando is faster than you" was applied when necessary. Testing parts for Alonso was his duty.GingerFurball wrote:It's amazing how many excuses were made for him to explain a 4 year period where he barely scored a podium while his team-mate won 11 races and nearly won 2 titles.
Not trying to big up Massa's mediocre appearances, but it would surely play a part and I wouldn't call this period 100% representative.
Ditto!Lt. Drebin wrote:For me, F1 will not be the same again, I have cheered for him always.
Not sure if you are being sarcastic there Lt...Lt. Drebin wrote:Thank you for reminding us on the shameful part of Ferrari team against his reputation, tough, he stayed loyal.Siao7 wrote:Taking a grid penalty so that Alonso will start on the clean side or being overtaken in the pitlane didn't help either.Lt. Drebin wrote:I think that it's clear that he was a second driver in the team with zero chances for a victory. "Fernando is faster than you" was applied when necessary. Testing parts for Alonso was his duty.GingerFurball wrote:It's amazing how many excuses were made for him to explain a 4 year period where he barely scored a podium while his team-mate won 11 races and nearly won 2 titles.
Not trying to big up Massa's mediocre appearances, but it would surely play a part and I wouldn't call this period 100% representative.
What was Raikkonen's excuse for doing as badly against Alonso?F1 MERCENARY wrote:I don't denote any sarcasm in that. just plain truth. His time at Ferrari with Alonso as the #1 everything saw to it that Felipe role was to be that dog they kick whenever they saw fit, and boy did they ever kick him, even just for kicks at times it seemed.
I would much rather know the reasons than any excuses. My opinion is that he was in the same position that Massa was in before him; Ferrari believing the driver was more important than the car. Räikkönen showed us quite clearly in 2008 that the car and he were plenty fast enough. And in 2009, two replacement drivers showed us just how much of a handful Räikkönen and Massa had to handle. Which they did.GingerFurball wrote:What was Raikkonen's excuse for doing as badly against Alonso?F1 MERCENARY wrote:I don't denote any sarcasm in that. just plain truth. His time at Ferrari with Alonso as the #1 everything saw to it that Felipe role was to be that dog they kick whenever they saw fit, and boy did they ever kick him, even just for kicks at times it seemed.
I hate to break to you but it looks like that will be next yearFlavioPassos wrote:It is the right time for Massa to leave. But as a brazilian who enjoys F1 like many brazilians did for years and years I see Brazil is less and less interested about F1 each year. This is really sad news for me. If we keep going this way, soon we won't have any more drivers and even the race will be under threat. And I don't think it will be too long until this day.
He was Fernando's team mate for 5 years, at an age when both should really be at the peak of their careers. I'd say it was about as representative as you can get. If nothing else it represents that Felipe chose to stick around and collect Ferrari wages, even though he was quite clearly getting his backside whooped. If he wasn't happy with the team, why stay?Siao7 wrote:Taking a grid penalty so that Alonso will start on the clean side or being overtaken in the pitlane didn't help either.Lt. Drebin wrote:I think that it's clear that he was a second driver in the team with zero chances for a victory. "Fernando is faster than you" was applied when necessary. Testing parts for Alonso was his duty.GingerFurball wrote:It's amazing how many excuses were made for him to explain a 4 year period where he barely scored a podium while his team-mate won 11 races and nearly won 2 titles.
Not trying to big up Massa's mediocre appearances, but it would surely play a part and I wouldn't call this period 100% representative.