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pokerman wrote:Alonso forcing another car off the track also hitting it causing damage he's the first to complain about bad driving.

No investigation necessary - "we call it motor racing".


We can move on for now.

Vettel driving beyond stupid. Of course the FIA will protect him.

Seb is in quite a good position having done his pit stop. He could actually still win this.

Vettel crying like a baby on the radio. Pathetic.

Ennis wrote:

Aspar wrote:WTF is Vettel doing, he first squeezed Max out of the track then hit Hamilton. Needs a penalty, but they won't give him. Max also squeezed Hamilton too much, but Hamilton backed down enough to not cause a hit, then Vettel just hit him from the side. Max and Vettel have been so unprofessional in the last several races it's mind boggling.

I don't think you can squeeze too much on corner exit when you are ahead and have the racing line, so I don't blame Max for that one. It was actually lesser than the one Vettel did to him just prior to that.

I like Vettel but man... It's times like that that make me wonder if Webber's critique of his spacial awareness carries more than a little truth. This season has both elevated and sank Vettel in my opinion, strange one - has shown some outstanding moves I didn't think he was capable of, and performed some stupid moves I wish he wasn't capable of.

I agree, Max "squeezed" Hamilton and it was in the boundaries of normal racing, Hamilton was behind and he did what was right, back down and all was fine, Max ahead, Hamilton behind, but what Vettel did is for penalty, he pushed Max and caused contact with him on the previous corner and pushed Hamilton too while Hamilton was ahead of Vettel and cause another incident. If this doesn't desever a penalty then pushing cars with contact can become official strategy in F1 as long as it serves the needs (mainly make it interesting to the last race, which is a farse).

Why is it becoming more and more acceptable for drivers to completely shove others off the racing track? It's getting worse each year. Vettel should definitely not hand that back IMO.

Seb should have given the place back again

You got to hand that back surely

Brundle's really losing it. I know I say this every time I watch Sky's coverage but he says at least a couple of things that just make me think he's much less alert than he used to be. He's got Bottas driving for Williams today. Also, he said Vettel wouldn't have hit Hamilton deliberately because he wouldn't risk damaging his front wing. It was already damaged in the exact place where Seb's car touched Lewis'.

I personally think he would have the presence of mind to know that and to try it on if he were that way inclined.

Clearly the rules no longer apply to Vettel. Just hand him the win FFS.

Alienturnedhuman wrote:Vettel has to give that place back to Massa.

I think if you give someone no option to leave the track you can hardly complain if they overtake you off track.

Alienturnedhuman wrote:Vettel has to give that place back to Massa.

What? Massa drove him off the track. He even steered in Vettels direction (perhaps he tried not to oversteer?).

To be fair, Vettel had the inside line, he should have been left space...

I dare say whining about someone else's driving when you ran into the back of someone feels a tad hypocritical.

Schumacher forever#1 wrote:Why is it becoming more and more acceptable for drivers to completely shove others off the racing track? It's getting worse each year. Vettel should definitely not hand that back IMO.

They shouldn't have a track limit on the outside of a corner.

mikeyg123 wrote:

Alienturnedhuman wrote:Vettel has to give that place back to Massa.

I think if you give someone no option to leave the track you can hardly complain if they overtake you off track.

No, you hit the brakes and try again. JHC do people think that Vettel is just entitled to everything?

Schumacher forever#1 wrote:Why is it becoming more and more acceptable for drivers to completely shove others off the racing track? It's getting worse each year. Vettel should definitely not hand that back IMO.

Massa hasn't shoved him off at all, where else is he meant to go? The onus is on the guy on the outside trying to brave it out to keep it together, he went off the track to pass Massa, should give the place back.

Looks like Vettel's head has gone either way, he absolutely had to stay out of trouble today and ended up having 2 bumps in the first 2 corners. That little diatribe over the radio shows where he is at.

Is there a problem with Hamilton's car? He is not gaining any places. I call this circus, and they wonder less and less people watch F1.
What, next race, Hamilton just rams Vettel, take them both out of the race and voila - no problems, valid strategy from what we see so far. Push cars, hit them and it's fine.

MasterRacer wrote:Seb is in quite a good position having done his pit stop. He could actually still win this.

50 seconds off the led and dropping 1.5 seconds per lap

I don't think Vettel should be asked to hand the position back or be given a 5-second penalty.

Flash2k11 wrote:

Schumacher forever#1 wrote:Why is it becoming more and more acceptable for drivers to completely shove others off the racing track? It's getting worse each year. Vettel should definitely not hand that back IMO.

Massa hasn't shoved him off at all, where else is he meant to go?

He did. From his onboard it even looked deliberate.

Aspar wrote:Is there a problem with Hamilton's car? He is not gaining any places. I call this circus, and they wonder less and less people watch F1.
What, next race, Hamilton just rams Vettel, take them both out of the race and voila - no problems, valid strategy from what we see so far. Push cars, hit them and it's fine.

He has cruised up to Sainz at a rate of knots despite attempting to one stop those tyres, he was miles behind after that first lap, he is doing just fine.

Flash2k11 wrote:

Schumacher forever#1 wrote:Why is it becoming more and more acceptable for drivers to completely shove others off the racing track? It's getting worse each year. Vettel should definitely not hand that back IMO.

Massa hasn't shoved him off at all, where else is he meant to go? The onus is on the guy on the outside trying to brave it out to keep it together, he went off the track to pass Massa, should give the place back.

Looks like Vettel's head has gone either way, he absolutely had to stay out of trouble today and ended up having 2 bumps in the first 2 corners. That little diatribe over the radio shows where he is at.

What? Vettel could very easily have kept it on the track but Massa would have smashed into the side of him.

I was expecting Hamilton to catch and overtake some of the monkeys at the back by now. Is his car crippled from the lap one incident?

Flash2k11 wrote:

Aspar wrote:Is there a problem with Hamilton's car? He is not gaining any places. I call this circus, and they wonder less and less people watch F1.
What, next race, Hamilton just rams Vettel, take them both out of the race and voila - no problems, valid strategy from what we see so far. Push cars, hit them and it's fine.

He has cruised up to Sainz at a rate of knots despite attempting to one stop those tyres, he was miles behind after that first lap, he is doing just fine.

Thanks for the info, can't get live timing to work atm for some reason and have no idea what the timings are, bar what the TV shows. Now I just saw he is just behind him.

Flash2k11 wrote:

Schumacher forever#1 wrote:Why is it becoming more and more acceptable for drivers to completely shove others off the racing track? It's getting worse each year. Vettel should definitely not hand that back IMO.

Massa hasn't shoved him off at all, where else is he meant to go? The onus is on the guy on the outside trying to brave it out to keep it together, he went off the track to pass Massa, should give the place back.

Looks like Vettel's head has gone either way, he absolutely had to stay out of trouble today and ended up having 2 bumps in the first 2 corners. That little diatribe over the radio shows where he is at.

Mass took the corner with way more speed than the car was capable of. Oversteering wildly in the corner clearly indicates this. He was out of control and shoved Vettel, who was clearly alongside and ahead going into the corner.

What a Shame...
A WDC race Now ruined by a guy(Verstappen) who thinks he is still playing videogames.
This was the same stuff Verstappen did to Vettel in Canada.

Vettel had lost downforce after the contact today so he could not brake properly to avoid Hamilton.

What a shame. Good job.

Dodgy driving in modern F1 is akin to diving in football.

The authorities didn't stamp it out early, let it slide long enough that it's common practice now so much so that those not doing it often have their 'desire to win' called into question.

Not necessarily the case today and I'm definitely not anti-safety, but all those drivable run-offs have just made this worse. Drivers stretch and bend the rules because the track usually won't punish a mistake anymore, and the stewarding is inconsistent enough that the risk is usually lower than the potential reward of pulling one off.

Eternal question to FIA: Why can't we have a permanent panel of stewards?

This is poor from the merc/ham :/ not sure if there's damage...

Shame about the first lap. I really think it was dicey but Vettel is the guy who made the contact happen there. Lets see how the race goes from here.

lewis Lapped.... but looks like he'll win the title anyway today

Pullrod wrote:What a Shame...
A WDC race Now ruined by a guy(Verstappen) who thinks he is still playing videogames.
This was the same stuff Verstappen did to Vettel in Canada.

Vettel had lost downforce after the contact today so he could not brake properly to avoid Hamilton.

What a shame. Good job.

That is a somewhat queer view of this incident, although I agree he touched Hamilton because of lost downforce. But the contact was up to Vettel to avoid. Racing incident from my pov

Pullrod wrote:What a Shame...
A WDC race Now ruined by a guy(Verstappen) who thinks he is still playing videogames.
This was the same stuff Verstappen did to Vettel in Canada.

Vettel had lost downforce after the contact today so he could not brake properly to avoid Hamilton.

What a shame. Good job.

Are we watching the same race? Vettel pushed Verstappen off track on the exit of turn 1

Hamiltons car must be damaged.

lamo wrote:

Pullrod wrote:What a Shame...
A WDC race Now ruined by a guy(Verstappen) who thinks he is still playing videogames.
This was the same stuff Verstappen did to Vettel in Canada.

Vettel had lost downforce after the contact today so he could not brake properly to avoid Hamilton.

What a shame. Good job.

Are we watching the same race? Vettel pushed Verstappen off track on the exit of turn 1

The rules dont apply to Vettel it seems.

The Renault is quick, but Sainz can't pass Wehrlein...

lamo wrote:

Pullrod wrote:What a Shame...
A WDC race Now ruined by a guy(Verstappen) who thinks he is still playing videogames.
This was the same stuff Verstappen did to Vettel in Canada.

Vettel had lost downforce after the contact today so he could not brake properly to avoid Hamilton.

What a shame. Good job.

Are we watching the same race? Vettel pushed Verstappen off track on the exit of turn 1

Verstappen clipped Vettel front wing same as in Canada.
He should show more respect and be more sensible. Crazy stuff.